DCM 2017 Graduates: Onwards and upwards!

Kellygirl

Thanks El Caballo. I won’t be stupid about it and my priority now is to get sorted again and stop messing around and get training properly. Looking forward to my physio appointment as i’ll know where I am for sure then. Not overly worried as my pelvis has a habit of going out of line and starting to pull muscles in one of my legs then. Once I get that fixed i’ll be sorted again assuming that’s what’s going on again.

ariana`

I'm not sure how much i'll be checking this forum over the next few days while the normal craziness of everyday life turns to the manic craziness of Christmas so i just want to come on and say i hope you all have a wonderful Christmas. Thanks to everyone for all the advice, support and encouragement through our DCM journey this year and beyond. I for one am excited about what all of our running futures hold for us

The Black Oil

Merry Christmas folks. Great work through the year. If you are on cooking duty this weekend these stuffing balls are great. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056772901

Always good to keep up the training, like our friend here.

https://twitter.com/wigwamholidays/status/942770968354873344

quickbeam

Anyone going to Waterstown Parkrun on Christmas Day?

Wubble Wubble

quickbeam wrote: »

Anyone going to Waterstown Parkrun on Christmas Day?

I am, if I have the time. Bear in mind that it's a lot different to Hartstown. A nice "gentle incline" to finish off

quickbeam

Oh, I've no ambitions to do a PB or anything. But a good chance to start my Parkrun tourism, and get out for my usual Monday run. Might see you there!

clickerquicklic

Hope everyone's keeping well and injury free , I see a few of you on Strava flying along well done! How's everyone getting on ?
I'm really enjoying the running off plan and probably logging a similar amount of mileage I was mid marathon training.

I try get out for an hour a day these days and do whatever comes to mind ,I absolutely love running now couldn't imagine it not been part of my life , any day the kids are stressing you out or work is crap a run just makes things better. I'm starting to feel like a proper runner now and it's pretty cool , interestingly I reckon I could take down any of my Pb's now but for some strange reason I have no inclination , anyone else feel like this? I seem to be less interested in times and more interested in running for enjoyment.

Thanks to all the contributors who made this feeling possible and helped me go from a hobby jogger to runner.

Baby75

clickerquicklic all going good here still plodding away getting out running inbetween stuffing my face with all the nice food lol but that stops today I'm thinking about what events I would like to do this year. I feel the same about my PB keep meaning to try a 5km to see where I am now but will stick with the plan and have the Charlie Curran I could do at the end of January.

Blackoil I missed that post and those stuffing balls look so yummy I'm going to try them for new years

RolandDeschain

I have been ticking over and getting a few runs in over the Christmas period clickerquicklic. Only missed one run due to a really (really) bad hangover!

Hoping to kick on a bit next week.

Baby75

Happy New Year everyone

El Caballo

+1

Happy new year y'all:)

Kellygirl

Happy New Year All. Here’s to a brilliant year of injury free running and hitting all our goals.

ariana`

Happy new year one and all! Let's make it a good one

Kellygirl

Anyone joining the 1000 mile goal thread? I reckon I might try for it this year again. Wasn’t part of the thread last year but I think it would be a good incentive.

Going out tonight to do 8km. Looking forward to it.

skyblue46

Kellygirl wrote: »

Anyone joining the 1000 mile goal thread? I reckon I might try for it this year again. Wasn’t part of the thread last year but I think it would be a good incentive.

Going out tonight to do 8km. Looking forward to it.

I put my name down on the spreadsheet today. Two park runs today were a nice start to it.

Enjoy your run later.

quickbeam

Kellygirl wrote: »

Anyone joining the 1000 mile goal thread? I reckon I might try for it this year again. Wasn’t part of the thread last year but I think it would be a good incentive.

Going out tonight to do 8km. Looking forward to it.

Didn't know about it, so thanks for the heads up. Just signed up.

Kellygirl

Are there other recommended Marathon training plans other than the one at the start of this thread?

I kind of like running to distance rather than time as I often have people join me on long runs for the last stages so I plan my route to meet them at whatever distance they want to do with me if you know what I mean.

I’d like to look at a few plans and choose one - I really liked the Boards novices plan in terms of distances so something like that even though I know I need to start paying attention to pace.

Also, ‘if’ I decided to try and go for a 4 hour marathon in Cork - Dublin was 4:20 but loads of energy left at the end - do I build up to training at that pace or do it from day 1 or training on marathon pace days?

