The Frances Fitzgerald controversy. Are we heading for an election?

Dank Janniels

Sorry if this is a stupid question and if it was alredy mentioned earlier I apologise, but whats exactly going to happen on Wednesday?. FF+SF will debate +call for a vote against Fitzgerald, Vote means they want her gone, Leo will support her + then FF declare they wont suport the Gov anymore which means a collapsed Dail?
I reckon a good few in oppostition dont really want an election either

Sierra Oscar

The journalists have finally copped on as to what is going on.

Leo is terrified about what is set to emerge.

https://twitter.com/KevDoyle_Indo/status/935275450309513218

Kevin Doyle, Irish Independent wrote:

The only reasonable conclusion to reach at this stage is that Leo Varadkar wants an election. #GE17

tobsey

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The lies that she consistently claimed up until recent days that she only became aware of the legal strategy undertaken by Garda HQ to undermine the credibility and integrity of Maurice McCabe in May 2016 when the information became public.

We now know that, not only did she get three email's alerting her to the fact in May 2015, she also received an extensive briefing from her own officials on how to handle media queries on the matter - after liaising with the Garda Press Office.

Fine Gael's election slogan - let's keep the cover-up going.

https://twitter.com/Mickcliff/status/935265942082408449

Her failure to be up front about this does make me believe that she was in fact involved in this from the very onset. She knew exactly what was going on. Why all the lies otherwise? What is your explanation for the attempted coverup that she has conducted over the last couple of weeks?

You said she was involved in a conspiracy, now you say that you believe she was. You can’t state things as facts and not expect to be called out on them. There is nothing to suggest she was conspiring to attack McCabe.

FrancieBrady

Dank Janniels wrote: »

Sorry if this is a stupid question and if it was alredy mentioned earlier I apologise, but whats exactly going to happen on Wednesday?. FF+SF will debate +call for a vote against Fitzgerald, Vote means they want her gonee, Leo will support her + then FF declare they wont suport the Gov anymore which means a collapsed Dail?
I reckon a good few in oppostition dont really want an election either

Stand alone FF motion tomorrow.

Muahahaha

Matt Barrett wrote: »

As has been asked; you'd have wonder is there more dirt? O'Sullivan was practically put on a pedestal.

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Serious question: Why do our ministers continually put their reputations on the line to protect corrupt Gardaí? What hold do the Gardaí have over them?

For me this has been obvious for at least six months now. Of course I will get accused by Fine Gael hacks on here as having a tinfoil hat. But what the Gardai have on Fine Gael is that Endas govt. instructed the Gardai to come down like a ton of bricks on the water protestors. FG used the Gardai as their enforcers and Noirin and Co. have the smoking gun to prove it. The entire Paul Murphy / Jobstown show trial can be traced right back to instructions from Fine Gael to the Gardai in the Park. Fine Gael always mocked the idea that they were engaging in political policing but the more you look at their backing for the Gardai the more plausible it becomes.

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Alan Shatter on Ivan Yates tonight at 11pm!!!! :D:D

This will be box office viewing, Shatter is going to stick a deep knife into Leo as revenge for the role Leo played in Shatters sacking

Soulsun

Quality TV viewing on a Monday night.

Nettle Soup

Muahahaha wrote: »

For me this has been obvious for at least six months now. Of course I will get accused by Fine Gael hacks on here as having a tinfoil hat. But what the Gardai have on Fine Gael is that Endas govt. instructed the Gardai to come down like a ton of bricks on the water protestors. FG used the Gardai as their enforcers and Noirin and Co. have the smoking gun to prove it.

Interesting theory and you could well be right. The water charge movement certainly scared the establishment (dawn raids on a TD that was easily to be found in Leinster House springs to mind).

Something is holding Leo back and also Noreen was way too smug for many months before she retired with the max pension.
Something is very rotten in our government and police force.

We owe McCabe a massive debt of gratitude for exposing some of the rot.

FrancieBrady

Muahahaha wrote: »

For me this has been obvious for at least six months now. Of course I will get accused by Fine Gael hacks on here as having a tinfoil hat. But what the Gardai have on Fine Gael is that Endas govt. instructed the Gardai to come down like a ton of bricks on the water protestors. FG used the Gardai as their enforcers and Noirin and Co. have the smoking gun to prove it.



This will be box office viewing, Shatter is going to stick a deep knife into Leo as revenge for the role Leo played in Shatters sacking

FG have always had an unhealthy (for democracy) relationship with the Gardai right back to the heavy gang and beyond.

Sierra Oscar

tobsey wrote: »

You said she was involved in a conspiracy, now you say that you believe she was. You can’t state things as facts and not expect to be called out on them. There is nothing to suggest she was conspiring to attack McCabe.

Oh wait and see, there's plenty of mileage left in this story. Lot's to be revealed.

The continuous changing story from Fitzgerald makes me think something sinister is up.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/935232989218463744

This time seven days ago: We don't have any email

Since then:
- Email emerges where Frances was informed
- Dail misinformed over when it was found
- Confirmation that Frances 'noted' email
- Revelation that DoJ and AGS briefed each other (and Minister) over any press queries

tobsey

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The journalists have finally copped on as to what is going on.

