Apartment Balcony

ddub11

Hoping for some help here,
My decking on my Balcony is damaged and needs completes replacing including the frame the decking sits on and the frame is screwed into the balcony and there lies the problem.

Because i need to replace the frame which is screwed to the balcony(structure)the management company insist on me using a registered insured company to do the job as there is a risk if the job is done wrong it could effect the structure.

Now i understand there point, however seems as the structure is going to be involved (by means of decking frame being screwed into it)would it not be up to the management company to undertake the repairs as technically speaking the balcony is structure and this is their responsibility?

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ddub11

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As in most cases the balcony is owned by the management company and its mine to use(no problem with that as its the norm in apartment living),but its a Gray area when it comes to maintenance.

If there was an issue with the actual balcony structure they would deal with it but my issue is my decking needs complete replacing which means there would be drilling into the balcony floor(structure)and because of this they insist i use registered insured company but i feel if they make such demands because structure is involved then surely its up to them to do the job them selves.

Its seems on the one hand they are responsible for the structure and on the other hand they don,t want to know despite insisting on me getting registered/isured company to do the job.

So my question is should they not be doing the work seems its connected to the structure?Hope that all makes sense.:)

Brego888

The management company recently carried out assessments on all balconies in my complex and repairs on those that needed it. The management of company paid for it.

silent_spark

Is the damage cosmetic or structural?

Chris_5339762

ddub11 wrote: »

As in most cases the balcony is owned by the management company and its mine to use

Then the management company must fix it. Technically, it isn't yours to fix!

ddub11

Brego888 wrote: »

The management company recently carried out assessments on all balconies in my complex and repairs on those that needed it. The management of company paid for it.

Ye i can understand that but what about damaged decking?as i said my issue is the decking is screwed into the structure and as it is i feel then they should undertake the repairs but they say they are not responsible for the repairs.

Now while i can understand their stance if it was simply decking repair/replacement my issue is the decking needs complete replacement and as its screwed to the structure then they should undertake the repairs as they are responsible for the structure of the building.

I understand its not straight forward,just looking for opinions or advice on this issue.

cruizer101

Is the balcony a solid concrete one or a metal frame. Does the decking frame necessarily need to be screwed to the balcony structure or could it just sit on it its weight holding it in place.

ddub11

silent_spark wrote: »

Is the damage cosmetic or structural?

Guess thats the issue,the decking needs replacing so that is probable cosmetic however its screwed into the balcony and the balcony is structure:)so i guess ye could say its both.

ddub11

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Then the management company must fix it. Technically, it isn't yours to fix!

But they say there responsible for the structure only.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Were you planning on doing a DIY job on it?

ddub11

cruizer101 wrote: »

Is the balcony a solid concrete one or a metal frame. Does the decking frame necessarily need to be screwed to the balcony structure or could it just sit on it its weight holding it in place.

Its a concrete balcony,to be honest with you i am presuming it is some how bolted?screwed down im completely hopeless when it comes to stuff like this how ever you have giving me something to think about now as if its not bolted /screwed down i may be able to get a handyman to do it on the cheap.:)

ddub11

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

Were you planning on doing a DIY job on it?

Was planning on getting a handyman to do it but then the issue came up with the frame being connected to the structure and management company insisting on registered /insured company.

How ever as a previous poster has brought to my attention it may not be screwed to the structure i could get a handyman if that was the case.

Im not sure if the management co told me it was screwed down or if i simply presumed it was but its something i will have to look into.

Balcony's a mess and its annoying me looking at it.:)

James 007

ddub11 wrote: »

Guess thats the issue,the decking needs replacing so that is probable cosmetic however its screwed into the balcony and the balcony is structure:)so i guess ye could say its both.

No not correct.

The balcony rails whether steel or glass in fill and the structural floor whether its steel, timber joists or both or concrete is for the management to fix. its all considered structural.

If it is only timber decking like the link below, then it is yours to fix, its considered non structural.
https://www.woodies.ie/alce-2-8x12x240-decking-impregnated-pine-wood-1117079?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=Cj0KCQiAgNrQBRC0ARIsAE-m-1wTazamrJP-4BBOjSYPxMAos2aQNk0hUv6M-BP93f6MgMKe2RJbNGMaAjuSEALw_wcB

Its the same as the kitchen tiles if broken you need to replace. The floor supporting the tiles (whether plywood on timber or concrete slab) is considered structural, therefore the management look after this.