Thanks in advance.

Kellygirl

quickbeam wrote: »

Didn't know about it, so thanks for the heads up. Just signed up.

I haven’t had time lately to look at anything except a few training logs so only spotting things now!

skyblue46

Kellygirl wrote: »

Are there other recommended Marathon training plans other than the one at the start of this thread?

I kind of like running to distance rather than time as I often have people join me on long runs for the last stages so I plan my route to meet them at whatever distance they want to do with me if you know what I mean.

I’d like to look at a few plans and choose one - I really liked the Boards novices plan in terms of distances so something like that even though I know I need to start paying attention to pace.

Also, ‘if’ I decided to try and go for a 4 hour marathon in Cork - Dublin was 4:20 but loads of energy left at the end - do I build up to training at that pace or do it from day 1 or training on marathon pace days? [\QUOTE]

I'm sure El C will help out here but I'd think you train to present fitness levels rather than aspirational goals. Use the calculator for paces and do a race or two to confirm improved fitness levels, then adjust training paces accordingly.

Hal Higdons plans are distance based but I can't vouch for the quality of the plans....nor have I reason to doubt them. Again someone who knows more might jump in here...

Kellygirl

skyblue46 wrote: »

I'm sure El C will help out here but I'd think you train to present fitness levels rather than aspirational goals. Use the calculator for paces and do a race or two to confirm improved fitness levels, then adjust training paces accordingly.

Hal Higdons plans are distance based but I can't vouch for the quality of the plans....nor have I reason to doubt them. Again someone who knows more might jump in here...

Thanks SB. Yeah, Hal Higdon are the only ones I know of actually but I’ve seen people mention other ones on various threads but not sure where they get them from. I’ve heard ASICS recommended too so going to look at that too.

Baby75

Kellygirl wrote: »

Anyone joining the 1000 mile goal thread? I reckon I might try for it this year again. Wasn’t part of the thread last year but I think it would be a good incentive.

Going out tonight to do 8km. Looking forward to it.

Yep I joined it yesterday, I have not got out for my run today my tummy is bad and my tablets are not easing it dam Christmas food :cool:

But I am back to my club session tomorrow night and will go along for the speed session on Wednesday

On aiming for a time, I would use Mcmillan calculator put in my goal time and see what pace I need to run it in. Then, as far as I know, using a current race PB get your current paces for training follow a marathon training plan using the speed sessions to get your body used to running your goal race pace and adjusting as you progress. I hope I have that right I am sure someone else with more knowledge knows better.

El Caballo

Kellygirl wrote: »

Are there other recommended Marathon training plans other than the one at the start of this thread?

I kind of like running to distance rather than time as I often have people join me on long runs for the last stages so I plan my route to meet them at whatever distance they want to do with me if you know what I mean.

I’d like to look at a few plans and choose one - I really liked the Boards novices plan in terms of distances so something like that even though I know I need to start paying attention to pace.

Also, ‘if’ I decided to try and go for a 4 hour marathon in Cork - Dublin was 4:20 but loads of energy left at the end - do I build up to training at that pace or do it from day 1 or training on marathon pace days?

Thanks in advance.

SB is spot on in saying that you should train to current fitness and not goal pace. When you start a plan, goal fitness is usually a few months down the line so can cause you to over reach if trying to hit it when you are not yet in shape to do so. It can make sessions and workouts more intense than they should be at that stage. You want fitness to come to you, not to be forcing it.

If you like the boards plan, why not stick with it again? I personally wouldn't be a big fan of Hal higdon plans if you have already done a plan designed towards more experienced runners like the boards plan is, it's a step up from Hal Higdon. From what I've seen of the ASICS plan, it wouldn't be a plan I would recommend, things like back to back weekends of 20+ mile runs at marathon pace stick out which are hugely over the top imo. To give you perspective on that, the very best athletes in the world won't even approach that distance at that intensity once in a training cycle. It's definitely one to avoid imo. It just doesn't make any sense when I look at it.

skyblue46

El Caballo wrote: »

SB is spot on in saying that you should train to current fitness and not goal pace. When you start a plan, goal fitness is usually a few months down the line so can cause you to over reach if trying to hit it when you are not yet in shape to do so. It can make sessions and workouts more intense than they should be at that stage. You want fitness to come to you, not to be forcing it.

