I'd like a bonus please.

neonsofa

WhiteRoses wrote: »

My issue is with the "cute hoors", as I like to call them. I'm actually friendly enough with someone like this, and know of many others like her.
She works 20 hours a week, in a cafe, mostly for cash in hand. Her wage is then topped up by dole because she is technically only working part time, as she is paid mostly cash. She is in receipt of FIS, lone parents (even though she is still in a relationship with her sons father), childrens allowance and she has a full medical card, as does her child.
She lives in a new build council house. Before she got the house, while she was on a waiting list, she availed of the HAP scheme to rent her lovely apartment. She comes out with around €550 a week (my own estimates) for working 20 hours.

She is totally cheating the system. And not only does she get away with it, because she's clever, but she also gets none of the vitriol from the general public because on the surface, it looks like she's just a young mother trying her best and working part time.
....
I work full time and am degree educated and couldn't afford the lifestyle she leads.

.

I can assure you she is not immune to the vitriol because I've been the genuine young single mother trying my best and working part time (in two separate jobs so that I was actually working full time in total) and the worst is always assumed.

It's always assumed that I'm the same as that lady. That I'm on social welfare/that I'm living with a partner/that I'm not educated etc. Not to be all woe is me, but just pointing out that people generally don't view young single mothers with a "shes trying her best" attitude. Even when they actually are.

So while people may not have expressed it in your presence I can guarantee you they complain about her on threads like these or in work canteens or to their neighbours. Cause it's always done behind the persons back. I would say they already (correctly in this case) assume she is playing the system, if my own experience is anything to go by. Not that it makes any difference. Shes the very reason why people assume it about the genuine cases.

noaddedsugar

WhiteRoses wrote: »

I'll have a go at giving my opinion, I will inevitably end up wording it wrong and offending someone so as a disclaimer, I don't mean to offend anyone!

I have no problem with this bonus. I have no problem with anyone in receipt of social welfare due to long term illness, or incapacity to work. My own mam is a carer to my brother and I'm pretty sure she's in receipt of some form of social welfare for that, though I've never asked her.
I don't even have a problem with those who are long term unemployed and on the dole because the issues to do with that are a lot more deep rooted and complex than "too lazy" to work, which is what most people think.
I genuinely feel sorry for anyone who has to attempt to pay for Christmas on €188 a week.

My issue is with the "cute hoors", as I like to call them. I'm actually friendly enough with someone like this, and know of many others like her.
She works 20 hours a week, in a cafe, mostly for cash in hand. Her wage is then topped up by dole because she is technically only working part time, as she is paid mostly cash. She is in receipt of FIS, lone parents (even though she is still in a relationship with her sons father), childrens allowance and she has a full medical card, as does her child.
She lives in a new build council house. Before she got the house, while she was on a waiting list, she availed of the HAP scheme to rent her lovely apartment. She comes out with around €550 a week (my own estimates) for working 20 hours.

She is totally cheating the system. And not only does she get away with it, because she's clever, but she also gets none of the vitriol from the general public because on the surface, it looks like she's just a young mother trying her best and working part time.

I only know she's in receipt of all that because the last time I was talking to her, she had just gotten porcelain veneers done on her teeth and I couldn't figure out how she afforded them. She's been on 3 holidays already this year and she's going to New York for a few days next month. She didn't tell me how much she was making but she did tell me that she was in receipt of all of those benefits.
I work full time and am degree educated and couldn't afford the lifestyle she leads.

Its people like her that make my blood boil. And they're always the ones that go under the radar. They're never the ones that the media target and they're never the ones the general public would refer to as a "scrounger". Because she's doing the few hours a week, she's doing her bit, its better than the "wasters" who haven't worked for 10 years. Never mind the fact that the "waster" has suffocating depression and anxiety, its this person that is seen as public enemy while she jets off on another shopping trip.

And I know, I know, before anyone says it, I should report her. I probably will. I just wanted to show another side to it. The people on €188 aren't the problem, the people who are so in tune with the system they know how to completely manipulate it are the problem. And that needs far more attention that the extra couple of quid given out at Christmas.

