Will Leo be the shortest serving taoiseach in history?

FrancieBrady

George Sunsnow wrote: »

That’s also I suppose convenient for the narrative ie excluding the fact The EU 26 vote on the deal and influence it along with the EU 1
The weaker you’re perceived to be the stronger priority other countries interests take

What are you on about?
Who in the 27 has a stronger priority around the border issue than us?

Christy42

George Sunsnow wrote: »

That’s irrelevant
Europe isn’t watching Dáil report
They’re only reading the damaging faux controversy headlines

I don't think the mainland European negotiators are putting too much stock into the Sun.

They will have asked the Irish counterparts and checked out who are the main players in a possible election and will have examined each of their views on the issues they care about. They will have seen that they largely align with one another and then gone on about their business as usual.

What the general population of mainland Europe or the UK think of the current situation is irrelevant and I doubt many care. The people this affects will have checked out the details.

These negotiations will go on for a while and there will be changes of government all over Europe during the time period cos democracy and such. This is not a big deal for them.

Anyone from Ireland discussing this with officials from abroad will also be reinforcing this message if they are doing their job.

Unfortunately I can't see how there won't be a hard border.

George Sunsnow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What are you on about?
Who in the 27 has a stronger priority around the border issue than us?

You know I didn’t say around the border issue,I said their priorities,the other 26 that is
I already get your support for the Sinn Féin game,I just disagree with it
There’s no need for obfuscation to Labour that stance,I’ve already understood it (around lunchtime actually)

FrancieBrady

George Sunsnow wrote: »

You know I didn’t say around the border issue,I said their priorities,the other 26 that is
I already get your support for the Sinn Féin game,I just disagree with it
There’s no need for obfuscation to Labour that stance,I’ve already understood it (around lunchtime actually)

The only issue regarding us to come up for negotiation before Christmas is the border issue.

What you are on about SF and Labour for, I have no idea.

Kermit.de.frog

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We are not doing the negotiating, the EU of which we are a member, is doing it.
Talk sense here.

Tony Connolly from RTE stated clearly on the BBC that Brussels is taking it's lead from Dublin on this and it is up to Coveney and Varadkar to make the call.

I presume he is pretty well informed and not lying.

Let's be honest the headlines do not make for good reading at this time.

FrancieBrady

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Tony Connolly from RTE stated clearly on the BBC that Brussels is taking it's lead from Dublin on this and it is up to Coveney and Varadkar to make the call.

I presume he is pretty well informed and not lying.

Let's be honest the headlines do not make for good reading at this time.

And they will be the caretaker government in any hiatus and they have consensus.
Mountains being made out of molehills tbh.

George Sunsnow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What you are on about SF and Labour for, I have no idea.

We’ll have to disagree on your knowledge about that too I suppose
Can we Leave our portions of this at that then respectfully

Kermit.de.frog

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And they will be the caretaker government in any hiatus and they have consensus.
Mountains being made out of molehills tbh.

With respect I don't think you fully understand the optics and nuances here. Your argument is that a caretaker government is going to slam a veto on the table in December if things don't go our way?

Do you really believe that?

FrancieBrady

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

With respect I don't think you fully understand the optics and nuances here. Your argument is that a caretaker government is going to slam a veto on the table in December if things don't go our way?

Do you really believe that?

What would stop them when they have already got consensus?

Kermit.de.frog

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What would stop them when they have already got consensus?

No credibility.

Varadkar would, with a straight face, have to give a veto literally on election day!?

It's not politically credible. They would be laughed out of the room.

FrancieBrady

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

No credibility.

Varadkar would, with a straight face, have to give a veto literally on election day!?

It's not politically credible. They would be laughed out of the room.

They can laugh all they want, a veto is a veto.
Are you suggesting there is a way/mechanism that it can be ignored by the UK because we are in the middle of an election?

Dyr

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

No credibility.

Varadkar would, with a straight face, have to give a veto literally on election day!?

It's not politically credible. They would be laughed out of the room.

Can you do every one a favour? Crack open a dictionary and look up the word "veto"

Then blush and desist from posting this guff over and over

Nettle Soup

For anyone that hasn't read it, Katie Hannon's piece on RTE sums this debacle up very well.

https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2017/1126/922943-email-tanaiste/

A must read if you want the truth (and lies).

The email was sent to the secretary general, the assistant secretary in charge of crime and security, and a senior official in the Policing Section as well as the minister’s private secretary, at three minutes to five - just one hour after counsel for the garda commissioner had reaffirmed his instructions at the commission.

It was forwarded on to the minister and her political advisers just seven minutes later.

Jawgap

https://twitter.com/KevDoyle_Indo/status/935073225570226176

FrancieBrady

Jawgap wrote: »

https://twitter.com/KevDoyle_Indo/status/935073225570226176

Good post. Always good to see FF and FG reminded of their origins.

