I now understand 'masc for masc' behaviour

eaglach

So I am one of those guys who regularly comes across as the typically perceived straight man in day to day life, that is, I do not follow the old gay stereotype of being flamboyant or camp. I enjoy sport, drink pints and have a terrible sense of fashion!

Whenever I tell someone that I'm gay they are always surprised. This is not me trying to say how masculine I am by the way, it's just how it is. I don't go announcing it to everyone, but if asked I would tell them. Basically I've been living in gay obscurity all my life.

I think this is why I have been so adamant at following the much derided "masc for masc" behaviour up until now. It was not a conscious thing. I had always given both sides a chance, but I was of the belief that camp or effeminate guys weren't a match for me.

That was up until recently. I think over the past few years I've become much more comfortable in myself, being able to speak about my personal life more openly and caring less what people think.

I believe that subconsciously I feared being outed if I went on a date with an effeminate guy. All my life I was unassuming, but as soon as I was in a one-to-one scenario with a camp guy in a bar or restaurant I immediately felt a million eyes on me. It was a sense of paranoia that people were watching, judging. This is something I never had to deal with in my life, going around being my apparently straight self.

I now see that people don't really give a damn and I'm much less conscious of it. I came to this realisation recently where I went on a date with a somewhat effeminate guy. When I first met him I thought "oh no, this guy's not my type at all". As the evening went on we got on really well and went on a few more dates. I think the reason for it going so well was because I felt much more relaxed than I did a few years ago.

I compare the whole thing to buying a really trendy outfit or new haircut that you're not quite sure suits you. You're looking over your shoulder wondering are people staring, fearing that you look foolish or that they are all mocking you. But you shouldn't care, as long as you feel it works for you.

I'm not really looking for any affirmation or have any questions to ask, I just thought I'd share my thoughts!

cgcsb

Love this post and can 100% identify with it. I'm finding recently that I quite like the slightly camp boys, romantically that is. The anxiety you feel being identified as gay when you're having a date with a guy who may be perceived as being camp is not unfounded.

I recently(within the last year) went a date with a guy, in a pub in a small town. It was quiet enough, I went up to the bar and orderd two drinks, a pint for me and a vodka-something for yer man, that alone was met with a raised eyebrow. When we were sitting down chatting we had an audience of 3 oul lads at the bar, one of which was just openly starring. Anyway the guy I was with touched the top of my hand in a somewhat affectionate manor. Well the oul lad just about fell off his barstool with the fright. We said we'd go elsewhere after that.

OhChicken

I too have no style and don't bother with trendy haircuts. My ideal bf would be a hurler from Wexford or somewhere but such a find seems impossible. Seems that if you want to have a relationship would have to be open to less masc guys, as us truely masc folk are few and far between.

road_high

cgcsb wrote: »

I recently(within the last year) went a date with a guy, in a pub in a small town. It was quiet enough, I went up to the bar and orderd two drinks, a pint for me and a vodka-something for yer man, that alone was met with a raised eyebrow. When we were sitting down chatting we had an audience of 3 oul lads at the bar, one of which was just openly starring. Anyway the guy I was with touched the top of my hand in a somewhat affectionate manor. Well the oul lad just about fell off his barstool with the fright. We said we'd go elsewhere after that.

Jesus can certain Irish people ever mind their own bloody business in public/social scenes?

cgcsb

OhChicken wrote: »

I too have no style and don't bother with trendy haircuts. My ideal bf would be a hurler from Wexford or somewhere but such a find seems impossible. Seems that if you want to have a relationship would have to be open to less masc guys, as us truely masc folk are few and far between.

It's that stinging sarcasm that really gets my motor running.

cgcsb

road_high wrote: »

Jesus can certain Irish people ever mind their own bloody business in public/social scenes?

Evidently not

crby

OhChicken wrote: »

I too have no style and don't bother with trendy haircuts. My ideal bf would be a hurler from Wexford or somewhere but such a find seems impossible. Seems that if you want to have a relationship would have to be open to less masc guys, as us truely masc folk are few and far between.

if you find where they're hiding please let us know!

JackTaylorFan

eaglach wrote: »

I enjoy sport, drink pints and have a terrible sense of fashion!

Lol... You use a lot stereotypes for someone claiming to have become enlightened; effeminate gay men usually have terrible fashion sense

eaglach

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

Lol... You use a lot stereotypes for someone claiming to have become enlightened; effeminate gay men usually have terrible fashion sense

That was exactly my point. I don't fit into the widely held stereotype.

JackTaylorFan

eaglach wrote: »

That was exactly my point. I don't fit into the widely held stereotype.

No, it wasn't... Your point is that you lump everybody else into a stereotype.

Annasopra

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

Lol... You use a lot stereotypes for someone claiming to have become enlightened; effeminate gay men usually have terrible fashion sense

What? Are you complaining about someone stereotyping then stereotyping yourself?

JackTaylorFan

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

What? Are you complaining about someone stereotyping then stereotyping yourself?

It's called satire. Making a point with ironic sentiment.

eaglach

JackTaylorFan wrote: »

No, it wasn't... Your point is that you lump everybody else into a stereotype.

I've really no idea what you're referring to. I said that I do not fall into the old widely held stereotype that people believe. I never said that they were stereotypes I followed.

eaglach wrote: »

So I am one of those guys who regularly comes across as the typically perceived straight man in day to day life, that is, I do not follow the old gay stereotype of being flamboyant or camp. I enjoy sport, drink pints and have a terrible sense of fashion!

JackTaylorFan

eaglach wrote: »

I've really no idea what you're referring to. I said that I do not fall into the old widely held stereotype that people believe. I never said that they were stereotypes I followed.

You're saying you don't you did however suggest other gay guys do. I'm not really disagreeing, just think it's funny.

JupiterKid

Plenty of non-effeminite gay guys around now. A lot of them don't frequent the tiny "scene" we have here. But I've been with more than quite a few. I wouldn't regard myself as stereotypically gay either - I follow rugby, have sh*te dress sense and don't frequent the scene.

I tend to go for guys my own age (early 40s) down to early 30s up to late 50s. All pretty masculine and there are plenty out there.

But the one thing I've noticed over the past 5 years is that there are a lot more guys describing themselves as "bi" these days. Ireland is definitely moving on and LGBT people are becoming a lot more comfortable in their sexuality. Less hiding in the closet but sadly that still goes on, especially among older men.

As for that aul lad almost falling off his bar stool, he should get with the picture and with the times! Lol

flaneur

road_high wrote: »

Jesus can certain Irish people ever mind their own bloody business in public/social scenes?

They’ll be boasting about how open minded the village is now.

I was in a fairly remote part of the northwest a few months ago and an old couple were telling me all about the town and how they have a great coffee shop that’s “as fancy as anything you’d get in Dublin”, an upgraded library “that has films and everything” and they even have a lesbian couple moved in the town AND it’s getting the fibre broadband!

There was nothing homophobic about the statement, they were just fiercely proud that the town was progressive.