Gerry Adams finally retires

Spanish Eyes

I am very impressed with Eoin O'Broin. Such a pity he is SF but there we are.

He has no baggage, is very intelligent and articulate.

He won't go far amongst the anointed so.

You know the old adage, do not promote anyone who is better than you.

Skylinehead

greencap wrote: »

For what he had to endure from Londons colonial aspirations and their orange sectarian experiment.

How many lives did Londons bigoted little game of quest screw up.

Its not like they didn't have previous examples to reflect on.

So is every Catholic in NI from the 60s and 70s getting that pension? What a ridiculous point.

Spanish Eyes

Berserker wrote: »

He is a clever fellow but he isn't top tier SF material yet. Not bitter enough.

Yes O'Broin is better than any of them. So will languish.

oceanman

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I think that’s been shown to be untrue - but even if it was nothing justifies the horrible things the IRA have done

surely you mean the horrible things done by those on both side of the conflict?

Berserker

corner of hells wrote: »

Isn't it a wonder Gerry never sued anyone at all for saying he was in the IRA .

Can't afford it, apparently but he can afford to spend ten of thousands of euro on private health care in the USA.

Hitman3000

Joeytheparrot wrote:

MPs pension? The irony.... if he gets that....

My taxes don't contribute to an MPs pension, so irrelevant tbh.

greencap

Skylinehead wrote: »

So is every Catholic in NI from the 60s and 70s getting that pension? What a ridiculous point.

Isn't this essentially just 'whataboutery'?

Gerry deserves to be compensated for what the British state put him through.

''Every other Catholic'' is a separate question.

Although yes, in a perfect world, I'd imagine that a great number of Catholics in NI during the 60's - mid 90's are rightfully deserving of compensation.


A strange child like logic you used there. Something along the lines of everyone gets one or no-one does.

Ferm001

A lot of people when they retire give their spare time for free, just wondering will Gerry become a volunteer.

Very smart move by SF. The old guard will do the commemorations, orations etc. Allowing those with no link to the past to front the party.

Skylinehead

greencap wrote: »

Isn't this essentially just 'whataboutery'?

Gerry deserves to be compensated for what the British state put him through.

''Every other Catholic'' is a separate question.

Although yes, in a perfect world, I'd imagine that a great number of Catholics in NI during the 60's - mid 90's are rightfully deserving of compensation.


A strange child like logic you used there. Something along the lines of everyone gets one or no-one does.

Well, if he deserves it, anyone else who was persecuted deserves it too. Like my grandfather who was interned, but he wasn't an MP (that didn't do his job..) so he doesn't get it, by default. Maybe Gerry does deserve compensation, but an MPs pension is a very strange way of getting that.

greencap

Skylinehead wrote: »

Well, if he deserves it, anyone else who was persecuted deserves it too. Like my grandfather who was interned, but he wasn't an MP (that didn't do his job..) so he doesn't get it, by default. Maybe Gerry does deserve compensation, but an MPs pension is a very strange way of getting that.

Thats not how the world works.

An individual is either deserving of something or he/she isn't.

The fact that someone else didn't get it too doesn't change that.

My pay didn't go through this week. So why should you have yours.
Answer me that.

Skylinehead

greencap wrote: »

Thats not how the world works.

An individual is either deserving of something or he/she isn't.

The fact that someone else didn't get it too doesn't change that.

My pay didn't go through this week. So why should you have yours.
Answer me that.

A pension is not compensation for persecution. It is a pension. So your salary thing kinda falls flat there.

greencap

greencap wrote: »

Hope he enjoys his retirement.

He did well to make it to a ripe age considering times he lived through, the 80's was a less media focused era with less international concern for lawless governments.
British forces had itchy trigger fingers, and were a good deal bolder on the world stage.

If he's alive its not the result of the British govts fear of international condemnation, but because he had luck and brains and wasn't an easy target for Londons various machinations.

They werent going to touch him. He took the IRA generally in the direction that the UK government needed.

The war couldnt go on forever.

AudreyHepburn

oceanman wrote: »

surely you mean the horrible things done by those on both side of the conflict?

Yes of course - but this thread focuses on Gerry Adams and the IRA so it was primarily them I was speaking about.

greencap

Skylinehead wrote: »

A pension is not compensation for persecution. It is a pension. So your salary thing kinda falls flat there.

