Gerry Adams finally retires

maccored

listermint wrote: »

Seems like many on here is would have preferred the troubles to continue on..

Rather than I don't know setting history and putting issues aside to bring about a peace the place hasn't known for decades.


Shame people are so short sighted.

i think they're slightly disgruntled now Adams has said he's retiring as they wont have anyone to complain about

maccored

Fake News wrote: »

The bar mustn't be set too high if these two are contenders for leadership.

God save us.

is your eyesight OK? Theres more than two people in that photo

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

All you have to do is listen to the likes of Hughes, the Dolores Sisters on Adams to get the real picture of his character and not the myth within "mainstream" Republicanism.

Two disaffected former members are trustworthy sources in Adams?
There is no myth about Adams, he is human like us all.
He made mistakes and is quite candid about them.

Disaffected is another way to try and make those views from people very close to him to be null and void. It's the opposite, you get the true picture. Of course he is human but I don't buy into the argument that he made mistakes, we aren't talking about accidentally overcooking a steak or picking up the wrong pot noodle flavour.

I think it would be a bit insulting to say he made mistakes, he was a smart enough guy to know what he was doing, I disagree with his strategy fundamentally and his character, that's it. Nothing he ever did in his life was a mistake, I think that's naive.

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

Disaffected is another way to try and make those views from people very close to him to be null and void. It's the opposite, you get the true picture. Of course he is human but I don't buy into the argument that he made mistakes, we aren't talking about accidentally overcooking a steak or picking up the wrong pot noodle flavour.

I think it would be a bit insulting to say he made mistakes, he was a smart enough guy to know what he was doing, I disagree with his strategy fundamentally and his character, that's it. Nothing he ever did in his life was a mistake, I think that's naive.

If he didn't make mistakes is it not you that is making him a god like mythical figure?

Regarding your two favorite commentators, do you accept the Jean NcConville was an informer or are you just selecting the stuff you want to hear?

tomwaterford

A Little Pony wrote: »

I disagree with his strategy fundamentally and his character, that's it. Nothing he ever did in his life was a mistake, I think that's naive.

The man is practically the architect of the peace process and the gfa

Given its a 1 way (admittedly slow) road to a united Ireland. ...of course you disagree with his strategy,?

But it is however preferable to the troubles continuing on indefinitely....Wed surly be at 5000+ victims by now if it had and another 2 generations wasted through violent stalemate

A Little Pony

tomwaterford wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

I disagree with his strategy fundamentally and his character, that's it. Nothing he ever did in his life was a mistake, I think that's naive.

The man is practically the architect of the peace process and the gfa

Given its a 1 way (admittedly slow) road to a united Ireland. ...of course you disagree with his strategy,?

But it is however preferable to the troubles continuing on indefinitely....Wed surly be at 5000+ victims by now if it had and another 2 generations wasted through violent stalemate

I meant his strategy in the IRA. Gerry Adams didn't invent Irish Republicanism, it's been around for a long time. Also it's a myth to say he is the sole architect of the GFA, very insulting to the large amount of people who worked on that, a collective effort from all sides.

It was actually pointless for the IRA to carry on murdering people when they had an electorate who could be persuaded to vote Sinn Fein in future elections, it made the murdering pointless, so it was only common sense to end the killing.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Adams has addressed the issues surrounding Liam Adams ad nauseum and has admitted his mistakes in handling a family problem.

If he perjured himself he should have been prosecuted, he wasn't.

As I said, just because you don't like the answers, doesn't mean he hasn't addressed the issues.

You cannot prosecute him in that case, the obvious defence is that the prosecution can't prove whether he lied to the court or to the television. Gerry wouldn't even have to testify as the court would throw out the case as there is no independent way of verifying which of Gerry's multiple versions of the story is the truth.

We know he is a liar, we don't know if he also perjured himself.

blanch152

tomwaterford wrote: »

The man is practically the architect of the peace process and the gfa

Given its a 1 way (admittedly slow) road to a united Ireland. ...of course you disagree with his strategy,?

But it is however preferable to the troubles continuing on indefinitely....Wed surly be at 5000+ victims by now if it had and another 2 generations wasted through violent stalemate

Praising Gerry Adams for stopping organising a terrrorist criminal gang is like praising a mass murderer for stopping. I just can't go there.

