'Travellers have a right to a home that is culturally appropriate'

end of the road

c_man wrote: »

The same DNA which makes Travellers literally unable to live in a dwelling without wheels, also makes them entirely blameless for their own actions. Council of Europe says so.

that must be a different council of a different europe on a different plannet, because the council of europe here on earth said nothing of the sort.

Help!!!!

J.pilkington wrote: »

I’m familiar with the area so i can summarise the course of events;

1. Dump opens in carrowbrowne

2. Travellers illegally move in beside said dump to steal from the dump

3. Travellers demand halting site beside dump

4. Council buy land and build halting site as requested beside dump

5. Travellers wreck halting site multiple times and make no effort to keep their free accommodation in a respectable state

6. Council repeatedly spends massive massive money repairing / upgrading only for #5 to subsequently reoccur

7. Travellers complain about a. Location (their choice) and b. conditions (their making)

What more can the council do?

FYI, this glorious site reared the men who terrorised that poor old bachelor farmer in Mayo by repeatedly robbing him until the farmer shot one of them.

Maybe this is what EOTR is advising the rest of us to do with the old underfunded Gardai lines he comes out with.
There we were thinking he liked Travellers but in fact his motives are more sinister

colm_mcm

Dunno if this has been raised, but is a caravan not culturally appropriate if you're a traveller? Have I missed something?

whisky_galore

granturismo wrote: »

No - horses must be kept at a location with an equine premise number.

https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/animalhealthwelfare/animalwelfare/registrationofpremisesanimals/registrationofhorsepremises/

LoL, good luck with enforcing that!

granturismo

whisky_galore wrote: »

LoL, good luck with enforcing that!

I just posted an answer to a query. Have you tried reporting this scenario to the Dept of Ag and local authority?

jonon9

Fcuk em!

Crea

granturismo wrote: »

I just posted an answer to a query. Have you tried reporting this scenario to the Dept of Ag and local authority?

I have seen a number of newspaper reports where the council have impounded horses and then you get a pic of a sobbing child with their father giving out about the heartless council taking the child's horse and how it's their culture to have horses.

Noveight

There is a better way to live as equal citizens.

Funny really when the last thing many Travellers want is to be equal to the rest of us and why would they? I dare say there is no other group in Irish society that drains so much funding while contributing so little.

A Little Pony

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

They have, like all other Irish citizens, the right to a roof over their head.

That's all.

What law is this?

miece16

i heard the council builds the houses for them, then they gut them out and put the horses in the newly built house meanwhile they continue to live in the caravan

Grayson

miece16 wrote: »

i heard the council builds the houses for them, then they gut them out and put the horses in the newly built house meanwhile they continue to live in the caravan

I heard they have a phobia of stamps and have 4 arses.

Ulysses Gaze

I assume those posters defending Travellers would have absolutely no qualms about a Halting Site being built right next door to where they live?

Red_Wake

miece16 wrote: »

i heard the council builds the houses for them, then they gut them out and put the horses in the newly built house meanwhile they continue to live in the caravan

The horse probably keeps it in better condition tbf.

Church on Tuesday

A Little Pony wrote: »

What law is this?

No law. It's a basic human right.

scamalert

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/gardai-seize-cars-jewellery-and-cash-in-11-cab-raids-in-co-kerry-463231.html

yeah poor em, 9 luxo cars few new built houses and no income and 100k in cash beside other stuff,with no arrests made as they have no proof,how these handy hard working community people get away with such crap with no arrests not paying any tax is beyond African standards to make a case is truly amazing.

my3cents

There are or should I say were culturally appropriate homes for travellers near where I live. They are small bungalows with a massive space to pull in a caravan.

Only "someone or group" has stripped all the plumbing and salable fittings out of them and removed the roof tiles on numerous occasions, more recently they were all set on fire.

So why does anyone bother trying to help these people?

end of the road

scamalert wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/gardai-seize-cars-jewellery-and-cash-in-11-cab-raids-in-co-kerry-463231.html

yeah poor em, 9 luxo cars few new built houses and no income and 100k in cash beside other stuff,with no arrests made as they have no proof,how these handy hard working community people get away with such crap with no arrests not paying any tax is beyond African standards to make a case is truly amazing.

well at least gardai and the cab caried out raids. better then nothing.

whisky_galore

Crea wrote: »

I have seen a number of newspaper reports where the council have impounded horses and then you get a pic of a sobbing child with their father giving out about the heartless council taking the child's horse and how it's their culture to have horses.

I come from a dairy farming background, can I keep a cow in the suburbs as it's my culture? Oh I don't have a shed or anything to keep it in...I suppose that waste ground will do. She'll be happy out, roaming around.

Grayson

whisky_galore wrote: »

I come from a dairy farming background, can I keep a cow in the suburbs as it's my culture? Oh I don't have a shed or anything to keep it in...I suppose that waste ground will do. She'll be happy out, roaming around.

Just wondering, where in the original article did it say that they need to keep a horse.

Sue Pa Key Pa

Church on Tuesday wrote:

No law. It's a basic human right.

