Tenant issues

m.i.l.f

We've a new tenant since end of July 17. Since they moved in there's been nothing but issues . They are late paying rent and the demands are getting ridiculous ( new windows for example )

This months rent was due yesterday and they've left us short over 300€- when I emailed them they said it was for materials for flooring and painting and they will send us on the invoice ! At no point did we agree any of this . One month my husband agreed that they could deduct the price of paint for the spare room and that was fine but that was only once .
I'm just sick of this . We've bought them a new oven this month and paid a plumber too and now they've left us short for work they fancied doing without speaking to us first
Any suggestions ?

dennyk

A new oven is a reasonable request if the old one was broken or non-functional, as is a plumber if there was a plumbing issue that needed fixing (and it wasn't something caused by the tenant). Everything else is just taking the piss, really; unless the state of the property is truly dire, it's unreasonable for a tenant to be demanding repainting and new flooring and windows, and having it done themselves and deducting from the rent without permission is absurd.

Do you have a signed lease with them? If not, they aren't under Part 4 yet, so just serve them a 28 day notice of termination immediately; make sure all the i's are dotted and t's are crossed. You don't need a reason to do so at this stage of the tenancy, so there's no grounds for dispute on the tenant's part. Check the RTB site at:

https://www.rtb.ie/dispute-resolution/dispute-resolution/sample-notices-of-termination

for the requirements and some samples.

Even if they are under a signed lease, they've probably broken it by underpaying their rent, so you can likely serve them notice in any case. However, you might be required to serve them a 14-day notice of rent arrears first and if they correct the arrears within that time, you may not be able to evict. That is the case for Part 4 tenancies for sure, but I'm not sure if it applies to non-Part 4 tenancies under a fixed term lease; you may want to contact the RTB for advice. Whichever is the case, make sure you follow all the requirements to the letter and document that you've done so, as it will help your case if the tenants choose to dispute it or refuse to leave.

The Student

m.i.l.f wrote: »

We've a new tenant since end of July 17. Since they moved in there's been nothing but issues . They are late paying rent and the demands are getting ridiculous ( new windows for example )

This months rent was due yesterday and they've left us short over 300€- when I emailed them they said it was for materials for flooring and painting and they will send us on the invoice ! At no point did we agree any of this . One month my husband agreed that they could deduct the price of paint for the spare room and that was fine but that was only once .
I'm just sick of this . We've bought them a new oven this month and paid a plumber too and now they've left us short for work they fancied doing without speaking to us first
Any suggestions ?

You need to stop this now. They are testing you to see how far they can push you. Advise them they need to make payment of the outstanding amount of the rent and if they don't issue eviction notice.

In regards the windows, if they are functioning then don't change them. Ironically I was letting one of my properties earlier in the year and the tenants I had agreed to let the property too wanted new carpets and curtains before they would move in. This was a red flag to me I said no and advised them that I would not be letting the property to them. They then came back and said they would replace both themselves. I still said no.

I have different tenants in the property and if they asked could I change the carpet I would as they are decent tenants who keep the place nice and are no trouble.

Mitzy

If these tenants are like this after 3 months & not paying full rent it's time to take action. Otherwise you are going to have nothing but trouble on your hands for the rest of the tenancy & especially when they have Part 4.
I had similar issues with a tenant in the past that proved to be a nightmare & I wish that I had taken action when her behavior became apparent. At the moment it should be easy to rent out the property so why have to deal with problem tenants when you can have hassle free ones.

m.i.l.f

Thanks all. Yes there is a lease but they are under 6 months there .

Yes the oven and plumber were reasonable requests but it just feels like we are constantly either chasing rent or answering emails on requests of work to be done .

I'll issue a warning letter this week to them highlighting the issues and then take it from there .
It's so draining though I'm weary from it all
Thanks all

Ms Doubtfire1

just evict them.It's not going to get any better.in the first 6 month you can end the lease without giving any reason

DrPhilG

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

just evict them.It's not going to get any better.in the first 6 month you can end the lease without giving any reason

Damn straight.

That much BS after only a few months is a big red flag. And the withholding rent without authorisation for work done is completely taking the pi$s.

Hoof em.

spaceHopper

m.i.l.f wrote: »

Thanks all. Yes there is a lease but they are under 6 months there .

Yes the oven and plumber were reasonable requests but it just feels like we are constantly either chasing rent or answering emails on requests of work to be done .

I'll issue a warning letter this week to them highlighting the issues and then take it from there .
It's so draining though I'm weary from it all
Thanks all

Give them their notice, Ms Doubtfire1 they will only get worse, this is your only chance to end it now. Down load the statutory notice off the RTB site and give to them, don't discuss it further with then, just say you feel it not working out and you would like them to move. Beyond that is negotiating with them and is only going to bring trouble on you.

Never mind warning letter, just issue an eviction notice immediately.

That being said it might be more difficult because there is a lease, another example of why LLs should never give fixed term leases as makes it much more difficult to use one of the few powers they have left - termination within the first 6 months.

Graham

Start the formal process of ending the tenancy for rent arrears.

