Any parents out there NOT giving kids games consoles yet? Advice please!

forgodssake

The problem with consoles is how long the kids are spending on them. If they get an agreed time I don't see the problem. On it all the time ...different story . Each to their own . If you want them to have one get one if you don't then don't. I couldn't care what other parents decide to do . That's their business .

Thargor

All a console does these days is turn them into good little consumers, companies like Electronic Arts are driving things towards an insert cash to win model, that €60 they pay for a game is only the start these days, they'll be hassling you for your credit card details in order to get the "full experience". Mobile gaming is even worse, completely toxic, a choice between watching ads or handing over cash every 5 minutes. The main apps like Clash of Clans are pure brainwashing experiences rather than actual games.

Get them a gaming pc instead, you'll get a decent one for the price of a console, at least they'll learn a few skills that might stand to them in future instead of how to hand over credit card details. Games are free or dirt cheap for pc if you know where to look and even modern stuff can be got for nothing in Steam sales and the like.

selfbuildache

Thargor and Pwurple, I would very much be leaning towards a PC for gaming (I don't think my little laptop would be up for it) but on looking online, they seem a LOT more expensive than the games console... any ideas on where to start there, in terms of info / what would be a good model to start on etc? (Think I'll head over to the technology section...)

Bitches Be Trypsin

iPad can be excellent for educational apps and YouTube etc.

However I'd get the console they want. How are you supposed to explain why santa brought a PS4 to others and not them.

Thargor

selfbuildache wrote: »

Thargor and Pwurple, I would very much be leaning towards a PC for gaming (I don't think my little laptop would be up for it) but on looking online, they seem a LOT more expensive than the games console... any ideas on where to start there, in terms of info / what would be a good model to start on etc? (Think I'll head over to the technology section...)

Yeah ask over in the pc building forum, they'll help you out:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=842

Keep an eye on the bargain alerts thread there and places like HotUKDeals, its probably not going to be cheap unless you find a great bargain but for an extra 100 or so over the price of a console plus all the benefits its worth looking into.

Ursus Horribilis

Are you sure you're not sounding like a parent from the 80s, who bought their offspring a Sinclair ZX Spectrum or a Commodore 64, so that it could be educational? I'm afraid I'm old enough to have grown up in that era, when those aforementioned computers were the consoles of our day. The educational bit about learning BASIC etc. quickly went out the window. It didn't do any of us any harm. The secret, I think, is moderation. There's nothing wrong with children playing games as long as they're doing other things too.

If it came down to it, I would much rather my child played games on a console than on a phone. Gameplaying on a phone is a very solitary activity and makes it easier for the child to shut the world out. Whereas a console can be a more social thing. Playing Mario Kart or Fifa against a human opponent can be great craic.

Dont be at yourself

LastLagoon wrote: »

There’s a reason a lot of high earners in Silicon Valley drastically limit screen time for their kids,they know the story

Mark Zuckerberg is in the record that he got into coding because of his childhood love of videogames -- something true of many people. I work at one of those Silicon Valley companies, and can honestly say I would not be there today if Santa hadn't left us a Sega Megadrive one year.

Consoles and tablets can be a really engaging way to learn and develop an interest in STEM. The world and economy that your kids will be entering as an adult will require tech savviness as a minimum requirement -- more so than whatever talents they'll develop out on the street.

Of course, as with everything, balance is important. All game consoles and most tablets come with incredibly robust parental controls, limiting use by time and by content. Seems like there's a happy medium to be had.

drunkmonkey

selfbuildache wrote: »

Thargor and Pwurple, I would very much be leaning towards a PC for gaming (I don't think my little laptop would be up for it) but on looking online, they seem a LOT more expensive than the games console... any ideas on where to start there, in terms of info / what would be a good model to start on etc? (Think I'll head over to the technology section...)

It'll save you a fortune in the long run on games, if you get or build any pc/laptop with an Nvidia gtx 10 series laptop they support game streaming so you can have your laptop/pc in the office and the kids are playing games on the TV in a different room.
Great for the kids to see how a pc is built from start to finish it's not that hard and they'll be able to help.

Balmed Out

You can also pick up a decent ex office pc and add a low power graphics card as a budget way to get into pc gaming.

Thargor

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

Are you sure you're not sounding like a parent from the 80s, who bought their offspring a Sinclair ZX Spectrum or a Commodore 64, so that it could be educational? I'm afraid I'm old enough to have grown up in that era, when those aforementioned computers were the consoles of our day. The educational bit about learning BASIC etc. quickly went out the window. It didn't do any of us any harm. The secret, I think, is moderation. There's nothing wrong with children playing games as long as they're doing other things too.

If it came down to it, I would much rather my child played games on a console than on a phone. Gameplaying on a phone is a very solitary activity and makes it easier for the child to shut the world out. Whereas a console can be a more social thing. Playing Mario Kart or Fifa against a human opponent can be great craic.

