DCM 2017 Graduates: Onwards and upwards!

clickerquicklic

skyblue46 wrote: »

I'll second that, I'm loving the plan and really feel the fitness and pace improving. It's a winner...and hopefully a PB in Bohermeen will prove it! :-))

I really need to get back to following a plan , tbh i'm struggling since the marathon to allocate the time to running so am fitting runs in going to work and have totally neglected the long runs.
You guys are convincing me to look at it again and make it work , maybe I can do a session on the commute but the paths are already full with people it would be hard. No idea where I am PB wise probably slower than pre marathon but feel stronger.

What pace did you guys use for the calculators ? a recent 5k or results from the race series? Thanks and well done I follow a few of you on strava and you are all flyin.

BrownEyes79

Kellygirl wrote: »

Are you training with a particular race in mind Browneyes? I suppose it depends on when the end date of the plan is? Remember we were always told in the novice plan not to chase missed miles or runs and just move on but it’s different if you have loads of time as such.

Thank KG, I planning on doing the Bohermeen half in March. I did the session for week 4 yesterday so I think I’ll continue with that. I’ll still be two weeks behind plan so will have to alter it a little over the next few weeks so I can get the taper in too!

Just out of interest what is the recommended distance for a warm up & cool down?

skyblue46

clickerquicklic wrote: »

I really need to get back to following a plan , tbh i'm struggling since the marathon to allocate the time to running so am fitting runs in going to work and have totally neglected the long runs.
You guys are convincing me to look at it again and make it work , maybe I can do a session on the commute but the paths are already full with people it would be hard. No idea where I am PB wise probably slower than pre marathon but feel stronger.

What pace did you guys use for the calculators ? a recent 5k or results from the race series? Thanks and well done I follow a few of you on strava and you are all flyin.

I based it on a Jingle Bells 5k. I thought it might be a bit of an outlier what with the nature of the course but El C thinks I should be ok with it. You've been running fairly constantly so I think you could go with any recent PB. If you are sure and certain that you have soft PBs you could calculate based on a realistic guestimate of your current capabilities.

El Caballo

skyblue46 wrote: »

Your marathon was run very conservatively so I wouldn't use it. Use the race times on the calculator perhaps. Yep then divide the time difference into 3 or 4 steps.

+1

BrownEyes79 wrote: »

Hi everyone, just a quick question with regards to the graduates half marathon plan.
I was really enjoying this plan for the first 2 weeks and did all my training days. Then week 3 was Christmas week and I only got out a couple of times, I missed the mid week session and last week (4th week) I didn’t get out at all but I did do cardio and S&C at home everyday.
I’m going to get back at it this week properly but I’m wondering should I start the plan from week 1 again or continue where I left off or treat this week as week 5?

I don’t get on here as much as I’d like but I love reading back on all the posts, there’s some brilliant advice on here

Hey browneyes. Going back to week 2 would probably be your best bet, the has progression built in to it so if you haven't done the sessions due to time off, it's a leap forward without the backup of the previous weeks so it wouldn't be the best to run week 5 now.

Kellygirl wrote: »

A nutrition question? Do ye take gels while training? Looking at doing 1:45 mins at easy pace tomorrow so a much slower pace than I’m used to. When training for DCM I used take a gel every hour but I was going much faster too!

Depends on how far I'm going on the long run personally, I usually don't bother unless I'm out for 2:15 hours or more and in marathon training as usually I'm taking them just to get used to stomaching them at certain times during the long run to practice for raceday.

RolandDeschain wrote: »

Just to give my own feedback on the graduate plans, personally I am finding the sessions really enjoyable. They are hard and tough but really fun and my favourite runs of the week.

I'm finding the easy runs a real grind. I thought the suggested easy paces were too slow but it's actually really tough to run any quicker than the suggested paces.

I have a question on S&C.....so currently doing two sessions a week. So I was in the gym yesterday and found my "easy" 1 hour run today pretty tough. Should I schedule these gym workouts after the sessions? Hard days hard, easy days easy?