As they have made deductions from the rent, they are in arrears.

https://www.rtb.ie/dispute-resolution/dispute-resolution/the-three-stages-of-a-tenancy/my-tenant-is-in-rent-arrears

m.i.l.f

Thanks all 14 day arrears letter posted today - though I'm thinking just evict as we will probably be back to square one if they pay the balance .

GGTrek

m.i.l.f wrote: »

Thanks all 14 day arrears letter posted today - though I'm thinking just evict as we will probably be back to square one if they pay the balance .

OP please answer the big question: have you or have you not granted a fixed term lease to these tenants?

If you haven't then screw the warning and immediately issue the no reason termination notice: https://www.rtb.ie/docs/default-source/notice-of-terminations-landlord-pdf/sample-notice---terminating-in-first-six-months.pdf?sfvrsn=2

If you instead were crazy enough to grant a fixed term beyond 5 months then good luck, you will need it.

I have just issued a termination notice notice to two tenants in the first 6 months just because they delayed rent by a few days for the second time (first time I told them that punctual payment of rent is of the essence). This time I told them it was not my job to remind them to pay rent on time! With the govvie and RTB against you, you have to be brutal to stay in the business.

m.i.l.f

GGTrek wrote: »

OP please answer the big question: have you or have you not granted a fixed term lease to these tenants?

If you haven't then screw the warning and immediately issue the no reason termination notice: https://www.rtb.ie/docs/default-source/notice-of-terminations-landlord-pdf/sample-notice---terminating-in-first-six-months.pdf?sfvrsn=2

If you instead were crazy enough to grant a fixed term beyond 5 months then good luck, you will need it.

I have just issued a termination notice notice to two tenants in the first 6 months just because they delayed rent by a few days for the second time (first time I told them that punctual payment of rent is of the essence). This time I told them it was not my job to remind them to pay rent on time! With the govvie and RTB against you, you have to be brutal to stay in the business.

We issued a 1 year lease - dated July 2017

TheChizler

m.i.l.f wrote: »

Thanks all 14 day arrears letter posted today - though I'm thinking just evict as we will probably be back to square one if they pay the balance .

Give any idea of eviction second thought and consult someone qualified before you even mention the word to them as an eviction at this point would be highly illegal. See how they respond to the notice of arrears, with any luck they'll ignore it. Do you have proof they got it actually?

I'd keep everything in writing from now on. If they call either refuse to talk or follow up with an email repeating the outcome of the conversation.

spaceHopper

m.i.l.f wrote: »

We issued a 1 year lease - dated July 2017

Give them an eviction notice with in the first 6 months forget about the lease that nothing to do with the RTB it's a contract between the tenant and you which I think they have already broken. If they get beyond 6 months you are stuck with them for 4 years, they will always mess you about

m.i.l.f

spaceHopper wrote: »

Give them an eviction notice with in the first 6 months forget about the lease that nothing to do with the RTB it's a contract between the tenant and you which I think they have already broken. If they get beyond 6 months you are stuck with them for 4 years, they will always mess you about

Thanks - I didn't realise that .

I think I will it's way too much hassle , worry and financial strain on us

TheChizler

TheChizler wrote: »

Give any idea of eviction second thought and consult someone qualified before you even mention the word to them as an eviction at this point would be highly illegal.

Why would it be highly illegal? You can terminate within the first 6 moths for any reason you wish. The lease does complicate things but saying "it would be highly illegal" is hyperbole. I'd argue the lease has been broken by them and issue the eviction notice.

GGTrek

m.i.l.f wrote: »

GGTrek wrote: »

OP please answer the big question: have you or have you not granted a fixed term lease to these tenants?

If you haven't then screw the warning and immediately issue the no reason termination notice: https://www.rtb.ie/docs/default-source/notice-of-terminations-landlord-pdf/sample-notice---terminating-in-first-six-months.pdf?sfvrsn=2

If you instead were crazy enough to grant a fixed term beyond 5 months then good luck, you will need it.

I have just issued a termination notice notice to two tenants in the first 6 months just because they delayed rent by a few days for the second time (first time I told them that punctual payment of rent is of the essence). This time I told them it was not my job to remind them to pay rent on time! With the govvie and RTB against you, you have to be brutal to stay in the business.

We issued a 1 year lease - dated July 2017

Oh Dear! I really feel for you. Then issue the late rent payment warning and pray they will not pay within 14 days.
A landlord should NEVER provide fixed term. I could show you a tribunal RTB report issued very recently where the fixed term is really only binding the landlord. The tenant could get out of the fixed term by simply sending you an assignment letter where he assigns the lease to a bum found on the side of the road today. If you refuse tenant is free from term sInce the RTA conveniently "forgets" to mention that landlord should have the right to opine on the assignee! The current RTA is a tenant's charter, the lease without fixed term is for the protection of the landlord only.

GGTrek

OP if you have written this is a lease for a FIXED term of 12 months you will not be able to give the no reason termination notice.

Sasha144

What would you suggest landlords do for new tenants, give no lease at all and if things are going well then let them take their part IV rights after 6 months?

Mitzy

And people wonder why landlords are selling up in droves........