No because those systems were dead ends and obsolete the minute they were bought, a Windows pc is different, Windows is going nowhere. Im a biochemist not even in IT but everything I know about computers, drivers, building and fixing pcs, what the different pieces of hardware do, networking and a million other things like Office apps all started with our first Windows 95 pc as kids, these are genuinely useful skills that you'll use all the time in whatever field you go into, comparing them to Commodore BASIC or Xbox Live or whatever is a bit ridiculous.

Tom Mann Centuria

Thargor wrote: »

No because those systems were dead ends and obsolete the minute they were bought, a Windows pc is different, Windows is going nowhere. Im a biochemist not even in IT but everything I know about computers, drivers, building and fixing pcs, what the different pieces of hardware do, networking and a million other things like Office apps all started with our first Windows 95 pc as kids, these are genuinely useful skills that you'll use all the time in whatever field you go into, comparing them to Commodore BASIC or Xbox Live or whatever is ridiculous.

Taking this way off topic but the Spectrum and Commodore weren't "dead end systems". They taught plenty of people to code. Just because you're too young to remember doesn't mean it didn't happen.

drunkmonkey

Don't be knocking the c64 I've one on pre order https://thec64.com/ : )

Ursus Horribilis

Thargor wrote: »

No because those systems were dead ends and obsolete the minute they were bought, a Windows pc is different, Windows is going nowhere. Im a biochemist not even in IT but everything I know about computers, drivers, building and fixing pcs, what the different pieces of hardware do, networking and a million other things like Office apps all started with our first Windows 95 pc as kids, these are genuinely useful skills that you'll use all the time in whatever field you go into, comparing them to Commodore BASIC or Xbox Live or whatever is a bit ridiculous.

Did you grow up with a Speccy or C64 in your house, Thargor? Back in those days, people didn't view their home computers in the way that someone buying one now would. The notion of the computer being obsolete in no time didn't exist. Both machines had quite a long shelf life without being changed much. And they definitely taught a lot of youngsters to code. The manuals which came with the computers had programs in them, for kids to type in themselves. And the computer magazines at the time often had programs printed in them, either in BASIC or machine code. I'm an avid listener to a British retrogaming podcast. Each week the presenters interview a figure from that era - people who have often continued to work in the industry. Almost without fail, they'll talk about how they started tinkering around with code on the computer at home and went from there.

rainbowtrout

mikeysmith wrote: »

Once kids hit second level they need fones and data or they're going to be isolated

That's the reality now whether parents like it or not

I teach two 16 year old (from different families) and neither have phones. And their attitude is, I've never had one so I don't know what I'm missing. No internet for them either for the most part. They are involved in loads of other activities, football, swimming etc. One comes from a family where she is only allowed watch TV at weekends. Both are articulate and interesting and have great social skills. They don't get picked on by other students. I think the argument of 'they have to have it because they'll be isolated' is crap. Kids at school accept that this is the way in those households and that's it.

pwurple

The Typing games are things like ztype, where you control a space ship based on typing words, or mavis beacon, etc.

We have some old laptops around here though, so we just set one up for the kids with a docking station, big monitor and proper keyboard. Buying a new one... i‘ve not done that in years! Does your work let people buy old refurbed ones? That’s where ours come from.

Ann22

I think, with many kids, once they start playing games consoles, no other toy can compete and it's sad to see them losing interest in regular toys/games/lego. They can be addictive. My husband is addicted ffs! If I wasn't around he'd never be off it. Our time watching tv together at night is limited as he has to get his fix!
I know many families whose kids dont leave their rooms as are glued to their screens. They throw strops when told to come off them for meals or bedtime. My nephew had bowel issues because he wasn't stopping to go to the toilet!
Imo you are right in holding off 'til now. If the child is the only one in his class without one they can feel left out but they can still be left out if the rest of the class are playing a different set of games! Almost every child my son knows has played adult games like Grand Theft Auto and Call of Duty from a young age. In a child that may have issues it's a really bad influence. It can desensitise them to violence and some can fill them full of aggression. I don't know how many times I've heard pals of my boys' broke their controllers they were so frustrated and upset at some annoyingly hard level.
That all sounds very negative!
Limit the time and choose games carefully and they will be ok.

SusieBlue

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I teach two 16 year old (from different families) and neither have phones. And their attitude is, I've never had one so I don't know what I'm missing. No internet for them either for the most part. They are involved in loads of other activities, football, swimming etc. One comes from a family where she is only allowed watch TV at weekends. Both are articulate and interesting and have great social skills. They don't get picked on by other students. I think the argument of 'they have to have it because they'll be isolated' is crap. Kids at school accept that this is the way in those households and that's it.