Good to see your enjoying the sessions roland. General consensus is that you should do the S&C on hard days. I would be careful here though as you don't want to be going really hard in the gym when you are running 2 workouts a week. The important thing is that it shouldn't have a huge effect on your running so if you feel ridiculously tired after the gym, might be an idea to just dial back the number of reps or sets and even weight if you are lifting. This isn't something I can tell you much about as you should learn over time where the balance is through experience but yeah, hard days hard.

clickerquicklic wrote: »

I really need to get back to following a plan , tbh i'm struggling since the marathon to allocate the time to running so am fitting runs in going to work and have totally neglected the long runs.
You guys are convincing me to look at it again and make it work , maybe I can do a session on the commute but the paths are already full with people it would be hard. No idea where I am PB wise probably slower than pre marathon but feel stronger.

What pace did you guys use for the calculators ? a recent 5k or results from the race series? Thanks and well done I follow a few of you on strava and you are all flyin.

Recent race time is the best predictor clicker as it gives you the most accurate estimate of your current fitness. Remember, you train at current fitnes, not goal pace.

El Caballo

skyblue46 wrote: »

Quick, or not so quick, question for El C. As you may have noticed the paces on the calculator have exercised quite a few minds. In other parts of cyber space our graduates are still struggling to come to terms with 'slowing down'. People doing 29 minute 5k parkruns are perplexed to see that their very easy runs should be done at 14m per mile...slower than a brisk walk. This filters through most paces and the consensus is that they can't run that slowly.

In trying to make sense of it I have suggested that the paces really only apply to the plan. If someone is not doing sessions then they don't have the same need for recovery? If they are running alternate days then the rest days are the recovery and they can run tempo or moderate easy on other days? Is it simply not asking the body to push hard day after day? On the other hand if someone is running 5/6/7 days a week, sessions included, then it is more important that they pay heed to suggested very easy and easy paces?

I've had a bit of time to think this over and although I said the calculator will become less relevant as a certain point, this isn't something that anyone here or from the novice thread should have to worry about as I overestimated the effects for say a 30 minute 5k runner. 30 min 5k equates to 13 mid range easy pace and most 30 minute 5k runners would be roughly around 2:30 for the half which is around 11:30 paceso a high 13 to low 14 sounds about right for the intensity you are looking at. It will out a lot closer to marathon pace for a 30 minute 5k runner than a 20 minute runner but thats because marathon pace for 20 minute runner could be 3:30 hours of running but marathon pace for the 30 minute 5k could be 5:30 hours of running. Time dictates intensity so the longer someone runs for the marathon, the closer easy pace is to marathon pace. What I'd say in this situation is that for someone running 30 minutes 5k is its probably ok to run on the fast end of the range if they are struggling to run at the lower end.

For running alternate days, it doesn't really matter because it's not about how many days you run, it's about how much stress your body is used to so if you haven't run 7 days a week, your body will still see 4 days as a stress etc. Sessions make a difference yes, they usually slow you down the next day but They are aimed at a stimulus from intensity of the run itself and not the effectd of the workout the day before (The calculator doesn't know you did a workout etc. Testosterscone does but I think he'd agree that the pace would fit either way) and I think everyone here would be benefit from them whether they are doing the specific plan or not as there's still a huge amount to be gained from this lower intensity for newish runners.

clickerquicklic

El Caballo wrote: »

Recent race time is the best predictor clicker as it gives you the most accurate estimate of your current fitness. Remember, you train at current fitnes, not goal pace.

I haven't run a race flat out really since the marathon , my 5k pb is 18.44 I did the Parkrun double and gave them both a good lash not 100% effort but not far off and ran 19.14 then 19.33 and hour or so later so probably not a million miles off my 5k pb if I went 100% for it in a 5k race.
It's great to read the positive feedback from the plans I know I really enjoyed the marathon plan so i'll try juggle things around fit the sessions in. I'm enjoying the run commute a couple of times a week really helps bumping up the mileage.

Baby75

Slightly off topic but I just learned how to set up intervals on my tomtom watch yay I know it is the little things my two kids do not share my enthusiasm but I just had to share LOL

I am loving all the information I am learning so much it is fantastic

dare I ask, but would the graduate's plan and calculator for pacing be a better option for novices in the DCM novices thread ( hope I am not opening a can of worms here)

clickerquicklic

Right I have this plan ready to go , I think i'll wait till after the Raheny 5 mile to start it and do 10k- half marathon. Quick question , sorry if answered before but are the hills run flat out?