Jawgap

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Good post. Always good to see FF and FG reminded of their origins.

Indeed - but thankfully for Leo both FG and FF have shed those origins and no longer resort to shooting leaders in the back when they're in Cork

FrancieBrady

Jawgap wrote: »

Indeed - but thankfully for Leo both FG and FF have shed those origins and no longer resort to shooting leaders in the back when they're in Cork

Was the excuse not that it was a ricochet? Have they owned up to it yet, I must have missed that?

Water John

Thanks Soup. That Katie Hannon piece is required reading for anyone thinking that this Email was a non entity.
It was explosive. The timelines alone give you that. The Minister didn't want to know.

BillyBobBS

Water John wrote: »

Thanks Soup. That Katie Hannon piece is required reading for anyone thinking that this Email was a non entity.
It was explosive. The timelines alone give you that. The Minister didn't want to know.

In any other country this isn't resigning matter it's a straight out sacking from the leader. The brass neck of FG is stunning.

Jawgap

Apparently the deal to avoid an election is pending......

Shinnerbots......stand down......



....bit of a wasted weekend there for ye, but kudos for the shifts you put in

suicide_circus

BillyBobBS wrote: »

In any other country this isn't resigning matter it's a straight out sacking from the leader. The brass neck of FG is stunning.

Nothing to do with FG in fairness. There is simply no culture of doing the decent thing and falling on ones sword in irish public life.

Nettle Soup

It is great to see the protection of non-whistleblowers like Fitzgerald.

I just wish Fine Gael had offered even 1% of that protection to McCabe.

Damage is done.

suicide_circus

Inverno Pronto wrote: »

What snakes Noirin O'Sullivan and Frances Fitzgerald are, they did not give a fukc about destroying a man to protect their careers.

Being honourable is not valued in irish society. It's all about sleeveenism, a nod and a wink and getting away with it.

JoeyJJ

If this sham government continues you have to question FF on why they continue to prop up this mess.

Good article that...

VinLieger

JoeyJJ wrote: »

If this sham government continues you have to question FF on why they continue to prop up this mess.

Good article that...

Because they arent ready for an election, especially one that will just repeat the current dail makeup with minus or plus 1-2 seats per party

suicide_circus

Fitzgerald was either negligent, incompetent or in cahoots with the garda commissioner to destroy Sgt McCabe. Either way she needs to go.

FrancieBrady

suicide_circus wrote: »

Fitzgerald was either negligent, incompetent or in cahoots with the garda commissioner to destroy Sgt McCabe. Either way she needs to go.

Absolutely the bottom line here.

Anything else is a self serving sham.

_Kaiser_

Jawgap wrote: »

Apparently the deal to avoid an election is pending......

Shinnerbots......stand down......

....bit of a wasted weekend there for ye, but kudos for the shifts you put in

I do love this nonsense that anyone who critcises FG and their corrupt/incompetent/wasteful (delete as applicable depending on scandal) antics is automatically a "Shinnerbot" :rolleyes:

Says a lot more about you (FG and their fan club) than them

JoeyJJ

Not ready not good enough. Either the gov goes or the Minister does. Wonder what Enda would have done.

_Kaiser_

JoeyJJ wrote: »

Not ready not good enough. Either the gov goes or the Minister does. Wonder what Enda would have done.

Disappeared for a week while the B-squad of ministers give conflicting soundbites to the media.. then reappeared and declared it all a non-issue :rolleyes:

Specialun

Jawgap wrote: »

Apparently the deal to avoid an election is pending......

Shinnerbots......stand down......



....bit of a wasted weekend there for ye, but kudos for the shifts you put in

I think FG are whankers but I also think SF are whankers. I'm lost on how anyone who has a pop off FG is automatically a murdering loving shinner

Wrongway1985

suicide_circus wrote: »

Fitzgerald was either negligent, incompetent or in cahoots with the garda commissioner to destroy Sgt McCabe. Either way she needs to go.

Yup incredible it's also very relevant that this is not someone who has much more service to give the people she is 67 years old, Shatter got sacrificed arguably because it was leading to more senior figure but that's another story he is just a year younger than her.

Hang head take golden handshake.

Wrongway1985

JoeyJJ wrote: »

Not ready not good enough. Either the gov goes or the Minister does. Wonder what Enda would have done.

Sacked buddy Shatter so...

Seems Leo is on a media platform 24/7 since he got elected, Enda slyed away from that clearly to avoid difficult qs but came out when required enabled him to be more tactical with decisions like this I guess as less insight known.

Jawgap

Specialun wrote: »

I think FG are whankers but I also think SF are whankers. I'm lost on how anyone who has a pop off FG is automatically a murdering loving shinner

I'm all for having multiple pops at FG/Leo (and FF/MM) - but I think it's pretty obvious that the term "Shinnerbot" isn't directed just at someone who is merely anti-government or even anti-authority.....its the ones who run the MOPE'ry arguments, the whataboutery and who don't just play on semantics, they positively do Riverdance on them, in support of the shinners

And does anyone assume a poster who is anti-FF or anti-Fg or anti-Leo is automatically pro-shinner? I certainly don't given the plurality of views out there.

bnt

Remember that "history" in this context is less than 100 years, so records such as that don't mean all that much ...

