The Frances Fitzgerald controversy. Are we heading for an election?

Nettle Soup

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Katie Hannon is now calling it as it is on Claire Byrne Live - Fine Gael want a General Election. They are about to force a destructive election upon us just weeks from Christmas and in the middle of crucial Brexit negotiations. Nothing short of a disgrace.

Ivan Yates is totally confused by Leo's logic and he usually has the inside track.
They will go into an election defending their McCabe smear for weeks.

Itssoeasy

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Nobody on Ivan Yates show can understand what Leo is playing at now.

Yeah because when you apply logic to this situation it's hard to understand why the FG line is still what it is.

charlie14

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Nobody on Ivan Yates show can understand what Leo is playing at now.

Neither can his own parliamentary party apparently.

Sierra Oscar

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Ivan Yates is totally confused by Leo's logic and he usually has the inside track.
They will go into an election defending their McCabe smear for weeks.

It's simple enough - Leo lacks the leadership to do what is right. He needs to sack Frances Fitzgerald but he can't muster up the courage to do so. She believes she has done no wrong so won't resign, but she clearly has done wrong. Everyone realises that now. Even former Fine Gael Minister's such as Ivan Yates and Alan Shatter admit it ffs.

This could very well be the beginning of the end for Leo Varadkar as Taoiseach and Leader of Fine Gael.

Floppybits

Leo must hate them all in the FG parliamentary party he is willing to throw them all under the bus.

Soulsun

Will there be a December election?

Leonard Hofstadter

Itssoeasy wrote: »

It seems several FG minsiters and TDs are severally pissed off.

Could you blame them, I am as well and I always voted for them number one without fail when I lived in Ireland.

I don't know why anyone in FG could think holding an election is such a good idea - not in light of today's developments.

I (naively) assumed that he agreed to show the Department of Justice records because there was nothing to hide - and certainly no incriminating evidence against FitzGearld (why else would you do such a thing if you knew there was going to be more dirt in it?).

At this stage I'm hoping against hope that someone will grab Varadkar by the short and curlies and knock a bit of sense into him and tell him to cop himself on and get rid of her.

I personally reckon FG is on course for an election result similar to the 2002 meltdown especially if there are some more embarrassing revelations towards the end of an election campaign (which there easily could be).

Water John

Leo may be running with the notion that he is not forced by FF tonight at the meeting. This is for the pleasing of his own FG grassroots, some of which have been on here, defending the indefenceble.

The Rape of Lucretia

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

They are about to force a destructive election upon us just weeks from Christmas

What, democracy is fine but not if it cuts across your office party ?

Leonard Hofstadter

Water John wrote: »

Leo may be running with the notion that he is not forced by FF tonight at the meeting. This is for the pleasing of his own FG grassroots, some of which have been on here, defending the indefenceble.

I don't think there is anyone in FG grassroots backing the party line (and FitzGearld) now. That ship sailed today.

Water John

Hopefully not, but their is blind loyalty by some, in all parties.

Itssoeasy

Water John wrote: »

Leo may be running with the notion that he is not forced by FF tonight at the meeting. This is for the pleasing of his own FG grassroots, some of which have been on here, defending the indefenceble.

The grassroots who voted for Simon coveney for the FG leadership election. I know several FG members and none of them were very enthusiastic about Leo becoming leader. It seems they have been proven right.

brendanwalsh

I want Fitzgerald's head on a stick. Disgraceful. Country is a disgrace. Varadker Is done. Not sure why he isn't hanging her out to dry.

tobsey

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Who made this claim?

Sierra Oscar

FrancieBrady

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

It's simple enough - Leo lacks the leadership to do what is right. He needs to sack Frances Fitzgerald but he can't muster up the courage to do so. She believes she has done no wrong so won't resign, but she clearly has done wrong. Everyone realises that now. Even former Fine Gael Minister's such as Ivan Yates and Alan Shatter admit it ffs.

This could very well be the beginning of the end for Leo Varadkar as Taoiseach and Leader of Fine Gael.

Dunno about that, she is long enough in the tooth to know she is and has been wrong.

Itssoeasy

Matt cooper is as annoying on TV as he is on radio.

Alan shatter seems to be enjoying his time on TV3.