Testosterscone

clickerquicklic wrote: »

Right I have this plan ready to go , I think i'll wait till after the Raheny 5 mile to start it and do 10k- half marathon. Quick question , sorry if answered before but are the hills run flat out?

Wouldn't be flat out but will be difficult enough aim is about 5k effort so you should feel controlled the first few and feeling it more as the session goes on.

I generally tend to say to a person set your benchmark in the first two of where you finish. Spend the rest of the session trying to get atleast that far. If you are no where near that by the end of session you have gone out too hard.

Kellygirl

First intentional slow long run done - and I stuck the time too for the most part! I was doing 1 hr 45 mins and I set off at easy pace. Needless to say it felt really easy at the start and after 3 miles I still wasn’t out of breath. It became a bit of a drag for a while and then I started to get tired and I started noticing hills (drags) where I never noticed them before! I covered 9 miles - had to keep going for another minute or two to round off to 9 miles for my own head!

It messed with my head a little - I ran a 10 mile race when I was sick in 1hr 33 and seeing as i’ve generally run everything at the same pace until now more or less it felt weird. Also I felt it was nearly harder on my legs - is that weird? I felt like I could possibly never run faster again! Heart rate was lower than normal alright though.

Feels good to have finally done what i’ve been told to do. I wonder do my kids feel like that when they finally listen to me - probably not!

BrownEyes79

Kellygirl wrote: »

First intentional slow long run done - and I stuck the time too for the most part! I was doing 1 hr 45 mins and I set off at easy pace. Needless to say it felt really easy at the start and after 3 miles I still wasn’t out of breath. It became a bit of a drag for a while and then I started to get tired and I started noticing hills (drags) where I never noticed them before! I covered 9 miles - had to keep going for another minute or two to round off to 9 miles for my own head!

It messed with my head a little - I ran a 10 mile race when I was sick in 1hr 33 and seeing as i’ve generally run everything at the same pace until now more or less it felt weird. Also I felt it was nearly harder on my legs - is that weird? I felt like I could possibly never run faster again! Heart rate was lower than normal alright though.

Feels good to have finally done what i’ve been told to do. I wonder do my kids feel like that when they finally listen to me - probably not!

I’ve been trying to slow down on my runs too. I know exactly what you mean, it nearly feels like more of an effort to run slow and harder on the legs but that all must be a good sign and I assume we are using different muscles too!

BrownEyes79

Thanks El Caballo.
I probably should of mentioned I’m aiming for a half marathon in March!! But I’m not going for any crazy PB or anything it’s more for experience! Once I get in or around my previous PB I’ll be happy

I’ve 8 weeks of training before that so if I only get to week 9/10 of the graduate plan done should I still substitute the last week with the taper week? And will that training still get me around the course?

ariana`

Kellygirl wrote: »

First intentional slow long run done - and I stuck the time too for the most part! I was doing 1 hr 45 mins and I set off at easy pace. Needless to say it felt really easy at the start and after 3 miles I still wasn’t out of breath. It became a bit of a drag for a while and then I started to get tired and I started noticing hills (drags) where I never noticed them before! I covered 9 miles - had to keep going for another minute or two to round off to 9 miles for my own head!

It messed with my head a little - I ran a 10 mile race when I was sick in 1hr 33 and seeing as i’ve generally run everything at the same pace until now more or less it felt weird. Also I felt it was nearly harder on my legs - is that weird? I felt like I could possibly never run faster again! Heart rate was lower than normal alright though.

Feels good to have finally done what i’ve been told to do. I wonder do my kids feel like that when they finally listen to me - probably not!

KG i noticed your nice low HR on Strava too and it got me looking at my own runs. Looking back at runs from last June, 3 consecutive weekends' long run

Dist|Time|Avg HR
15.0|1:33:xx|148
15.0|1:31:xx|158
14.0|1:30:xx|152


And 2 recent long runs

Dist|Time|Avg HR
15.0|1:42:xx|165
14.4|1:43:xx|162


My HR seems to be significantly higher on the slower recent runs

My watch is wrist based HR and while i hear they are not reliable, in my experience the trend tends to be mostly consistent, tougher runs/sessions = higher average hr, slower/shorter runs = lower average hr.