You have to be working 38hrs a fortnight to get FIS so if she is working 20hrs a week she can only be working 1 of those for cash in hand or else she won't be entitled to fis. So if she is working those 20 hours, she is entitled to claim FIS and will more than likely be declaring it all and she is also entitled to lone parents if she isn't living with the father(personally I don't agree with this but it is what it is). So she isn't doing anything wrong for you to report her for unless she is actually working more than 20hrs a week and only declaring the 20.

PeterParker957

neonsofa wrote: »

I can assure you she is not immune to the vitriol because I've been the genuine young single mother trying my best and working part time (in two separate jobs so that I was actually working full time in total) and the worst is always assumed.

It's always assumed that I'm the same as that lady. That I'm on social welfare/that I'm living with a partner/that I'm not educated etc. Not to be all woe is me, but just pointing out that people generally don't view young single mothers with a "shes trying her best" attitude. Even when they actually are.

So while people may not have expressed it in your presence I can guarantee you they complain about her on threads like these or in work canteens or to their neighbours. Cause it's always done behind the persons back. I would say they already (correctly in this case) assume she is playing the system, if my own experience is anything to go by. Not that it makes any difference. Shes the very reason why people assume it about the genuine cases.

You're right - and perhaps we are all guilty of assuming every case is the worst case scenario.

I've a very good friend who is a single mother with a special needs child.

She works harder in one day than I do in a week and I am in awe. She can't work for obvious reasons.

If anyone can give me a reason why she should get a measly carer's allowance while others who are physically capable of putting in a day's graft get more then I would like to hear it.

I am in favour of a Welfare State. I want to protect those who cannot protect themselves and I stand by what I have said before - increase taxes by 5% and guarantee it to be ringfenced for patient care, adolescent mental health, disabled children, whatever is most pressing and I will happily pay it.

I have zero problem with anyone getting a helping hand when they need it.

I do have a problem with those taking the p**s and refusing to work and i definitely have a problem with those defending them and putting down people who work for a living as if we're the problem.

PeterParker957

noaddedsugar wrote: »

You have to be working 38hrs a fortnight to get FIS so if she is working 20hrs a week she can only be working 1 of those for cash in hand or else she won't be entitled to fis. So if she is working those 20 hours, she is entitled to claim FIS and will more than likely be declaring it all and she is also entitled to lone parents if she isn't living with the father(personally I don't agree with this but it is what it is). So she isn't doing anything wrong for you to report her for unless she is actually working more than 20hrs a week and only declaring the 20.

FYP

iamwhoiam

PeterParker957 wrote: »

In no way whatsoever. My argument was that you should get more in fact.

Fair enough

Sephiroth_dude

weldoninhio wrote: »

I don't mix with scroungers, but there are plenty about. You think all the junkies in town are working full time jobs? All the "single" mothers with 2/3/4/5/6 kids??

weldoninhio wrote: »

Annual leave. Living it up like a dolester.

You sound real charming anyway :rolleyes:

seamus

seamus wrote: »

He'll be entitled to disability benefit or an invalidity pension then.

No need to claim the dole.

He'd still get the bonus though, shock and horror.
It took almost 5 years for him to get on the sick from when he stopped working. Scrounging bastard. During which time his pay would be suspended sometimes, sometimes not, and he'd have to see the CWO who'd replace the pay but that would take a few weeks if she was in a good mood.

Idbatterim

people can laugh about this all they want! This money could go to far more worthy causes than retailers and being pissed away, literally!

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He'd still get the bonus though, shock and horror.
It took almost 5 years for him to get on the sick from when he stopped working. Scrounging bastard. During which time his pay would be suspended sometimes, sometimes not, and he'd have to see the CWO who'd replace the pay but that would take a few weeks if she was in a good mood.

Disability allowance is very difficult to get. My brother has a degenerative connective tissue disorder, it took him three appeals, over more than a year, to get approved. During which time he was advised not to apply for Jobseekers' Allowance because that would be taken into consideration and negatively affect his chances.

Completely fell between two stools, he luckily had family who could carry him while he appealed, a lot of people wouldn't.

