Paying a lump sum into a pension to lower 2017 tax

St1mpMeister

Hi all, I have no work pension. I turned 40 in October and had planned to start a pension in January 2018.

I would like, though, to put something in this year if it helps to get back some of the PAYE tax I paid in 2017.

Assume for arguments sake that my net income for 2017 was 60K.



Q1: Is it possible for me to open a pension before the end of the year, pay a lump sum into it, and claim a tax refund in 2018?

Q2: Assuming the lump sum is something like 15K, what tax do I get back?

Q3: As I only turned 40 in October, am I allowed to put the full 25% of my 2017 earnings into the pension?

Q4: How do I decide between pension providers? Are they all the same, what benefits do I look for when deciding on one over the other?

Henry Ford III

1/. Get proper advice.

2/. Get proper advice.

etc.

ANXIOUS

St1mpMeister wrote: »

Hi all, I have no work pension. I turned 40 in October and had planned to start a pension in January 2018.

I would like, though, to put something in this year if it helps to get back some of the PAYE tax I paid in 2017.

Assume for arguments sake that my net income for 2017 was 60K.



Q1: Is it possible for me to open a pension before the end of the year, pay a lump sum into it, and claim a tax refund in 2018?

Q2: Assuming the lump sum is something like 15K, what tax do I get back?

Q3: As I only turned 40 in October, am I allowed to put the full 25% of my 2017 earnings into the pension?

Q4: How do I decide between pension providers? Are they all the same, what benefits do I look for when deciding on one over the other?

Are you self employed or employed?

St1mpMeister

Henry Ford III wrote: »

1/. Get proper advice.

2/. Get proper advice.

etc.

That's fine, so these kinds of things aren't easily answerable?

I'll go Financial Advisor if it's really necessary, but I thought the questions were straightforward yes/no types.

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Are you self employed or employed?

Employed. Single. Paying PAYE. No dependants etc.

Heres Johnny

St1mpMeister wrote: »

Hi all, I have no work pension. I turned 40 in October and had planned to start a pension in January 2018.

I would like, though, to put something in this year if it helps to get back some of the PAYE tax I paid in 2017.

Assume for arguments sake that my net income for 2017 was 60K.



Q1: Is it possible for me to open a pension before the end of the year, pay a lump sum into it, and claim a tax refund in 2018?

Q2: Assuming the lump sum is something like 15K, what tax do I get back?

Q3: As I only turned 40 in October, am I allowed to put the full 25% of my 2017 earnings into the pension?

Q4: How do I decide between pension providers? Are they all the same, what benefits do I look for when deciding on one over the other?

While answering these, the advice to see an advisor holds true.

Q1 yes
Q2 if you earned 60k and are singly assessed and no other reliefs, 26k of it would be at 40% PAYE so you will get 40% of lump sum
Q3 Not 100% sure on this
Q4 Its hard. I'd go with the one that talks to you openly, honestly and uses laymans language. No jargon.

St1mpMeister

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Q2 if you earned 60k and are singly assessed and no other reliefs, 26k of it would be at 40% PAYE so you will get 40% of lump sum

Thanks, not too clear on this part though.

Are you saying I can put 26K into a pension? I thought it was only 25% of 60K max (15K)

californiabear

St1mpMeister wrote: »

Thanks, not too clear on this part though.

Are you saying I can put 26K into a pension? I thought it was only 25% of 60K max (15K)

I think this was in answer to your 2nd question about how much you would get back if you put 15K in - the answer is if you're paying tax at 40%, then you'd get 40% of the 15K back.

On your 1st question, I think you may have until October 2018 to make a pension payment and claim it against 2017 tax...but you'll need to check this with a pensions advisor or an accountant.

catrionanic

Afaik, the 25% applies to the year you turn 40. So 2017.

Henry Ford III

Heres Johnny wrote: »

While answering these, the advice to see an advisor holds true.

Q1 yes
Q2 if you earned 60k and are singly assessed and no other reliefs, 26k of it would be at 40% PAYE so you will get 40% of lump sum
Q3 Not 100% sure on this
Q4 Its hard. I'd go with the one that talks to you openly, honestly and uses laymans language. No jargon.

