Mortgage approced but can’t afford a house

xper

theteal wrote: »

This thread peaked my interest as I've long since lost interest in the Irish property market. I'm surprised at some of the more recent statements about €300k can get you. Based on which I had a quick check of the old 'hood of Walkinstown (nice middle of the road "working class" area, not rough, not snooty, inside m50, not far from city center ).

Right now, there are only two 3 bed houses for < €280k on daft. That's madness. The nicer of the two needs some modernisation. The other one only has one picture (says a lot) and it's a house I have knowledge of from childhood - it'll need substantial work.

So yeah, sorry OP, bleak times. I hear Kilcullen is nice

Its worse than you think. I've been keeping track of the asking and eventual registered selling price of houses I've looked at in south and central Dublin over the last year. On a sample of about 100 properties with an asking price in the range of 250k - 380k, about half have gone for more than 20% higher than asking, a few for more than 40%, about the same number as were sold ±5% of their asking.

mkdon

Agreed property in Ireland is a mess
Where is the regulation what lessons have been learnt from last boom and bust

Estate agents have too much power

I believe there is phantom bidding going on
Something needs to be done and NOW

mkdon

Op where exactly are you searching - more details please

mariaalice

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/elder-heath-elder-heath-kiltipper-road-dublin-24/2963029

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/bremore-castle-mews-bremore-castle-mews-drogheda-road-balbriggan-dublin/4032920

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/heathfield-heathfield-finglas-dublin-11/3450914

Maz2016

mariaalice wrote: »

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/elder-heath-elder-heath-kiltipper-road-dublin-24/2963029

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/bremore-castle-mews-bremore-castle-mews-drogheda-road-balbriggan-dublin/4032920

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/heathfield-heathfield-finglas-dublin-11/3450914

Those prices aren’t bad at all. And energy rating A1

thierry14

mariaalice wrote: »

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/elder-heath-elder-heath-kiltipper-road-dublin-24/2963029

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/bremore-castle-mews-bremore-castle-mews-drogheda-road-balbriggan-dublin/4032920

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/heathfield-heathfield-finglas-dublin-11/3450914

Some bargains alright in D15 on new builds

Rental yield is massive too, companies going up all over the place

If i was buying I would be looking there

janeysorcha

Thanks all. We’ve both been born & bread in working class areas on the south side, we both work on the south side too. We’re not looking for any kind of palace by no means, but it’s frustrating to think neither of us will probably never buy in the local area we grew up. It makes you think how young couples who might have grown up in in an area like Dublin 6W will ever be able to afford a property there?

mkdon

What areas are you looking for in particular? Anywhere in Dublin? Where can one see asking and sold price details online?

Eric Cartman

janeysorcha wrote: »

Thanks all. We’ve both been born & bread in working class areas on the south side, we both work on the south side too. We’re not looking for any kind of palace by no means, but it’s frustrating to think neither of us will probably never buy in the local area we grew up. It makes you think how young couples who might have grown up in in an area like Dublin 6W will ever be able to afford a property there?

They can't. either both halves of the couple become doctors/solicitors/consultants or they go to live in Ashbourne, celbridge, balbriggan, kilcock, wicklow etc...

janeysorcha

Dublin 12. For example, we went to view a 2 bed terraced house in Dublin 12. The same terraced house sold for 200K the previous year, the house sold for 290K this year and needed quite a bit of renovation, it didn’t even have a kitchen

fret_wimp2

that's the dublin property market, for better or worse.
nobody here will have an easy magic formula to allow you get a house where you want to the standard you want for the price you can afford.

but that's life. id love to live in D16 in a fully renovated A rated semi D with room for 2 cars.

that's not something I can afford so either dont buy or adjust my expectations.

start looking at properties you currently dismiss, in areas you wouldn't have considered or that don't have some very expensive feature you think you need.

eventually you will either see something in your price range you feel you can call home, or you wont.

it really boils down to what you can afford and finding something that makes you happy within that price range

December2012

Neither my husband or I bought in the areas we grew up in, they were just too expensive. Same with all of my friends. That’s just part of growing up in a nice part of Dublin - you don’t get to stay there without big bucks.

Peregrinus

janeysorcha wrote: »

Thanks all. We’ve both been born & bread in working class areas on the south side, we both work on the south side too. We’re not looking for any kind of palace by no means, but it’s frustrating to think neither of us will probably never buy in the local area we grew up. It makes you think how young couples who might have grown up in in an area like Dublin 6W will ever be able to afford a property there?

It's pretty standard for any city that experiences economic and population growth that young adults typically can't buy houses in the areas that they grew up in. If they can, that strongly points to the city being in decline or in recession.

In other words, this is perfectly normal. I'm not denying that there is a housing crisis in Ireland, but the perception of crisis is probably made worse if people have unrealistic expectations of what a normal property market looks like.

janeysorcha

The properties that I’ve been looking at have been well within reach 12 months ago. So it’s more a case of are my expectations unrealistic, or will the house prices fall once again in a couple of years?

