DCM 2017 Graduates: Onwards and upwards!

skyblue46

Kellygirl wrote: »

I have a couple of questions about the grads plans for both HM and Marathon.

Firstly, my main running days that I’m guaranteed to have time to run and fit in long runs are Wednesday and Saturday mornings. I tend to do my LSRs on Wednesday’s. I can’t run the day before either of these due to work and family commitments. However I can generally run Monday and Thursday nights so there would be approx 36 hours between runs as opposed to 24 - would that be ok or does it make it pointless to try follow the plan if I tweak it that much?

Secondly, I’m doing Killarney HM on July 28th - that’s 8 weeks after Cork and I have a holiday slap bang in the middle. I’m not worried about the distance as plenty mileage in my legs but I will need recovery after Cork and then won’t get much running on hols so do I do part of the Grads HM plan or maybe the base plan to keep me ticking over or just stick to what I have been doing pretty much? My goal for Killarney is 1:55 which should be achievable at current fitness if I pace it properly but I wouldn’t mind following some form of the grads plan in practice for DCM if that makes sense?

If I was you I'd drop into the grads plan for the half. It's a good way of testing if you like it, if the paces agree with you etc before stepping up to the marathon plan.

Kellygirl

skyblue46 wrote: »

If I was you I'd drop into the grads plan for the half. It's a good way of testing if you like it, if the paces agree with you etc before stepping up to the marathon plan.

That’s what I’d like to do - would it be ok to drop into it say at Week 8? I know I’d have missed out on the build up but hopefully the fact I have the mileage from the marathon training it would be ok?

skyblue46

Kellygirl wrote: »

That’s what I’d like to do - would it be ok to drop into it say at Week 8? I know I’d have missed out on the build up but hopefully the fact I have the mileage from the marathon training it would be ok?

Yes it would be fine to do that. One proviso...you aren't too experienced at sessions so when you start at them I think you should aim at the slower end of the range...if it says tempo is 5:10-5:22m/ km aim for 5:22 initially on these runs

Kellygirl

That is fine with me! Will be looking forward to doing them. Delighted to have a plan for after Cork now.

ariana`

skyblue46 wrote: »

I'm just going to use warm up, race and cooldown to replace the long runs on the weekends. If I do midweek races they will replace the session.

Last week, I replaced 2 x 12 mins at threshold off 4 mins recovery with park run at threshold (for me this was 25 minutes at threshold). I adjusted the session obviously as i did it as 1 long interval instead of 2 intervals with recovery. I guess going forward i/we really should try to stick more closely to the session in the plan or is what i did there ok? I did stick to the pace range for threshold. It seemed the ideal way to get a park run in and get the session done :cool:

ariana`

So K, tell me more about Killarney half? Is it one that sells out? And what's the course profile like? I want to sort out my HM PB before DCM, it's a bit neglected :rolleyes: I have Kinvara HM but I'm not feeling very well prepared for it, maybe because i'm loosely following a 5-10km plan and maybe because the long runs have been less long than i'd like! I seem to be developing a habit of maxing out at 90 mins (14-15km) and skipping weeks

Swashbuckler

ariana` wrote:

So K, tell me more about Killarney half? Is it one that sells out? And what's the course profile like? I want to sort out my HM PB before DCM, it's a bit neglected I have Kinvara HM but I'm not feeling very well prepared for it, maybe because i'm loosely following a 5-10km plan and maybe because the long runs have been less long than i'd like! I seem to be developing a habit of maxing out at 90 mins (14-15km) and skipping weeks

Would you consider Charleville. Fast and flat. Killarney half starts up in Molly's gap and lots of downhill for sure. Only downside is the extremely early start and waiting around up in molls Gap in what is usually very cold conditions.

ariana`

skyblue46 wrote: »

I'm just going to use warm up, race and cooldown to replace the long runs on the weekends. If I do midweek races they will replace the session.

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Would you consider Charleville. Fast and flat. Killarney half starts up in Molly's gap and lots of downhill for sure. Only downside is the extremely early start and waiting around up in molls Gap in what is usually very cold conditions.

Oh i didn't think of that when is Charleville on? Killarney is a bit of a trek but i was thinking we could make a family mini break out of it as it's such a nice part of the country.