No. It really doesn't.

Compensation is a payment made without any production being required of you.

Gerry wasn't very productive in his role as a member of the British parliament, having not once taken his seat in westminster.

A pension for doing nothing, in lieu of an officially granted compensation could be seen as a form of justice, in the case where the British state caused Adams harm.

In my opinion, Britain did just that.

Now tell me about how your grandfathers internment means Adams actually isn't owed anything.

And while you're at it, get your neighbor to moderate on boards too.
After all you moderate on boards so he should too.

Berserker

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

They werent going to touch him.

Kept him alive, truth be told.

greencap

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

They werent going to touch him. He took the IRA generally in the direction that the UK government needed.

The war couldnt go on forever.

And the inverse.

Taking the UK govt in the direction nationalism needed.

Less Bombay street, more power sharing.

Seems like he made himself indispensable all round.

Not an easy task.

smurgen

Fair play to the man and hope him the best in retirement. The north would have been a far more chaotic place without him.

Dyr

The likes of O'Broin are the rock SF would perish on, he is a private school champagne socialist who belongs in the Labour Party but they're a beaten docket now so he's a Shinner


Himself and Lynn Boylans crusade to release the Muslim Brotherhood 1 has gone down like a lead baloon with SF voters. It's no coincidence SF have dipped in the polls while both of them were banging that drum. The Irish electorate dont care much for smug liberals

McDonald is a better politician but shes spent so many years in opposition attack mode that she will be seen as very negative.

Toibin (never going to happen) or Doherty would be good choices.

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I am very impressed with Eoin O'Broin. Such a pity he is SF but there we are.

He has no baggage, is very intelligent and articulate.

He won't go far amongst the anointed so.

You know the old adage, do not promote anyone who is better than you.

pablo128

History will remember Gerry Adams fondly.

FrancieBrady

pablo128 wrote: »

History will remember Gerry Adams fondly.

The litmus test for a politician is: has he/she left behind a better place? If I look north the answer has to be an emphatic yes, it is unrecognisable to the place I grew up with.

McMurphy

Skylinehead wrote: »

Well, if he deserves it, anyone else who was persecuted deserves it too. Like my grandfather who was interned, but he wasn't an MP (that didn't do his job..) so he doesn't get it, by default. Maybe Gerry does deserve compensation, but an MPs pension is a very strange way of getting that.

I think the point being made is Adams was elected to MP status, and worked relentlessly as a politician in his political role.

If your grandad put himself up for election, was voted in, and subsequently was the focus of relentless surveillance from the UK govt, Irish gov't, US (and who knows who else) and had his attempts on his life - for 30 plus years, then he'd be well deserving of a pension too.

Btw, fwiw I rated McGuinness head and shoulders over Adams, not only in charisma, but strategically too.

Regardless. Adams has came out the other side of his career a winner all things considered.

I wish him a long and happy retirement.

Fake News

A leading figure in his own right. He will enter the history books along with Parnell and Dev such was his stature.

Skylinehead

Rick Shaw wrote: »

I think the point being made is Adams was elected to MP status, and worked relentlessly as a politician in his political role.

If your grandad put himself up for election, was voted in, and subsequently was the focus of relentless surveillance from the UK govt, Irish gov't, US (and who knows who else) for 30 plus years, then he'd be well deserving of a pension too.

Btw, fwiw I rated McGuinness head and shoulders over Adams, not only in charisma, but strategically too.

Regardless. Adams has came out the other side of his career a winner all things considered.

I wish him a long and happy retirement.

Y'see, this is my point. You deserve a pension for doing your job. You deserve compensation for wrongs against you. They are separate things. Trying to link them at all is a bit odd.

MadYaker

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The litmus test for a politician is: has he/she left behind a better place? If I look north the answer has to be an emphatic yes, it is unrecognisable to the place I grew up with.

The means don't always justify the ends

McMurphy

Skylinehead wrote: »

Y'see, this is my point. You deserve a pension for doing your job. You deserve compensation for wrongs against you. They are separate things. Trying to link them at all is a bit odd.

Are you seriously suggesting Adams didn't do his job?

Look at Sinn Fein' s electoral gains in D.E , So far as I can tell, by my research, no party has seen anywhere near the consistent gains that the shinners have seen under Adams leadership.