Fair play to the parents for sticking to their guns and its great that the kids turned out so well, but I think that sounds miserable.
I think there's a happy medium and a balance can be struck, but isolating them from all technology is of no benefit to them and is not the way to go either.
I would think to exclude it completely from life is as detrimental as having kids glued to screens 24/7.

seamus

rainbowtrout wrote: »

They don't get picked on by other students. I think the argument of 'they have to have it because they'll be isolated' is crap. Kids at school accept that this is the way in those households and that's it.

Perhaps.

But wait until they turn 18, go off to college and find out that they need to use computers, phones and the internet to do even the most basic things related to coursework and socialising.

They will be miles behind their peers and will struggle because they lack some core skills.

They'll pick it up of course, but they will struggle badly. Most college courses don't even hand out printed sheets anymore. Everything is online - from schedules, to registration, to course notes, to tutorial work. If someone gets to 18 with no familiarity with these things, they have a steep learning curve ahead of them, on top of their coursework.

It's incredibly short-sighted of any parent to have a blanket "no technology" rule. It's not like the internet is a fad that will go away.

pwurple

Yes, it's all about balance. When ANY activity starts preventing children from taking up sports, or going to the toilet, then it needs to be looked at. 
In general, I try to show my own children a broad range of experiences, so they can see what interests them. This does not mean being thrown into the forest with no technology exposure ever (but we do go to forests, and camp etc). nor does it mean being glued to a screen 24x7, with cartoons on during meals, homework and no physical activity at all (but they do get to use technology and see the odd cartoon).

Somewhere in the middle, as with everything else, is about right.

Dravokivich

PLL wrote: »

This whole primary school kids having an iPad, a phone, consoles is ridiculous.

Mine will get a phone when they graduate sixth class. I'll consider consoles and iPads as gifts as they get older. I'm not going to budge on this. They have the rest of their lives to be consumed by technology.

Edit to add: My six year old has a child's leapfrog tablet which has a daily limit. No issue with her playing with that for a bit, it's educational. Not a hope would she be using a standard tablet watching shíte on YouTube.

What's wrong with the stuff on Youtube? My kid watches it mainly for train sets and lego these days.

There's also some really good cartoons published straight onto youtube by production companies. Check out Booba. Better then anything I've seen aimed at kids on TV.

Bacchus

seamus wrote: »

Perhaps.

But wait until they turn 18, go off to college and find out that they need to use computers, phones and the internet to do even the most basic things related to coursework and socialising.

They will be miles behind their peers and will struggle because they lack some core skills.

They'll pick it up of course, but they will struggle badly. Most college courses don't even hand out printed sheets anymore. Everything is online - from schedules, to registration, to course notes, to tutorial work. If someone gets to 18 with no familiarity with these things, they have a steep learning curve ahead of them, on top of their coursework.

It's incredibly short-sighted of any parent to have a blanket "no technology" rule. It's not like the internet is a fad that will go away.

On that bit in bold. I'm calling BS. As if swiping mindlessly through YouTube videos on a smartphone or playing XBox/PlayStation are core skills. I'm often amused at people marvelling over their child's "natural IT smarts" because they can work a smartphone at the age of 6. They do realize the damn thing is designed to be unbelievably simple/intuitive to work. And with a big motivator of videos/games, of course any child will have it all figured out in no time. It's not an achievement.

At this point, I'd just clarify that I'm not talking about things like CoderDojo or educational usage of technology - which I do believe has some benefits (though I think the focus on churning out junior programmers is misguided).

I'll give a small (anecdotal) example of my nephew. His parents were strict with tech (and still are). He was probably last in class to get a phone, and at that it was restricted. TV was limited. Only had a Wii console. Very much encouraged to take part in outdoor sports. I gave him my old Linux machine when he was around 15 (he was already clearly interested in tech at this point). He's just started Comp Sci in college and already has worked 3 Summers with a small tech firm (doing real work, not mickey mouse stuff). So, far from being "miles behind" his peers, he's probably way ahead.

drunkmonkey

Nothing wrong with a Wii and maybe it's some of the reason your friends kid done well, if he can get all the stars in mario it's the makings of a smart kid. Not everyone has the reaction and critical thinking skills to do it the same goes for a lot of games.
Think it shows in girls a bit with the lack of gaming growing up they seem to panic under pressure while some guys can react at lightning speed. Just my own observations.

Romantic Rose

I think that some people forget that there was life before the internet and there is still life away from it.

I was in a busy cafe recently and I asked my husband to look around to see did he notice what I did. He did. Everyone under the age of 25 had a smart phone in their hand and was buried in it. Even the ones who were with family and friends.

Like literally if you had asked me what colour their eyes were, I couldn't have told you as none of them looked up.