Now before you jump on me, that is a legitimate view of Gerry Adams, held by a lot of people.

TheRiverman

maccored wrote: »

is your eyesight OK? Theres more than two people in that photo

I think the two are obvious.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

You cannot prosecute him in that case, the obvious defence is that the prosecution can't prove whether he lied to the court or to the television. Gerry wouldn't even have to testify as the court would throw out the case as there is no independent way of verifying which of Gerry's multiple versions of the story is the truth.

We know he is a liar, we don't know if he also perjured himself.

So he didn't perjure himself, that we know of. He has already admitted he did the wrong thing in the case of his brother. We know this too. We also know he gave evidence at his trial.
Yet the claim is he has ignored all this.

As said, that is just lies. Every single issue involving him has been addressed over and over again to the point of tedium.

corner of hells

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

All you have to do is listen to the likes of Hughes, the Dolores Sisters on Adams to get the real picture of his character and not the myth within "mainstream" Republicanism.

Two disaffected former members are trustworthy sources in Adams?
There is no myth about Adams, he is human like us all.
He made mistakes and is quite candid about them.

Sean O Callaghan , Peter Rogers , Shane Doherty all former members would give you views similar to the Price sisters.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So he didn't perjure himself, that we know of. He has already admitted he did the wrong thing in the case of his brother. We know this too. We also know he gave evidence at his trial.
Yet the claim is he has ignored all this.

As said, that is just lies. Every single issue involving him has been addressed over and over again to the point of tedium.

He has never said which version of the story is the truth. He had told several different stories about Liam Adams, which are the lies, which are the truth (that is, if any of them are the truth)?

He has never explained how Sinn Fein got Liam a job working with children in Louth.

tomwaterford

blanch152 wrote: »

Praising Gerry Adams for stopping organising a terrrorist criminal gang is like praising a mass murderer for stopping. I just can't go there.

Now before you jump on me, that is a legitimate view of Gerry Adams, held by a lot of people.

This is your own issue to deal with tbh,


I'd praise leadership of taking a view that the war was unwinnable on both sides and he lead the way in peace talks??

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

He has never said which version of the story is the truth. He had told several different stories about Liam Adams, which are the lies, which are the truth (that is, if any of them are the truth)?

He has never explained how Sinn Fein got Liam a job working with children in Louth.

This whole case has been discussed on this site before.
I am not interested in rehashing it.
The claim was made that Adams ignored it, he hasn't. He issued a lengthy statement on it when it concluded.
That is not 'ignoring it' even if it didn't contain what you wanted it to.

end of the road

blanch152 wrote: »

We know he is a liar

nope. you think he is a liar because he didn't tell you what you want to hear. there is a big difference between telling lies and not telling someone what they want to hear.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This whole case has been discussed on this site before.
I am not interested in rehashing it.
The claim was made that Adams ignored it, he hasn't. He issued a lengthy statement on it when it concluded.
That is not 'ignoring it' even if it didn't contain what you wanted it to.

I never said he had ignored it, I said he lied about it and has never clarified which version is the truth.

end of the road wrote: »

nope. you think he is a liar because he didn't tell you what you want to hear. there is a big difference between telling lies and not telling someone what they want to hear.

If someone tells two different and contradictory versions of the same story, then they are a liar.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I never said he had ignored it, I said he lied about it and has never clarified which version is the truth.



If someone tells two different and contradictory versions of the same story, then they are a liar.

He gave evidence in court at his brothers trial. His brother is rightfully in jail.
The story has concluded.
I never did get a link to the spotlight interview and cannot comment on it. But it doesn't seem to figure large in the many allegations made against him.

I would say that politicians being vague or less than forthcoming in TV interviews would be a common enough occurrence. He gave evidence were it mattered, in a court of law and has presented himself to police when required.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

He gave evidence in court at his brothers trial. His brother is rightfully in jail.
The story has concluded.
I never did get a link to the spotlight interview and cannot comment on it. But it doesn't seem to figure large in the many allegations made against him.

I would say that politicians being vague or less than forthcoming in TV interviews would be a common enough occurrence. He gave evidence were it mattered, in a court of law and has presented himself to police when required.

So at best, he dissembles like the worst of politicians, at worst, he is a liar.