FrancieBrady

MadYaker wrote: »

The means don't always justify the ends

A cliché that means nothing in reality when you drill down into it.
Conflict/war happens and will happen again and again in the world.
I celebrate those who can build a new world out of them.
That is why I am not a hypocrite when I celebrate the birth of our nation and those who built a fair and almost equal society in the north, against overwhelming odds it must be said.

Spanish Eyes

We are talking about SF down here, South, the 26 whatever you lot up there call it.

SF will never make it down here, we have too much intelligence for that.

Spots here and there, but guess where? Will never be the middle class areas ever. That is the target for SF, but there is too much baggage for them.

And Gerry will be pulling the strings as long as he is cognitive. That is my belief. Refute it as you wish.

FrancieBrady

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

We are talking about SF down here, South, the 26 whatever you lot up there call it.

SF will never make it down here, we have too much intelligence for that.

Spots here and there, but guess where? Will never be the middle class areas ever. That is the target for SF, but there is too much baggage for them.

And Gerry will be pulling the strings as long as he is cognitive. That is my belief. Refute it as you wish.

why would anyone bother to 'refute' something you believe that hasn't happened yet?

Crazy.

snowflaker

end of the road

MadYaker wrote: »

The means don't always justify the ends

sadly, the northern ireland problem was not going to be solved via peaceful means. britain made sure of it.

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

We are talking about SF down here, South, the 26 whatever you lot up there call it.

SF will never make it down here, we have too much intelligence for that.

Spots here and there, but guess where? Will never be the middle class areas ever. That is the target for SF, but there is too much baggage for them.

And Gerry will be pulling the strings as long as he is cognitive. That is my belief. Refute it as you wish.

no doubt instead of sf they will continue to vote for ff/fg and whine about them when they get what they vote for.

McMurphy

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

We are talking about SF down here, South, the 26 whatever you lot up there call it.

SF will never make it down here, we have too much intelligence for that.

Spots here and there, but guess where? Will never be the middle class areas ever. That is the target for SF, but there is too much baggage for them.

And Gerry will be pulling the strings as long as he is cognitive. That is my belief. Refute it as you wish.

We (down here) have a long and traditional history of voting one of two different (in all but name) partys into govt.

Separated by the civil war for decades, yet little more than the width of a fag paper separates their policies.

One of those party's has bankrupted the country more than once, while the other (when in opposition) screamed at the them, that they weren't spending enough or giving enough away on tax breaks etc etc.

Currently we are witnessing a government that has one supporting the other, and without either governance would cease.

Prob, all things considered - we are looking at ff retaking the baton when FG get returned to the default position of opposition.

They say insanity is repeating the same mistakes yet expecting a different outcome.

I'll let you keep the intelligence assumption.

greencap

Skylinehead wrote: »

Y'see, this is my point. You deserve a pension for doing your job. You deserve compensation for wrongs against you. They are separate things. Trying to link them at all is a bit odd.

Its really not that difficult if you familiarize yourself with a bit of basic book keeping and the theory of a 'no show job'.

I suppose if you took it to its technical extreme Gerrys probably owed compensation as well as the mp's pension.

Although I wouldn't expect the GB courts to reach such a conclusion.

Doing so might make Thatcher, for example, look like... a complete fking moron.

gozunda

Fake News wrote: »

A leading figure in his own right. He will enter the history books along with Parnell and Dev such was his stature.

Fake News alright. You could possibly get away with the first sentence without qualification. And he most definitely will get into the history books -but quite possibly not for the 'right' reasons though. As for comparisons with Dev well there Dev screwed his country and nearly brought it down to its knees with an utterly divisive civil war. However I doubt if Parnell would have anything to do with either of them tbh ...

Skylinehead

Rick Shaw wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting Adams didn't do his job?

Well, that's another argument. For those that voted him in and expected him to abstain, he did. For those that didn't, and that he's still expected to represent....no.

Fake News

Rick Shaw wrote: »

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

We are talking about SF down here, South, the 26 whatever you lot up there call it.

SF will never make it down here, we have too much intelligence for that.

Spots here and there, but guess where?  Will never be the middle class areas ever. That is the target for SF, but there is too much baggage for them.