Simple English is a marketing issue. It's an unwise criteria for selection.

ANXIOUS

St1mpMeister wrote: »

Employed. Single. Paying PAYE. No dependants etc.

Have you asked your employer if they have a scheme that they'll contribute to?

If you reach a milestone age even for one day in a tax year you can pay the night amount. It's year attained age.

St1mpMeister

St1mpMeister wrote: »

Q2: Assuming the lump sum is something like 15K, what tax do I get back?

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Q2 if you earned 60k and are singly assessed and no other reliefs, 26k of it would be at 40% PAYE so you will get 40% of lump sum

St1mpMeister wrote: »

Thanks, not too clear on this part though.

Are you saying I can put 26K into a pension? I thought it was only 25% of 60K max (15K)

californiabear wrote: »

I think this was in answer to your 2nd question about how much you would get back if you put 15K in - the answer is if you're paying tax at 40%, then you'd get 40% of the 15K back.

Ah ok, my fault. My assumption is that I was limited to putting into 25% of my net earnings into a pension in order to qualify for the tax relief. But I was only assuming the 25% (15K) limit, and perhaps I was wrong.

So let me rephrase Q2 and break it up into two parts...

Q2.1 - What is the max amount I can pay into a pension next week in order to get maximum tax back for 2017 (assume the 60K net income figure)?

Q2.2 - Can I put 50K into a pension next week and then get 40% of that refunded to me next October 2018 (i.e. 20K)?

St1mpMeister

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Have you asked your employer if they have a scheme that they'll contribute to?

I've left the company this month as I'm going to be starting contracting (self-employed) in January, so I want a pension completely separate from work.

Heres Johnny

St1mpMeister wrote: »

St1mpMeister wrote: »

Q2: Assuming the lump sum is something like 15K, what tax do I get back?

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Q2 if you earned 60k and are singly assessed and no other reliefs, 26k of it would be at 40% PAYE so you will get 40% of lump sum

St1mpMeister wrote: »

Thanks, not too clear on this part though.

Are you saying I can put 26K into a pension? I thought it was only 25% of 60K max (15K)

californiabear wrote: »

I think this was in answer to your 2nd question about how much you would get back if you put 15K in - the answer is if you're paying tax at 40%, then you'd get 40% of the 15K back.

Ah ok, my fault. My assumption is that I was limited to putting into 25% of my net earnings into a pension in order to qualify for the tax relief. But I was only assuming the 25% (15K) limit, and perhaps I was wrong.

So let me rephrase Q2 and break it up into two parts...

Q2.1 - What is the max amount I can pay into a pension next week in order to get maximum tax back for 2017 (assume the 60K net income figure)?

Q2.2 - Can I put 50K into a pension next week and then get 40% of that refunded to me next October 2018 (i.e. 20K)?

2.1
For 2017 the max amount is 25% of 60k which is 15k based on your age assuming it's ok since you only went 40 this year.
This 15k will give you 6k tax relief so net cost of 9k.

2.2

No, it exceeds the amount allowed based on your age and income.

15k this year and 15k next year assuming your income stays at 60k

St1mpMeister

Heres Johnny wrote: »

2.1
For 2017 the max amount is 25% of 60k which is 15k based on your age assuming it's ok since you only went 40 this year.
This 15k will give you 6k tax relief so net cost of 9k.

2.2

No, it exceeds the amount allowed based on your age and income.

15k this year and 15k next year assuming your income stays at 60k

Perfect thanks.

Does being self-employed change anything regarding the pension-related tax reliefs I can get, or just same as before?

St1mpMeister

Also just so I know, what is the benefit of going to a Financial Advisor about this?

I know now what I can do, and how much I can invest, and I just need to decide on a pension company (which should be fairly straightforward... go for a large company with low fees and good performance)

I'm not going to be investing my money or anything, just dealing with the pension, so what value could a Financial Advisor bring to the table in my situation?

Heres Johnny

The person that you talk to in the pensions or life company or broker will be a financial advisor. People on boards always recommend an independent financial advisor but I doubt they would actually pay for it themselves. Always easier to spend someone else's money!!

