Can't Decide on New vs. Old

douglashyde

Hi guys,

Like many other boards members, I value the diversity of opinions of users and would LOVE peoples thoughts of the following:

My girlfriend and I are in a fortunate situation to be able to trade up to a larger home.

We've currently a refundable deposit down on a new build in Terenure (3-story, 155m2 w/ small back + 2 car spots) priced at €775K. It's a timber frame build w/ 10 year home bond guarantee.

Our alternative is a period (edwardian home) in turn-key condition (156m2 w/ small back + garage and ample street parking) which we'll likely be able to close on for €870K.

Prices are mad - maybe prices go up/down in the future but we're not in it for the investment, we want a home to live in.

There's a whole host of reasons why one is better/worse. My worry is that a new build timber home won't age well.

Are we mad paying an extra €95K for a house the same size?

bigpoppa

Having moved a few times I would always go with new build. Warmer with better features and less work to do. My two cents.

douglashyde

Thanks Bigpoppa - have you ever lived in timber build and what are your thoughts on them?

I know logically and practically they're better (i.e. insulation) -but the Irishness in is thinking brick house is better than wood houses.

Lumen

A good period home will always hold its value better, because the style won't go "out of fashion".

Beware of superficial refurbishments. There's not much you can tell from a survey.

April 73

A few questions I would ask myself:
What's the BER on the old house? Have windows, doors & insulation been upgraded?
Is the new house a one off or in a new development?
Are you likely to have older neighbours beside the old house & younger neighbours beside the new one?
What about local schools & catchment areas in case kids come along in the future (assuming here that you don't have any already, I could be wrong)

Ninja_Go

I'd value the ample on street parking, especially when entertaining, or even just having one or two visitors. Garage has potential for conversion/storage of all the miscellaneous stuff that might otherwise end up in a shed in the small back garden of the other property.

Weigh up the location. Terenure is a nightmare for traffic at the best of times. Will you face into a queue of cars every time you want to leave the house?

Weigh up the environs of the estate; will the new build be somewhat of a concrete jungle? Is there more of a community/neighbourhood sense in the older property? Do you imagine the new estate will have many owner occupiers, or will there be lots of rentals? Nothing wrong with neighbours renting for the most part but if there's potential for students with a high turnover of tenants versus settles neighbours that you may become friendly with over the years, there are advantages to the older property there.

riclad

Whats the most quiet area to live in,
is there plenty of space to park, whats the garden size,
i prefer a brick house to timber frame,
You can always add new insulation to a old house.
old houses tend to have higher ceilings than a standard new build.
i,m not a building expert but there may be less maintenance on a old brick house if its well insulated .
i also think the building methods of timber frame housing is now very advanced as long as the wood is sealed and painted to prevent water damage .
And a new house will be in theory built to a high level of insulation.
if i has 500k and the choice of 2 houses roughly the same price i,d go for the old brick house .
when you are paying 800k mostly for the area.
prices are not mad ,
we have high demand and low rate of supply.
And dublin is booming .
you could buy 4 bed house in dublin 2 for 300k.with a large back garden.
the old house will probably increase in value more vs another standard new build timber frame in an estate .
there very few new houses being built in terenure .

douglashyde

April 73 wrote: »

A few questions I would ask myself:
What's the BER on the old house? Have windows, doors & insulation been upgraded?
Is the new house a one off or in a new development?
Are you likely to have older neighbours beside the old house & younger neighbours beside the new one?
What about local schools & catchment areas in case kids come along in the future (assuming here that you don't have any already, I could be wrong)

- D1, not terrible, not great. All windows upgraded to double glazing on windows.

- It's terenuregate.com - it's a once off (around 50 houses/apartments) in a built up area.

- Good point re. neighbours. It's difficult to say but I'd imagine a younger crowd in the new dev.

- No kids yet, just a dog . The two properties are 15 mins of each other and rank equally for schools/preschools.

douglashyde

Ninja_Go wrote: »

I'd value the ample on street parking, especially when entertaining, or even just having one or two visitors. Garage has potential for conversion/storage of all the miscellaneous stuff that might otherwise end up in a shed in the small back garden of the other property.