As for presenting himself to police when required, do you believe the fairy tale of the list of names being posted through his letterbox by someone who wasn't seen on any CCTV footage?

end of the road

blanch152 wrote: »

I never said he had ignored it, I said he lied about it and has never clarified which version is the truth.



If someone tells two different and contradictory versions of the same story, then they are a liar.

no they aren't. gerry didn't lie and gave clarification.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

So at best, he dissembles like the worst of politicians, at worst, he is a liar.

As for presenting himself to police when required, do you believe the fairy tale of the list of names being posted through his letterbox by someone who wasn't seen on any CCTV footage?

Nobody ever presented a link to the Spotlight clip, despite being asked to. I can't comment on what he was doing.
I do think most politicians dissemble, spin or lie at times. Par for the course.

And Adams is not going to wreck his relationships or the peace process by naming sources. You are just being silly, he has a delicate path to tread and thankfully he has managed it.

The_Kew_Tour

end of the road wrote: »

sf are not terrorists and never were.
.

They were

The_Kew_Tour

end of the road wrote: »

. sf represent real republicans.

They dont

blanch152

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

They were

Of course they were, but do you know what gets tiresome around here?

The policing of this thread by those who adore Adams. You will be asked to prove it, told he was never convicted, his halo will be pointed out to you.....well maybe not the last one, but sometimes you think those who worship at the Church of Gerry think he has a halo.

You will be told he has never lied (despite being a proven liar), was never a member of the IRA (despite every dog in the street knowing), that he knew nothing about the sexual abuse of his niece (even though he did), that he has no clue who Jean McConville is and never met her, that the Stack brothers are liars, I could go on and on but really the attempts to rewrite Gerry's history as some sort of benevolent hero is just awfully sickening.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Of course they were, but do you know what gets tiresome around here?

The policing of this thread by those who adore Adams. You will be asked to prove it, told he was never convicted, his halo will be pointed out to you.....well maybe not the last one, but sometimes you think those who worship at the Church of Gerry think he has a halo.

You will be told he has never lied (despite being a proven liar), was never a member of the IRA (despite every dog in the street knowing), that he knew nothing about the sexual abuse of his niece (even though he did), that he has no clue who Jean McConville is and never met her, that the Stack brothers are liars, I could go on and on but really the attempts to rewrite Gerry's history as some sort of benevolent hero is just awfully sickening.

I don't see anyone trying to make him a saint. You do get desperate sometimes in your hate of all things SF and Adams.

Adams lived through the eye of a conflict/war. Again - he has admitted to mistakes and apologised for them, not 40 years after, immediately after the conflict ended.
He has spent twenty dangerous years building the peace. He does not engage in hate speech, was never is sectarian but can still make mistakes.

FrancieBrady

By the way Blanch, if you want an example of a government and a political party and ministers 'disembling, spinning or lying'(take your pick) pay attention to Katie Hannon's breaking story on Maurice McCabe.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

By the way Blanch, if you want an example of a government and a political party and ministers 'disembling, spinning or lying'(take your pick) pay attention to Katie Hannon's breaking story on Maurice McCabe.

Don't tell me they were all killing people and burying bodies in unmarked graves, or moving child abusers across borders, kneecapping and punishment beating along the way, with the odd bombing of children thrown in?

Seriously, you are comparing them?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Don't tell me they were all killing people and burying bodies in unmarked graves, or moving child abusers across borders, kneecapping and punishment beating along the way, with the odd bombing of children thrown in?

Seriously, you are comparing them?

A lie is a lie it not? Told by a liar/liars. Unless it is alright to tell lies, dissemble or spin about some things. That the point you are making?

I am just giving an example of the point I was making. Squeaky bum few days for FG ahead.

maccored

blanch152 wrote: »

Of course they were, but do you know what gets tiresome around here?

The policing of this thread by those who adore Adams. You will be asked to prove it, told he was never convicted, his halo will be pointed out to you.....well maybe not the last one, but sometimes you think those who worship at the Church of Gerry think he has a halo.

You will be told he has never lied (despite being a proven liar), was never a member of the IRA (despite every dog in the street knowing), that he knew nothing about the sexual abuse of his niece (even though he did), that he has no clue who Jean McConville is and never met her, that the Stack brothers are liars, I could go on and on but really the attempts to rewrite Gerry's history as some sort of benevolent hero is just awfully sickening.