You have the option of going direct to a tied agent or an employee of a life/pensions company or bank or going to a broker.

You have Irish life, new Ireland assurance, acorn life, Zurich, royal London to name a few. The likes of Mercer and Wallis are more for large group schemes.
And any number of brokers in any medium sized town in Ireland.

cute geoge

My accountant told me to take out pension to my lower tax bill ,i asked him was that what he did himself to lower his own tax bill ?
I let ye guess the answer!!!

coylemj

cute geoge wrote: »

My accountant told me to take out pension to my lower tax bill ,i asked him was that what he did himself to lower his own tax bill ?
I let ye guess the answer!!!

That accountant probably pays bugger all tax because he is a master of 'creative' accounting which means he has little or no incentive to pay into a pension scheme whereas if you are a PAYE taxpayer, you certainly do have such an incentive.

coylemj

St1mpMeister wrote: »

I'm not going to be investing my money or anything, just dealing with the pension, so what value could a Financial Advisor bring to the table in my situation?

He/she might help to steer you clear of the cowboys this poster proposes to deal with.....

Santa Claus wrote: »

So I've always had pension plans organised by my employers up until now but with current employer I have to arrange my own.
One thing that I noticed is that for the first 2 years commission is 50% of contributions and then the annual management charge is 0.5%

Is this reasonable for Occupational Pensions?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057811966

Heres Johnny

I know that type of commission structure alright and as someone in the industry I think I know who it is as not many do it anymore. I used to be an advisor for a large well known brokerage I work more in actuarial and underwriting on life insurance now for a financial institution.
This 50% charge over 2 years was the normal way nearly all pension companies used to charge. However, don't rule it out straight away as overly expensive. Yes its disappointing having a lot of charges at the start but think of it in real terms.

50% of premium for 1st 2 years at a monthly premium of 300 a month means you will pay 3600 in charges on 1st 2 years and 3600 goes into your fund.

After that you are into the 0.5% annual management charge AMC which is very low for the remainder of the pension. If you are young, this could be 30 years plus...

Compare this with a company that charges 0.75% to 1.5% of fund only every year for 30 years plus.

Yes, most of your first 2 years premiums actually go into your policy and it will be worth more after 2 years but you are paying the higher AMC for 30 years.

What I will say to you is the following.

If you are young (under 40) and see yourself staying in the same scheme until 60/65 and putting a decent few quid in, say 300 a month, I'd be quietly confident 50% over 2 years and then 0.5% AMC like you described would beat a 1% AMC fund without the upfront charges in first 2 years.

The ones with higher AMC get you MUCH more at the end, this one gets you at the start.

Over a long term, it's the AMC that forms the bulk of the charges. Remember the A stands for annual and you will pay this 30 or 40 times over depending on your age.

The bigger the fund, the younger you are, the longer you are in the fund, the lower AMC will be better for you.

It's a marathon, not a sprint in these things.

St1mpMeister

One more question...

Why is it so hard to get someone to recommend a few companies, the way you can get recommendations for who to get your mortgage from, or your insurance, or gas, etc etc ?

I haven't found many posts like "I went for X company to get my pension, as they have lowest fees/commission and solid performance"

Geuze

I recommend LA brokers for pension, but please note they won't give you any advice.

They are a low cost, execution-only service.

www.labrokers.ie

You choose the funds yourself.

Geuze

St1mpMeister wrote: »

I haven't found many posts like "I went for X company to get my pension, as they have lowest fees/commission and solid performance"

Going direct to a pensions firm, e.g. actual branch of Aviva / Zurich, etc. won't save you any fees.

St1mpMeister

Geuze wrote: »

Going direct to a pensions firm, e.g. actual branch of Aviva / Zurich, etc. won't save you any fees.

right, so all pension providers have the same fees?

I thought there were entry fees, commission, that would change depending if you went to Irish Life, PTSB, Zurich, etc

Henry Ford III

Tied agents, and going direct won't get you a "cheaper" pension. The claims that 50% allocation for 2 years is the norm are nonsense.