So what does the above tell me?
on paper it looks like I'm less aerobically fit than last June (at the time they were my longest runs ever!)

The 2 recent long runs were the past 2 weekends and i'd done very little or no S&C in the days leading up to these runs and all other mid-week runs were at a similarly easy pace.

Does cold weather impact hr? I am clutching at straws i know

I'll be doing a 3rd long run at my new easy pace this weekend so interested to see now how it goes.

Baby75

ariana` wrote: »

KG i noticed your nice low HR on Strava too and it got me looking at my own runs. Looking back at runs from last June, 3 consecutive weekends' long run

Dist|Time|Avg HR
15.0|1:33:xx|148
15.0|1:31:xx|158
14.0|1:30:xx|152


And 2 recent long runs

Dist|Time|Avg HR
15.0|1:42:xx|165
14.4|1:43:xx|162


My HR seems to be significantly higher on the slower recent runs

My watch is wrist based HR and while i hear they are not reliable, in my experience the trend tends to be mostly consistent, tougher runs/sessions = higher average hr, slower/shorter runs = lower average hr.

So what does the above tell me?
on paper it looks like I'm less aerobically fit than last June (at the time they were my longest runs ever!)

The 2 recent long runs were the past 2 weekends and i'd done very little or no S&C in the days leading up to these runs and all other mid-week runs were at a similarly easy pace.

Does cold weather impact hr? I am clutching at straws i know

I'll be doing a 3rd long run at my new easy pace this weekend so interested to see now how it goes.

interesting Ariana and I wonder if it is cold can affect heart rate, a quick google says it can but I think that is in very cold weather ice snow etc or maybe the lingering remains of your cold virus even though you feel better might be still upsetting things!

Keeks

Clean the contact area of the HR monitor....salt build up from sweat can affect readings

ariana`

Baby75 wrote: »

interesting Ariana and I wonder if it is cold can affect heart rate, a quick google says it can but I think that is in very cold weather ice snow etc or maybe the lingering remains of your cold virus even though you feel better might be still upsetting things!

Ah yes, i had forgotten the 2 recent long runs were the weekends either side of having a head cold. Now it wasn't a particularly bad dose but still it may have been enough to inflate the HR readings a bit. And last Sunday was very cold, there was frost on the ground, my fingers were numb for the entire run even with cold weather running gloves on.

Ok, i'll monitor it over the coming weeks.

Thanks

Testosterscone

ariana` wrote: »

Ah yes, i had forgotten the 2 recent long runs were the weekends either side of having a head cold. Now it wasn't a particularly bad dose but still it may have been enough to inflate the HR readings a bit. And last Sunday was very cold, there was frost on the ground, my fingers were numb for the entire run even with cold weather running gloves on.

Ok, i'll monitor it over the coming weeks.

Thanks

Heart rate can be a good indicator when something is coming on even before any symptoms come on. Think of it as an early warning system.

In terms of cold weather as well your body will be working harder to keep warm in colder weather which will elevate your heart rate coupled with the fact you will have more layers on.

I wouldn't worry about that sort of fluctuation generally always find the winter running is harder effort for same paces (generally my paces naturally slow a little bit on easy runs as run by feel for the most part)

While pace, heart rate etc are all great tools they should be seen as just that tools. They help rather than determine so each one can be used for feedback but ultimately you need to use them smartly if you feel overly tired don't run at a certain pace or HR just because the watch tells, learn from them so that you can be in tune with effort and can make the right judgment calls for you through experience

Kellygirl

Funny, I just went back to compare mine too and it wasn’t too much lower than my long runs during the Summer - but I do have a head old at the moment as well. It’s interesting.