If you like the boards plan, why not stick with it again? I personally wouldn't be a big fan of Hal higdon plans if you have already done a plan designed towards more experienced runners like the boards plan is, it's a step up from Hal Higdon. From what I've seen of the ASICS plan, it wouldn't be a plan I would recommend, things like back to back weekends of 20+ mile runs at marathon pace stick out which are hugely over the top imo. To give you perspective on that, the very best athletes in the world won't even approach that distance at that intensity once in a training cycle. It's definitely one to avoid imo. It just doesn't make any sense when I look at it.

My guess here is that most people think the easy and very easy paces are too slow and that they can do easy runs faster. I was one of those people. Now 4 weeks into the plan I totally see it's merits. The easy runs leave you fresh for sessions and in turn those paces don't ask you to kill yourself after sessions. I know it's only 4 weeks I have done but I'm a disciple!

Baby75

skyblue46 wrote: »

My guess here is that most people think the easy and very easy paces are too slow and that they can do easy runs faster. I was one of those people. Now 4 weeks into the plan I totally see it's merits. The easy runs leave you fresh for sessions and in turn those paces don't ask you to kill yourself after sessions. I know it's only 4 weeks I have done but I'm a disciple!

could not agree more S

skyblue46

Baby75 wrote: »

could not agree more S

I'm starting to think I might be a genius!

El Caballo

skyblue46 wrote: »

My guess here is that most people think the easy and very easy paces are too slow and that they can do easy runs faster. I was one of those people. Now 4 weeks into the plan I totally see it's merits. The easy runs leave you fresh for sessions and in turn those paces don't ask you to kill yourself after sessions. I know it's only 4 weeks I have done but I'm a disciple!

Maith thú skyblue:).

I was the very same only it took me the bones of 3 years to finally get it down fully even after I'd scaled it back after the first year of running every run into the ground. It wasn't until I put a HR monitor on that I realised, I couldn't believe how high my HR was at what I thought easy pace was. This year my runs were around 8:30-8:40 pace and I often got passed out by people who were running 30 minutes behind me in half marathons.

Even though my volume and easy pace was well down on other years, I'm running faster now and I generally put that down to the consistency I've gained in due part because of it. It doesn't feel like as big a step out the front door anymore as the pressure to "perform" on easy days is gone, my chronic calf problems have eased off and I generally just enjoy running more. It also opens the option to run more miles as I'm not as tired so should be able to run more and to quote a really famous New Zealand coach called Arthur Lydiard "Miles make champions"

skyblue46

El Caballo wrote: »

Maith thú skyblue:).

I was the very same only it took me the bones of 3 years to finally get it down fully even after I'd scaled it back after the first year of running every run into the ground. It wasn't until I put a HR monitor on that I realised, I couldn't believe how high my HR was at what I thought easy pace was. This year my runs were around 8:30-8:40 pace and I often got passed out by people who were running 30 minutes behind me in half marathons.

Even though my volume and easy pace was well down on other years, I'm running faster now and I generally put that down to the consistency I've gained in due part because of it. It doesn't feel like as big a step out the front door anymore as the pressure to "perform" on easy days is gone, my chronic calf problems have eased off and I generally just enjoy running more. It also opens the option to run more miles as I'm not as tired so should be able to run more and to quote a really famous New Zealand coach called Arthur Lydiard "Miles make champions"

Age brings wisdom!! To be honest I love the idea of the plan especially as a step towards the marathon plan. My beloved ran 3:45 in DCM which has her a good for age qualification into the majors. I'd love to join her and reckon these plans are my best bet.

Kellygirl

All that makes for very interesting reading. Just as I was out running there, I was thinking at one stage that training for Dublin I ran my long runs at more or less the pace I did on the day. I def got faster in the second half alright though. I do find it hard to understand how you are supposed to run your LSRs slower but then suddenly up the pace on the day and keep the pace up. Yet doing the slower pace is obviously what is working for people here so I need to try it!

El C - sticking to the Boards plan would actually suit me. I liked it - I just wondered was I ‘supposed’ to graduate to another.

El Caballo

Kellygirl wrote: »

All that makes for very interesting reading. Just as I was out running there, I was thinking at one stage that training for Dublin I ran my long runs at more or less the pace I did on the day. I def got faster in the second half alright though. I do find it hard to understand how you are supposed to run your LSRs slower but then suddenly up the pace on the day and keep the pace up. Yet doing the slower pace is obviously what is working for people here so I need to try it!

El C - sticking to the Boards plan would actually suit me. I liked it - I just wondered was I ‘supposed’ to graduate to another.