And Gerry will be pulling the strings as long as he is cognitive. That is my belief. Refute it as you wish.

We (down here) have a long and traditional history of voting one of two different (in all but name) partys into govt.  

Separated by the civil war for decades, yet little more than the width of a fag paper separates their policies.  

One of those party's has bankrupted the country more than  once, while the other (when in opposition) screamed at the them,  that they weren't spending enough or giving enough away on tax breaks etc etc.

Currently we are witnessing a government that has one supporting the other, and without either governance would cease.

Prob, all things considered  - we are looking at ff retaking the baton when FG get returned to the default position of opposition.

They say insanity is repeating the same mistakes yet expecting a different outcome.

I'll let you keep the intelligence assumption.

I think that's a very pessimistic outlook to have. Ireland's political landscape has change dramatically and I see no appetite in the young voting for FF or FG. Sinn Fein continue to grow at their expence and the future remains very uncertain with the massive changes in leadership. I wouldn't rule out Sinn Fein as largest party in the opposition come next election.

Fake News

Fake News wrote: »

I think that's a very pessimistic outlook to have. Ireland's political landscape has change dramatically and I see no appetite in the young voting for FF or FG. Sinn Fein continue to grow at their expence and the future remains very uncertain with the massive changes in leadership. I wouldn't rule out Sinn Fein as largest party in the opposition come next election.

The joy of seeking the young vote is that they dont remember SF shooting anyone that crossed them in the past. :pac:

bucketybuck

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The litmus test for a politician is: has he/she left behind a better place? If I look north the answer has to be an emphatic yes, it is unrecognisable to the place I grew up with.

Exactly. And the opinions of a bunch of Internet warriors who never lived through those times won't change that fact one little bit.

McMurphy

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

The joy of seeking the young vote is that they dont remember SF shooting anyone that crossed them in the past. :pac:

I can see you're not familiar with the history of any of our other big party's so?

FG, FF, LAB. Each and everyone of them had a beginning where their members have shot and maimed Irish citizens who crossed their path.

This is especially true when it comes to FG. They preach on about the IRA this and the IRA that while Enda stands with the British Premier for photos with Michael Collins portrait proudly hanging on the Taoiseachs office wall, or the justice minister lays wreaths at his grave.

During the peace talks, we had an Irish govt urging all sides in the north to move forward and leave the past behind.

Something they themselves seem unwilling to do.

baylah17

Fake News wrote: »

I think that's a very pessimistic outlook to have. Ireland's political landscape has change dramatically and I see no appetite in the young voting for FF or FG. Sinn Fein continue to grow at their expence and the future remains very uncertain with the massive changes in leadership. I wouldn't rule out Sinn Fein as largest party in the opposition come next election.

Perhaps but all the polling evidence shows that SF has been stagnant in the polls since the last election despite an improved number of TD's.

The_Kew_Tour

it be great for Terrorist SF to be gone from Irish Politics instead

Zerbini Blewitt

Rick Shaw wrote: »

I can see you're not familiar with the history of any of our other big party's so?

FG, FF, LAB. Each and everyone of them had a beginning where their members have shot and maimed Irish citizens who crossed their path.

This is especially true when it comes to FG....

Your point only works if one ignores the effects of the passage of 50-70 years of time on human affairs and deliberately fail to judge past events in the times & circumstances they happened in.

In the intervening period (from 1920 to 1970’s) there was an apocalyptic war between all of the biggest military powers on the globe – a lesson for mankind that has so far prevented a subsequent direct war between any of the 10 biggest militaries.

There was a holocaust of 6 million Jews and 10’s of millions of civilians in Europe & Asia – another lesson for the wold in the ‘wisdom’ of slaughtering ones fellow human beings if you have a disagreement with them

Then there was the Universal declaration of human rights in 1948 and rapid development of ideas around human dignity from groups like Amnesty International etc

Basically mankind progressed enormously in anthropological terms in that 70 years.

But of course in your view of the provos (& loyalist have the same view about the UVF) - that passage of time changed nothing. NI had no use for the lessons the world learned between 1920 & 1970. Those lessons didn’t apply to NI and had to be ignored because FF, FG & Lab did the same thing 70 years previously.

Is that your point?

