'Travellers have a right to a home that is culturally appropriate'

Dr Crayfish

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

They are not part of our society and do not abide by our laws yet they still get lots of stuff for free from us, and then they bite the hand that feeds them.

You have to admire them for how much they absolutely thoroughly take the p*ss out of our Government.

Again, the matter was all argued before the Council of Europe.

Our Government lost.

Now, possibly no one made your "they deserve to live in s**t" argument, because it's a little lowbrow and you patently don't know the first thing about the law in the area.

Do you think it would have swung it? I doubt it.

Help!!!!

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you being obtuse?

Or do you genuinely not know that their are Constitutional and statutory obligations in the area?

If you do not know the basics, are you just here to say "travellers are scum"?

But maybe thats the problem that they dont pay for it so they dont care about it

A Little Pony

People are wary of them because they don't integrate into society. If everyone else is abiding by the law and they see "Travellers" aren't, they get annoyed.

Dr Crayfish

Deleted User wrote: »

Again, the matter was all argued before the Council of Europe.

Our Government lost.

Now, possibly no one made your "they deserve to live in s**t" argument, because it's a little lowbrow and you patently don't know the first thing about the law in the area.

Do you think it would have swung it? I doubt it.

You know I don't really care enough to argue any more, take that as a win for you, if you like. The way they treat their surroundings and themselves for that matter is disgraceful. I'll just carry on with my life but I'm glad I live in central Dublin and will never have these people in my back yard, or anywhere near my parents when they're old for that matter. Preying on the elderly seems to be one of their favourite gigs.

granturismo

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you being obtuse?

Or do you genuinely not know that their are Constitutional and statutory obligations in the area?

If you do not know the basics, are you just here to say "travellers are scum"?

Can you reference the constitution or identify which statute guarantees a culturally specific accommodation to any group.

_Kaiser_

Help!!!! wrote: »

I left Ireland in 1995 & growing up Travellers were never really a problem since I got back they seem to be causing nothing but problems, what changed?

Society changed. Instead of calling out antisocial behavior for what it is and dealing with it appropriately, everything now has a cause that isn't the individuals fault or responsibility.

Add to that an entitlement culture that came with the boom times, and the influence of the worst of American "culture" on social media (which we Irish seem to absorb like a sponge), and you have a situation where those left who DO call out these things as unacceptable or just nonsense are themselves attacked by their "enlightened" brethren.

Result: an environment where those who don't play by the same rules are given pretty much free reign to do what they like, because there'll always be an apologist to defend them :rolleyes:

Wheeliebin30

When will the media tell people the real reason for the carrickmines fire last year?

Everyone afraid to speak the truth.

Dr Crayfish

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

When will the media tell people the real reason for the carrickmines fire last year?

Everyone afraid to speak the truth.

elaborate

seamus

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

When will the media tell people the real reason for the carrickmines fire last year?

Everyone afraid to speak the truth.

There's a file with the DPP, so the media can't say anything that might jeopardise a future criminal proceeding.

lawred2

kylith wrote: »

I used to live near a site in Co. Dublin. Lovely wee houses were built there. It wasn't long before the pipes were ripped out and sold, along with any lead on the roofs, while the people the houses had been built for continued to live in caravans next to the house. You can't help some people.

You shouldn't help some people

Help!!!!

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

The fire started in a place wires should not have been tapped into if you know what I mean.

# not saying anyone living on the site was responsible.

Probably the settled community did it after they dropped off their rubbish at the site;)

bloodless_coup

Do they have the right to put horses on open grass areas in cities, not secure the animals in any way so they go wondering down the street into traffic?

Because that's what I'm looking at out the window right now.

Will I Am Not

I thought they liked living among rubbish in a dump?
Sure why do they proceed to turn every area they stop at into a rubbish strewn kip if they don’t like it?

riffmongous

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

you think a "settled" person would drive into a halting site and start dumping?

They pay the travellers first and then dump, or the traveller takrs it away for them, it's well known I thought?

VinLieger

riffmongous wrote: »

They pay the travellers first and then dump, or the traveller takrs it away for them, it's well known I thought?