It's definitely counterintuitive which is why pretty much every runner has struggled to come to terms with it when they started.

A really good metaphor for this is to think of training like a tube of toothpaste, if you squeeze it from the middle, a lot gets left behind. The idea with running easy is to squeeze it from the bottom thus raising your level the whole way. If you get faster at running easy, it has the knock on effect of improving your marathon pace, half pace and 10k etc. It pushes your fitness level up from the bottom. It also takes less toll on your body so you can run better workouts and run more if you want.

Believe it or not, weekly mileage is a much better predictor of performance than the intensity you run it at. That's not to say that some higher intensity isn't important but for where we are now, I think getting to grips with lower intensity is more important.

I think I posted this already but just in case I didn't, here it is again.

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2006/09/wejo-speaks-why-i-sucked-in-college/

Now, I know this guy is rocket fast but what he says in this thread is relevant to everyone at every level and the improvements he made were huge, it's pure gold and something every runner should read and understand.

This guy was running 4:30 per mile for 10k but running 7:00 minute miles as an easy pace. There's really nothing I can say to add on to it as I wouldn't do it justice.

Kellygirl

Just finished reading all that. Thanks El C. It does make sense when I’m reading it.

Lazare

Lazare wrote: »

All going well I'm planning an early start tomorrow. Starting my 8 week plan for Raheny. Incorporating the McMillan 10k workouts into it. First one is 6x 1m at 10k pace with 3 to 4 mins recovery. As I'm a metric head I'm going to adjust it slightly to 6x 1.6k and 400m recovery. Will be easier to keep track of that way I think, always finishing on the .6.

Need to be on the road no later than 5:45am to make it work timewise.

Leabaland shortly so.

So. Ran that session that morning then had to go out that night for a work thing. A supplier from The Netherlands was over to bring me and my boss out on the town. Worked the next day with a banging hangover which developed into a serious case of the manflu.

Seriously though, I normally kick headcolds after a day or so but this went on and on. Abandoned parkrun, the first Saturday not running in 8 months figuring it would clear up in a day or two and I could get back into it. Went into the chest then and floored me. Ran parkrun the following week, 10 days off and coughed my lungs up. Ugh. Chest infection.

Course of antibiotics* later and I'm finally rid of it. Raheny plan is out the window sadly, December has been scratched.

I'll do three weeks of good running with a week of taper and hopefully pb but meh, it is what it is.

I'm thinking now of targeting a 10k in early April and then Dunshaughlin in June before settling back into the beast.

*You were right Sean

clickerquicklic

El Caballo wrote: »

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2006/09/wejo-speaks-why-i-sucked-in-college/

.

This is the best things I've read about running. Thanks El C.

I get it totally , I am only starting to come around to that way of thinking. I have been trying to run comfortable lately at an uncomfortable pace instead of just trying to get from A to B in the quickest possible time. When I run intervals it used to be about just putting a pain face on horrible form and diving at the line , the last couple of weeks I've really been concentrating on form and mid interval doing body checks , arms relaxed , face relaxed , high cadence , driving off back foot , back straight , landing in centre of body.

It's what I've been saying to people i'm not necessarily faster than 6 months ago but I feel stronger and more in control , I really get it run faster not harder . I need to read that link often so I've bookmarked it , I don't really run fast on my easy days but am certainly guilty of trying to beat the workout on hard days.

Thanks El C really good info.

Kellygirl

My main issue is running according to how I feel on the day - there are days when I feel tired and head out and suddenly i’m flying along and then have a pb on that route. I know i’m doing it and love the feeling at the end. That’s been ok for the last while as haven’t really been training for anything in particular but I do like following plans at the same time and I think it’s interesting what the pace calculator has given. My only issue is running with other people and they won’t want to slow right down but i’ll see how it goes. They aren’t training for anything in particular generally but I do love the company.

The Black Oil

Happy new year folks. I look forward to all the advice you'll be giving to the 2018 novices.

skyblue46

The Black Oil wrote: »

Happy new year folks. I look forward to all the advice you'll be giving to the 2018 novices.

The advice is simple....stick to the plan and run the first 10k ultra conservatively, the next 25k very conservatively, then run like fook!