Kellygirl

Just looking at the Dublin Marathon website - this year the waves are starting every 15 mins but they are assigning wave times based on your previous time or estimated if a first time runner. Wonder how that will work if somebody has done a significant amount of work during the year and intends shaving a big chunk off their pb.

skyblue46

Kellygirl wrote: »

Just looking at the Dublin Marathon website - this year the waves are starting every 15 mins but they are assigning wave times based on your previous time or estimated if a first time runner. Wonder how that will work if somebody has done a significant amount of work during the year and intends shaving a big chunk off their pb.

Lie, lie and lie a bit more!!

The Black Oil

Re why LSRs runs are slow - seems that's been thrashed out a good bit already. I forget the technical/scientific explanation given last year - think it was down to building your engine (strengthens the heart too?), but would imagine it's also linked to reducing risk of injury.

A line or two from the OP in the 2017 Novices thread.

Run slow. Once you think you run slow enough, run even slower. You will not be able to complete all the training miles if you don't run the majority of them slow (slower than you will run on the day itself).

skyblue46

The Black Oil wrote: »

Re why LSRs runs are slow - seems that's been thrashed out a good bit already. I forget the technical/scientific explanation given last year - think it was down to building your engine (strengthens the heart too?), but would imagine it's also linked to reducing risk of injury.

A line or two from the OP in the 2017 Novices thread.

It's actually an interesting change up on the grad plan that the long run isn't the slowest run of the week any more. Hope you're keeping well.

skyblue46

Just a quick question for the lads re my sessions this week. 10*300 at mile pace. If this is calculated using projected mile time based on my 5k it's in the AE range. On Saturday I have to do 4*8 mins at HM pace. This would seem to be at the crossover between tempo and threshold. Do both of these seem OK?

ariana`

Kellygirl wrote: »

Just looking at the Dublin Marathon website - this year the waves are starting every 15 mins but they are assigning wave times based on your previous time or estimated if a first time runner. Wonder how that will work if somebody has done a significant amount of work during the year and intends shaving a big chunk off their pb.

What are the wave times? If i entered again i'd be aiming for a good 15-20 mins off last years time :eek:

skyblue46

ariana` wrote: »

What are the wave times? If i entered again i'd be aiming for a good 15-20 mins off last years time :eek:

A good 38 minutes off last years time!!!!

ariana`

skyblue46 wrote: »

A good 38 minutes off last years time!!!!

Now that would be sweet

Kellygirl

ariana` wrote: »

What are the wave times? If i entered again i'd be aiming for a good 15-20 mins off last years time :eek:

They don’t say the wave times other than 4 waves at 9, 9:15, 9:30 and 9:45. When booking you fill in your previous time and estimated time. You could say you are a first time runner too though and just give an estimated time to make sure you end up in the right wave.

Testosterscone

skyblue46 wrote: »

Just a quick question for the lads re my sessions this week. 10*300 at mile pace. If this is calculated using projected mile time based on my 5k it's in the AE range. On Saturday I have to do 4*8 mins at HM pace. This would seem to be at the crossover between tempo and threshold. Do both of these seem OK?

Just had a look. The slower range for AE would be fine for this. It's definitely a tough session but no more so than the hills that preceeded it.

Regarding the HM pace. This is a turning point in the plan. Your threshold work and Tempo work should be good indicators of where your fitness is. Now that you are over half way though the plan it's time to start dialing in the target pace you aim to run on Race day. Be realistic with yourself on this though if you haven't been running anywhere near this pace on your threshold runs up until now don't suddenly assume that you will magically improve fitness simply from plucking an ambitious target out of the sky. It will probably work out a somewhere between the two with it slight tilted more towards the threshold end of the range if that makes sense (Just had a look at your strava and figures and this would probably put you into the 7.20-7.30 range approx.

skyblue46

Testosterscone wrote: »

Just had a look. The slower range for AE would be fine for this. It's definitely a tough session but no more so than the hills that preceeded it.

Regarding the HM pace. This is a turning point in the plan. Your threshold work and Tempo work should be good indicators of where your fitness is. Now that you are over half way though the plan it's time to start dialing in the target pace you aim to run on Race day. Be realistic with yourself on this though if you haven't been running anywhere near this pace on your threshold runs up until now don't suddenly assume that you will magically improve fitness simply from plucking an ambitious target out of the sky. It will probably work out a somewhere between the two with it slight tilted more towards the threshold end of the range if that makes sense (Just had a look at your strava and figures and this would probably put you into the 7.20-7.30 range approx.