Spanish Eyes

Is there a need for a lease or agreement for a non fixed term. i.e let's see how it goes for a less than six months "trial period"?

What if the tenants refuse to leave even if a termination notice sub six months can be issued with no defined reason?

CIARAN_BOYLE

Sasha144 wrote: »

What would you suggest landlords do for new tenants, give no lease at all and if things are going well then let them take their part IV rights after 6 months?

Well they can take their part iv rihts after a year's fixed term lease so no lease at all is better for landlords.

Give the warning letter for non payment and hope they don't pay so can continue on towards eviction. I'm sure you may also be able to terminate on the basis of criminal damage to your flooring but I would advise legal advice.

Graham

Sasha144 wrote: »

What would you suggest landlords do for new tenants, give no lease at all and if things are going well then let them take their part IV rights after 6 months?

Tenants get their part 4 rights with or without a lease.

dennyk

It's probably best to have a lease agreement of some sort regardless, even if it doesn't specify a term, so that you can outline the tenant's obligations in writing (e.g. when rent is due and how it can be paid, how the tenant should handle maintenance issues, who is responsible for paying for utility services, etc.) to make everything clear so that there can be no he-said-she-said dispute over certain terms of the tenancy later on.

A fixed term lease has pluses and minuses for both parties. On the tenant's side, it ensures security of tenure for the entire term of the lease, including the first six month period before Part 4 rights kick in, assuming there isn't a no-reason break clause for the landlord. On the landlord's side, it locks the tenant in for the fixed term and, should the tenant break the lease, allows the landlord to pursue them for monetary losses incurred while re-letting the property (including the rent owed for any period it was unoccupied, assuming the landlord made a reasonable effort to re-let ASAP), which helps protect you (or at least mitigates your losses) from flaky tenants who up and leave after a short period. Whether that is worth locking yourself into a lease that extends beyond the initial six months is up to you (though in the current landlord-friendly market, it doesn't seem like you'd have much trouble finding a new tenant quickly in the event yours takes a runner anyway).

Spanish Eyes

Graham wrote: »

Tenants get their part 4 rights with or without a lease.

After six months though, I thought?

I was just wondering if a LL said OK in you go but it's only for a trial period of six months. Is that legal too., in order to be able to terminate without any reason within or at the end of the six month period?

And does anyone know (as I mentioned earlier) if LL has to say in writing by agreement etc that the lease is for first six months initially?

TheChizler

Ulises Dirty Garbage wrote: »

Why would it be highly illegal? You can terminate within the first 6 moths for any reason you wish. The lease does complicate things but saying "it would be highly illegal" is hyperbole. I'd argue the lease has been broken by them and issue the eviction notice.

I misread that they were there over 6 months not under so ignore the illegal bit.

I'd still get legal advice to be safe though, if just to make sure the notice is properly worded and there's no loophole in the lease, like neglecting to say rent in arrears is grounds for terminating the lease. Unlikely but I've seen some badly drafted leases.

maurice1

Minister Kelly Labour changed the 4 year to 6 year so with only 1 probation period of 6 months. Previously there was a probation period after every part 4 came to an end. Leases only protect tenants and put further constraints on Landlords. If I was you I would call the IPOA.ie for fully up to date advise.

https://www.rtb.ie/search-results/news/article/2016/12/23/changes-to-policy-and-the-law
Security of Tenure

Security for both landlords and tenants is essential if the rental sector is to be both an attractive option for tenants and a safe and viable investment choice for investors. The rental strategy aims to move towards a situation where longer term tenancies are the norm. The legislation extends tenancies from 4 years to 6 year tenancies. This will apply to all new tenancies that come into operation after 24th December 2016 which includes a further Part 4 tenancy that come into existence after 24th December 2016. Landlords currently can terminate within the first six months of a tenancy without giving a reason. Once a Part 4 tenancy comes into existence it can only be terminated by using one of the grounds listed below.

Browney7

TheChizler wrote: »

I misread that they were there over 6 months not under so ignore the illegal bit.

I'd still get legal advice to be safe though, if just to make sure the notice is properly worded and there's no loophole in the lease, like neglecting to say rent in arrears is grounds for terminating the lease. Unlikely but I've seen some badly drafted leases.

But isn't the whole problem if the OP seeks to terminate the tenancy before the cessation of the fixed term he/she needs to specify what grounds? If it's for being in rent arrears the tenant gets 14 days to rectify the situation.

Best bet is use grounds of damage to property (painting and flooring without permission) but again, tenant could rectify this. Will be difficult to remove tenants.

Graham

maurice1 wrote: »

Landlords currently can terminate within the first six months of a tenancy without giving a reason. Once a Part 4 tenancy comes into existence it can only be terminated by using one of the grounds listed below.

Assuming the landlord hasn't granted the tenant additional rights by way of a fixed term lease.

dennyk

It's possible that the 14 day notice to make good on the arrears might not be required under a fixed term lease where the tenant hasn't yet acquired Part 4 tenancy rights. If being in arrears at all invalidates the lease as it is written and thus the lease is no longer in force, then only the RTA would apply and the tenancy could be terminated with a 28 day notice for any reason at that point.