Charges vary enormously from the reasonable to the ridiculous. Acorn Life are very expensive.

Unless you know pensions and investments inside out (which is highly unlikely) there's huge value in proper independent advice. Going to LA Brokers will give you a cheap way in but you'll be in the dark about where to invest unless you're very savvy.

Remember all fees and commissions have to be disclosed, and like any business deals can be done.

Current provider offers 100% net allocation from the outset, and will pay 15% initial commission also which covers a good bit of the time involved for bigger premium business. The only proviso is that 5 years premiums must be paid.

Heres Johnny

St1mpMeister wrote: »

One more question...

Why is it so hard to get someone to recommend a few companies, the way you can get recommendations for who to get your mortgage from, or your insurance, or gas, etc etc ?

I haven't found many posts like "I went for X company to get my pension, as they have lowest fees/commission and solid performance"

Because every individual is different in the amount they want to put in, how long they want to pay into the fund, what age they want to retire, whether they want protection on it in the case of early death etc....

I would argue that there is no one size fits all best for mortgages and definitely not for insurance (both industries I have worked in). Some banks have better rates for different loan to value mortgages, bank A might be better than bank B for first time buyers with 10% deposit but the reverse true for trader uppers with 50% equity or a first time buyer with 20% deposit. I can give you contacts for pensions in Irish life, acorn life and new Ireland if you like but it's nothing you can't do yourself. All good advisors and take away the info from the meetings and you can compare. All good companies too with good fund returns over the long term which a pension is.

Pensions industry the same as banking an insurance. Sit down with a few companies, all of them if you have to and compare quotes and projections they give you. Don't do anything until you are happy. Ask questions and ask again if you don't understand. Don't be pressured. Let them know they are up against competition. Ask about charging structure, diversification of funds, historical returns, actively v passive management, choice of funds, who are the fund managers, penalties, flexibility and anything you might be unsure about.

If you want cheapest charges, go to the likes of L.A. brokers. No advice though. If you want an actively managed fund and ongoing advice and recommendations you will have to pay for it. Pensions, like any product or service, are not homogenous. They are not all the same.

If you want x,y,z you pay for all 3. If you want just x, you pay for just that.

St1mpMeister

Heres Johnny wrote: »

If you want cheapest charges, go to the likes of L.A. brokers.

Is there any risk in smaller operations like L.A. brokers going out of business before I reach retirement age, compares to a big name brand like Zurich Life?

Hypothetically, what happens to my pension fund if L.A brokers aren't around in 2047?

Henry Ford III

St1mpMeister wrote: »

Is there any risk in smaller operations like L.A. brokers going out of business before I reach retirement age, compares to a big name brand like Zurich Life?

Hypothetically, what happens to my pension fund if L.A brokers aren't around in 2047?

LA Brokers are low cost/no advice brokers, and nothing more.

They place business with insurers they hold an agency with. They don't invest or handle funds in any way.

Heres Johnny

You can use the likes of L.A. brokers if you had an idea of what funds you wanted to be in and your own thoughts on risks and volatilty.
I don't think you know enough yet and considering you said 2047 it's a 30 year investment horizon so take the month of December to sit down with a few companies and learn from each meeting. An hour spent with 3 or 4 advisors should increase your knowledge a lot. Which part of the country are you living in?

Geuze

St1mpMeister wrote: »

right, so all pension providers have the same fees?

I thought there were entry fees, commission, that would change depending if you went to Irish Life, PTSB, Zurich, etc

Different providers have different fees.

AND

different brokers can offer different fees on the same provider plan.

Example:

Zurich pension plan ABC

Can be sold through multiple channels:

• direct sale by Zurich staff, on commission
• tied agent
• broker
• discount broker

Geuze

St1mpMeister wrote: »

Is there any risk in smaller operations like L.A. brokers going out of business before I reach retirement age, compares to a big name brand like Zurich Life?

Hypothetically, what happens to my pension fund if L.A brokers aren't around in 2047?

Totally irrelevant.

The brokers simply set up your policy, and delivers business to the insurer.

Please be clear on the difference between brokers and insurers.