"Just" go on the sick is up there with "just" get a job in rural Ireland where there are no jobs or "just" move to the cities where there are no houses.

If people don't like paying tax towards welfare then they should "just" move to another country, and if they can't or won't they should "reevaluate their choices". :pac:

PeterParker957

Princess Obnoxious Sun wrote: »

Disability allowance is very difficult to get. My brother has a degenerative connective tissue disorder, it took him three appeals, over more than a year, to get approved. During which time he was advised not to apply for Jobseekers' Allowance because that would be taken into consideration and negatively affect his chances.

Completely fell between two stools, he luckily had family who could carry him while he appealed, a lot of people wouldn't.

"Just" go on the sick is up there with "just" get a job in rural Ireland where there are no jobs or "just" move to the cities where there are no houses.

If people don't like paying tax towards welfare then they should "just" move to another country, and if they can't or won't they should "reevaluate their choices". :pac:

You mean like us workers have been told to do ???

pilly

PeterParker957 wrote: »

You mean like us workers have been told to do ???

You really don't get sarcasm do you PP?

Princess Obnoxious Sun

Princess Obnoxious Sun wrote: »

Disability allowance is very difficult to get. My brother has a degenerative connective tissue disorder, it took him three appeals, over more than a year, to get approved. During which time he was advised not to apply for Jobseekers' Allowance because that would be taken into consideration and negatively affect his chances.

Completely fell between two stools, he luckily had family who could carry him while he appealed, a lot of people wouldn't.

"Just" go on the sick is up there with "just" get a job in rural Ireland where there are no jobs or "just" move to the cities where there are no houses.

If people don't like paying tax towards welfare then they should "just" move to another country, and if they can't or won't they should "reevaluate their choices". :pac:

Depends hugely on the person and the medical people involved. In my experience there are plenty on the fiddle with the sick, the kind who also sublet rooms in their council house and haven't worked in 30 odd years. Then there are those who should be left alone but can't get on the feckin thing.

Idbatterim

the bonus not being abolished at the height of the recession is beyond a joke! a very expensive joke!

pilly

Idbatterim wrote: »

the bonus not being abolished at the height of the recession is beyond a joke! a very expensive joke!

What are you on about? It was?

Sephiroth_dude

Idbatterim wrote: »

the bonus not being abolished at the height of the recession is beyond a joke! a very expensive joke!

It was abolished from 09 and brought back in part in 2014.

Hitman3000

Idbatterim wrote:

the bonus not being abolished at the height of the recession is beyond a joke! a very expensive joke!

You know if you did a little research, you would have avoided making a fool of yourself.

_Brian

I think those begrudging a top up at Christmas need to take a look at themselves.

Yes, we all hate the serially unemployed who have decided to make social welfare a way of life. But they are a whole different topic and should be adhorred every other week too.

But for those unfortunate enough to be relying on SW and are genuine cases I’ve no bother with some of my tax money going to give them a top up.

And for those who just can’t get over it and want a bonus, leave your job and sign on, no one is stopping you, but I’m sure you’ll soon find out that it’s not much of a life if it’s forced into you for whatever reason. Then you’d become one of those who choose to be on SW payments and so part of the actual problem rather than the genuine recipients.

Idbatterim

Hitman3000 wrote: »

You know if you did a little research, you would have avoided making a fool of yourself.

oh ok, I am mistaken then! Right, so it should have never been reintroduced...


E219,000,000 this year, its such a fantastic use of resources! but we could always cut the TD's admittedly over the top pay and save 2-3 million :rolleyes:

http://www.thejournal.ie/regina-doherty-christmas-bonus-3640094-Oct2017/

£10 a week for the uk welfare bonus, but we Irish have it oh so right as usual!

Hitman3000

Idbatterim wrote:

£10 a week for the uk welfare bonus, but we Irish have it oh so right as usual!

I never worry about what the neighbours are doing. Best to mind ones own business.
If you begrudge people an extra 160 at Christmas to bring some cheer into their home that's your problem. The state however gets much of this money back and it provides a stimulus to local communities and shops.