FrancieBrady

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

Yup incredible it's also very relevant that this is not someone who has much more service to give the people she is 67 years old, Shatter got sacrificed arguably because it was leading to more senior figure but that's another story he is just a year younger than her.

Hang head take golden handshake.

The FG PR dept has been very strong on pointing to the Ministers record and all the good she has done. Regina Doherty was pushed out last night to act doleful and sad on the ministers behalf in this respect, Simon Coveney pleading again this morning.

Nobody is saying she hasn't done some good, I struggle to think of a minister who has been all bad.
The point is the buck stops with her. If FG refuse to accept that, then the buck stops with the Taoiseach and his government.
If MM does a sham deal on this he will weaken himself in his own party. Pretty simple politics really at the end of the day.

suicide_circus

^^^the line that will be trotted out is the need for stability re brexit which is a fair point regarding a potential election but dosnt excuse Fitzgerald staying on.

FrancieBrady

suicide_circus wrote: »

^^^the line that will be trotted out is the need for stability re brexit which is a fair point regarding a potential election but dosnt excuse Fitzgerald staying on.

IMO Varadkar is holding us to ransom on that issue.

But I'm ready for a nice winter walk to the polling station. I think the 'country doesn't need an election' stuff is a bit over done.

You always need an election when the arrogance of power gets too ingrained. And to a large degree that is what is wrong here, note the absolute anger of FG when they were questioned on this matter.

Nettle Soup

FrancieBrady wrote: »

IMO Varadkar is holding us to ransom on that issue.

But I'm ready for a nice winter walk to the polling station. I think the 'country doesn't need an election stuff is a bit over done.

You always need an election when the arrogance of power gets too ingrained. And to a large degree that is what is wrong here, note the absolute anger of FG when they were questioned on this matter.

When all is said and done Irish people love a good election!

I think Fine Gael might kick the can down the road here and let Fitzgerald appear at the Disclosures tribunal. She will have 6 weeks to get her story straight and provide all the evidence (some hope!).

McCabe should watch his back in the meantime (he has been doing so for years). The poor man is the victim here but FG politicians don't see that.
I am embarrassed I voted Fine Gael in the last 2 elections.

Does anyone actually believe that the Gardai have provided all their smear campaign evidence to the tribunal - not a hope in hell!

Odhinn

Jawgap wrote: »

I.................... "Shinnerbot" is.........................shinners

..................y pro-shinner?.........................

Obsession....not just a perfume with an arty ad campaign

FrancieBrady

Nettle Soup wrote: »

When all is said and done Irish people love a good election!

I think Fine Gael might kick the can down the road here and let Fitzgerald appear at the Disclosures tribunal. She will have 6 weeks to get her story straight and provide all the evidence (some hope!).

McCabe should watch his back in the meantime (he has been doing so for years). The poor man is the victim here but FG politicians don't see that.
I am embarrassed I voted Fine Gael in the last 2 elections.

Does anyone actually believe that the Gardai have provided all their smear campaign evidence to the tribunal - not a hope in hell!

Get the popcorn in and watch FF and FG tear strips off one another to gain maybe 2 or 3 seats more.
Prime entertainment.

A Little Pony

An election probably should happen.

Jawgap

Odhinn wrote: »

Obsession....not just a perfume with an arty ad campaign

My bad.....I presumed that term was still in SF's newspeak.....

https://twitter.com/GerryAdamsSF/status/614780923586981889

I assume now he's on his way such terms will be oldthink under the new regime's thinkpol.

Nettle Soup

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2017/02/13/how-did-he-get-here/

Long but interesting article.

Time and again, McCabe is proved right and the only response by the Gardai is to target him again and again.
They were convinced he would give up. Extraordinary character not to.

Odhinn

Jawgap wrote: »

My bad.....I presumed that term was still in SF's newspeak.....



I assume now he's on his way such terms will be oldthink under the new regime's thinkpol.

Why not start a thread.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

So are we having an election or not.

Hitman3000

Leland Slimy Misfortune wrote:

So are we having an election or not.

No news till later as too whether FF have bottled it. SF no confidence vote still to be tabled.

backspin.

I don't think there will be an election its like two guys pretending they are going to fight and their mates are holding them back. None of them want to fight and will look for the first chance to climb down.

Hitman3000

backspin. wrote:

I don't think there will be an election its like two guys pretending they are going to fight and their mates are holding them back. None of them want to fight and will look for the first chance to climb down.

The damage is already done to the supply and confidence arrangement. The only issue now is when the election will happen. Late this year or early next year.