JimmyMcGill

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Matt cooper is as annoying on TV as he is on radio.

Alan shatter seems to be enjoying his time on TV3.

Fairly handed him his arse on a plate there.

Dyr

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Switched over to TV3 to see Alan shatter smuggness.

Still moaning about how he was treated but zero concern about McCabe.

Whats his problem with the top button on shirts? No one needs to see his turkey neck

Tell me how

That young FG lad on CB live did very well in proving he can say no one in the country wants an election......but he still thinks Francis deserves the right to be judged in an enquiry. Got himself on tv towing the party line. Good nights work for him.

Muahahaha

Sierra Oscar

Alan Kelly says on Claire Byrne Live says that there is more to this story to emerge yet. He has been fairly spot on to date. Fine Gael'ers would want to be careful that they don't go too far out on a limb to defend Frances Fitzgerald who is in some serious trouble.

https://twitter.com/MaryERegan/status/935289401361526785

Only possible explanation is that FG want an election. But on what political calculation? Either hubris or fear of more info coming out?

The next revelations should be very interesting.

Tigerandahalf

I get the funny feeling that this has all been planned by FF.
Had the stick of dynamite, got agreement that Adams would step down and FF/SF coalition the outcome.

Can FG hang tough?

brendanwalsh

Fitzgerald is done lads. She has some brass neck not to have resigned yet. Has she lost the backing of FG behind closed doors?

Tell me how

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Fitzgerald is done lads. She has some brass neck not to have resigned yet. Has she lost the backing of FG behind closed doors?

She has Leo and Coveney supporting her. She might have lost the support of some but those that count currently in her corner. Bizarrely.

joeysoap

Coveney defending Frances Fitzgerald as best he could tonight.

If she really really really believes she acted responsibly, well, that says it all.

Noirin had her round her little finger, and exited left before the s*it hit the fan.

Itssoeasy

TV3 saying that Noel rock from FG cancelled his appearance for tonight. I'd say he said "feck this" when asked to go and defend the stance that Francis Fitzgerald has done nothing wrong.

Dank Janniels

Could some FGs vote against her in the no confidence vote?
I assume the whip will be whipped!

Mr.Nice Guy

I agree with O'Toole's comments. There's too much on the line in the next six weeks to then score an own goal with a general election campaign. Fitzgerald needs to put the country first and walk.

Itssoeasy

Jesus Michael fitzmaurice answering questions directly. Jesus that doesn't happen often.

hotmail.com

Leo going to rightly get the blame for this election. Coveney seemingly stupid.

Itssoeasy

Where is Sean Fleming from ? Which proud county is he from ? I can't place his accent.

Nettle Soup

Ivan Yates show is good.

Noel Rock FG pulled out at the last minute.

FG are reeling.

Tomorrow will be historic.

nc6000

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Where is Sean Fleming from ? Which proud county is he from ? I can't place his accent.

Laois

Soulsun

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Ivan Yates show is good.

Noel Rock FG pulled out at the last minute.

FG are reeling.

Tomorrow will be historic.

Historic for what?

Itssoeasy

Michael fitzmaurice asking are some ministers running their departments. He's clearly never seen yes minister.

Soulsun

Is this the greatest game of poker ever?

Sleeper12

hotmail.com wrote:

Leo going to rightly get the blame for this election. Coveney seemingly stupid.

Leo has done his own judgement and credibility harm in the handling of this. He's boxed himself into a corner. Continue to support the unsupportable and cause an election or go back on his word and sack her.

He's actually helped prove FF were right all along. Not good at all imo

charlie14

Soulsun wrote: »

Historic for what?

If there is no whip in operation the number of FG TD`s will vote no confidence in Fitzgerald ?

McMurphy

Something I noted almost a week ago was how Frances Fitzgerald was answering a question she wasn't asked.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105334611&postcount=38

Initially she was claiming that she wasn't involved in any smear campaign against McCabe (which now seems to be lies)

This has shifted to her being legally prevented from interfering (which the AG office have said she wasn't given legal advice on it from them) with the strategy.

Take a look at Frances Fitzgerald (@FitzgeraldFrncs): https://twitter.com/FitzgeraldFrncs?s=09

The question began with when she knew about it. Not what she could do about it.