Swashbuckler

Charleville is Sept 15th which may be a little late for you? Killarney is a beautiful spot in fairness.

Kellygirl

Yeah - Killarney is early. Have to be ready to get on the bus for 7am and 8:30 start. I’ll def be bringing disposable clothing! It’s supposed to a fab race though and so scenic. First half is downhill and roly after that I believe. Entry does close a couple of weeks before assuming it’s the same as last year. I was hanging on until the last minute waiting for go ahead from physio but missed the closing date then. Maybe look at accommodation in The Gleneagle as it finishes there and also the early start means you aren’t leaving hubby with the kids all day! We considered it but can’t go away that weekend so i’ll Just drive down very early with some friends.

Swashbuckler

If ye are considering it, there will be much cheaper places that the Gleneagles on Mucross road. Or even the self catering apartments in the Gleneagle are very good

Baby75

I was just wondering how do I figure out my MP for the midweek progression run in the base plan and how would you do it, easy pace for half and MP for the rest

skyblue46

Baby75 wrote: »

I was just wondering how do I figure out my MP for the midweek progression run in the base plan and how would you do it, easy pace for half and MP for the rest

I'd use the MP on the race paces page of runcoach as your pace. Progression run 20 mins easy, 20 easy/ moderate, 20 MP

Baby75

skyblue46 I'd use the MP on the race paces page of runcoach as your pace. Progression run 20 mins easy, 20 easy/ moderate, 20 MP

Thanks, S that helps a lot

Started the base plan tonight 45 mins easy extra easy, keeping to 7.48 to 8.22 km pace. It took me a few minutes to settle into it I kept checking my watch in case I had speeded up but got the hang of it quickly. I am looking forward to the progression run tomorrow

I walked my warm up and cool down I will build up to running that as well

The Black Oil

Great job from the mentor crew, so far - when's your book out?

Baby75

Got out for my Progression run tonight I think I managed to hit the right paces although the MP was hard we picked a hilly enough route and the first 1km of MP was uphill I had to stop for a few seconds to catch my breath but was grand after that Thanks for all your help skyblue

Kellygirl

Well executed N I thought looking at your Strava. Been a while since I did a progression run but I enjoyed the one or two I did.

Tapering here and disgusted I only have 4 miles to do tomorrow. Fab weather and would love to be doing a nice long run. Going to come home and weed the garden for a few hours after my run. Can’t quite believe the marathon is Sunday week. Weather looking warm which I could do without!!

Baby75

Thanks, Karen I am a little chuffed its the furthest I have ran in 5 weeks
I also did 45 minutes S&C I will be sore tomorrow

enjoy your run tomorrow taper time is no fun LOL

skyblue46

Baby75 wrote: »

Got out for my Progression run tonight I think I managed to hit the right paces although the MP was hard we picked a hilly enough route and the first 1km of MP was uphill I had to stop for a few seconds to catch my breath but was grand after that Thanks for all your help skyblue

No bother, you did very well. A perfectly executed run that is worth a lot more than the hour it took.

ariana`

Question for anyone who'd like to weigh in.

What's people's thoughts on racing a 5k 4 days before a HM?

The 5k isn't a PB course BUT at the same time i don't want to be someone who shies away from running a race just because it's an unfavourable course for pb, i could still walk away very happy with a course PB and/or knowing i ran well :cool:

The HM is definitely higher priority of the two although i haven't been training specifically for the HM (it's the race that was cancelled last March).

So race both? Skip the 5k? Run the 5k at Threshold pace? Run the 5k at Tempo/HM pace?

skyblue46

Quick question on the grads plan. In the latter stages of the 5/10k plan there are some 5/4/3/2/1 sessions with equal recovery. Does that mean 5 mins recovery after the 5, 4 mins after the 4 etc... Or to pick a random recovery like 90 seconds and do it between each interval?

Safiri

skyblue46 wrote: »

Quick question on the grads plan. In the latter stages of the 5/10k plan there are some 5/4/3/2/1 sessions with equal recovery. Does that mean 5 mins recovery after the 5, 4 mins after the 4 etc... Or to pick a random recovery like 90 seconds and do it between each interval?

