Ireland lose out on "lucrative" EU banking agency. Is this a lesson for Dublin?

xl500

listermint wrote: »

Paris isn't actually that nice. Have you been. As in properly bin or just spent time at the tower?


And well the locals they aren't that nice either.

Oh I have Been

cgcsb

Muahahaha wrote: »

I think the Govt. were just hoping that at all this Brexit related moving would go our way on account of being english speaking. They are now finding out that without decent housing available for employees companies realise that attracting employees from abroad will not be easy. Couple that with our high cost of living which feeds into higher wage demands and it is not surprising that companies will choose to avoid locating to Dublin.

London is more expensive than Dublin and staff that move over will not be getting a pay cut, so it'll be a win win for them

kravmaga

realitykeeper wrote: »

And yet an even smaller country like Switzerland (with it`s capital city smack bang in the middle) is far more successful, despite doing the exact opposite.

You cant compare Ireland to Switzerland, you joking me?? They are not even in the EU for a start.

Switzerland has been a very wealthy country for a long time and Ireland is not even in the half-penny place, so I think you need to pick a country in the EU and not one of the richest countries in Europe as a comparison.

cgcsb

Goodshape wrote: »

Presumably because it's sucking the people, the culture, the small businesses, and the life out of the rest of the country in order to fuel it's all-important 'economy' which, in turn, benefits Dublin itself more than anywhere else.

"Dublin accounts for most of Ireland's GDP" – I've no doubt it does. GDP isn't everything when it comes to quality of life though. And I live in Dublin, and I contribute to that "most of Ireland's GDP", and I'm here because there's sweet feck all for me in my home county.

Cities take in workers from surrounding countryside. That is how cities have operated since the industrial revolition. Dublin doesn't benefit from it all, indeed our local property tax is distributed to other councils. We can't even pay a few quid to extend Dublin Bikes. Our rail network still operates diesel locos and no new lines have been built in 100 years. How is a city supposed to function without investmen/

cgcsb

xl500 wrote: »

Im Sure the staff of Banking Agency were Crapping themselves before the decision

Imagine Dublin or Paris

Paris is boring tacky and insular if u ask me

ixoy

cgcsb wrote: »

Paris is boring tacky and insular if u ask me

And it ranked lower than Dublin in that ex-pats survey that was so recently used to give out stink about Dublin.

It's worth noting as well that the EBA would see a fair number of people coming in from other EU countries. Proximity to an airport would be fairly important and one that has a good number of flights. That ruled out nearly anywhere else for this particular agency's needs.

Dr Crayfish

realitykeeper wrote: »

What about outside Dublin? There is an entire country out there just waiting to be developed. Think New World. Think what an enterprising people like the Dutch or Swiss might do had they such abundance bestowed upon them. This huddling together in the snug mentality must end. Dublin alone is not Ireland.

But sure none of you want to live in towns or cities around Ireland. You all want a big horrible one off housing McMansion miles away from everything, instead of having clustered centres where facilities could be shared and developed - maybe it might even attract foreign investors!

CelticRambler

realitykeeper wrote: »

It is in the central plateau, a trifling 50 miles from the country`s epicenter. By contrast, Dublin is on Ireland`s eastern extremity and a long long way from Clare to there.

80km is hardly "trifling" when (a) that distance to the west takes you over the border into another country; and (b) you said "smack bang in the middle" ... which it isn't if it's offset by 25% of the country's width. :rolleyes:

In case you didn't know, the Central Plateau is in the north of Switzerland, so by definition, any town/city in the Central Plateau is not in the centre of the country.

And it's 329km from Loop Head to Dublin, vs. 336km from Saint Moritz to Bern, (unless you want to go mountain-climbing en route). So Dublin being on right on the coast doesn't seem to be such a disadvantage after all, does it?

When were you last in Switzerland?

realitykeeper

Marcusm wrote: »

Been is the 5th largest city in Switzerland and likely most people would guess the capital was Zürich or Geneva ... there are many orders of magnitude difference in population between Dublin and the next 3 cities.

