The Frances Fitzgerald controversy. Are we heading for an election?

hotmail.com

Leo has said he's standing by Frances. So it looks like an election now. How ridiculous does this have to get for Leo to sack her? He seems completely our of his depth and the blame for an election will be his now.

Beechwoodspark

Media briefed that the FG position on Fitzgerald hasn't changed

Odhinn

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Media briefed that the FG position on Fitzgerald hasn't changed

That makes no sense at all.

Water John

Don't be silly. She is at present writing her resignation letter FFS.
Leo asked for the trawl. Michael and Leo had the political balls on each side to wait for the results.

LuckyLloyd

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Media briefed that the FG position on Fitzgerald hasn't changed

That's mad stuff. They obviously feel the polls are with them. And, obviously, they don't give a flying fiddle about doing the right thing.

Hitman3000

Seems likely so it won't be just Carol singers calling to our doors. Wrap up warm guys, it'll be cold.

Hitman3000

LuckyLloyd wrote:

And, obviously, they don't give a flying fiddle about doing the right thing.

That sir is the Irish politician in all their glory.

Water John

Martina Fitzgerald as much as said FG TDs knew the game was up for Frances.

Maybe someone deluded is thinking they can salvage something in their talks with FF.

McMurphy

markodaly wrote: »

You put in a Taoiseach as well, which is absurd.

Enda"s departure was most definitely expedited due to Maurice McCabe. The calls for him to go where directly in relation to controversies surrounding him (McCabe). To argue otherwise would be naivety in the extreme.

You do remember Enda Kenny. Right?

Beechwoodspark

21:08
Latest from Sarah Bardon...

A spokesman for Taoiseach says the Government position on Frances Fitzgerald has not changed.

McMurphy

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

21:08
Latest from Sarah Bardon...

A spokesman for Taoiseach says the Government position on Frances Fitzgerald has not changed.

Great


Looking forward to the election. It'll shorten the run up to Christmas.

Fann Linn

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Media briefed that the FG position on Fitzgerald hasn't changed

Could Fitzgerald have anything on Leo?

sdanseo

Fann Linn wrote: »

Could Fitzgerald have anything on Leo?

If she does there'll be some fireworks. And the FF cheering in the Dáil bar will be made look like a quiet night in.

markodaly

Rick Shaw wrote: »

Enda"s departure was most definitely expedited due to Maurice McCabe. The calls for him to go where directly in relation to controversies surrounding him. To argue otherwise would be naivety in the extreme.

You do remember Enda Kenny. Right?

Enda left because of the poor performance in GE 2016, not because of McCabe.

JohnBoy26

markodaly wrote: »

Enda left because of the poor performance in GE 2016, not because of McCabe.

Why didn't he leave directly after the election then?

devnull

Rick Shaw wrote: »

Enda"s departure was most definitely expedited due to Maurice McCabe. The calls for him to go where directly in relation to controversies surrounding him. To argue otherwise would be naivety in the extreme.

You do remember Enda Kenny. Right?

Remind me, how many dodgy things was Bertie involved in?

All of them were much worse than this.

And how many years did Bertie last despite this?

Sierra Oscar

https://twitter.com/SarahBardon/status/935257535300423683

Sarah Bardon, Irish Times wrote:

Spokesman for Taoiseach also confirms he knew of existence of other emails on Friday and continues to support Tanaiste

Are Fine Gael really going to trigger an election over this? How can they expect Fianna Fáil to vote confidence in her after all of this? Even Brendan Howlin is saying tonight that she has to go. He was against the no confidence motion being tabled up until today.

Water John

The poor performance can be linked to McCabe in two ways. The polls started to turn against FG at the time that McCabe was being villified.Always thought they were linked. The second was Enda's attempt to shaft Zappone which was seen as the end of the line for Enda.

BTW, FG TDs believe the game is up now.RTE now.

tomwaterford

devnull wrote: »

Remind me, how many dodgy things was Bertie involved in?

All of them were much worse than this.

And how many years did Bertie last despite this?

Berties long gone kid?
(And hopefully is acceptance of open corruption)



This mess is entirely of fg own making

sdanseo

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

https://twitter.com/SarahBardon/status/935257535300423683



Are Fine Gael really going to trigger an election over this? How can they expect Fianna Fáil to vote confidence in her after all of this? Even Brendan Howlin is saying tonight that she has to go. He was against the no confidence motion being tabled up until today.

He was against an election (and therefore presumably the motion) but called for her to go over the weekend, if not even earlier.

JohnBoy26

devnull wrote: »

Remind me, how many dodgy things was Bertie involved in?

All of them were much worse than this.

And how many years did Bertie last despite this?

What much worse than smearing the good name of someone?

Consonata

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Even Brendan Howlin is saying tonight that she has to go. He was against the no confidence motion being tabled up until today.

An election is probably the end of him as leader. That may be why.

devnull

Water John wrote: »

The poor performance can be linked to McCabe in two ways. The polls started to turn against FG at the time that McCabe was being villified.Always thought they were linked. The second was Enda's attempt to shaft Zappone which was seen as the end of the line for Enda.

So it just shows our electorate are hardly the brightest then.