Hardly the settled person fault what the traveler does with the rubbish in that case?

The original poster claiming it was settled peoples fault implied that settled people were literally the ones dumping on the halting sites

Mrs OBumble

VinLieger wrote: »

Hardly the settled person fault what the traveler does with the rubbish in that case?

The original poster claiming it was settled peoples fault implied that settled people were literally the ones dumping on the halting sites

You do know it's illegal to dispose of waste to someonw who's not got a waste license, right?

end of the road

A Little Pony wrote: »

People are wary of them because they don't integrate into society. If everyone else is abiding by the law and they see "Travellers" aren't, they get annoyed.

the thing is, everyone else isn't abiding by the law. most people do, but there are a good number across many different communities who don't.

doylefe wrote: »

Do they have the right to put horses on open grass areas in cities, not secure the animals in any way so they go wondering down the street into traffic?

Because that's what I'm looking at out the window right now.

they don't have the right to do that no . you need to alert the council, gardai, and DSPCA.

VinLieger wrote: »

Hardly the settled person fault what the traveler does with the rubbish in that case?

The original poster claiming it was settled peoples fault implied that settled people were literally the ones dumping on the halting sites

under the law it is still the settled person's fault, as you are supposed to use a licenced contractor to dispose of your rubbish. if rubbish is found dumped and the authorities find anything with your name on it, you will be the one fined.

Sue Pa Key Pa

The last thing any traveller would want is a permanent, contactable, traceable address.

VinLieger

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You do know it's illegal to dispose of waste to someonw who's not got a waste license, right?

Yes but again is it the settled person fault what the travelers do with the rubbish as was implied in the original post complaining it is settled peoples fault?

Are travelers not at fault for being part of an illegal dumping operation too?

Also im surprised it took this long for EOTR to see the bat signal about a traveler post in AH expect "travelers can do no wrong" multi quotes resplies from here on out

sbsquarepants

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

It often is the settled community dumping crap at sites by the way

Absolute bullshít.
I would be willing to bet there is not a single case of this actually happening, ever.

Help!!!!

end of the road wrote: »

the thing is, everyone else isn't abiding by the law. most people do, but there are a good number across many different communities who don't.

I dont think anyones disputing that but we dont hear of any other community that doesn't abide by the law blaming everyone else for their own failings

end of the road

Borderfox wrote: »

'Travellers have a right to a home that is culturally appropriate'

They also have the right to pay for it too, same as the rest of us

the "rest of us" don't all pay in full for their homes. plenty in the settled community receive subsidized accommodation.

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

What's the point in even talking about these people any more. The Government and Garda are scared sh*tless of them. Let's just keep giving them even more money and facilities and allow them to continue living as outlaws. Life is too short to think about these things, things that will never change.

the gardai are not scared of travelers, but are under-funded and under-resourced.

VinLieger wrote: »

Yes but again is it the settled person fault what the travelers do with the rubbish as was implied in the original post complaining it is settled peoples fault?

it's their fault for not using a licenced contractor as legally obliged, yes.

VinLieger wrote: »

Are travelers not at fault for being part of an illegal dumping operation too?

they are yes, and the law is there to deal with them.

seamus

end of the road wrote: »

under the law it is still the settled person's fault

Under law they're both at fault - both the illegal contractor and the person who contracted them.

Nevertheless, the travellers choose to dump the rubbish at their site. If they didn't operate this "service" there would be no rubbish. So the reason it's there is because they put it there.

end of the road

seamus wrote: »

Under law they're both at fault - both the illegal contractor and the person who contracted them.

well considering it goes without saying that the illegal contractor has blame, there was no point in me stating the obvious. so you have agreed with what was said, rather then corrected anything, so therefore wasted typing time.

seamus wrote: »

Nevertheless, the travellers choose to dump the rubbish at their site. If they didn't operate this "service" there would be no rubbish. So the reason it's there is because they put it there.

and because someone availed of their services, hence the person availing of their services will also receive sanction from the authorities.