Sorry for the late reply. Yoi got it the first time. 5 min on/5min off, 4 min on/4 min on etc

Safiri

ariana` wrote: »

Question for anyone who'd like to weigh in.

What's people's thoughts on racing a 5k 4 days before a HM?

The 5k isn't a PB course BUT at the same time i don't want to be someone who shies away from running a race just because it's an unfavourable course for pb, i could still walk away very happy with a course PB and/or knowing i ran well :cool:

The HM is definitely higher priority of the two although i haven't been training specifically for the HM (it's the race that was cancelled last March).

So race both? Skip the 5k? Run the 5k at Threshold pace? Run the 5k at Tempo/HM pace?

Skip the 5k if the HM is priority. It's too close to the race where it would have a knock on effect. Wouldn't do a tempo either, usually the hardest session I'd do on HM race week is 3x1m @tempo which is a breeze. Wouldn't do any really hard sessions the week of a half

Kellygirl

Kellygirl wrote: »

I have a couple of questions about the grads plans for both HM and Marathon.

Firstly, my main running days that I’m guaranteed to have time to run and fit in long runs are Wednesday and Saturday mornings. I tend to do my LSRs on Wednesday’s. I can’t run the day before either of these due to work and family commitments. However I can generally run Monday and Thursday nights so there would be approx 36 hours between runs as opposed to 24 - would that be ok or does it make it pointless to try follow the plan if I tweak it that much?

Secondly, I’m doing Killarney HM on July 28th - that’s 8 weeks after Cork and I have a holiday slap bang in the middle. I’m not worried about the distance as plenty mileage in my legs but I will need recovery after Cork and then won’t get much running on hols so do I do part of the Grads HM plan or maybe the base plan to keep me ticking over or just stick to what I have been doing pretty much? My goal for Killarney is 1:55 which should be achievable at current fitness if I pace it properly but I wouldn’t mind following some form of the grads plan in practice for DCM if that makes sense?

Safari, would you be able to answer the first question above by any chance please? I asked last week but post has probably got lost in discussions at this stage.

Safiri

Kellygirl wrote: »

Safari, would you be able to answer the first question above by any chance please? I asked last week but post has probably got lost in discussions at this stage.

Will get around to it tomorrow KG. Need to have a look at the plan and I was a wedding yesterday so not in the greatest state today.

Kellygirl

Safiri wrote: »

Will get around to it tomorrow KG. Need to have a look at the plan and I was a wedding yesterday so not in the greatest state today.

Thanks Safari. Appreciate it. Hope the head is ok

ariana`

Safiri wrote: »

Skip the 5k if the HM is priority. It's too close to the race where it would have a knock on effect. Wouldn't do a tempo either, usually the hardest session I'd do on HM race week is 3x1m @tempo which is a breeze. Wouldn't do any really hard sessions the week of a half

Thanks for the reply, i appreciate it. I'll be skipping the 5k. Legs are bunched today anyhow, it'll be short easy runs this week with maybe a handful of strides on one of the days.

Safiri

Kellygirl wrote: »

Thanks Safari. Appreciate it. Hope the head is ok

I'm really sorry I haven't got back to you yet KG:o. Promise I will in the next day or two but just wanted to wish you all the best this weekend. Give it socks and enjoy.

Kellygirl

Safiri wrote: »

I'm really sorry I haven't got back to you yet KG:o. Promise I will in the next day or two but just wanted to wish you all the best this weekend. Give it socks and enjoy.

No worries at all Safari and thanks for the good luck wishes. Just setting my alarm now for 6am.

ariana`

Skyblue asked a question in the Marathon Improvers thread which got me thinking about my own DCM training plan and more specifically training paces! I intend on following the Grads plan and using the RunFastCoach calculator and herein lies the question. My 5k time gives me training paces which i feel i am able to train at but it projects a marathon time of 3:46 which is well beyond me. I assume by training at those paces then i am effectively training for an (unrealistic) marathon time of 3:46?

My 10m & HM times project marathon times of 3:59 and 4:01 respectively which are a bit more realistic. So would i be better uses the paces based on one of these times.