Bertie can commit a whole load of dodgy stuff and people are happy enough to vote for him time and time again because he gives them goodies against the good of the country.

Leo has one issue under his watch and suddenly that should be the end of him?

What are you saying, deceiving the public and wrecking the country is fine as long as the public are given goodies to shut up and simply vote like nothing has happened.

Says a lot about why Ireland is the way it is.

devnull

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

What much worse than smearing the good name of someone?

Bankrupting the country perhaps and committing economic treason perhaps?

You do remember what happened when Cowen and Ahern were in charge.

If it was him no doubt he'd say he didn't have an email account so couldn't have been his fault.

listermint

devnull wrote: »

So it just shows our electorate are hardly the brightest then.

Bertie can commit a whole load of dodgy stuff and people are happy enough to vote for him time and time again because he gives them goodies against the good of the country.

Leo has one issue under his watch and suddenly that should be the end of him?

What are you saying, deceiving the public and wrecking the country is fine as long as the public are given goodies to shut up and simply vote like nothing has happened.

Says a lot about why Ireland is the way it is.

I don't get it are you defending Leo's handling of this knowing what we know now.

Leave anyone else out of it and answer that

Fann Linn

devnull wrote: »

So it just shows our electorate are hardly the brightest then.

Bertie can commit a whole load of dodgy stuff and people are happy enough to vote for him time and time again because he gives them goodies against the good of the country.

Leo has one issue under his watch and suddenly that should be the end of him?

What are you saying, deceiving the public and wrecking the country is fine as long as the public are given goodies to shut up and simply vote like nothing has happened.

Says a lot about why Ireland is the way it is.

Hierarchy of wrongdoing?

McMurphy

devnull wrote: »

Remind me, how many dodgy things was Bertie involved in?

All of them were much worse than this.

And how many years did Bertie last despite this?

Perhaps you'll consider creating a thread about him.

This one is discussing a FG Tanaiste and the mishandling of how whistleblowers were treated.

Water John

Never intimated Leo will or should go!!!
He called the trawl. The result is Frances resigns.
Hope he and Michael follow through with a radical over haul of DOJ and Gardai.

hotmail.com

Perhaps Leo is planning on standing down as well.

horseburger

devnull wrote: »

So it just shows our electorate are hardly the brightest then.

Bertie can commit a whole load of dodgy stuff and people are happy enough to vote for him time and time again because he gives them goodies against the good of the country.

Leo has one issue under his watch and suddenly that should be the end of him?

What are you saying, deceiving the public and wrecking the country is fine as long as the public are given goodies to shut up and simply vote like nothing has happened.

Says a lot about why Ireland is the way it is.

This item about Varadkar might be of interest

https://hiredknaves.wordpress.com/2017/07/13/on-leo-liberalism/

devnull

And if he didn't call for the trawl people would hit out at him for not being transparent.

If he wanted to hide things or push them into the distance he wouldn't have called the trawl at all.....

Nettle Soup

Serious question: Why do our ministers continually put their reputations on the line to protect corrupt Gardaí? What hold do the Gardaí have over them?

Anita Blow

Cannot see how Leo will emerge from this unscathed. If it is true that he knew of these e-mails on Friday, then the scandal isn't that he continued to support her. It's that he knowingly sent out FG TDs to the media afterward to defend her without telling them the scale of her involvement. I can understand why many would be livid about this.

devnull

horseburger wrote: »

This item about Varadkar might be of interest

https://hiredknaves.wordpress.com/2017/07/13/on-leo-liberalism/

That's someone opinion, they're entitled to it but I strongly disagree.

I once lived in D15 and Leo was very helpful for the community which is more than can be said compared to other people in the area who simply didn't want to know so I base my opinions on that about his character.

White Clover

devnull wrote: »

So it just shows our electorate are hardly the brightest then.

Bertie can commit a whole load of dodgy stuff and people are happy enough to vote for him time and time again because he gives them goodies against the good of the country.

Leo has one issue under his watch and suddenly that should be the end of him?

What are you saying, deceiving the public and wrecking the country is fine as long as the public are given goodies to shut up and simply vote like nothing has happened.

Says a lot about why Ireland is the way it is.

Also, don't forget that the department of justice was once under the command of such upstanding citizens as Ray Burke and Pee Flynn!
FF = Snakes.

nuac

tomwaterford wrote: »

It's unfathomable she can survive this??

Its unfathomable people still defend this....seriously poor ethical judgement by people here


Repeatedly lying to the dail....is there a process to impeach a member of the dail?


This late late leak,with a no confidence vote tomorrow has ff over a barrel.

Why bother having the dail (and legal immunity) and people just flat out lie in there and deliberately mislead the public....it's a fcuking joke, in no country would this be anything approaching acceptable/classed as a non issue

How so? Imho Leo, Fitzgerald and Flanagan and their army of spinners are balancng on the barrell. Two happy Cork men tonight - Simon and Micheal

hatrickpatrick

@Devnull, can I ask do you understand how the deflective rhetoric you are employing in this thread, which echoes FG's communications strategy from the time Kenny took office as Taoiseach to the present day, might alienate and piss off non-partisan voters who have no loyalty to any particular party and reassess who to vote for on an ongoing basis?