Autochange

weldoninhio wrote: »

I work full time, have done since I left school. Recently changed job and started back at a lower level than previous, with wages to mirror this. I'm already struggling to think how i'll be able to buy presents for the 3/4 people I've to buy for but the govt isn't gonna give me a bonus or the many other working poor out there.

You changed job though? In the run up to Christmas. Knowing you would be paid less. You brought it on yourself. Why are you complaining?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

PeterParker957 wrote: »

You mean like us workers have been told to do ???

Yes. Literally. The scare quotes and pacman smiley weren't enough of a hint as to the tone of the post, no?

SHOVELLER

Only in Ireland would people who dont want to work be rewarded with a bonus. 
Obbviously excluding those who warrant getting a bonus like disabled, widows, blind, carers etc.
No hatred for the poor but taxpayers paying dole to someone who never worked a day in their life is scandalous. In fact "Jobseekers" Allowance should be abolished. The whole Social Welfare system at home is almost beyond repair.
I have been on both sides of the counter and the waste of money is tragic.
There are jobs out there. To say otherwise is the same myth as poverty in Ireland.

Hitman3000

SHOVELLER wrote:

There are jobs out there. To say otherwise is the same myth as poverty in Ireland.

There are just not enough for all that are on the live register.
So proverty in Ireland is a myth? Not even going to engage further with that nonsense claim.

Idbatterim

I never worry about what the neighbours are doing. Best to mind ones own business.
If you begrudge people an extra 160 at Christmas to bring some cheer into their home that's your problem. The state however gets much of this money back and it provides a stimulus to local communities and shops.

First of all I run a small business! secondly, anyone who thinks this is money well spent is simply taking the piss. Dublin is shut down with appalling congestion, MN shelved for years so the government could save some pittance in the scheme of things, the kind of sum of the yearly welfare bonus.

Reducing the outrageous marginal rate of tax. This is the last place I would be wasting money!

Doctor Jimbob

Idbatterim wrote: »

First of all I run a small business! secondly, anyone who thinks this is money well spent is simply taking the piss. Dublin is shut down with appalling congestion, MN shelved for years so the government could save some pittance in the scheme of things, the kind of sum of the yearly welfare bonus.

Reducing the outrageous marginal rate of tax. This is the last place I would be wasting money!

What are you even on about?

Hitman3000

Idbatterim wrote:

First of all I run a small business! secondly, anyone who thinks this is money well spent is simply taking the piss. Dublin is shut down with appalling congestion, MN shelved for years so the government could save some pittance in the scheme of things, the kind of sum of the yearly welfare bonus.

I think it's very well spent. Gives people some help at Christmas and a boost to local economies. Even the small firms association has supported the annual payment as a boost for it's members.
Dublin is no different than all large cities regarding congestion. To suggest it is shutdown is an exaggeration tbh.

iamwhoiam

Idbatterim wrote: »

First of all I run a small business! secondly, anyone who thinks this is money well spent is simply taking the piss. Dublin is shut down with appalling congestion, MN shelved for years so the government could save some pittance in the scheme of things, the kind of sum of the yearly welfare bonus.

Reducing the outrageous marginal rate of tax. This is the last place I would be wasting money!

Dublin is not shut down . Your argument is lost when you make silly statements like that

weldoninhio

Autochange wrote: »

You changed job though? In the run up to Christmas. Knowing you would be paid less. You brought it on yourself. Why are you complaining?

I changed “recently” in the context of me working since I was 18, I’m in my new job 2 years now.

joe swanson

Sickens me that that successive governments have paid out "bonuses" to our scrounging classes whilst not paying a cent extra to the underpaid overworked public sector employees.

I was on the dole and other payments for a good while and I've become far more "ah **** it" since I started working. It's only looking back I realise how **** it really was and how it affected me and others in similar situations.