Leo is terrified about what is set to emerge.

https://twitter.com/KevDoyle_Indo/status/935275450309513218

I have been thinking about this and I wonder if that is true that Varadkar wants it. The independents and smaller parties would really struggle if there is a snap election at this time of year. The lack of strong parties in the Dail is a real blocker in terms of getting things done. I know people have posted here about being happy that a minority government is held to account in Dail debates, but it really prevents policy from being implemented.

I don’t like the amount of independents in the Dail, and would prefer stronger parties to give stability. It’d be a massive gamble from Varadkar though. I wonder is that the reason for Costello’s case ok the High Court too. Even labour these days would struggle with a snap election. I know he also wants an extra seat in his constituency so that obviously is pushing him too.

hatrickpatrick

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The journalists have finally copped on as to what is going on.

Leo is terrified about what is set to emerge.

https://twitter.com/KevDoyle_Indo/status/935275450309513218

Not sure I follow your thinking - if he's terrified about what is set to emerge, then wouldn't he in fact dread the proposition of an election right in the middle of all this controversy? If something is in the pipeline, surely it would almost inevitably come out before such an election could be held?

Dank Janniels

In the wider scheme of things you have to ask what has an Irish politician to do to get sacked anymore!

Sierra Oscar

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Not sure I follow your thinking - if he's terrified about what is set to emerge, then wouldn't he in fact dread the proposition of an election right in the middle of all this controversy? If something is in the pipeline, surely it would almost inevitably come out before such an election could be held?

I reckon he is calculating that this story will be buried during an election. It probably will too. It's not bread and butter stuff like housing, health and so on. Those issues will dominate the campaign.

Nettle Soup

Simon is down in Cork!
Interesting...

Tell me how

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Simon is down in Cork!
Interesting...

They were all down there today for a funeral of a former minister.

McMurphy

Coveney on CB show pleading for more time. Saying the tribunal has over 230 very important documents and emails that were submitted and needed to go over.

Falling to mention the few that weren't submitted though.

oscarBravo

charlie14 wrote: »

Didn`t stop him getting the cushy job in Europe though...

Ugh. Of all the stupid phrases that have gained currency in what passes for political discussion in this country, that's one of the stupider ones.

On what planet is EU Commissioner a "cushy job"? Does anyone who uses that phrase actually believe that it's an easy job to do? For that matter, how many of the people who use that phrase have the first clue - or give a damn - what the job actually involves?

Water John

Pathetic stalling by FG. Frances is politically accountable in the Dail not at a Tribunal.

sdanseo

Coveney struggling to defend the Tánaiste here. Singing the same tune that's been sung all weekend - "she did nothing wrong".

Calling for her to stay in place until vindicated by the Tribunal. This is very very odd.

Nettle Soup

Fine Gael seem to have one plan now - defer to the tribunal, let the dust settle over Xmas and clean up their cover-up in the next 4-6 weeks i.e. get their story straight.

Water John

Political reality is, that's not happening.

Itssoeasy

We are heading to an election if Simon Coveney is towing the party line in this.

BillyBobBS

Career changing disaster of an interview now from Coveney here on RTE. Shocking to think this is the level of politician we have in our nation.

tayto lover

Fg have been canvassing for several days now I hear.
If that's the case then expect an election.

sdanseo

Wow. Coveney actually just tried to say she didn't know what was going on.

This is ridiculous.

hatrickpatrick

Deferring to the tribunal is exactly the kind of crap I was referencing earlier. It's akin to when a pub's bouncer is accused of beating the sh!te out of a punter, with multiple witnesses and even video evidence, and they respond with "because this matter is under investigation by the Gardai we can't comment".

FG's instinct to stonewall will be the death of this government if somebody with some PR sense doesn't get in there and knock some feckin' sense into them. Indeed, it may be too late for that.

Water John

Coveney will toe the party line until Frances resigns, which is tomorrow. She left that window open in the tweets. She say she feels wronged but will resign.

Leonard Hofstadter

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I reckon he is calculating that this story will be buried during an election. It probably will too. It's not bread and butter stuff like housing, health and so on. Those issues will dominate the campaign.

Possibly, but it could easily happen that there is some 'new' information that we previously weren't told about that emerges during the campaign. Then it's back to square one.

I would have thought she should have been shown the door in light of what's come out this evening.

As a natural FG supporter, I think this is mind-bogglingly stupid on FG's part but of course FG excel at misreading the public and snapping defeat from the jaws of victory, so I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised.

Time to get used to Micheál Martin as Taoiseach methinks!

sdanseo

Jim O'Callaghan (FF)tried to avoid interfering in talks between Martin an Leo - but then caved to CB question. Clearly demanded that Fitzgerald gives up both ministerial and Tánaiste positions.

The Rape of Lucretia

captainspeed wrote: »

Time to get used to Micheál Martin as Taoiseach methinks!

Not for too long though in the rotating with Mary-Lou deal.

Water John

I agree Captain but want Fg to realise that this is untenable and I don't want an election.