Just like decent health care, clean water, safety in our homes. We all have human rights in Ireland but that doesn't mean that we get them.

Will I Am Not

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

I assume those posters defending Travellers would have absolutely no qualms about a Halting Site being built right next door to where they live?

I doubt they would notice. Too busy cooking and cleaning for all the refugees they have taken in.

Ulysses Gaze

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

I assume those posters defending Travellers would have absolutely no qualms about a Halting Site being built right next door to where they live?

That's an old one that has no basis in logic. When did "the ideal neighbour" become the yardstick for applying human rights?

I wouldn't want to live in Pretoria or on a Reservation, all that filth and squalor...but I wouldn't measure the human rights that should be doled out to those who do on that basis.

fmpisces

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/carrowbrowne-of-all-the-land-the-council-had-they-gave-us-the-place-beside-the-dump-3710147-Nov2017/


Not really sure what I think about that. How do you define whats culturally appropriate? On the other hand its not on that their sites are so awful, who's responsible for that though?

And then you get the other side of it where a house is allocated to a traveller family and they abuse it and the rules of their tenancy. I know all to well because the council moved in such a family beside me three years ago. Their youngest child, about 5 years old I'd say, pees and poops outside on the path/road at will. Rubbish is not disposed of the way it's meant to be. Then they go and move in relatives staying in a caravan in their driveway. :mad:

Ulysses Gaze

Deleted User wrote: »

That's an old one that has no basis in logic. When did "the ideal neighbour" become the yardstick for applying human rights?

I wouldn't want to live in Pretoria or on a Reservation, all that filth and squalor...but I wouldn't measure the human rights that should be doled out to those who do on that basis.

You are obsfucating.

And if in applying the yardstick of basic human rights the council in the area you live in decided that they were going to build a halting site 100 m down the road from your house/apartment, would you mind?

SEPT 23 1989

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

You are obsfucating.

And if in applying the yardstick of basic human rights the council in the area you live in decided that they were going to build a halting site 100 m down the road from your house/apartment, would you mind?

He would be handing out business cards on their arrival

Church on Tuesday

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

Just like decent health care, clean water, safety in our homes. We all have human rights in Ireland but that doesn't mean that we get them.

Of course we do. Ireland has a lot of problems, but it's hardly a third world country.

Guy:Incognito

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's an old one that has no basis in logic. When did "the ideal neighbour" become the yardstick for applying human rights?

I wouldn't want to live in Pretoria or on a Reservation, all that filth and squalor...but I wouldn't measure the human rights that should be doled out to those who do on that basis.

How come you and eotr keep cherry picking which posts to reply to?

Guy:Incognito

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

How come you and eotr keep cherry picking which posts to reply to?

Are you new here? :pac:

Sue Pa Key Pa

Church on Tuesday wrote:

Of course we do. Ireland has a lot of problems, but it's hardly a third world country.

If we stop pandering to sections of our society that don't deserve it, we could address some of those problems

Church on Tuesday

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

If we stop pandering to sections of our society that don't deserve it, we could address some of those problems

Who are the sections of society that don't deserve it?

Galwayguy35

Well if the rest of us did like the pavees and let our rubbish pile up it would be something similar to your average halting site, difference is we pay to have it taken away where as they let it build up until the council clear it for them.

These gobsh1tes from The Council of Europe who think they are so hard done by haven't a clue, Travellers spend their whole life leeching off working people and that will never change.

Yet there seems to be lots of money for weddings and funerals.

Gerrup Outta Dat!

A culturally appropriate home? So a run down caravan with a kitchen sink that doubles up as a urinal and a bed big enough for John-Joe and his first cousin?

end of the road

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Well if the rest of us did like the pavees and let our rubbish pile up it would be something similar to your average halting site, difference is we pay to have it taken away where as they let it build up until the council clear it for them.

well, it seems we don't all pay to have it taken away. or at least, some pay to have it taken away by illegal contractors

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

These gobsh1tes from The Council of Europe who think they are so hard done by haven't a clue, Travellers spend their whole life leeching off working people and that will never change.

Yet there seems to be lots of money for weddings and funerals.

the council of europe very much have a clue. we were breaching the law and got caught.

Will I Am Not

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Well if the rest of us did like the pavees and let our rubbish pile up it would be something similar to your average halting site, difference is we pay to have it taken away where as they let it build up until the council clear it for them.

These gobsh1tes from The Council of Europe who think they are so hard done by haven't a clue, Travellers spend their whole life leeching off working people and that will never change.

Yet there seems to be lots of money for weddings and funerals.

From my experience, travellers just don’t believe in paying for certain services.
Refuse collection, insurance, VRT among other things.

There’s 2 families living not too far away and they fill their wheelie bins during the week and bring them to the far end of the green to empty and burn the contents.
They just don’t comprehend that they are doing anything wrong.

Of course when it come to anything they are entitled to they know the game inside out.

Galwayguy35

end of the road wrote: »

well, it seems we don't all pay to have it taken away. or at least, some pay to have it taken away by illegal contractors.