And as above, the money is spent locally. It's like when there's an increase in SW payments and there's howls. What's more likely to be spent locally? A small amount for a lot of people who are living week-to-week or a larger amount to the better-off? Which is more likely to be spent on a new car or a foreign holiday? I'm not looking to start a whole tax discussion and the marginal tax rate is a kick in the nuts (even at the lower rate just above minimum wage) but it is what it is.

retro:electro

joe swanson wrote: »

Sickens me that that successive governments have paid out "bonuses" to our scrounging classes whilst not paying a cent extra to the underpaid overworked public sector employees.

It sickens me that some people think that everyone who claims some form of welfare entitlement is a scrounger.

Dank Janniels

Are disabled people and carers scroungers?? They get the bonus too

Hitman3000

anna080 wrote:

It sickens me that some people think that everyone who claims some form of welfare entitlement is a scrounger.

Tbh the comment struck me as more of an attempt at 'trolling' than a genuine response.

iamwhoiam

joe swanson wrote: »

Sickens me that that successive governments have paid out "bonuses" to our scrounging classes whilst not paying a cent extra to the underpaid overworked public sector employees.

We are pensioners , are we scroungers ? One day you will be one too . Heres hoping you will never be called a scrounger

Ultimate Seduction

I just can't understand why it's only long term recipients that get it. If you get unlucky and get left go in the run up to Xmas you get nothing. It should be the other way around, JSA shouldn't get a bonus, JSB should!

Stheno

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

I just can't understand why it's only long term recipients that get it. If you get unlucky and get left go in the run up to Xmas you get nothing. It should be the other way around, JSA shouldn't get a bonus, JSB should!

I think it's because most of the benefits payments are taxable the allowance payments are not?

anna080

anna080 wrote: »

It sickens me that some people think that everyone who claims some form of welfare entitlement is a scrounger.

And sadly this is a consensus. People believing the Blueshirt propagandic bullsh1t that the majority of ordinary people unlucky to be out of employment are cheating the country when it is in fact that its their ineptitude and determination to create a multiple tier society is as much to blame.

No one though will ask the question as to why Francis Fitzgerald will get a ministerial pension worth hundreds of thousands for being a liar and in her attempt to help in the cover up for the Senior Gardaí by smearing a good man. She will probably get a pension for each department. Innovation was her previous portfolio and she knew fúck all about it too.

joe swanson

joe swanson wrote: »

Sickens me that that successive governments have paid out "bonuses" to our scrounging classes whilst not paying a cent extra to the underpaid overworked public sector employees.

Are you not sickened by bankers getting big pay offs for sending the country into meltdown Joe? Or multi ministerial pensions? Of course you arent. Its those on 193 a week that has caused the austerity we have endured :rolleyes:

Idbatterim

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Are you not sickened by bankers getting big pay offs for sending the country into meltdown Joe? Or multi ministerial pensions? Of course you arent. Its those on 193 a week that has caused the austerity we have endured :rolleyes:

20,000,000,000 a year plus spent on welfare. Those pay offs aren't a drop in the ocean compared to welfare bill. Of course it's a piss take, but I am adding we have the most generous welfare on the planet. I am also assuming no other country whacks people on low incomes with a marginal rate of over half your income to pay for the world class welfare ...

PeterParker957

Deleted User wrote: »

joe swanson wrote: »

Sickens me that that successive governments have paid out "bonuses" to our scrounging classes whilst not paying a cent extra to the underpaid overworked public sector employees.

Are you not sickened by bankers getting big pay offs for sending the country into meltdown Joe? Or multi ministerial pensions? Of course you arent. Its those on 193 a week that has caused the austerity we have endured :rolleyes:

I wonder at what point will "but da bankers Joe!!" will cease to be a response???

PeterParker957

PeterParker957 wrote: »

I wonder at what point will "but da bankers Joe!!" will cease to be a response???

Id imagine 'we are paying for dem dole spongers' will probably go on alot longer

NinetyTwoTeam

PeterParker957 wrote: »

No one is EVER just on the basic E188 a week. So that can end right now.

Add up all the other freebies that we have to pay for and they're on a lot more.

I've been on it the past 3 years, no rent allowance as the max rent you can be paying is 45/week which just doesn't exist. And no fuel allowance the first year because you need to be on the dole for a year to get it. Then I was denied it the second winter because I did Jobbridge and they take you off the live register for that 9 months of free labour, so I still didn't have a year built up. This year the excuse was that my housemate has a job (a person unrelated to me, who has a 20 hr contract in Aldi).