However, if the depth of the timber decking depth is alot 'fatter' lets say and it spans or is supported by steels then it most likely would be structural.

Marcusm

ddub11 wrote: »

Its a concrete balcony,to be honest with you i am presuming it is some how bolted?screwed down im completely hopeless when it comes to stuff like this how ever you have giving me something to think about now as if its not bolted /screwed down i may be able to get a handyman to do it on the cheap.:)

If it’s a concrete balcony then the decking should be screwed into a frame which sits on top of but is not screwed to the balcony. That is how it’s done in circumstances like this where a permanent fix to the structure would require freeholder/ONC consent. It would be an odd concrete balcony which required the deck to be screwed to it.

Toots

Brego888 wrote: »

The management company recently carried out assessments on all balconies in my complex and repairs on those that needed it. The management of company paid for it.

We live in the same complex :pac: I'd actually reefed up my decking years ago because it was completely rotten through. My husband was able to lift it in pieces by hand because it was so rotten it was just soft. Management company paid for it, but the costs have all been passed to the residents when the fees went through the roof last year.

ddub11

Toots wrote: »

We live in the same complex :pac: I'd actually reefed up my decking years ago because it was completely rotten through. My husband was able to lift it in pieces by hand because it was so rotten it was just soft. Management company paid for it, but the costs have all been passed to the residents when the fees went through the roof last year.

Interesting you say the management co paid for it,guess this is something i will have to look into a bit more.

Tigerandahalf

Ask your management company to show you where in the lease contract does it say the occupier owns the balcony. You might have sole use but I doubt that means its structure is your responsibility.

The balcony should be structural. Your own insurance only covers contents and liability within your own space.

Let's say the decking was damaged and a visitor fell and broke their ankle who would cover the insurance side? The decking on the balcony to me would be structural and the responsibility of the mgt company as the decking is part of the building's structure.

Ensuring it was clean and not full of hazards would be your insurance responsibility.

It raises interesting questions for anyone thinking of investing in one.

ddub11

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Ask your management company to show you where in the lease contract does it say the occupier owns the balcony. You might have sole use but I doubt that means its structure is your responsibility.

The balcony should be structural. Your own insurance only covers contents and liability within your own space.

Let's say the decking was damaged and a visitor fell and broke their ankle who would cover the insurance side? The decking on the balcony to me would be structural and the responsibility of the mgt company as the decking is part of the building's structure.

Ensuring it was clean and not full of hazards would be your insurance responsibility.

It raises interesting questions for anyone thinking of investing in one.

Think we may be getting our wires crossed here.

Im not saying the balcony is mine (i own the apartment buy understand while i have full use of the balcony i dont own it, same as my parking spot)

And the balcony is structural and the balcony its self would be covered by block insurance,but the question is who is responsible for the decking( IF )its screwed into the balcony floor.

While i appreciate everyone's input it is interesting that no body seems to have a clean cut sure answer.

I would like to think decking was part of the structure as i didnt put it down (it was down when i bought the apartment new)but the management company think different.
I just need some example or proof to put to them that its their responsibility.

Tigerandahalf

ddub11 wrote: »

Think we may be getting our wires crossed here.

Im not saying the balcony is mine (i own the apartment buy understand while i have full use of the balcony i dont own it, same as my parking spot)

And the balcony is structural and the balcony its self would be covered by block insurance,but the question is who is responsible for the decking( IF )its screwed into the balcony floor.

While i appreciate everyone's input it is interesting that no body seems to have a clean cut sure answer.

I would like to think decking was part of the structure as i didnt put it down (it was down when i bought the apartment new)but the management company think different.
I just need some example or proof to put to them that its their responsibility.

Unfortunately these things often aren't clarified until a case in court. Have you read the mgt company's contract and is there any mention of the balcony?

I would see the balcony as a structure/mgt company responsibility - even the decking on top is part of the structure. Also if you did works on it yourself you may be leaving yourself open to liability if anything happened on it afterwards. It is something you should ask your contents' insurance company re liability for the balcony area.

By the way who is responsible for painting the exterior of your apt block - individual owners or the mgt compang does it?

ddub11

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Unfortunately these things often aren't clarified until a case in court. Have you read the mgt company's contract and is there any mention of the balcony?