Are you including yourself in this group?

Galwayguy35

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

From my experience, travellers just don’t believe in paying for certain services.
Refuse collection, insurance, VRT among other things.

There’s 2 families living not too far away and they fill their wheelie bins during the week and bring them to the far end of the green to empty and burn the contents.
They just don’t comprehend that they are doing anything wrong.

Of course when it come to anything they are entitled to they know the game inside out.

Yeah and they all drive around in vehicles that are nearly new, but sure I suppose we could all do that if we didn't have to pay tax, mortgages or rent.

end of the road

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Are you including yourself in this group?

i'm not no .

SEPT 23 1989

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Yeah and they all drive around in vehicles that are nearly new, but sure I suppose we could all do that if we didn't have to pay tax, mortgages or rent.

Transferred a large wedge to revenue this month myself pity I couldn't have headed down to the local showroom instead

marklazarcovic

take them out of the paid for halting sites and the surrounding rubbish, move them into paid for homes in nice estates, watch the rubbish pile up,estates loose value on properties, they know all this. also, i pass carrowbrowne a good bit.. a good number of pricey vehicles in there all the time,cars id never be able to afford as a ordinary working man.

Sue Pa Key Pa

Church on Tuesday wrote:

Who are the sections of society that don't deserve it?

Travellers

Irish Praetorian

One question I never see answered in this threads from the pro-traveller crowd is, how much is the state expected to pay for a 'culturally appropriate' lifestyle? Are the rest of the population in a mugs game for working in order to pay for their rent/mortgage, for their rubbish disposal? Is the state expected to provide the entirety of someone's income just because people purport to be a certain ethnicity?

Moreover, I can't understand where all the defensiveness surrounding traveller issues comes from. It's a fairly regular debate in our societies about how much state largess people should receive, from the elderly in retirement to young families with new children. Yet I struggle to recall the last time a political party so much as broached the issue when it comes to travellers.

Church on Tuesday

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

Travellers

The money that's been spent on accommodation for Travellers isn't going to vastly improve public services in Ireland by itself.

I do agree, however, that furnishing accommodation for most Travellers appears to be a bit pointless, as said accommodation is often essentially destroyed.

It's a human right for someone to have a roof over their head and that applies to Travellers also, but it's a nonsense that said accommodation has to be "culturally appropriate".

the_syco

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

One question I never see answered in this threads from the pro-traveller crowd is, how much is the state expected to pay for a 'culturally appropriate' lifestyle?

Unlimited amounts. They'd get the government to buy them a caravan when they turn 18 if they could!

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Are the rest of the population in a mugs game for working in order to pay for their rent/mortgage, for their rubbish disposal?

Yes.

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Is the state expected to provide the entirety of someone's income just because people purport to be a certain ethnicity?

Yes.

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Yet I struggle to recall the last time a political party so much as broached the issue when it comes to travellers.

I'd assume that they're afraid that the travellers would set up camp outside their house if they did.

SEPT 23 1989

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

One question I never see answered in this threads from the pro-traveller crowd is, how much is the state expected to pay for a 'culturally appropriate' lifestyle? Are the rest of the population in a mugs game for working in order to pay for their rent/mortgage, for their rubbish disposal? Is the state expected to provide the entirety of someone's income just because people purport to be a certain ethnicity?

Moreover, I can't understand where all the defensiveness surrounding traveller issues comes from. It's a fairly regular debate in our societies about how much state largess people should receive, from the elderly in retirement to young families with new children. Yet I struggle to recall the last time a political party so much as broached the issue when it comes to travellers.

If a political party openly got tough on this issue especially in country areas they would not need to worry about getting elected again

Sue Pa Key Pa

Church on Tuesday wrote:

The money that's been spent on accommodation for Travellers isn't going to vastly improve public services in Ireland by itself.

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear, I meant that ANY money spent on travellers is not deserved and could be better used elsewhere

Richard Hillman

Everybody has a right to own their own home.

People do not have a right to a free compound, with high walls and multiple homes where only their family members can live in.

They don't want homes, they want free mini estates. What planet are these people on?

Church on Tuesday

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear, I meant that ANY money spent on travellers is not deserved and could be better used elsewhere

Genuinely won't make much of a difference.

end of the road

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Everybody has a right to own their own home.

People do not have a right to a free compound, with high walls and multiple homes where only their family members can live in.

They don't want homes, they want free mini estates. What planet are these people on?

plannet earth, where they won't be getting a free compound, with high walls and multiple homes where only their family members can live in.

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear, I meant that ANY money spent on travellers is not deserved and could be better used elsewhere

the european council + all the relevant laws say such money for travelers is deserved.

Sue Pa Key Pa

Church on Tuesday wrote:

Genuinely won't make much of a difference.

If it saw a few children through life enhancing operations it would be worth it. Give our scarce resources to those who deserve them and withdraw them from those taking the plss

Sue Pa Key Pa

end of the road wrote:

the european council + all the relevant laws say such money for travelers is deserved.

They also say cucumbers should always be straight.