It's much harder to get extra benefits than you think, even the fuel allowance, which only one person per household can get, and which like I said is kept off you if anyone in the house has even a part time low wage job.

You haven't a clue, honestly. They don't hand out free houses and free rent to most unemployed people, it just doesn't work like that. I'll be using my 'bonus' to chip in for heating oil again.

Doctor Jimbob

Idbatterim wrote: »

20,000,000,000 a year plus spent on welfare. Those pay offs aren't a drop in the ocean compared to welfare bill. Of course it's a piss take, but I am adding we have the most generous welfare on the planet. I am also assuming no other country whacks people on low incomes with a marginal rate of over half your income to pay for the world class welfare ...

How much of that is spent on pensioners? On carers? On disability? 20,000,000,000 being spent on welfare is a great soundbite to throw out when you're trying to make it look like we waste all the countrys money on the dole, but that's just not how it works.

Welfare =/= dole. You'd know that if you performed even the most basic of searches, or had even a rudimentary understanding of the issue.

SHOVELLER

Hitman3000 wrote: »

SHOVELLER wrote:

There are jobs out there. To say otherwise is the same myth as poverty in Ireland.

There are just not enough for all that are on the live register.
So proverty in Ireland is a myth? Not even going to engage further with that nonsense claim.

Total myth propagated by those who have an interest in the poor mouth ****e. Nobody is walking around barefoot. In fact the junkies always have the best footwear and we know where their income comes from.
Nobody is hungry and if they are it is down to poor money management i.e. buying cigs and cans instead of food. At home I lived in a so called poor part of town yet the kids always had the latest mankpool jersies and their parents always had enough for the pubs.
We are one of the richest nations well developed nations on earth and would be richer if we had a proper welfare system that didnt prop up wasters.

Doctor Jimbob

So many anecdotes, so little real evidence.

Hitman3000

SHOVELLER wrote:

Total myth propagated by those who have an interest in the poor mouth ****e. Nobody is walking around barefoot. In fact the junkies always have the best footwear and we know where their income comes from. Nobody is hungry and if they are it is down to poor money management i.e. buying cigs and cans instead of food. At home I lived in a so called poor part of town yet the kids always had the latest mankpool jersies and their parents always had enough for the pubs. We are one of the richest nations well developed nations on earth and would be richer if we had a proper welfare system that didnt prop up wasters.

SHOVELLER wrote:

Total myth propagated by those who have an interest in the poor mouth ****e. Nobody is walking around barefoot. In fact the junkies always have the best footwear and we know where their income comes from. Nobody is hungry and if they are it is down to poor money management i.e. buying cigs and cans instead of food. At home I lived in a so called poor part of town yet the kids always had the latest mankpool jersies and their parents always had enough for the pubs. We are one of the richest nations well developed nations on earth and would be richer if we had a proper welfare system that didnt prop up wasters.

Doctor Jimbob wrote:

So many anecdotes, so little real evidence.

Dr J, can't top it.

joe swanson

Maybe I should clarify- I was talking about long term lazy wasters who have no intention of working- there are plenty getting bonuses.

While people actually working for the state on the breadline get zero. All because of the left wing/want everything for nothing brigade. Not exactly a fair system

Hitman3000

joe swanson wrote:

While people actually working for the state on the breadline get zero. All because of the left wing/want everything for nothing brigade. Not exactly a fair system

Sure if they are on the breadline and the dole is such a great income I'm surprised they continue to remain working. Doesn't make sense tbh.

weldoninhio

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Sure if they are on the breadline and the dole is such a great income I'm surprised they continue to remain working. Doesn't make sense tbh.

It’s a little thing called self respect.

the_syco

Hector Savage wrote: »

It's a 'bonus' as it's a more expensive time of the year.
Would you like to be on €188 a week ??
And then an extra €160 (?) for the 'bonus' week ?

Does that include the rental allowance, medical card, fuel money, etc?