I would see the balcony as a structure/mgt company responsibility - even the decking on top is part of the structure. Also if you did works on it yourself you may be leaving yourself open to liability if anything happened on it afterwards. It is something you should ask your contents' insurance company re liability for the balcony area.

By the way who is responsible for painting the exterior of your apt block - individual owners or the mgt compang does it?

As you can imagine reading contracts of that nature is next to madness you would never understand the legal talk:)
You are correct when you talk about leaving yourself open to liability should i attempt any repairs myself and in fairness to the management co perhaps this is why they insist on a company that is registered and insured to do the job.

Funny you should mention the painting of the outside of the building,as during the summer the management co had the outside if the buildings painted and one morning i went out onto my balcony (which had damaged decking) and lo and behold my balcony had been painted :)they had got a lift of some kind ( id seen them around the area)and higher d themselves up (im on the top floor)and got into my balcony and painted the walls.

All of this without notice that they would be doing this:).

PS that would have been interesting had they have tripped and hurt them selves on the damaged decking.

bduffy

Post the photo, then you'll get better suggestions.
Two options:
1: Put fresh decking on top (cons: looks strange, lose 36mm - assuming it's 18mm board on top of 18mm lats, and it might be uneven to stand on)
2: tear up rotten decking and replace with fresh decking and leave it sitting there (assuming it can't go anywhere in a fixed space).

I've put up decking on steep slopes and making sure there is a fall/camber helps with drainage....

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ddub11

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IF it was a simple replacing of decking there is no real safety issue that an everyday handyman couldn't deal with.

But your correct,as it maybe screwed into the balcony floor there are safety issues and i would have to use a registered company and iv no problem with that.

My issue is if its connected to the balcony floor and the management company insist on a registered company then surely (if they feel they have the rite to insist on this because its connected to the structure)they should undertake the repairs.

As i have said if they feel they can call the shots on this because its connected to the structure then surely as the structure is their responsibility they should look after it.

It cant be both ways....they call the shots when it involves the structure how ever i have to pay for the work done...i think that is a bit unfair.

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CIARAN_BOYLE

The decking is your optional extra to your balcony but to put it in you need to damage the structure. Whether by drilling into it or otherwise. Some apartments actually forbid decking works on balconies (and people just put down some sort of mat) so be glad that's not your case.

So they are saying this decking is yours and you can put it in but make sure you don't damage mystuff when you do so and use a professional that i can sue if he does damage anything.

ddub11

ddub11 wrote: »

As in most cases the balcony is owned by the management company and its mine to use(no problem with that as its the norm in apartment living),but its a Gray area when it comes to maintenance.............

There should be no grey area.
Exterior work is not your gig.

Paulw

We recently replaced all decking on the wooden balconies. All done and paid for by the management company. It was done to replace damaged/rotten wooden decking. This sort of thing needs to be done every 10-15 years anyway, so should be within the remit of the management company.

If I were you, I would be chasing them to do it, as rotten decking would make it unsafe and a health hazard, which they would be liable for.

James 007

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

The decking is your optional extra to your balcony but to put it in you need to damage the structure. Whether by drilling into it or otherwise. Some apartments actually forbid decking works on balconies (and people just put down some sort of mat) so be glad that's not your case.

So they are saying this decking is yours and you can put it in but make sure you don't damage mystuff when you do so and use a professional that i can sue if he does damage anything.

I think he really needs written clarification on this. Who is responsible for what. Take photos and ask the management company for written clarification.

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ddub11

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I think my situation is unique,this is not an upgrade or some small job that needs doing.
And the issue is more about who has responsibility for the repairs me or the management co,and the reason why i suggest the management company is because the repairs effect the structure of the balcony and according to the management company they themselves are responsible for the structure.

You seem to be implying that i am just looking for them to pay for standard work/repairs that need doing when that is not the case.

I would have no problem paying for my own repairs if it was left to me to do as i please,how ever the management company are putting down rules and conditions and feel they can do this because it involves work on the structure,so my point is if they think they have the rite to do this because structure's involved well then seems as it is their responsibility then they should look after it.

In regards to fee,s no matter how helpful or conservative i am my fees always go up so i honestly don,t think it makes a difference despite the numerous news letters (which are a waste of money,money that i pay them)that they send out to me reminding me of how we can save money.