My point exactly and the Swiss have Switzerland to prove it. There is no housing crisis or traffic chaos in Berne and in rural Switzerland, communities are not dying a slow death.

realitykeeper

kravmaga wrote: »

They are not even in the EU for a start.

Irrelevant to the point being made.

realitykeeper

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

But sure none of you want to live in towns or cities around Ireland. You all want a big horrible one off housing McMansion miles away from everything, instead of having clustered centres where facilities could be shared and developed - maybe it might even attract foreign investors!

Whereas you all want to live in a big horrible town called Dublin. The spire does not inspire. The floozie in the Jacuzzi across from Heuston station is a joke. The boardwalk with its junkies, the vomit in Temple bar, the common Dublin accent and to top it all the pride Dublin people take in their horrible city is cringe worthy. Imagine what foreigners must think when Dublin is shown off with pride, it`s like passing flatulence and then boasting about it. I do not want to cause offence but that is how I see it. There are other towns and cities in Ireland that would have facilities (at a fraction of the cost) if the money was not wasted in Dublin.

CelticRambler

It's easy avoid a housing crisis and traffic chaos when the city is pretty dull and no-one goes there willingly!

But still you'd prefer if Ireland had 32 local, largely autonomous governments (there are two regional councils for the Appenzell area alone - one for the Protestants, one for the Catholics), and Rule-by-Referendum is the norm.

Oh, and everyone to bed (or at least shut inside with the music turned off) by 10pm.

Yeah, I can see that working in Ireland.

Oh, and I presume the irony isn't lost on you, of the Swiss voting to restrict the free movement of EU people; as a result, suffering a 20bn€ drop in funding for EU-sponsored projects (and the jobs that go with them); and finally having to concede several points (despite the "will of the people" in order to maintain their other trading arrangements.

Seth Brundle

realitykeeper wrote: »

Whereas you all want to live in a big horrible town called Dublin. The spire does not inspire. The floozie in the Jacuzzi across from Heuston station is a joke. The boardwalk with its junkies, the vomit in Temple bar, the common Dublin accent and to top it all the pride Dublin people take in their horrible city is cringe worthy. Imagine what foreigners must think when Dublin is shown off with pride, it`s like passing flatulence and then boasting about it. I do not want to cause offence but that is how I see it. There are other towns and cities in Ireland that would have facilities (at a fraction of the cost) if the money was not wasted in Dublin.

Your views are always so negative. I'd say you're some craic at a party! :rolleyes:


For ages you were telling us of a recession that woukd hit us in Oct or Nov 2017. How did that prediction work out in the end? Youre a timewaster; some may even say a troll.

Nermal

realitykeeper wrote: »

My point exactly and the Swiss have Switzerland to prove it. There is no housing crisis or traffic chaos in Berne and in rural Switzerland, communities are not dying a slow death.

Yes they are:

https://www.independent.ie/life/travel/travel-news/this-idyllic-swiss-village-wants-to-pay-families-over-60000-to-move-there-36342801.html

We should never have rolled the internet out to whatever hamlet it is you live in.

Collie D

realitykeeper wrote: »

Whereas you all want to live in a big horrible town called Dublin. The spire does not inspire. The floozie in the Jacuzzi across from Heuston station is a joke. The boardwalk with its junkies, the vomit in Temple bar, the common Dublin accent and to top it all the pride Dublin people take in their horrible city is cringe worthy. Imagine what foreigners must think when Dublin is shown off with pride, it`s like passing flatulence and then boasting about it. I do not want to cause offence but that is how I see it. There are other towns and cities in Ireland that would have facilities (at a fraction of the cost) if the money was not wasted in Dublin.

Ah so it's just an anti-Dublin rant you're making and not any actual point about the decision? Glad we've cleared that up.

Moving on..

zetalambda

odyssey06 wrote: »

This report is probably more of a concern: "Dublin Ranked 7th in EMA location list"
https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2017/1121/921794-dublin-ranked-7th-in-ema-location-list/

Completely understandable. If you put yourself in their shoes, moving to somewhere like Dublin is like taking a step back in life. Relocating from London to Dublin is akin to moving from Dublin to Waterford.