Help!!!!

end of the road wrote: »

the "rest of us" don't all pay in full for their homes. plenty in the settled community receive subsidized accommodation.


the gardai are not scared of travelers, but are under-funded and under-resourced.

At least the " rest of us " pay a certain amount & if you dont pay you go to court

You like rolling out the same old lines. The Gardai are scared of them & people like yourself who will cry about mistreating Travellers

lazybones32

Fcuk them.

Dr Crayfish

end of the road wrote: »

the gardai are not scared of travelers, but are under-funded and under-resourced.

LOL

end of the road

Help!!!! wrote: »

At least the " rest of us " pay a certain amount & if you dont pay you go to court

You like rolling out the same old lines. The Gardai are scared of them & people like yourself who will cry about mistreating Travellers

travelers i believe are supposed to pay rent toards the site, all though that may depend on the individual council. if the council won't enforce that then nothing we can do.

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

LOL

the gardai being under-funded and under-resourced is no laughing matter.

BillyBobBS

Start housing them in places like Foxrock and Ballsbridge and watch how the establishments attitude changes towards them changes. There will be dawn raids on the sites to beat the band.

Help!!!!

end of the road wrote: »

travelers i believe are supposed to pay rent toards the site, all though that may depend on the individual council. if the council won't enforce that then nothing we can do.



the gardai being under-funded and under-resourced is no laughing matter.

Councils are scared of being called "racists " or " Bigots " if you cant see that it is the same with the Gardai then theres no hope for you

If certains members of the community didn't think it was ok to go unto other peoples property to steal then the Gardai wouldn't be under resourced

VinLieger

I love how its the gardai being underfunded that makes travelers commit crimes

Help!!!!

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Start housing them in places like Foxrock and Ballsbridge and watch how the establishments attitude changes towards them changes. There will be dawn raids on the sites to beat the band.

Heard John Connors on radio once complaining that halting sites are always on the out skirts of towns & never in the centre. I'm sure it never occurred to him that towns dont want animals running freely around never mind the kids

Help!!!!

VinLieger wrote: »

I love how its the gardai being underfunded that makes travelers commit crimes

It just encourages them;)

_Kaiser_

Help!!!! wrote: »

Heard John Connors on radio once complaining that halting sites are always on the out skirts of towns & never in the centre. I'm sure it never occurred to him that towns dont want animals running freely around never mind the kids

There's also the point that land in town centres is usually the most valuable and generally restricted in terms of parking etc

But sure, why not give it to them anyway! :rolleyes:

VinLieger

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

There's also the point that land in town centres is usually the most valuable and generally restricted in terms of parking etc

But sure, why not give it to them anyway! :rolleyes:

"Yeah that'll learn those rich people, it wont fix any real problems but it'll really piss em off, how dare they have more money then me"

end of the road

Help!!!! wrote: »

Councils are scared of being called "racists " or " Bigots " if you cant see that it is the same with the Gardai then theres no hope for you

if they have evidence to enforce the law, then no amount of being called racist or bigot will make a difference. so your talking nonsense.

Help!!!! wrote: »

If certains members of the community didn't think it was ok to go unto other peoples property to steal then the Gardai wouldn't be under resourced

if nobody broke the law then of course the gardai wouldn't be under-resourced. but guess what, people break the law and the gardai are under-funded and under-resourced to deal with it.

VinLieger wrote: »

I love how its the gardai being underfunded that makes travelers commit crimes

is it? that's news to me. i thought the gardai being under-funded and under-resourced was the reason they cannot enforce the laws to the standard we would like.

Help!!!!

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

There's also the point that land in town centres is usually the most valuable and generally restricted in terms of parking etc

But sure, why not give it to them anyway! :rolleyes:

Yeah, why have a public park when it could be a halting site. Parked caravans up along the main street, at least they would cover up the empty shops in most towns though

Omackeral

end of the road wrote: »

the gardai are not scared of travelers, but are under-funded and under-resourced.

Saw you using the under-funded and under-resourced excuse in another thread over the last couple of days. There was a group who possibly felt the same as you did EOTR and went and did something about it. They gathered evidence, called the police and handed it all over to the authorities. Amazing right?