Thanks for taking the time to have a look. I think I'll aim at 7:20 pace. My Dublin half was 7:36 and I'm hoping to have improved a bit with only six weeks done and still eight to do. I've used parkruns as tempo and threshold for the last few weeks averaging about 7:10 for threshold and 7:25 for tempo. It has been testing without being all out. I'm going to aim for a 36 min Raheny @ 7:12 miles so that should give me a good idea of where I'm at.

skyblue46

Testosterscone wrote: »

Just had a look. The slower range for AE would be fine for this. It's definitely a tough session but no more so than the hills that preceded it.

Erm...for me definitely tougher than the hills!! Messed up setting the workout on the watch so ended up only doing 9 repeats. That ended up being a blessing in disguise as a 10th one would have left me typing this from my deathbed !!! Fooked!

Baby75

skyblue46 wrote: »

Erm...for me definitely tougher than the hills!! Messed up setting the workout on the watch so ended up only doing 9 repeats. That ended up being a blessing in disguise as a 10th one would have left me typing this from my deathbed !!! Fooked!

Well done on getting it done:)

I got out for a session tonight, I am wondering if I should have found it harder than I did I warmed up and we did 1 mind repeats with 3 min recovery in between them, I was trying to run at my 5km pace but kept finding that I was to fast I was aiming for 5.30 min pace and only one hit that all the rest faster. at no time did I feel I could not go on and feel great now I am finished.

but I guess I do not have a recent 5km time to go on for paces

skyblue46

Baby75 wrote: »

Well done on getting it done:)

I got out for a session tonight, I am wondering if I should have found it harder than I did I warmed up and we did 1 mind repeats with 3 min recovery in between them, I was trying to run at my 5km pace but kept finding that I was to fast I was aiming for 5.30 min pace and only one hit that all the rest faster. at no time did I feel I could not go on and feel great now I am finished.

but I guess I do not have a recent 5km time to go on for paces

My pace was about 3:45 but I think it was the 60 sec rest that really made it tough

Baby75

skyblue46 wrote: »

My pace was about 3:45 but I think it was the 60 sec rest that really made it tough

flying S, my pace was under 5 minutes so I had to check and slow down, hit my target pace once 5.30, the rest are faster. I guess I am a little bit happy a pace I thought I would never run I can now and I know I can sustain it for longer as well. but I just want to make sure I do it right

I will know exactly where I am after the 28th Jan which terrifies me I always get so nervous before a 5km

skyblue46

Baby75 wrote: »

flying S, my pace was under 5 minutes so I had to check and slow down, hit my target pace once 5.30, the rest are faster. I guess I am a little bit happy a pace I thought I would never run I can now and I know I can sustain it for longer as well. but I just want to make sure I do it right

I will know exactly where I am after the 28th Jan which terrifies me I always get so nervous before a 5km

Pick a target pace and go at it pretty much even paced

RolandDeschain

I did the 5min CV session tonight. Bloody hell. Thought my heart was going to explode on the last set.

How are folks finding the grad plans? I find the Sessions are class. I haven't missed one yet but missed a few of the LSRs so my overall weekly mileage hasn't been high enough.

Does anyone know a good S&C coach or PT for runners? Any gym work I do is more on the body building or powerlifting side. Be nice to get any gym work to make me a better runner!

RolandDeschain

Baby75 wrote: »

flying S, my pace was under 5 minutes so I had to check and slow down, hit my target pace once 5.30, the rest are faster. I guess I am a little bit happy a pace I thought I would never run I can now and I know I can sustain it for longer as well. but I just want to make sure I do it right

I will know exactly where I am after the 28th Jan which terrifies me I always get so nervous before a 5km

Good stuff. Great to hear the speed work pays off.