Weigh up the location. Terenure is a nightmare for traffic at the best of times. Will you face into a queue of cars every time you want to leave the house?

Weigh up the environs of the estate; will the new build be somewhat of a concrete jungle? Is there more of a community/neighbourhood sense in the older property? Do you imagine the new estate will have many owner occupiers, or will there be lots of rentals? Nothing wrong with neighbours renting for the most part but if there's potential for students with a high turnover of tenants versus settles neighbours that you may become friendly with over the years, there are advantages to the older property there.

This is actually a great point I never considered, while the new build has 2 front door car spots - parking for guests would be a mini nightmare.
Unfort. I'll be adding an additional 15-20 mins onto the car journey to work each day with either of the properties (currently located in Rathmines)

Which one do you both prefer as in which is more your style of house? I would go with that then when all other aspects are comparable. The BER rating would put me off the older house as I am a cold creature but that is personal choice. The new house I assume is A rated or very high B and there’s no comparison in heating costs.

douglashyde

riclad wrote: »

Whats the most quiet area to live in,
is there plenty of space to park, whats the garden size,
i prefer a brick house to timber frame,
You can always add new insulation to a old house.
old houses tend to have higher ceilings than a standard new build.
i,m not a building expert but there may be less maintenance on a old brick house if its well insulated .
i also think the building methods of timber frame housing is now very advanced as long as the wood is sealed and painted to prevent water damage .
And a new house will be in theory built to a high level of insulation.
if i has 500k and the choice of 2 houses roughly the same price i,d go for the old brick house .
when you are paying 800k mostly for the area.
prices are not mad ,
we have high demand and low rate of supply.
And dublin is booming .
you could buy 4 bed house in dublin 2 for 300k.with a large back garden.
the old house will probably increase in value more vs another standard new build timber frame in an estate .
there very few new houses being built in terenure .

You're thinking is similar to mine (800K is a lot but paying for high quality central location).

Yes, I've done a lot of research and it seems timber builds are 'technically' superior. Yet if all things were equal and timber vs. brick, for (mostly) non-practical reasons, I'd go with brick.

Re. ceiling height, this particular new build has been done w/ high ceiling similar to period homes - they do look fantastic

douglashyde

Deleted User wrote: »

Which one do you both prefer as in which is more your style of house? I would go with that then when all other aspects are comparable. The BER rating would put me off the older house as I am a cold creature but that is personal choice. The new house I assume is A rated or very high B and there’s no comparison in heating costs.

Hey Julie,

Gun to our heads, we'd go with period home, it's been standing for 100 years and it'll stand for another 100 years.

However... for a whole host of practically reasons we really need to challenge this. Money-wise we'd save quite a bit on the new build and wouldn't require any cometic costs.

April 73

100k is a lot of extra money.

I had a quick nosy on the website.
One question for you to ask is about the management company in the new development. I've experience with a management company & you need interested homeowners to get involved so that it's run properly with an adequate sinking fund.

I bought a house 2 1/2 years ago which was rated C1. Its hard to heat & every job we do costs more than we think it will & it's not as old as 100 years. There's a lot to be said for a new house that needs nothing done to it.

Bananaleaf

I see both houses are the same size, but presumably the individual m2 of each room isn't. What rooms are important to you?

Myself and my OH are sale agreed on our first forever home. (I'm never going through the stress of this again!) It is the same size overall to our current rental, but the kitchen and bedrooms in our future home are much bigger than where we are now, and the sitting room is smaller. This is ideal for us as I use the kitchen loads and we want the space upstairs to have a larger bed. We literally only 'sit' in the sitting room and always felt that where are now had lots of wasted space.

I had a look at the terenuregate website and from the photos (maybe too much furniture in the images) it seems like a lot of rooms, but small ones. Is the period house the same? Or are there less, but more spacious rooms?