FrancieBrady

Zerbini Blewitt wrote: »

Your point only works if one ignores the effects of the passage of 50-70 years of time on human affairs and deliberately fail to judge past events in the times & circumstances they happened in.

In the intervening period (from 1920 to 1970’s) there was an apocalyptic war between all of the biggest military powers on the globe – a lesson for mankind that has so far prevented a subsequent direct war between any of the 10 biggest militaries.

There was a holocaust of 6 million Jews and 10’s of millions of civilians in Europe & Asia – another lesson for the wold in the ‘wisdom’ of slaughtering ones fellow human beings if you have a disagreement with them

Then there was the Universal declaration of human rights in 1948 and rapid development of ideas around human dignity from groups like Amnesty International etc

Basically mankind progressed enormously in anthropological terms in that 70 years.

But of course in your view of the provos (& loyalist have the same view about the UVF) - that passage of time changed nothing. NI had no use for the lessons the world learned between 1920 & 1970. Those lessons didn’t apply to NI and had to be ignored because FF, FG & Lab did the same thing 70 years previously.

Is that your point?

Are you saying that northern Ireland was the only place that had a conflict/war in those 70 years?

Your point while not containing any mistruths fails to address the fact that conflict/war does occur.

maccored

mynamejeff wrote: »

and this post ladies and gentlemen is the apex of shinner botism right there .

adoration of a criminal who helped destroy many many innocent lives

well done enjoy the average industrial wage and all that will bring

for some reason I get the impression you dont like adams or SF. I dont know how I get that impression ....

maccored

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

it be great for Terrorist SF to be gone from Irish Politics instead

considering such a party never existed, you should be happy

maccored

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

The joy of seeking the young vote is that they dont remember SF shooting anyone that crossed them in the past. :pac:

SF shooting people? When did a elected SF official run out and shoot anyone?

joe swanson

A man full of hypocrisy. A man pushing for the truth on monaghan/Dublin whilst ignoring the truth about his own past. A dictator of his party for 32 years while keeping quiet about a sex abuse scandal and bullying with in his party.

Full of populist tripe whilst not wanting to take a lead. Look at the shinners take on homelessness- giving out like goodo here whilst presiding over a debacle in the north.

His shinnerbot army will be directed to flood social media and the likes pushing that he was a Nelson Mandela like figure which couldn't be further from the truth.

I hope he is haunted by the innocent victims of so called republicans for the rest of his life. I am a republican and there are a lot of decent republicans in this country. Gerry or his cabal of murderous pals do not represent me and I would hope any decent person with any sort of conscience can see through the shinner lies

maccored

joe swanson wrote: »

A man full of hypocrisy. A man pushing for the truth on monaghan/Dublin whilst ignoring the truth about his own past. A dictator of his party for 32 years while keeping quiet about a sex abuse scandal and bullying with in his party.

Full of populist tripe whilst not wanting to take a lead. Look at the shinners take on homelessness- giving out like goodo here whilst presiding over a debacle in the north.

His shinnerbot army will be directed to flood social media and the likes pushing that he was a Nelson Mandela like figure which couldn't be further from the truth.

I hope he is haunted by the innocent victims of so called republicans for the rest of his life. I am a republican and there are a lot of decent republicans in this country. Gerry or his cabal of murderous pals do not represent me and I would hope any decent person with any sort of conscience can see through the shinner lies

dictators get voted in every year in an ard fheis, yeah? Its easy to know the posts to ignore - they're the ones that dont seem to have a clue as to how SF operate

joe swanson

maccored wrote: »

dictators get voted in every year in an ard fheis, yeah? Its easy to know the posts to ignore - they're the ones that dont seem to have a clue as to how SF operate

I think we all know how they operate. Good man cherry picking out of that post.

tomwaterford

maccored wrote: »

dictators get voted in every year in an ard fheis, yeah? Its easy to know the posts to ignore - they're the ones that dont seem to have a clue as to how SF operate

Do all political parties not require leadership to be ratified at Ard fheis every year?

maccored

joe swanson wrote: »

I think we all know how they operate. Good man cherry picking out of that post.

you obliviously dont if you think they have a 'shinnerbot army' and that the presidency of SF is a dictatorship. plus you dont seem to have any understanding of the SF stance in the north about homelessness. Not too sure whats left to cherry pick out of that