How about we get some volunteers to help lighten the load and to assist Gardai with some undesirable elements here too? Not saying go hands on but ya'know, a bit of help from concerned community members.
Wouldn't that be great? Or do you like having the "police haven't enough personnel and time excuse to hand" each time?

Omackeral

end of the road wrote: »

the gardai being under-funded and under-resourced is no laughing matter.

You're right. I might start up a group of concerned citizens and give them a hand. Don't worry, we'll give all evidence over to Gardai and we won't harm anyone physically. I guarantee you it won't be for Facebook likes either. That all okay with you sir/ma'am?

Church on Tuesday

They have, like all other Irish citizens, the right to a roof over their head.

That's all.

riffmongous

VinLieger wrote: »

Hardly the settled person fault what the traveler does with the rubbish in that case?

The original poster claiming it was settled peoples fault implied that settled people were literally the ones dumping on the halting sites

Well it is when they know full well what is going to happen with it.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

One road in an estate near me is a settled site for travellers. You can tell it a mile off by the junk, dirt and litter all over the place. It's totally unfair on the residents in adjacent roads whose properties have no doubt plummeted in price (houses many of them would have bought at already inflated prices during the Celtic Tiger).

There has to be give and take and, if travellers want to take free houses from the state, then they should give back some consideration and respect to the people they live beside.

VinLieger

riffmongous wrote: »

Well it is when they know full well what is going to happen with it.

The travelers make the offer, get paid for it AND dump it on their own halting sites but its entirely someone else's fault, gotta love that apologist garbage logic

end of the road

VinLieger wrote: »

The travelers make the offer, get paid for it AND dump it on their own halting sites but its entirely someone else's fault, gotta love that apologist garbage logic

it's not "apologist garbage logic"
it's accurate fact, on the basis that those using illegal contractors are not stupid and know that it's likely the rubbish will be dumped god knows where.

J.pilkington

I’m familiar with the area so i can summarise the course of events;

1. Dump opens in carrowbrowne

2. Travellers illegally move in beside said dump to steal from the dump

3. Travellers demand halting site beside dump

4. Council buy land and build halting site as requested beside dump

5. Travellers wreck halting site multiple times and make no effort to keep their free accommodation in a respectable state

6. Council repeatedly spends massive massive money repairing / upgrading only for #5 to subsequently reoccur

7. Travellers complain about a. Location (their choice) and b. conditions (their making)

What more can the council do?

FYI, this glorious site reared the men who terrorised that poor old bachelor farmer in Mayo by repeatedly robbing him until the farmer shot one of them.

c_man

VinLieger wrote: »

The travelers make the offer, get paid for it AND dump it on their own halting sites but its entirely someone else's fault, gotta love that apologist garbage logic

The same DNA which makes Travellers literally unable to live in a dwelling without wheels, also makes them entirely blameless for their own actions. Council of Europe says so.

wakka12

If they card about where they lived then their communities wouldn't look the way they do. Every other sector of society seems to be able to keep their living areas in some manner of cleanliness, at least to the extent that they wouldn't be literally confused for a dump

riffmongous

VinLieger wrote: »

The travelers make the offer, get paid for it AND dump it on their own halting sites but its entirely someone else's fault, gotta love that apologist garbage logic

It's not apologist garbage, it doesn't exonerate the travellers who do it, but there is plenty of blame to go around. Just because there is an illegal service offered to you doesnt mean you have to take it and the people who do pay for it know exactly what they are doing

shaunr68

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Thought the caravan was culturally appropriate?

Not a modern caravan though. A horse-drawn wooden shed on wheels with no heating, a bucket for a toilet and no running water would be culturally appropriate.

granturismo

doylefe wrote: »

Do they have the right to put horses on open grass areas in cities, not secure the animals in any way so they go wondering down the street into traffic?

Because that's what I'm looking at out the window right now.

No - horses must be kept at a location with an equine premise number.

https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/animalhealthwelfare/animalwelfare/registrationofpremisesanimals/registrationofhorsepremises/