Does Sinn Fein want a hard border?

Maglight

You have got to question the timing of Sinn Fein pushing for a vote of no confidence. In less than three weeks, the EU Summit (14/15th Dec) will decide if enough progress has been made in Brexit talks to start discussions over Britain's future relations with the bloc.

The EU will block those talks if Britain does not spell out how it can keep the border free of customs posts and other barriers after Brexit. The absolute worst outcome for Ireland would be a hard Brexit and a hard border.

Ireland has three weeks to try and get an agreement hammered out with Britain about the border. But rather than putting all their energy into that, the government is suddenly distracted and dealing with the prospect of a December general election.

Why would Sinn Fein do that now? Is it really a point of principle about the Dail being misled? Sorry, I don't buy that. I believe Sinn Fein want a hard border and a hard Brexit. It fits their long term goal of a united Ireland. Divide the country physically. Make life intolerable for people and they will clamour for a united Ireland. It may take years of misery. They will wait. And if lives are destroyed in the meantime? Sinn Fein is still at war, and in war there are casualties. All that matters is achieving their goal.

Fr Tod Umptious

Well SF have always been anti Europe. Any EU referendum they have always opposed.

However when it came to Brexit they changed their tune, they were in the reamin camp because it allowed them to then produce the narrative "NI voted remain, ergo next step is a united Ireland"

But I do exactly see your point about where a divided island would also play into that narrative.

tayto lover

Does Sinn Fein want a hard border?

I'm not sure they know.

Baralis1

Maglight wrote: »

You have got to question the timing of Sinn Fein pushing for a vote of no confidence. In less than three weeks, the EU Summit (14/15th Dec) will decide if enough progress has been made in Brexit talks to start discussions over Britain's future relations with the bloc.

The EU will block those talks if Britain does not spell out how it can keep the border free of customs posts and other barriers after Brexit. The absolute worst outcome for Ireland would be a hard Brexit and a hard border.

Ireland has three weeks to try and get an agreement hammered out with Britain about the border. But rather than putting all their energy into that, the government is suddenly distracted and dealing with the prospect of a December general election.

Why would Sinn Fein do that now? Is it really a point of principle about the Dail being misled? Sorry, I don't buy that. I believe Sinn Fein want a hard border and a hard Brexit. It fits their long term goal of a united Ireland. Divide the country physically. Make life intolerable for people and they will clamour for a united Ireland. It may take years of misery. They will wait. And if lives are destroyed in the meantime? Sinn Fein is still at war, and in war there are casualties. All that matters is achieving their goal.

I don't agree with this. To be honest, I don't think it's in Sinn Fein's interest or plans to have an election right now. I think they just put down the confidence motion as tokenism expecting it to be defeated and never dreaming FF would put down a second motion that would threaten the government.

judeboy101

If you think for one minute the EU will back Ireland on the border even if the UK pony up the divorce bill, you are not paying attention. Phase 2 will go ahead and border issue will be "parked" and "dealt" with as part of the trade negotiations. Our veto is not worth a penny, compared to what the EU wants.

Baralis1

If we exercise our veto, phase 2 can't go ahead.

Atlantic Dawn

If the UK stay out of the single market there will have to be a hard border, doesn't matter what any Irish polician wants or wishes.

judeboy101

Baralis1 wrote: »

If we exercise our veto, phase 2 can't go ahead.

'IF'

Do you remember 'IF' we sorted out the banks, the EU would treat us as a "special" case. I confidently predict a fudge on Tuesday and a fudge at the December EU summit.

Victor

Maglight wrote: »

Does Sinn Fein want a hard border?

I don't think they ultimately want a hard border, but it might suit them.

LeinsterDub

judeboy101 wrote: »

If you think for one minute the EU will back Ireland on the border even if the UK pony up the divorce bill, you are not paying attention. Phase 2 will go ahead and border issue will be "parked" and "dealt" with as part of the trade negotiations. Our veto is not worth a penny, compared to what the EU wants.

I'm not sure you understand the word veto

Junkyard Tom

Republican dissidents and the DUP want a hard border for completely opposing reasons. Dissidents because they can say that politics and SF have failed to deliver a UI and the DUP to reverse/stall the soft unification of Ireland and attempt to lock in partition.

Phoebas

Maglight wrote: »

Why would Sinn Fein do that now? Is it really a point of principle about the Dail being misled?

Because its an opportunity to oppose the government and that's more important to them than the actual consequences of not having a fully functioning government in place for the EU summit. They can easily stand back and put the blame on the government for that.

SF like to wield a bit of power, but don't do responsibility very well.

gandalf

I'd say SF put the motion in place for the optics expecting no consequences not realising that FF would get a case of the wobbly sphincters and create a situation that would take the government down. FF are like a junkie that hasn't had their power fix for over six years and they are now getting desperate and illogical with their actions.

murphaph

gandalf wrote: »

I'd say SF put the motion in place for the optics expecting no consequences not realising that FF would get a case of the wobbly sphincters and create a situation that would take the government down. FF are like a junkie that hasn't had their power fix for over six years and they are now getting desperate and illogical with their actions.

Agreed.

However in the national interest I believe Fitzgerald should step down of her own accord and without prejudice.

She herself should recognise the very special position Brexit puts our country in and let the government give it the focus it deserves. Her being right or wrong is secondary.

FrancieBrady

I think SF did what an opposition party should do - call to account. They didn't call for an election - FF did that, although I don't see why it should automatically result in an election based on the C&S deal. This situation was covered in it and shouldn't necessarily bring down the government. There is no requirement for FG arrogance at this time imo.

If this poll is anything to go on very few in the north seem to have a problem with a sea border politically.
https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/11/26/exclusive-poll-unionist-supporters-content-with-east-west-post-brexit-border-controls/

George Sunsnow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think SF did what an opposition party should do - call to account. They didn't call for an election - FF did that, although I don't see why it should automatically result in an election based on the C&S deal. This situation was covered in it and shouldn't necessarily bring down the government. There is no requirement for FG arrogance at this time imo.

If this poll is anything to go on very few in the north seem to have a problem with a sea border politically.
https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/11/26/exclusive-poll-unionist-supporters-content-with-east-west-post-brexit-border-controls/

If you search Ian Paisley junior’s tweets you’ll see one a while back where he said he’s no problem with a sea customs border
I wish I’d screengrabbed it at the time,very telling,it may have been deleted
It’s about 6 months ago I think