To be honest i think i will be targeting 4:10 at best :cool:

OOnegative

ariana` wrote: »

Skyblue asked a question in the Marathon Improvers thread which got me thinking about my own DCM training plan and more specifically training paces! I intend on following the Grads plan and using the RunFastCoach calculator and herein lies the question. My 5k time gives me training paces which i feel i am able to train at but it projects a marathon time of 3:46 which is well beyond me. I assume by training at those paces then i am effectively training for an (unrealistic) marathon time of 3:46?

My 10m & HM times project marathon times of 3:59 and 4:01 respectively which are a bit more realistic. So would i be better uses the paces based on one of these times.

To be honest i think i will be targeting 4:10 at best :cool:

I would concentrate more on what your 10m & Half time project than what your 5k predicts. Most of us drop off predictions wise as the distance gets longer myself included. Try using the VDOT or McMillan calculators for training paces, they are the ones most reliably used.

Testosterscone

ariana` wrote: »

Skyblue asked a question in the Marathon Improvers thread which got me thinking about my own DCM training plan and more specifically training paces! I intend on following the Grads plan and using the RunFastCoach calculator and herein lies the question. My 5k time gives me training paces which i feel i am able to train at but it projects a marathon time of 3:46 which is well beyond me. I assume by training at those paces then i am effectively training for an (unrealistic) marathon time of 3:46?

My 10m & HM times project marathon times of 3:59 and 4:01 respectively which are a bit more realistic. So would i be better uses the paces based on one of these times.

To be honest i think i will be targeting 4:10 at best :cool:

This is where a bit of subjectivity can come in.

Calculators are not hard and fast rules but more a guideline.

Good advice would be to put in all your PB's across all distances and see what they indicate as an average. From here you will start to see a trend (if lacking endurance you will see the times slow as you go up in PB's) if this happens a more conservative goal might be needed and scale pace back however for the likes of the 3x15 tempo etc you won't be hitting cardiac drift that you would in latter stages of the marathon and as you are not hitting same effort levels so a little bit of aggression might be okay (a shade quicker than you plan on the day) for the likes of the 75 min tempo however this is more about dialing in pace and the effort will increase with the duration

So to sum up perhaps on the likes of the Wednesday runs the faster end of paces (3.50 pace) with the Sunday progressions and Tempos aiming for about 4.05 pace.

Testosterscone

Kellygirl wrote: »

I have a couple of questions about the grads plans for both HM and Marathon.

Firstly, my main running days that I’m guaranteed to have time to run and fit in long runs are Wednesday and Saturday mornings. I tend to do my LSRs on Wednesday’s. I can’t run the day before either of these due to work and family commitments. However I can generally run Monday and Thursday nights so there would be approx 36 hours between runs as opposed to 24 - would that be ok or does it make it pointless to try follow the plan if I tweak it that much?

Secondly, I’m doing Killarney HM on July 28th - that’s 8 weeks after Cork and I have a holiday slap bang in the middle. I’m not worried about the distance as plenty mileage in my legs but I will need recovery after Cork and then won’t get much running on hols so do I do part of the Grads HM plan or maybe the base plan to keep me ticking over or just stick to what I have been doing pretty much? My goal for Killarney is 1:55 which should be achievable at current fitness if I pace it properly but I wouldn’t mind following some form of the grads plan in practice for DCM if that makes sense?

I would say even with 36 hours between you will be fine to continue. The extra recovery might afford you to be a (very small) bit more aggressive with paces on sessions etc.

If you are just after the training of Cork then no harm to do the base plan. While this is a pre requisite to the training plans it is also decent training in itself and touches on different paces without being overly taxing. You still get decent aerobic training to so can compliment your training from the last block

Kellygirl

Testosterscone wrote: »

I would say even with 36 hours between you will be fine to continue. The extra recovery might afford you to be a (very small) bit more aggressive with paces on sessions etc.

If you are just after the training of Cork then no harm to do the base plan. While this is a pre requisite to the training plans it is also decent training in itself and touches on different paces without being overly taxing. You still get decent aerobic training to so can compliment your training from the last block

Thanks Testosterscone. That’s great to get that reassurance.

Happy to do the Base Plan too. Looking forward to getting started again!!