The Black Oil

Bit early for that, first they have to register a place for it.

skyblue46

Quick, or not so quick, question for El C. As you may have noticed the paces on the calculator have exercised quite a few minds. In other parts of cyber space our graduates are still struggling to come to terms with 'slowing down'. People doing 29 minute 5k parkruns are perplexed to see that their very easy runs should be done at 14m per mile...slower than a brisk walk. This filters through most paces and the consensus is that they can't run that slowly.

In trying to make sense of it I have suggested that the paces really only apply to the plan. If someone is not doing sessions then they don't have the same need for recovery? If they are running alternate days then the rest days are the recovery and they can run tempo or moderate easy on other days? Is it simply not asking the body to push hard day after day? On the other hand if someone is running 5/6/7 days a week, sessions included, then it is more important that they pay heed to suggested very easy and easy paces?

skyblue46

The Black Oil wrote: »

Bit early for that, first they have to register a place for it.

Oh yeah, I forgot how much us novices needed to be guided by the hand! :pac:

El Caballo

skyblue46 wrote: »

Quick, or not so quick, question for El C. As you may have noticed the paces on the calculator have exercised quite a few minds. In other parts of cyber space our graduates are still struggling to come to terms with 'slowing down'. People doing 29 minute 5k parkruns are perplexed to see that their very easy runs should be done at 14m per mile...slower than a brisk walk. This filters through most paces and the consensus is that they can't run that slowly.

In trying to make sense of it I have suggested that the paces really only apply to the plan. If someone is not doing sessions then they don't have the same need for recovery? If they are running alternate days then the rest days are the recovery and they can run tempo or moderate easy on other days? Is it simply not asking the body to push hard day after day? On the other hand if someone is running 5/6/7 days a week, sessions included, then it is more important that they pay heed to suggested very easy and easy paces?

Interesting q's. First of all, I want to say that if anyone has any questions and I mean anthing, don't hesitate to ask. It's what I'm here for and although I might come across as bit blunt, I'm really a big ol softy at heart.

There's definitely a lot of merit in those questions and it's probably something I should have thought/covered already. The simple answer is that all of those will effect easy pace and you there will also be a tipping point depending on how fast a runner is where the calculator formula loses relavancy as a guidline. There's a lot to cover there so I'll try and go a little more detail tomorrow when I have a bit more time and not trying to type on my phone:)

skyblue46

As it's question time I'll add another. What part does recovery play in intervals. For example I have a session on the plan for Saturday. It's 15 mins tempo, 4 mins rest, 10 mins threshold. As on Monday I could do a Parkrun with 3k tempo and 2k threshold or I could stop on course for my 4 minutes rest and then continue. Which offers the most training benefit. Is it just about effort and heart rate or is there something to be gained by starting to run again after the body has started to switch off?

Damo 2k9

skyblue46 wrote: »

As it's question time I'll add another. What part does recovery play in intervals. For example I have a session on the plan for Saturday. It's 15 mins tempo, 4 mins rest, 10 mins threshold. As on Monday I could do a Parkrun with 3k tempo and 2k threshold or I could stop on course for my 4 minutes rest and then continue. Which offers the most training benefit. Is it just about effort and heart rate or is there something to be gained by starting to run again after the body has started to switch off?

Its something that I was asking about a couple weeks back in my log I think it was. When doing intervals I would always stop for my rest instead of just a light recovery jog, started doing that last week and each rep seems a lot easier to start again, rather then starting from being stationary. Not sure how different itll be with that type of session tho!

Swashbuckler

skyblue46 wrote:

As it's question time I'll add another. What part does recovery play in intervals. For example I have a session on the plan for Saturday. It's 15 mins tempo, 4 mins rest, 10 mins threshold. As on Monday I could do a Parkrun with 3k tempo and 2k threshold or I could stop on course for my 4 minutes rest and then continue. Which offers the most training benefit. Is it just about effort and heart rate or is there something to be gained by starting to run again after the body has started to switch off?

As always ElC will give a detailed answer. My guess is it's to do with the stress. There's a reason these sessions are split with recoveries. For example if someone is training for a 5k ideally you would like to do a session training at the race pace for the full 5k but that's too much stress on the body. So it's broken into intervals with recoveries to reduce the overall stress. If you don't have the four minutes recovery between your tempo and threshold your essentially stressing your body continuously for 5k. My guess is at this stage in your plan that's bad.

ariana`

I haven't managed to get online much over the Christmas but i'm reading back now and there's been interesting posts & responses! El Cab i've bookmarked the article to read at my leisure. I'm still in a bit of flux with regards to following a plan, there's a lot to consider. But i have been making efforts to do more runs at my easy pace and i'm actually growing used to that pace and enjoying those runs. I have the same difficulty as Kellygirl in that i like running with people and it's hard to get them to slow down! Last night we did 7km, i managed to keep them with me @ my easy pace until half-way, it was an out & back route so when we turned they took off but i let them go. I did 4 strides in the 5th km so i reeled them back in a bit then and i finished only about 30 seconds behind them so we got to catch up and do our stretches together then. So that worked well and i was delighted i had stuck to my pace.