Dr Crayfish

zetalambda wrote: »

Completely understandable. If you put yourself in their shoes, moving to somewhere like Dublin is like taking a step back in life. Relocating from London to Dublin is akin to moving from Dublin to Waterford.

Don't be ridiculous. It was a step forward for me anyway, I'd never have been able to afford my own place there. London is a global mega city, Dublin is a small calm city on the sea, a lot of people prefer the lifestyle here. Including myself, I moved back here from London a couple of years ago after 4 years there. I love London but way prefer the lifestyle here, and not having to queue for absolutely everything!

fly_agaric

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Why are we even trying to bring more business here if there's nowhere for anyone to live?

I think the govt. have a wormhole up their sleeves - they can invite Brexit refugees to set up in the office blocks going up around Dublin and they can use the wormhole to store their employees when they are not on the job.
No state investment in extra living spaces or commuting capacity needed for Dublin - just private office blocks!

zetalambda

Many people, including myself, assumed that being the only other English speaking country in the EU and having an international financial hub in Dublin would make us the default location for Brexit jobs. But i never thought we would do this bad. While Paris and Frankfurt are hoovering up the Brexit jobs (5000+), we've managed to secure a pitiful 150 jobs. However, 8000 job relocations are yet to be announced by Deutsche bank and JP Morgan although I wouldn't get too excited as the former is German but JP Morgan could potentially move some of those jobs to Ireland. I wont dust my CV off just yet though.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-brexit-bankers/

Dr Crayfish

zetalambda wrote: »

Many people, including myself, assumed that being the only other English speaking country in the EU and having an international financial hub in Dublin would make us the default location for Brexit jobs. But i never thought we would do this bad. While Paris and Frankfurt are hoovering up the Brexit jobs (5000+), we've managed to secure a pitiful 150 jobs. However, 8000 job relocations are yet to be announced by Deutsche bank and JP Morgan although I wouldn't get too excited as the former is German but JP Morgan could potentially move some of those jobs to Ireland. I wont dust my CV off just yet though.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-brexit-bankers/

I don't want them, we have no room, where would they live? All it's going to do is push up rent and property prices even further. We need the infrastructure before we can take on more people and jobs.

zetalambda

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

I don't want them, we have no room, where would they live? All it's going to do is push up rent and property prices even further. We need the infrastructure before we can take on more people and jobs.

Don't worry...i don't think they're coming anyway.:D

fly_agaric

zetalambda wrote: »

Many people, including myself, assumed that being the only other English speaking country in the EU and having an international financial hub in Dublin would make us the default location for Brexit jobs.

The govt. have (somewhat) f-ed themselves (and the country?) over on this with a pair of their stupid and short sighted policies:

• High property prices and rents policy to (ironically) help the busted Irish banks and ensure "success" of NAMA
• Not investing in infrastructure in Dublin (e.g. through European investment bank loans) during the economic crisis/austerity period because it would piss off rural electorate no end - edit, see opening post!

realitykeeper

zetalambda wrote: »

Many people, including myself, assumed that being the only other English speaking country in the EU and having an international financial hub in Dublin would make us the default location for Brexit jobs. But i never thought we would do this bad. While Paris and Frankfurt are hoovering up the Brexit jobs (5000+), we've managed to secure a pitiful 150 jobs.

It does not really surprise me.

realitykeeper

fly_agaric wrote: »

The govt. have (somewhat) f-ed themselves (and the country?) over on this ...
[*]Not investing in infrastructure in Dublin (e.g. through European investment bank loans) during the economic crisis/austerity period because it would piss off rural electorate no end - edit, see opening post!