Peregrinus

Except twelve months ago you weren't in a position to buy them. What changed? You got mortgage approval. So, perhaps, did others. Possibly there's not just more people with mortgage approval, but also mortgage approvals may be getting larger - they're normally a multiple of salary, so if earnings rise mortgage approvals get bigger. Which means, in established areas, there's more buyers with more money chasing the same supply of houses, which are the kind of conditions that result in price rises.

In times of economic growth, or even economic recovery, the population rises, and earnings rise, faster than the housing stock can be increased. And this effect is magnified if you're particularly interested in buying in the area you grew up in because, by definition, that's a settled, established area with limited space for the construction of new housing stock. So the city grows, new suburbs or dormitory communities develop, and the next generation buys its homes there.

This is a pain. I get that if you grew up in Dublin 12 you don't fancy living in Kilcock. But this kind of development in the housing market is pretty normal. There was a time when Dublin 12 was the edge of the known world, and people who grew up closer to town were horrified at having to move there. (Brendan Behan writes about his father's reaction when told that the Corporation was to house the Behan family in a new development; "Crumlin? They eat their dead out there!")

Will house prices fall in a couple of years? Possibly, if there's another slump. But notice that house prices are much slower to fall than they are to rise. People are very reluctant to sell their house for less than they think it's "worth", and what they think it's worth is heavily influenced by (a) what they paid for it, and (b) what they could probably have sold it for last year. So when the market turns down, this isn't reflected first of all in a big drop in prices, but in a big drop in volume; people who are minded to sell their houses don't, because they think they are not being offered enough. Only after the slowdown has continued for a while do expectations change, and prices start to drop.

December2012

janeysorcha wrote: »

The properties that I’ve been looking at have been well within reach 12 months ago. So it’s more a case of are my expectations unrealistic, or will the house prices fall once again in a couple of years?

You are being unrealistic. Stop looking at what things used to cost. What do they cost now? What can you afford?

If you don’t want to pay that, then don’t buy.

As more people qualify for mortgages, prices rise as credit is possible. Why didn’t you buy 12 months ago?

boris1234

Was in a similar position toyourself up to June this year. We were looking in a specific part of Crumlin/Kimmage for almost a year. Eventually got our place on the road we wanted. Paid more than what I originally thought we would get a place for as I kept thinking of what it would have cost 12 months ago. Anyway keep going. We got lucky as a house we bid on came back to us 2 months after we originally bid on it as the sale fell through. Got it for 20k less than our original highest bid.

Feel free to pm for any advice on specific areas etc.

Shadow_27

Have to agree with OP on "phantom" bids.

I thought all auctioneers here in Ireland were certified & therefore worked to a code of conduct? I recently bid on an apartment & this went to a bidding war. That's fine but not one of my bids was confirmed in writing & I get the feeling that the auctioneer had too much influence on who was going to get or not get the property rather than the individuals buying position being the deciding factor. How do I know also that I wasn't bidding against myself! For that reason I pulled out & took my interest no further.

My experience of auctioneers here where I am is not positive - not one has taken my details to inform me of new properties to the market, not one has financially qualified me whether I have the cash or not & there is a distinct attitude that because the market is buoyant again, that buyers do not need to be looked after. Shocking state of affairs here where it is the consumers who once again suffer.

GingerLily

Shadow_27 wrote: »

Have to agree with OP on "phantom" bids.

I thought all auctioneers here in Ireland were certified & therefore worked to a code of conduct? I recently bid on an apartment & this went to a bidding war. That's fine but not one of my bids was confirmed in writing & I get the feeling that the auctioneer had too much influence on who was going to get or not get the property rather than the individuals buying position being the deciding factor. How do I know also that I wasn't bidding against myself! For that reason I pulled out & took my interest no further.

My experience of auctioneers here where I am is not positive - not one has taken my details to inform me of new properties to the market, not one has financially qualified me whether I have the cash or not & there is a distinct attitude that because the market is buoyant again, that buyers do not need to be looked after. Shocking state of affairs here where it is the consumers who once again suffer.

The buyer isn't the customer for a second hand home - the seller is, that's who are employing them.

Interested Observer

Shadow_27 wrote: »

Have to agree with OP on "phantom" bids.

I thought all auctioneers here in Ireland were certified & therefore worked to a code of conduct? I recently bid on an apartment & this went to a bidding war. That's fine but not one of my bids was confirmed in writing & I get the feeling that the auctioneer had too much influence on who was going to get or not get the property rather than the individuals buying position being the deciding factor. How do I know also that I wasn't bidding against myself! For that reason I pulled out & took my interest no further.

My experience of auctioneers here where I am is not positive - not one has taken my details to inform me of new properties to the market, not one has financially qualified me whether I have the cash or not & there is a distinct attitude that because the market is buoyant again, that buyers do not need to be looked after. Shocking state of affairs here where it is the consumers who once again suffer.

By auctioneer here do you mean estate agent? Were you actually trying to buy at an auction or by private treaty?

The agent isn't there to look after the buyer though. As a buyer you're pretty much on your own, your solicitor should act in your interest but that's it. The agent is paid by the seller to get as much as possible on the house. Obviously nobody should condone phantom bids however.

Shadow_27

Sorry, I meant estate agent!