Weird thing is though, despite the red top newspaper fueled gossip, the likes of which you just outlined, neither the guards or the psni - after trying for years - have anything at all to charge him with. Either a rare criminal mastermind who controls the government or you are incorrect and going a bit ott.

He hasnt even left yet. Imagine what will you be like by the time he does step down

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A lie is a lie it not? Told by a liar/liars. Unless it is alright to tell lies, dissemble or spin about some things. That the point you are making?

I am just giving an example of the point I was making. Squeaky bum few days for FG ahead.

You are going off-topic to try and confuse and distract. Understandable.

end of the road

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

They were

nope wrong,
they were and are a legitimate political party.

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

They dont

they do as they are the only political party which supports the republican goal

blanch152 wrote: »

Of course they were, but do you know what gets tiresome around here?

The policing of this thread by those who adore Adams. You will be asked to prove it, told he was never convicted, his halo will be pointed out to you.....well maybe not the last one, but sometimes you think those who worship at the Church of Gerry think he has a halo.

You will be told he has never lied (despite being a proven liar), was never a member of the IRA (despite every dog in the street knowing), that he knew nothing about the sexual abuse of his niece (even though he did), that he has no clue who Jean McConville is and never met her, that the Stack brothers are liars, I could go on and on but really the attempts to rewrite Gerry's history as some sort of benevolent hero is just awfully sickening.

he was never convicted. he has never lied. he was not a member of the ira. the dogs on the street knowing something doesn't make it accurate.

blanch152 wrote: »

Don't tell me they were all killing people and burying bodies in unmarked graves, or moving child abusers across borders, kneecapping and punishment beating along the way, with the odd bombing of children thrown in?

Seriously, you are comparing them?

nope, but don't let facts get in the way of fo outrage.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

You are going off-topic to try and confuse and distract. Understandable.

Slightly off topic to illustrate a point. Allowed in AH.

blanch152

end of the road wrote: »

he was never convicted. he has never lied. he was not a member of the ira. the dogs on the street knowing something doesn't make it accurate.


.

We believe you.

The_Kew_Tour

end of the road wrote: »

nope wrong,
they were and are a legitimate political party.

Yes with a Gun by their side.

The_Kew_Tour

end of the road wrote: »

they do as they are the only political party which supports the republican goal

Nope wrong

end of the road

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Nope wrong

none of the other political parties support the republican dream/goal. sf are the only ones and have the support of the irish republicans.

Wheeliebin30

end of the road wrote: »

none of the other political parties support the republican dream/goal. sf are the only ones and have the support of the irish republicans.

The only thing they managed after 30 years of killing people is to help admimister British rule in Ireland.

And they get paid for it.

People were sold a lie, and are starting to realise it now.

FrancieBrady

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

The only thing they managed after 30 years of killing people is to help admimister British rule in Ireland.

And they get paid for it.

People were sold a lie, and are starting to realise it now.

Another poster who has a yearning for the conflict because you cannot grasp the concept of evolution or change.

If people are 'realising' this are you suggesting that SF will implode electorally?
Will they migrate to voting for the SDLP?

How will this 'realisation' manifest itself? A few random bitter posters on the internet criticising them?
Let us know, because it seems to me that SF are getting more and more of the vote.

Wheeliebin30

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Another poster who has a yearning for the conflict because you cannot grasp the concept of evolution or change.

If people are 'realising' this are you suggesting that SF will implode electorally?
Will they migrate to voting for the SDLP?

How will this 'realisation' manifest itself? A few random bitter posters on the internet criticising them?
Let us know, because it seems to me that SF are getting more and more of the vote.

Whos ruling the north at the moment all over some lame duck excuse about the Irish language?

Load of nonsense.

FrancieBrady

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Whos ruling the north at the moment all over some lame duck excuse about the Irish language?

Load of nonsense.

You said people are 'realising they were sold a lie'

Where is the evidence of that?

Come on now, you said it. You show us.

tomwaterford

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You said people are 'realising they were sold a lie'

Where is the evidence of that?

Come on now, you said it. You show us.

This should be interesting....either wheeliebin30 is a hard line dissident or is unaware unionists no longer hold a majoity in Stormont?

Mr. CooL ICE

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