AndrewJRenko

I'd imagine the older property would have much higher running and maintenance costs. Every job on plumbing or electrical or physical infrastructure would cost significantly more.

But more importantly, if you're planning on having a family, I'd go for the new build. Something magical happens if you have a pile of young families coming together roughly at the same stage in life, with kids making best friends and running in and out of each other's houses. Having these kinds of friends within the kids' own walking distance is a huge plus.

Terenure is easily within cycling distance of anywhere in the city, if you're too busy to sit in traffic.

the_syco

douglashyde wrote: »

- It's terenuregate.com - it's a once off (around 50 houses/apartments) in a built up area.

If it's a managed area, what are the rules regarding pets? Did you see many pets there?

douglashyde wrote: »

Gun to our heads, we'd go with period home, it's been standing for 100 years and it'll stand for another 100 years.

If it has been there for a 100 years, is it listed, or will it be listed shortly? And if listed, what changes can you make internally or externally?

P. Breathnach

Terenure is a great place to live, but...
- commuting to a city centre job is a pain; you might spend 10 minutes getting from Terenure Gate to Terenure Place;
- I don't think any of the Edwardian houses in Terenure has ample on-street parking; I suggest that you take a look in the evening when most people are home.

I think I know which older house you are considering. If I am right, I'd see it as no contest, because it is built to a very high standard, and the location is great. I'd take the lower BER and deal with it to live in such a good house. And I say that as somebody who has confidence in timber-frame as a building technology.

One thing I would count against Terenure Gate is that one gets the sense that the houses have been shoe-horned in to maximise density, and I suspect that the visual ameninity (such as it is) will suffer from dustbin blight.

April 73

P. Breathnach wrote: »

dustbin blight

This alone would nearly make the €100k extra worthwhile.

Have you thought about the orientation of the garden? Where will you get the sun?

Cuddlesworth

douglashyde wrote: »

Gun to our heads, we'd go with period home, it's been standing for 100 years and it'll stand for another 100 years.

Will it? Houses were never built to last the lengths of time they are starting to hit. And those houses can have some serious problems hidden behind the plasterboard.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'd imagine the older property would have much higher running and maintenance costs. Every job on plumbing or electrical or physical infrastructure would cost significantly more.

That's a understatement. And if the house is listed, or due to be listed, run a mile.

riclad

i know 150 year old houses that are in perfect condition,
if they are sealed and waterproofed and insulated they are easier to maintain than a new house.
you may need a visitors parking permit,
to allow a friend to park outside your house.
is there a parking ticket machine on your street.
on street parking in theory anyone can park outside your house and stay
there for 12 hours,
i dont have a car ,everyday a random car is parked outside my gaff.

if you have acess to the back or front garden ,
then you could park at least 1 car there.
on average the rooms /gardens are bigger in old houses.
Depending in the area .
i viewed a house for sale dublin 2 .needing renovation,
it was in bits,the back garden was 20ft x12ft .

once insulation is installed , the maintenance cost an any house should be low.
listed buildings ,the main cost is if you wish to change the doors windows ,
you,ll have to put in windows or doors, that are georgian or victorian style ,not just standard pvc windows.
it may be harder to get approval for a new modern stle extension if the house is listed.

P. Breathnach

People might be unnecessarily distracted by the idea of the house being listed. There are large numbers of good Edwardian houses in the Dublin suburbs, and I doubt if any are listed or under consideration for listing.

Teyla Emmagan

What road is the old house on? As someone else said I can't think of a single road in Terenure with "ample on street parking". Personally I would always go with an older period house, am not into new builds. The Terenure Gate place seems lovely but the houses look squished on top of each other to me.

douglashyde

Bananaleaf wrote: »

I see both houses are the same size, but presumably the individual m2 of each room isn't. What rooms are important to you?

Myself and my OH are sale agreed on our first forever home. (I'm never going through the stress of this again!) It is the same size overall to our current rental, but the kitchen and bedrooms in our future home are much bigger than where we are now, and the sitting room is smaller. This is ideal for us as I use the kitchen loads and we want the space upstairs to have a larger bed. We literally only 'sit' in the sitting room and always felt that where are now had lots of wasted space.