Baby75

ariana` wrote: »

I haven't managed to get online much over the Christmas but i'm reading back now and there's been interesting posts & responses! El Cab i've bookmarked the article to read at my leisure. I'm still in a bit of flux with regards to following a plan, there's a lot to consider. But i have been making efforts to do more runs at my easy pace and i'm actually growing used to that pace and enjoying those runs. I have the same difficulty as Kellygirl in that i like running with people and it's hard to get them to slow down! Last night we did 7km, i managed to keep them with me @ my easy pace until half-way, it was an out & back route so when we turned they took off but i let them go. I did 4 strides in the 5th km so i reeled them back in a bit then and i finished only about 30 seconds behind them so we got to catch up and do our stretches together then. So that worked well and i was delighted i had stuck to my pace.

It's great when you stick to the pace and it will pay off Ariana I am feeling the benefit already!

ariana`

Baby75 wrote: »

It's great when you stick to the pace and it will pay off Ariana I am feeling the benefit already!

Ya i really believe so, any reading i've done backs up everything we've been told on the novices and graduates threads, i don't doubt the science. But on the flipside this whole running crack started as a social outlet for me, running in the evening with the girls and having the chats & laughs was a lifesaver for me at a time when we had just moved to the sticks were i knew nobody and i was stuck at home with a toddler and a very difficult newborn. It's different now thankfully I'm much more settled but i don't want to turn my back on the girls who got me through those times and without whom i probably wouldn't be running at all and i'd miss them too, its definitely easier to go out the door on a cold/wet night when you're meeting someone, i mostly ran on my own training for dcm and it was a lonely road. So it's to strike the balance but runs like last night make me thing it's possible

Kellygirl

ariana` wrote: »

Ya i really believe so, any reading i've done backs up everything we've been told on the novices and graduates threads, i don't doubt the science. But on the flipside this whole running crack started as a social outlet for me, running in the evening with the girls and having the chats & laughs was a lifesaver for me at a time when we had just moved to the sticks were i knew nobody and i was stuck at home with a toddler and a very difficult newborn. It's different now thankfully I'm much more settled but i don't want to turn my back on the girls who got me through those times and without whom i probably wouldn't be running at all and i'd miss them too, its definitely easier to go out the door on a cold/wet night when you're meeting someone, i mostly ran on my own training for dcm and it was a lonely road. So it's to strike the balance but runs like last night make me thing it's possible

I meet people for part of my runs sometimes. Yesterday a friend was busy until 10:15 but I was starting earlier so I ran 5km to meet her and then we ran together back to my car and I dropped her back. Same with long runs, I used have people join me at certain stages depending on how far they wanted to go and i’d plan my routes with loops for them. It gave me the best of both worlds. Not always feasible but handy when it works out.

El Caballo

skyblue46 wrote: »

Quick, or not so quick, question for El C. As you may have noticed the paces on the calculator have exercised quite a few minds. In other parts of cyber space our graduates are still struggling to come to terms with 'slowing down'. People doing 29 minute 5k parkruns are perplexed to see that their very easy runs should be done at 14m per mile...slower than a brisk walk. This filters through most paces and the consensus is that they can't run that slowly.

In trying to make sense of it I have suggested that the paces really only apply to the plan. If someone is not doing sessions then they don't have the same need for recovery? If they are running alternate days then the rest days are the recovery and they can run tempo or moderate easy on other days? Is it simply not asking the body to push hard day after day? On the other hand if someone is running 5/6/7 days a week, sessions included, then it is more important that they pay heed to suggested very easy and easy paces?

I had wrote up a huge reply to this but I bumped into a lot of contradictions in my head about the first paragraph so leave it with for another bit SB and I'll get back to it when I've ironed out the creases:)

skyblue46 wrote: »

As it's question time I'll add another. What part does recovery play in intervals. For example I have a session on the plan for Saturday. It's 15 mins tempo, 4 mins rest, 10 mins threshold. As on Monday I could do a Parkrun with 3k tempo and 2k threshold or I could stop on course for my 4 minutes rest and then continue. Which offers the most training benefit. Is it just about effort and heart rate or is there something to be gained by starting to run again after the body has started to switch off?