I hear ya about 5km races. I always mess them up pacing wise.

ariana`

Baby75 wrote: »

flying S, my pace was under 5 minutes so I had to check and slow down, hit my target pace once 5.30, the rest are faster. I guess I am a little bit happy a pace I thought I would never run I can now and I know I can sustain it for longer as well. but I just want to make sure I do it right

I will know exactly where I am after the 28th Jan which terrifies me I always get so nervous before a 5km

Me too Baby. It's definitely a love/hate relationship for me! I love the buzz afterwards especially if you've PB'ed or even just ran really well. Is it a course you've run before? I'm getting to a stage now where there are a few local 5K races every year and i've done them all twice or even 3 times so i look back at my previous efforts on Strava to break the race down and plan a strategy.

Or if you have an idea of the course profile it could help in this way?

skyblue46 wrote: »

Pick a target pace and go at it pretty much even paced

Or this, pick a realistic target and run even splits for 4km and in the last km empty the tank!

You've a good PB in you that is for sure so don't be afraid of it

Baby75

RolandDeschain wrote: »

Good stuff. Great to hear the speed work pays off.

I hear ya about 5km races. I always mess them up pacing wise.

It really does, and with following the plan and running slower on your midweek runs it is nice to do a speed session and see progress

I have messed them up as well, but in fairness, I had unrealistic expectations at my last 5KM and I think I went out to fast so I was disappointed even though looking back I ran really well Hopefully I am wiser now

ariana` wrote: »

Me too Baby. It's definitely a love/hate relationship for me! I love the buzz afterwards especially if you've PB'ed or even just ran really well. Is it a course you've run before? I'm getting to a stage now where there are a few local 5K races every year and i've done them all twice or even 3 times so i look back at my previous efforts on Strava to break the race down and plan a strategy.

Or if you have an idea of the course profile it could help in this way?



Or this, pick a realistic target and run even splits for 4km and in the last km empty the tank!

You've a good PB in you that is for sure so don't be afraid of it

Thanks Ariana, I do know the course, I ran my 10k PB on it in August it is a run out of 2.5 then turn and run back in again, for the 10K I did not start with a pacer but I caught up with the 60 minute one I and stayed with her, I moved ahead of her at one point & she caught back up just after we turned at the 5km mark so stuck with her again till I hit the turn around for the 5km and I won't say I empitied the tank but I upped my pace and finished strong sprinting to the finish.

I will be doing a nice warm up and some strides beforehand to get the legs ready for the faster pace

But still, 5km are scary its all about hanging on!

ariana`

Baby75 wrote: »

It really does, and with following the plan and running slower on your midweek runs it is nice to do a speed session and see progress

I have messed them up as well, but in fairness, I had unrealistic expectations at my last 5KM and I think I went out to fast so I was disappointed even though looking back I ran really well Hopefully I am wiser now



Thanks Ariana, I do know the course, I ran my 10k PB on it in August it is a run out of 2.5 then turn and run back in again, for the 10K I did not start with a pacer but I caught up with the 60 minute one I and stayed with her, I moved ahead of her at one point & she caught back up just after we turned at the 5km mark so stuck with her again till I hit the turn around for the 5km and I won't say I empitied the tank but I upped my pace and finished strong sprinting to the finish.

I will be doing a nice warm up and some strides beforehand to get the legs ready for the faster pace

But still, 5km are scary its all about hanging on!

Sure is. I get that sick nervous feeling in my stomach just thinking about them :pac: but you'll do great, i know you will. What time do you think you will target?

Baby75

ariana` wrote: »

Sure is. I get that sick nervous feeling in my stomach just thinking about them :pac: but you'll do great, i know you will. What time do you think you will target?

Yep same here, no other race does that to me LOL I am thinking 27 minutes but 26 is in the back of my mind as well so we shall see

Oh picked up a new foam roller in Aldi today much better than my last one which has vanished into the great beyond caused by my kids LOL but great value at 8 euro and they had them in Lidil for 9

ariana`

Baby75 wrote: »

Yep same here, no other race does that to me LOL I am thinking 27 minutes but 26 is in the back of my mind as well so we shall see

Oh picked up a new foam roller in Aldi today much better than my last one which has vanished into the great beyond caused by my kids LOL but great value at 8 euro and they had them in Lidil for 9

I think you should go for 26. Set out at 5:10 pace and see how you're feeling as it goes, you'll know how you're feeling and if you need to you can readjust to 5:20 and 27 will still be well on.