I had a look at the terenuregate website and from the photos (maybe too much furniture in the images) it seems like a lot of rooms, but small ones. Is the period house the same? Or are there less, but more spacious rooms?

It's a great point and something that's been in the back of my head.

The new build feels more spacious - but I can't put my finger on it.
(I think) dining rooms are used less now than ever before; we'd prefer a larger sized kitchen/breakfast bar and more office/studio space.

Basically it seems most older builds have more living downstairs area but lack #bathrooms.

To answer your question; The new build is more functional for sure!
I'm trading up from a 1-bed apartment so the extra space has me in heaven !!

douglashyde

riclad wrote: »

i know 150 year old houses that are in perfect condition,
if they are sealed and waterproofed and insulated they are easier to maintain than a new house.
you may need a visitors parking permit,
to allow a friend to park outside your house.
is there a parking ticket machine on your street.
on street parking in theory anyone can park outside your house and stay
there for 12 hours,
i dont have a car ,everyday a random car is parked outside my gaff.

if you have acess to the back or front garden ,
then you could park at least 1 car there.
on average the rooms /gardens are bigger in old houses.
Depending in the area .
i viewed a house for sale dublin 2 .needing renovation,
it was in bits,the back garden was 20ft x12ft .

once insulation is installed , the maintenance cost an any house should be low.
listed buildings ,the main cost is if you wish to change the doors windows ,
you,ll have to put in windows or doors, that are georgian or victorian style ,not just standard pvc windows.
it may be harder to get approval for a new modern stle extension if the house is listed.

Not listed (which is great).

Alleyway in the back leading to double garage so I suppose this is parking of 'last resort'

Come to think of it, 3 years in my current place and I can't think of a single vistors calling over in a car (all buses, cycling or taxis!). Parking in Dublin city is mental and I think I'd be blessed have the garage at the back.

Scraggs

I know it might not be a thing for a 775k house but consider how the estate will settle and what type of owners there will be.... owner occupiers, renters, council? I have a work colleague who is fuming that a housing organisation have bought 15 houses in the estate she's put money down on. (Different budget and north county Dublin but something to take into consideration)
I personally would go for the house with the most space and parking. The garage in the older house would be a big draw for me too.

Eric Cartman

douglashyde wrote: »

Not listed (which is great).

Alleyway in the back leading to double garage so I suppose this is parking of 'last resort'

Come to think of it, 3 years in my current place and I can't think of a single vistors calling over in a car (all buses, cycling or taxis!). Parking in Dublin city is mental and I think I'd be blessed have the garage at the back.

non listed building of that vintage and a back garage (that could have a mews put over it in future perhaps ?)

sounds like the period home is a serious winner.

Bananaleaf

douglashyde wrote: »

It's a great point and something that's been in the back of my head.

The new build feels more spacious - but I can't put my finger on it.
(I think) dining rooms are used less now than ever before; we'd prefer a larger sized kitchen/breakfast bar and more office/studio space.

Basically it seems most older builds have more living downstairs area but lack #bathrooms.

To answer your question; The new build is more functional for sure!
I'm trading up from a 1-bed apartment so the extra space has me in heaven !!

What a trade-up! I'd be in heaven too!

douglashyde

Thanks for the advice everybody- food for thought.

We're fairly along in the process now and will hopefully be able to close on this, this week.

I'll send an update when I've more news

P. Breathnach

If you hope to have a family, you should give some thought to how well the layout suits family living for children at different life stages.

thierry14

Are these terraced houses/semi d's?

I was looking for a long time when I bought recently and the newer the house the worse the sound insulation from my experience

I was in A3 semi d new builds that you could hear people talking next door, it was a joke, would drive me mental

Old homes I went to look at built in the 70's had much better sound insulation, couldnt hear anything.

the_syco

If you have kids, the garage of the older house could be turned into a playroom, and/or a room or two placed on top of it.