The property was via private treaty.

And as far as I understood, in many cases sellers fees were absorbed into the asking price of a property. That aside, I understand the estate agent acts for the sellers interests, however, without both, buyer & seller, there is nothing.

If I was a seller, frankly I would be disturbed with what I have experienced as a buyer from so called certified professionals. If the many are prepared to accept service like this, then nothing will improve.

Interested Observer

Shadow_27 wrote: »

Sorry, I meant estate agent!

The property was via private treaty.

And as far as I understood, in many cases sellers fees were absorbed into the asking price of a property. That aside, I understand the estate agent acts for the sellers interests, however, without both, buyer & seller, there is nothing.

If I was a seller, frankly I would be disturbed with what I have experienced as a buyer from so called certified professionals. If the many are prepared to accept service like this, then nothing will improve.

The seller will pay a percentage (I think it's 1%-ish) of the sale price of the house to the estate agent. They're still paid by the seller.

Shadow_27

I understand that so let's not labour that point.

My issue is a service issue where they are dealing with potential buyers of their sellers property, and, ethics - because there is a distinct lack of them in my experience. I'm not saying that is across the board, but in my locality, not one agent has been professional, and as a potential future seller myself, it's frightening to think I'd have to instruct one of these.

Graham

Shadow_27 wrote: »

I understand that so let's not labour that point.

My issue is a service issue where they are dealing with potential buyers of their sellers property, and, ethics - because there is a distinct lack of them in my experience. I'm not saying that is across the board, but in my locality, not one agent has been professional, and as a potential future seller myself, it's frightening to think I'd have to instruct one of these.

There are apparently at least 2 buyers for every property on the market at the moment. It's likely in some areas that figure is substantially higher.

The reality is, it's not really necessary for phantom bids. Read through the dozens of threads and newspaper articles that detail peoples experiences of being outbid on multiple properties.

mkdon

What is the best way to deal with phantom bids? Ask in writing for evidence of the offer. I feel the media are fueling this as it's in interest of auctioneers and sellers to jack up the prices


What have we learned from the boom?
@ all.


Estate agents or whatever u want to call them need to be certified and the buyer should be protected from phantom bidders


Not sure how this is done in other countries but this all seems wrong

Shadow_27

I'm not saying it happened to me - however, I just was not confident there was transparency in what is most peoples biggest financial commitment they will make.

When I go to auction, I fully expect to get outbid, it's a given. In my instance, I was not informed that there would be an auction style process on a private treaty property, had I been, I would have no gripes whatsoever.

Simple fact is I COULD have been bidding against myself & therefore that was enough for me not to proceed. In the UK, on private treaty properties, agents cannot disclose someone else's bid to another potential buyer. And if the agent here had valued the property correctly, why was it going €20k over the initial market price?!

Shadow_27

mkdon wrote: »

What is the best way to deal with phantom bids? Ask in writing for evidence of the offer. I feel the media are fueling this as it's in interest of auctioneers and sellers to jack up the prices


What have we learned from the boom?
@ all.


Estate agents or whatever u want to call them need to be certified and the buyer should be protected from phantom bidders


Not sure how this is done in other countries but this all seems wrong

Yes, if there's nothing to hide then there can be no issue with transparency. Surely for the sellers peace of mind, let alone the buyers - all offers should be confirmed in written form whether they are accepted or declined. What is to hide in that?!

Henbabani

mkdon wrote: »

What is the best way to deal with phantom bids? Ask in writing for evidence of the offer. I feel the media are fueling this as it's in interest of auctioneers and sellers to jack up the prices


What have we learned from the boom?
@ all.


Estate agents or whatever u want to call them need to be certified and the buyer should be protected from phantom bidders


Not sure how this is done in other countries but this all seems wrong

you're so right, i'm looking everyday on daft, searching for apartments to rent, everyday i see more and more places online for more than a week, prices are moderate and even in the facebook groups the ads are online for more and more days.
you can find 76 1BDR apartment or more to rent online and the number of rent properties all over ireland is more than 3,600.
people are no longer standing in the line to pay 1000E for double room in shared apartment, and threre's a lot of double bedrooms for couples in the range of 600-800 E.

Graham

Henbabani wrote: »

you're so right, i'm looking everyday on daft, searching for apartments to rent, everyday i see more and more places online for more than a week, prices are moderate and even in the facebook groups the ads are online for more and more days.
you can find 76 1BDR apartment or more to rent online and the number of rent properties all over ireland is more than 3,600.
people are no longer standing in the line to pay 1000E for double room in shared apartment, and threre's a lot of double bedrooms for couples in the range of 600-800 E.

Mod Note: Not a rental discussion. Please don't drag the thread off topic.

CruelCoin

janeysorcha wrote: »

Myself & my partner have been mortgage approved for a few months now. Our budget is approx 280,000 yet it seems we can’t afford anything anymore. We’ve been outbid on numerous houses starting at 210,000 - is it possible for young couples to ever afford a house any time soon?! Any advice / experience appreciated!

Plenty of scope 30 minutes down the road from any location you happen to be in.

You just can't afford a house where you'd like to be.