Fire alarm and emergency lighting regulations

carveone

I'm finding myself somewhat bewildered by these (apparent) regulations. I say "apparent" because, although its meant to be the law, I can't find a copy of the relevant SI.

Does anyone have any idea of which regulations govern fire alarm and emergency inspections? All I can find is IS3216 and IS3217 and you have to pay NSAI for those - I simply cannot imagine that you have to pay money to find out what the law of the land is!?!? I'd be shocked if that was the case (but I bet it is).

The reason is that I want the fire system and lighting in our small apt block (6 apts) to be checked more often. It's common to just ignore these things and I'm not happy to do that - just like with gas boilers. But when I ask, various companies say "it's every 12 weeks". By who and why? Won't tell me. The last quote is 840 euro/year.

As far as I can tell from googling, IS3216 and 7 says weekly, 3 monthly, annual tests. There's ONE corridor in this block - I check it every time I go out. I would assume quarterly is a power fail test. Which, as an experienced mechanical/electronic/software engineer of 20 years, I can perform - you turn the test key. I can also replace light bulbs but I know where the line is as regard "Safe Electric" qualifications (which I don't have). Ditto with fire alarm test - you turn the test key.

I'd be happy to have an annual test done by a proper company but I'm unwilling to spend, let's see, 840 euro to do it! Frankly I want to change the emergency lights to LED but I won't be able to afford it if I have to pay that to inspect them!

Thanks...

Riskymove

Bulding Regs?

http://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/building-standards/tgd-part-b-fire-safety/technical-guidance-document-b-fire-safety

carveone

Riskymove wrote: »

Bulding Regs?

http://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/building-standards/tgd-part-b-fire-safety/technical-guidance-document-b-fire-safety

I was using that document to attempt to figure out if fire extinguishers are required (they aren't) with similar difficulty. I have found out that the relevant SI (at least SI.17 for rentals) just says: Fire detection and alarm systems and emergency lighting systems required under Regulation 10(4) and 10(5) shall be maintained in accordance with current standards.
...
“current standards” means standards produced by the National Standards Authority of Ireland for Fire Detection and Fire Alarm Systems in Buildings and for Emergency Lighting;

So there you go. The NSAI charge to see those standards. Ignorance of the law is no excuse apparently, as long as you have the money to find out what it is. Officially that is. I suppose more googling will turn up the appropriate documents

Nika744

Welcome to the world of standards. Buy one and it will direct you to many others at a lot of expense, especially for a small business or somebody like you.
Industry and anybody interested, creates them as volunteers, you can get involved if you have an area of expertise.
There is a very valid argument for them to be free, but that will take some time.

carveone

Nika744 wrote: »

Welcome to the world of standards. Buy one and it will direct you to many others at a lot of expense, especially for a small business or somebody like you.
Industry and anybody interested, creates them as volunteers, you can get involved if you have an area of expertise.
There is a very valid argument for them to be free, but that will take some time.

As an engineer I see this type of thing in industry. For example, the NFC protocols (Android Pay etc) are pay for standards. Not that it stops me using google to find copies anyway.

<going off topic>
However, I find it somewhat disturbing, from a democratic point of view, that an SI would redirect to the NSAI in such a direct manner. It would seem to give the NSAI (and the companies it creates) rather a lot power to effect law.

Interestingly, the NSAI own copyright on the standards it produces - not the State. "All or part". Which might mean that if I tell someone how to comply with the law I could be in breach of copyright, depending on how much you view "fair use". The NSAI act, 1996, allows the authority to charge fees for certain things, and standards isn't explicitly one of them. Also:

Section 24.—(1) The Authority shall keep (a) a register of standard specifications...

(2) Each register shall be made available for inspection by any person, free of charge, at all reasonable times.

Hmm. Time to write a letter to a Minister. Nothing will happen of course, but might make me feel better.

murphthesmurf

Generally speaking an apartment block fire alarm system would be serviced quarterly by 'a competent person' as per IS3218: 2013. The company that quoted you are probably also going to do a quarterly test of the emergency lighting which would be 1 hour, 3 times a year and a 3 hours test once a year.
The emergency lighting should also be tested weekly and monthly by 'the responsible person'. The fire alarm system should be tested weekly too by a 'responsible person'. With your background you could argue that you are competent to do the weekly and monthly tests of the fire alarm and emergency lights and designate yourself as the 'responsibile person'. The quarterly servicing must be done by a 'competent person'.
What is a competent person I hear you say? Unfortunately this will probably be decided in court should anything go wrong. Eg building burns down and investigators/court establish whether the person who was carrying out the service was 'competent'. The regulations do not state what is required of a person for them to be competent
€210 per quarter you say, what part of the country are you in? If it's Dublin then you will probably pay this, but get plenty of quotes. Beware of cowboys who'll come in and say "sure I'll do that for ye for 100 a quarter" but actually don't do ****. There are a lot of them around. A reputable company should tell you honestly how often and what has to be done, and when they take on the contract show you how to do weekly tests etc.
Fire standards here are a bit of a mess, it is only a matter of time before the next Starburst or our own Grenfall. I've seen hotels passed by fire officers which I would have closed immediately.

carveone

I was going to PM rather than reply but sure...

murphthesmurf wrote: »

What is a competent person I hear you say? Unfortunately this will probably be decided in court should anything go wrong. Eg building burns down and investigators/court establish whether the person who was carrying out the service was 'competent'. The regulations do not state what is required of a person for them to be competent

Yes, exactly. I can deem myself competent, which I am, but the whole liability thing is where it gets interesting. By which I mean I'd have to be mad to do all the tests myself! I'll do some of them and get a company to do the others. Especially the fire alarm. Emergency lighting is easy.

Fire standards here are a bit of a mess, it is only a matter of time before the next Starburst or our own Grenfall. I've seen hotels passed by fire officers which I would have closed immediately.

Wow, really? I thought they were getting better. Personally I would like to see an NCT type situation, once a year, where a proper fire audit is done on every apartment/hotel etc. and signed off.

Victor

Talk to your insurer and see what they require.

If it is a modern building, did the designers / builders provide maintenance documents?