I have 2 foam rollers and neither of them are cutting it at the moment. I'm just rolling over the knots and not getting into them. My latest torture device is a baseball :eek:

On the subject i was at physio again yesterday. I got a whole new routine for my right side targeting ankle flexion, glute strength & quad/hip flexor mobility. So lots of homework for me to be doing. I'd like to keep the full s&c sessions going as well and i thought they would cover me but it seems not, this right side needs some dedicated work :mad: But no reason not to carry on running in the meantime so that's good.

Baby75

ariana` wrote: »

I think you should go for 26. Set out at 5:10 pace and see how you're feeling as it goes, you'll know how you're feeling and if you need to you can readjust to 5:20 and 27 will still be well on.

I have 2 foam rollers and neither of them are cutting it at the moment. I'm just rolling over the knots and not getting into them. My latest torture device is a baseball :eek:

On the subject i was at physio again yesterday. I got a whole new routine for my right side targeting ankle flexion, glute strength & quad/hip flexor mobility. So lots of homework for me to be doing. I'd like to keep the full s&c sessions going as well and i thought they would cover me but it seems not, this right side needs some dedicated work :mad: But no reason not to carry on running in the meantime so that's good.

I think I will do that, I will set it up on my watch but see how I feel and can pull back a little if needed.

I am glad you can keep running and hope the exercises pay x

skyblue46

Baby75 wrote: »

I think I will do that, I will set it up on my watch but see how I feel and can pull back a little if needed.

I am glad you can keep running and hope the exercises pay x

I'd agree with E. If the purpose is to see what you can do then be reasonably aggressive with pacing. You learn nothing about training paces etc by doing a comfortable 27. A minute is a lot in a 5k and if you think 26 is possible then 27 is too slow to set your initial pace on

Baby75

I feel a wee bit silly asking but anyway!!

Should I taper before the 5km and should I skip my midweek session

skyblue46

Baby75 wrote: »

I feel a wee bit silly asking but anyway!!

Should I taper before the 5km and should I skip my midweek session

No need to skip a session but no big miles too close. My HM plan has a speed session 4 days before the race.

Baby75

skyblue46 wrote: »

No need to skip a session but no big miles too close. My HM plan has a speed session 4 days before the race.

Great I was looking forward to my midweek session and the 5km is on Sunday the 28 so I will rest Friday & Saturday

ariana`

It's gone quiet in here. Everyone must be too busy running

I did an 8km race yesterday, my first race since last July so i was going to use it to check my paces on the calculator but there's no option for 8k. I guess it's not a standard race distance/

Kellygirl

ariana` wrote: »

It's gone quiet in here. Everyone must be too busy running

I did an 8km race yesterday, my first race since last July so i was going to use it to check my paces on the calculator but there's no option for 8k. I guess it's not a standard race distance/

What about 5miles instead? 8km is 4.97 miles so you are very close.

All going well here. Getting used to these easy runs. Did my 4 miles last night at an 11:23 pace (7.09 min/km) and didn’t break a sweat at all but didn’t find it too painful either. Was quite pleasant actually. I did the exact same route last week @ 9.33. Funny the way you can chop and change.

Also a few of my friends are enjoying these easy paces so I still have company when I thought I wouldn’t have.

ariana`

Kellygirl wrote: »

What about 5miles instead? 8km is 4.97 miles so you are very close.

All going well here. Getting used to these easy runs. Did my 4 miles last night at an 11:23 pace (7.09 min/km) and didn’t break a sweat at all but didn’t find it too painful either. Was quite pleasant actually. I did the exact same route last week @ 9.33. Funny the way you can chop and change.

Also a few of my friends are enjoying these easy paces so I still have company when I thought I wouldn’t have.

That's great that it's going well, it'll be interesting to see as your training goes on if it makes a big difference. I found i got used to them too! Find them actually very enjoyable now. And i managed to slow my friends down a bit too, not quite to my easy pace but it's a work in progress

Yeah, i'll use the 5mi option, thanks! My watch measured a small bit over 8km anyhow so it's probably close enough.

Kellygirl

I’ll be interested to see if it makes much difference to your paces when you input the new pb.