Swashbuckler wrote: »

As always ElC will give a detailed answer. My guess is it's to do with the stress. There's a reason these sessions are split with recoveries. For example if someone is training for a 5k ideally you would like to do a session training at the race pace for the full 5k but that's too much stress on the body. So it's broken into intervals with recoveries to reduce the overall stress. If you don't have the four minutes recovery between your tempo and threshold your essentially stressing your body continuously for 5k. My guess is at this stage in your plan that's bad.

Swashbuckler nailed this one:). The idea behind interval workouts is to stress without going mad. The idea behind everthing in training is to progressively stress your body to shock it into adaption. Our body loves homeostasis and has an extreme dislike for overload so stress has to be gradually added throughout training by giving it little bumps of stress to adapt to. It also needs recovery time to adapt to training and return to homeostasis at a higher fitness level so you have to find a balance between stress and recovery in the whole scheme of a plan which is why intervals are broken into sections. The recovery in the actual sessions are so that you can a bit of stress from the intensity but without killing yourself in the bigger picture as running for longer at intensity is more stress on your system.

When you look at the plan, you should see that the workouts progress as the plan does. i.e less recovery, longer reps or higher volume. This is because you get stronger(adapted) as the plan goes on so need to add to it to get the same stress as you did from the earlier workouts in the plan. You're taking small progressive steps.

ariana` wrote: »

I haven't managed to get online much over the Christmas but i'm reading back now and there's been interesting posts & responses! El Cab i've bookmarked the article to read at my leisure. I'm still in a bit of flux with regards to following a plan, there's a lot to consider. But i have been making efforts to do more runs at my easy pace and i'm actually growing used to that pace and enjoying those runs. I have the same difficulty as Kellygirl in that i like running with people and it's hard to get them to slow down! Last night we did 7km, i managed to keep them with me @ my easy pace until half-way, it was an out & back route so when we turned they took off but i let them go. I did 4 strides in the 5th km so i reeled them back in a bit then and i finished only about 30 seconds behind them so we got to catch up and do our stretches together then. So that worked well and i was delighted i had stuck to my pace.

Good stuff ariana:)

If you're struggling to slow them down, send them on here, I'm sure my powers of nagging would keep them in check:p

To be serious though, It's a hobby at the end of the day so there has to be some balance there and going a bit faster sometimes isn't the end of the world no matter how much I harp on about it. I'm just giving the advice I know and hoping you guys take the message on board and run with it in general. I guess what I'm saying is don't make a habit of running someone elses pace for all your training. If you keep ideas in mind, get a nice spell of consistency under belt. Eventually you'll be telling them to come on and slowing up to keep together;)

skyblue46

Thanks for that. I'll stop mid parkrun next Saturday so. I enjoy them, enjoy my tour of Dublin parkruns, only get less than half of weekends off work so I am trying to use them in some adapted form as my Saturday session on the half marathon plan.

El Caballo

skyblue46 wrote: »

Thanks for that. I'll stop mid parkrun next Saturday so. I enjoy them, enjoy my tour of Dublin parkruns, only get less than half of weekends off work so I am trying to use them in some adapted form as my Saturday session on the half marathon plan.

No need to stop, from the man who designed the plan himself;)

Testosterscone wrote: »

Recovery periods for intervals is not something that too many people pay much attention to for the most part other than for how long but how you recover can play an important role depending on the type of session you are doing. Some sessions the recovery period is the focus you are trying to pay attention to as you are trying to encourage your body to use lactate as fuel.

Generally however in particular for this plan I would encourage active rest i.e jogging recoveries unless you are getting down to 1 mile race pace reps or less. Anything 5k pace or slower I would say for most people here jogging is fine as you are focusing on building aerobic capacity moreso than anything. With jog as well it should be nothing that this can be little more than a shuffle it's more just to keep the legs moving

In a previous incarnation I did up a general post on recoveries which might answer some of your questions

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99005110&postcount=3

skyblue46

El Caballo wrote: »

No need to stop, from the man who designed the plan himself;)

Haha...I'll run back the course so and then turn around for the threshold. They thought I was mad in Father Collins for running past the finish and back just to reach my 25 mins tempo!