Genuinely asking because it seems that those in power certainly do not - for you personally, is it that you're unaware of it or you don't care?

In my view it's as short sighted as the Hillary Clinton campaign's "but what about Trump?" rhetoric any time anyone criticised them or asked them to clarify aspects of their platform - and we all know how that turned out in the end.

tayto lover

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Serious question: Why do our ministers continually put their reputations on the line to protect corrupt Gardaí? What hold do the Gardaí have over them?

You're on the wrong track entirely.
You have it the wrong way round.
Governments need control of the Garda, Army and Judiciary.
It's breaking to some extent, outwardly anyway, but there will always be a connection.

Fann Linn

devnull wrote: »

And if he didn't call for the trawl people would hit out at him for not being transparent.

If he wanted to hide things or push them into the distance he wouldn't have called the trawl at all.....

He only did it for FF. Otherwise it was 'no confidence' tomorrow. As it stands he probably will still face it now.

charlie14

Water John wrote: »

Doubt if Coveney is pleased. He's close to Frances. This doesn't send Leo any where. It's he ordered the trawl.

Coveney didn`t stick his neck out for her and I would be of the opinion by his interview with RTE this morning he knew of these latest email then and when looked back on his interview will look statesman like.
Varadkar has invest a lot in this, now looks anything but savvy, and knew of these email since Friday and tried playing chicken with Martin.

There will be outfall from this within FG as many of their TD`s were avoiding Fitzgerald expecting her to be sacked, especially after Varadkar misleading the Dail until Varadkar rallying call for her defence are now feeling as if they have been treated as mugs.

Coveney I believe will stay in the long grass for now watching developments and quietly encouraging dissent.

kevthegaff

This thread is about the tanaiste and taoiseach, not fianna fail

emo72

devnull wrote: »

Remind me, how many dodgy things was Bertie involved in?

All of them were much worse than this.

And how many years did Bertie last despite this?

you know what you done is real bad when you start comparing to bertie.

McMurphy

markodaly wrote: »

Enda left because of the poor performance in GE 2016, not because of McCabe.

Enda left a matter of weeks after calls for him to go from within his own party after being caught up spinning yarns surrounding "Copy and paste administration errors" and trying to throw K.Z under a bus in the process.

You know it. I know it.

I see little point arguing a well known fact, so I think I'll save us both somw time, and just suggest we move on.

devnull

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

@Devnull, can I ask do you understand how the deflective rhetoric you are employing in this thread, which echoes FG's communications strategy from the time Kenny took office as Taoiseach to the present day, might alienate and piss off non-partisan voters who have no loyalty to any particular party and reassess who to vote for on an ongoing basis?

As a centrist voter who has a disliking for populist parties because it's always self interest over that of the country I'm merely giving my view, since I don't have any association with any political party then honestly what people think is totally up to them at the end of the day.

In no way have FG been perfect but having worked in multi-nationals and a number of companies I certainly think they are more capable than a populist led FF. Realistically there is not a huge amount between FF and FG in some areas but honestly the whole populist agenda of FF under Bertie really put me off and I won't forget that in a hurry.

In my view it's as short sighted as the Hillary Clinton campaign's "but what about Trump?" rhetoric any time anyone criticised them or asked them to clarify aspects of their platform - and we all know how that turned out in the end.

Both of the campaigns were ****e though, you have to admit, but hardly the result has worked out for them, Trump honestly is a disaster, I would have easily voted for Clinton, not because she was any good, she was bloody terrible, but I could never vote for Republicans, they are so far to the right and are linked with the kind of organisations that disgust me.

Itssoeasy

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Serious question: Why do our ministers continually put their reputations on the line to protect corrupt Gardaí? What hold do the Gardaí have over them?

Some deference to An Garda Síochána which seems to be a part of the dept of justice. Although how you could show deference to the previous commissioner who at all costs wanted to destroy Maurice McCabe beside he had the balls to call the gardai out on something they shouldn't have been doing I'll never know.

Nettle Soup

Alan Shatter on Ivan Yates tonight at 11pm!!!! :D:D

horseburger

devnull wrote: »

That's someone opinion, they're entitled to it but I strongly disagree.

I once lived in D15 and Leo was very helpful for the community which is more than can be said compared to other people in the area who simply didn't want to know so I base my opinions on that about his character.

He comes across pretty smug and smart assed, in much of his Dáil exchanges.

Hitman3000

White Clover wrote:

FF have tabled a motion of no confidence in the Tanaiste. If they hadn't done that, this thread would not be here!

You miss the fact that SF first suggested tabling a motion of no confidence.FF due to standing orders got in first.

devnull

kevthegaff wrote: »

This thread is about the tanaiste and taoiseach, not fianna fail

Yeah FF have nothing to do with this at all, I mean, not like they tabled a motion of anything. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

McMurphy

devnull wrote: »

Bankrupting the country perhaps and committing economic treason perhaps?

You do remember what happened when Cowen and Ahern were in charge.

Yes we had an opposition calling for more tax breaks and tax cuts, and more giveaway budgets.