Itssoeasy

Jesus Simon coveney should be embarrassed after that performance.

charlie14

oscarBravo wrote: »

Ugh. Of all the stupid phrases that have gained currency in what passes for political discussion in this country, that's one of the stupider ones.

On what planet is EU Commissioner a "cushy job"? Does anyone who uses that phrase actually believe that it's an easy job to do? For that matter, how many of the people who use that phrase have the first clue - or give a damn - what the job actually involves?[/QUOTE

Well it worked out a lot cushier for Hogan than staying around to take the kicking FG got last year of which his water charges played a significant part imo.

BillyBobBS

Water John wrote: »

Coveney will toe the party line until Frances resigns, which is tomorrow. She left that window open in the tweets. She say she feels wronged but will resign.

The damage is done for FG. They are holed below the waterline.

Floppybits

O'Toole laying into him now. Coveaney must be embarassed by this interview. FG is now using think of the children line. ��

Water John

So Coveney wants to wait for the Tribunal and justice there. The one from which key docs were withheld.

McMurphy

FOT touching on the 3 most sensitive documents that were withheld from the tribunal.

Reckons that in itself could be a criminal act.

Simon Coveney comes back into shot. Talks about the importance of the tribunals..... and Brexit.

Leonard Hofstadter

BillyBobBS wrote: »

The damage is done for FG. They are holed below the waterline.

Nah if she resigns it will be out of the news and after a few weeks everyone will have forgotten about it.

Eaten bread is soon forgotten, people will start going back to worrying about bread and butter issues.

I was happy to see FG holding the line over the weekend as I do believe in due process, but now that we're getting closer to the truth Frances' story is becoming less and less credible and frankly it is embarrassing to be defending her at this stage when even senior ministers are privately saying what everyone else is thinking.

I think it is desperate after all FG did to restore the country's credibility that they could go to the public on something like this where FF of all parties are taking the moral high ground. They will get obliterated by the electorate and imagine to let Micheál Martin in as Taoiseach considering he was part of all those Bertie Governments.

The current carry-on is most certainly NOT putting the country first - and the whole point of voting for FG (over say FF or SF in particular) is that they do what they think is right for the country.

Itssoeasy

Switched over to TV3 to see Alan shatter smuggness.

McMurphy

oscarBravo wrote: »

Ugh. Of all the stupid phrases that have gained currency in what passes for political discussion in this country, that's one of the stupider ones.

Up there with "new politics" O.B.

charlie14

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Jesus Simon coveney should be embarrassed after that performance.

So much for my faith in him.

He just ran to the front off the FG lemmings heading for the cliff.

Tell me how

charlie14 wrote: »

So much for my faith in him.

He just ran to the front off the FG lemmings heading for the cliff.

The hypocrisy of all politicians worldwide when the shoe is on the other foot is astounding. Democracy is best forum for determining government in my view but my word they don't make it half hard to not lose all interest in it.

Itssoeasy

charlie14 wrote: »

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Jesus Simon coveney should be embarrassed after that performance.

So much for my faith in him.

He just ran to the front off the FG lemmings heading for the cliff.

Yeah I actually liked Simon coveney as he seemed to be decent enough but that interview was an embarrassment. I hope he gets an extra large Christmas box off Leo varadkar for Christmas after that performance.

charlie14

captainspeed wrote: »

Nah if she resigns it will be out of the news and after a few weeks everyone will have forgotten about it.

Eaten bread is soon forgotten, people will start going back to worrying about bread and butter issues.

I was happy to see FG holding the line over the weekend as I do believe in due process, but now that we're getting closer to the truth Frances' story is becoming less and less credible and frankly it is embarrassing to be defending her at this stage when even senior ministers are privately saying what the public is agreeing with.

Well she doesn`t look as if she is going to resign, so if Varadkar does not now sack her the general election that FG are claiming they do not want are squarely on Varadkars shoulders and nobody else.

Nettle Soup

Nobody on Ivan Yates show can understand what Leo is playing at now.

Sierra Oscar

Katie Hannon is now calling it as it is on Claire Byrne Live - Fine Gael want a General Election. They are about to force a destructive election upon us just weeks from Christmas and in the middle of crucial Brexit negotiations. Nothing short of a disgrace.

Itssoeasy

It seems several FG minsiters and TDs are severally pissed off.

Hitman3000

blanch152 wrote:

The lies that she was involved in a conspiracy?

Who made this claim?

Muahahaha

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Not for too long though in the rotating with Mary-Lou deal.

I threw a few pound on FF-SF as the next Govt. only yesterday at odds of 7/1. Tis down to 5/1 now.

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Career changing disaster of an interview now from Coveney here on RTE. Shocking to think this is the level of politician we have in our nation.

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Jesus Simon coveney should be embarrassed after that performance.

What was Coveney even thinking going on RTE? He has made a huge political mistake doing that interview when all he had to do was keep his powder dry. In a time of political opportunity Coveney has just vastly misjudged which way the wind is blowing.

Water John

Seems Leo needs to sleep on this and wake up to a new reality.