Technology is great when it doesn't consume people's life but that isn't happening. People don't know when to switch the off button.

We call the IPad, IParent in my school. The children use them for such prolonged periods.

The parenting bit becomes obsolete

Romantic Rose

seamus wrote: »

Perhaps.

But wait until they turn 18, go off to college and find out that they need to use computers, phones and the internet to do even the most basic things related to coursework and socialising.

They will be miles behind their peers and will struggle because they lack some core skills.

They'll pick it up of course, but they will struggle badly. Most college courses don't even hand out printed sheets anymore. Everything is online - from schedules, to registration, to course notes, to tutorial work. If someone gets to 18 with no familiarity with these things, they have a steep learning curve ahead of them, on top of their coursework.

It's incredibly short-sighted of any parent to have a blanket "no technology" rule. It's not like the internet is a fad that will go away.

I didn't have a smart phone until I was 22. I barely touched a computer until I went to college but I still managed to become computer literate in a short space of time.

pwurple

Romantic Rose wrote: »

I think that some people forget that there was life before the internet and there is still life away from it.

I was in a busy cafe recently and I asked my husband to look around to see did he notice what I did. He did. Everyone under the age of 25 had a smart phone in their hand and was buried in it. Even the ones who were with family and friends. 

Era, I get you, but I see that for the most part the same as when you went into a cafe in the 70's and everyone was either reading a newspaper or a book. That's how our news and reading material is delivered these days.

Romantic Rose

pwurple wrote: »

Era, I get you, but I see that for the most part the same as when you went into a cafe in the 70's and everyone was either reading a newspaper or a book. That's how our news and reading material is delivered these days.

I doubt it was the news. It was probably checking into a cafe and sitting there waiting for likes.

Live for the likes.

I'm just so glad that I didn't have to suffer through this growing up.

drunkmonkey

Went for a meal in a restraunt lately, family beside us 3 kids first thing they asked for wasn't some water it was the WiFi password, all kids over weight and glued to their phones all the time mam and dad at opposite ends of the table looking at each other thinking this is a **** state of affairs hardly a word was spoken during the meal.
Was sad to watch a family like that spending money on a nice meal with all the kids about 12-16 with their heads a million miles away and parents bored senseless. I see phones and tablets as a big problem. A console playing some games with friends or mam and dad at home is a million miles away from what a lot of families are going through with technology.

farmchoice

there is a great saying that at times of doubt i always turn to and its one we all know.

''everything in moderation''


we dont have any consoles in the house but the 8 year old has asked for one this year and we are getting it for him.

do i envisage rows about it, yes, crying, yes, tantrums yes. will we use its removal as a threat, yes, will be curse the day we ever got it, yes.

exactly the same as the batmobile we got him when he was 4 or the studded football boots last year or that bastard talking peppa when he was 2.

that's kids, they grow up and they grow up in the world as it is now not the world we grew up in or the world we would like them to grow up in.

whats more the world is theirs we are already yesterdays news, let them at it and do your best to limit the damage you do them with your parenting, which ever way you chose to go.

pwurple

Romantic Rose wrote: »

pwurple wrote: »

Era, I get you, but I see that for the most part the same as when you went into a cafe in the 70's and everyone was either reading a newspaper or a book. That's how our news and reading material is delivered these days.

I doubt it was the news. It was probably checking into a cafe and sitting there waiting for likes.

Live for the likes.

I'm just so glad that I didn't have to suffer through this growing up.

Maybe. But when I was growing up, there were plenty of families who had a TV/radio in the kitchen and watched/listened to that while eating. It wasn't the way we were brought up, but I know it was absolutely normal for others, and would have seen it a lot when I hung around at friends houses for dinner/tea.  Parents would come home from work, the news at six would come on, and they would all watch it in silence while eating. 
It's probably those children, grown up now, doing the same thing with their own families, just using the newer tech. 
My parents considered TV or radio on while eating to be the height of bad manners, to the extent that they think music in a restaurant is obnoxious and would ask for it to be turned off. But there ya go. Different norms.

I travel sometimes with work, and usually have a tablet or phone with me while I'm having dinner alone, to catch up on the news, chats with my family etc.  I've never 'checked in' to a cafe, but maybe someone sitting across the room assumes that's what I'm doing? Away with ya. ;)

mikeysmith

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I teach two 16 year old (from different families) and neither have phones. And their attitude is, I've never had one so I don't know what I'm missing. No internet for them either for the most part. They are involved in loads of other activities, football, swimming etc. One comes from a family where she is only allowed watch TV at weekends. Both are articulate and interesting and have great social skills. They don't get picked on by other students. I think the argument of 'they have to have it because they'll be isolated' is crap. Kids at school accept that this is the way in those households and that's it.

i didn't say they would get picked on, but they are literally isolated from the majority who now have smartphones and mobile data