They did not invest in rural Ireland either, nor would they necessarily need to in order to develop other parts of the country. What they would need to do is:
* Stop using the rest of the country to subsidize Dublin.
* Stop borrowing to fund Dublin based state institutions and state employees unless the repayment of the loan and its interest remains exclusively with Dublin.
* Let Dublin assume responsibility for 95% of the national debt and interest on the national debt as that is where the money was spent.

jobbridge4life

realitykeeper wrote: »

They did not invest in rural Ireland either, nor would they necessarily need to in order to develop other parts of the country. What they would need to do is:
* Stop using the rest of the country to subsidize Dublin.
* Stop borrowing to fund Dublin based state institutions and state employees unless the repayment of the loan and its interest remains exclusively with Dublin.
* Let Dublin assume responsibility for 95% of the national debt and interest on the national debt as that is where the money was spent.

The above is utter fiction, as has already been pointed out to you Dublin produces much more money in taxation than it utilizes in expenditure it in essence subsidizes expenditure on other areas of the country.

jobbridge4life

zetalambda wrote: »

Many people, including myself, assumed that being the only other English speaking country in the EU and having an international financial hub in Dublin would make us the default location for Brexit jobs. But i never thought we would do this bad. While Paris and Frankfurt are hoovering up the Brexit jobs (5000+), we've managed to secure a pitiful 150 jobs. However, 8000 job relocations are yet to be announced by Deutsche bank and JP Morgan although I wouldn't get too excited as the former is German but JP Morgan could potentially move some of those jobs to Ireland. I wont dust my CV off just yet though.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-brexit-bankers/

It is disappointing but ultimately anaylsed from a cold perspective it was perdictable. The Government and media were excessive in their harping on about the chances. While we do enjoy an English language advantage the extent of this is overplayed in my view. The Dutch are, in effect, as capable in the language as many native speakers, Irish and English. The Germans, Belgians, Danes etc similar. Even the Eastern countries are rapidly becoming fluent.

The housing crisis, our extremely high rent and general cost of living, our high personal taxation, combined with the fact that Dublin is a small city, with limited accessibility did us in IMHO.

the_syco

realitykeeper wrote: »

And yet an even smaller country like Switzerland (with it`s capital city smack bang in the middle) is far more successful, despite doing the exact opposite.

Compare the age of the two counties?

fly_agaric

realitykeeper wrote:

They did not invest in rural Ireland either, nor would they necessarily need to in order to develop other parts of the country. What they would need to do is:
* Stop using the rest of the country to subsidize Dublin.
* Stop borrowing to fund Dublin based state institutions and state employees unless the repayment of the loan and its interest remains exclusively with Dublin.
* Let Dublin assume responsibility for 95% of the national debt and interest on the national debt as that is where the money was spent.

I think facts & "reality" have gotten lost down the back of the couch.:(

realitykeeper

jobbridge4life wrote: »

The above is utter fiction, as has already been pointed out to you Dublin produces much more money in taxation than it utilizes in expenditure it in essence subsidizes expenditure on other areas of the country.

How about we let Leitrim play host to every branch of Government and State service and administration along with all the income that comes with it. That would make a hell of a difference to that county`s tax generating capacity. Then add in things like the kind of IDA representation Dublin gets and give it to Leitrim instead. Of course, we must not forget to invest 80% of the rail budget in Leitrim even during years when state investment is very high. Needless to say, we must make the citizen`s of Leitrim millionaires if we need a snippet of their back gardens for a new motorway.

As for Dublin, lets give it what Leitrim gets, - next to nothing. Now lets see who is peddling fiction.

xl500

realitykeeper wrote: »

How about we let Leitrim play host to every branch of Government and State service and administration along with all the income that comes with it, that would make a hell of a difference to that county`s tax generating capacity. Then add in things like the kind of IDA representation Dublin gets and give it to Leitrim instead. Of course, we must not forget to invest 80% of the rail budget in Leitrim even during years investment levels are at there highest. Needless to say, we must make the citizen`s of Leitrim millionaires if we need a snippet of their back gardens for a new motorway.

As for Dublin, lets give it what Leitrim gets, - next to nothing. Now lets see who is peddling fiction.

And if the Rural Farmers Paid at least "some Tax" it would also make a difference to rural Irelands Tax Generating Capacity