I cannot get my head around why Leo is defending her.

There's more to come. I'm certain of it.

Soulsun

charlie14 wrote: »

If there is no whip in operation the number of FG TD`s will vote no confidence in Fitzgerald ?

Wow that's interesting
Thanks

hotmail.com

Sleeper12 wrote:

Leo has done his own judgement and credibility harm in the handling of this. He's boxed himself into a corner. Continue to support the unsupportable and cause an election or go back on his word and sack her.

Sleeper12 wrote:

He's actually helped prove FF were right all along. Not good at all imo

And this may hurt FG in the election as the public may punish them for causing this election. I said before that he showed bad judgement by not removing her from the cabinet when he came into office. Had she been a backbencher now, this would not have happened.

blanch152

charlie14 wrote: »

If there is no whip in operation the number of FG TD`s will vote no confidence in Fitzgerald ?

Now that made me laugh. I have never heard of a whip not being imposed for a confidence vote. If you believe that there is a chance of a single FG TD breaking ranks, no matter what they think, you are living in a strange place.

Of course there is a chance that a number of them could go to Leo in advance, but breaking ranks, seriously???!!!!?????

The Rape of Lucretia

Soulsun wrote: »

Is this the greatest game of poker ever?

Its certainly a good one. Leo's handling of it is truly impressive. Even Haughey would be impressed with his masterful playing of his hand here (and Bertram 'must cunning of them all' Ahearn was only an amateur by comparison).
This case of political mastermind will be studied for decades to come and Leo command a reputation among world leaders as the shrewdest of them all once the full game plays out here.
Calling it now : FG majority coalition with just a smidgen of help from the Greens.

Dank Janniels

Soulsun wrote: »

Wow that's interesting
Thanks

but if they do vote dont they lose the whip and this will then lower their majority further?

Itssoeasy

In a bizarre turn of events for the FG party in Waterford John Deasy wasn't put forward for nomination as his party membership has lapsed.

Odhinn

Rick Shaw wrote: »

Something I noted almost a week ago was how Frances Fitzgerald was answering a question she wasn't asked.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105334611&postcount=38

Initially she was claiming that she wasn't involved in any smear campaign against McCabe (which now seems to be lies)

This has shifted to her being legally prevented from interfering (which the AG office have said she wasn't given legal advice on it from them) with the strategy.

Take a look at Frances Fitzgerald (@FitzgeraldFrncs): https://twitter.com/FitzgeraldFrncs?s=09

The question began with when she knew about it.

I cannot get my head around why Leo is defending her.

There's more to come. I'm certain of it.

Indeed. She's shot in both wings at this stage, all by her own doing. Lied to the dail back in 2015/16, ,has e-mails which should have been sent to a tribunal, denied knowing about one despite a note saying otherwise - it's just a disaster on a huge number of levels, raises all sorts of questions about what the real attitude in the DOJ was towards mccabe (treacherous to the extent of actively hostile by the looks of it), why this was so, what conversations took place to allow that attitude to arise......

charlie14

Soulsun wrote: »

Wow that's interesting
Thanks

I was joking. The whips will be in force not that it will make any difference if their is a no confidence vote.

But from reports all over the media on how enraged FG ministers and TD`s are with Fitzgerald, it would have been interesting if the whip wasn`t being applied.

Water John

Alan Kelly gave you the answer. It's because DOJ and the Gardai are tied at the hip.

Loafing Oaf

Odhinn wrote: »

Indeed. She's shot in both wings at this stage, all by her own doing. Lied to the dail back in 2015/16, ,has e-mails which should have been sent to a tribunal, denied knowing about one despite a note saying otherwise - it's just a disaster on a huge number of levels, raises all sorts of questions about what the real attitude in the DOJ was towards mccabe (treacherous to the extent of actively hostile by the looks of it), why this was so, what conversations took place to allow that attitude to arise......

None of this has any bearing on the likelihood of an election as long as she has the support of two key people: Leo Varadkar and, well, herself.

charlie14

Itssoeasy wrote: »

In a bizarre turn of events for the FG party in Waterford John Deasy wasn't put forward for nomination as his party membership has lapsed.

LOL, and him out last week defending Fitzgerald.

Talk about adding insult to injury.