Once great brands ...... now junk.

Junkyard Tom · 29-11-2017 7:34am

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Without derailing the thread, what general brands do people consider good quality/value?

Honda.

Third_Echelon · 29-11-2017 7:40am

RDM_83 again wrote: »

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Soft drinks manufacturers have RUINED the taste and satisfaction associated with their products recently by cutting the amount of sugar and adding artificial sweeteners and stevia glycosides.

The whole point of lucozade for instance was that it provided a large dose of satisfaction from its extremely high sugar content but now this has been robbed from us.

I remember 15 years ago the standard for cordial (mi wadi etc.) was for it to contain added sugar (ie. be satisfying). With mi-wadi in particular, bottles of "full-sugar" used to have a green cap, no-added-sugar would have a blue cap. 10 years ago I noticed more and more flavours could only be found in no-added-sugar form (eg. lime). The other night I was in a supermarker and I don't think it was even POSSIBLE to buy cordial with added sugar. So from my perspective, it is no longer possible to buy satisfying cordial like was once the case.
Similarly go the soft drinks fridge in any garage or supermarket - drinks like Vit Hit, soft drinks with the word "zero", everything advertising that it has "zero" calories - if I was given one of these drinks when I was a child I wouldn't have drank it, and thats saying something.

The following drinks, if you look at the label, state that they contain sugar AND SWEETENERS where a few months ago it didn't.
- Club Rock Shandy (the most unfortunate of them all as it is a very popular drink - I could tell instantly it had been altered for the worse)
- Fanta (tastes watery and doesn't hit the spot in your brain anymore)
- Club lemon (not as satisfying)
- Seven UP (contains stevia)
For all these drinks (and more) you can see that the calorie content per 100 mls has decreased significantly. So while it represents a victory for the health lobbyists and scientists looking to have a purpose in life, it robs the general population of yet another source of pleasure for in their lives.

They are clearly doing a few things:
- 1. aiming to avoid the sugar tax and then trying to compensate by adding non-sugar sweeteners.
- 2. trying to adapt to a changing culture where people are obsessed with not putting on weight and so they try to position as the standard version of their beverages, the one with "no added sugar". I noticed reacently an ad for coca cola (a general ad for normal coke, diet coke and coke zero) which featured at the end of their ad a bottle of coke zero where previously it would have been the flagship product of normal coke. I just picture all the marketing people thinking they are geniuses coming up with the idea of aiming towards a healthier market and that people wont notice their drinks now taste way worse.

I notice though that the most popular flagship brands of Coca Cola, Pepsi and Club Orange have not yet been ruined because the manufacters aren't stupid enough to think people won't notice, like they did in 1985 when "new coke" was a massive flop. But even coca cola must be changed since 12 years ago when I remember it tasting wayyyy better, even more than can be accounted for than just the fact I was a teenager

My main drinks are water, tea and (maybe once or twice a month) beer but I do like an occasional full sugar fizzy drink for a TREAT. The era of satisfying soft drinks seems to be coming to an end though as the norm becomes for soft drinks to contain lower and lower amounts of energy and to not have any impact on insulin. It annoys me that "the government" decide to impose these sugar taxes and the drinks manufacturers (who owe us nothing at the end of the day) are basically cornered into ruining their products to pay for it.

So, chocolate is universally recognised to be EXTREMELY diminished in quality in recent years (less cocoa mass, more disgusting candle-wax resembling fat) and now soft drinks as we knew them are on the way out.

I don't know if you can get it on this side of the world but mexican coke cola is the product your looking for.
Places sell it in the US and Canada as a speciality product or in mexican restaurants, it comes in 400/500 mil ish size glass bottles and has a metric f-ckton of cane sugar in it so it's a way better drink.

Yeah Mexican Coke is so good. Real sugar cane as you say vs the corn syrup used in the US. The difference in taste is incredible. I’m currently living in the US. If I’m out somewhere and they are serving Mexican coke, I have to order it.

With regards to ‘New Coke’ that was brought out in the 80s. The US market didn’t like it, so they went back to the original receipe. The rest of the world stayed with the new coke formula right up to today.

I did a tour of the coke plant/HQ in Atlanta. I was working there for a few weeks providing a software service. Free coke drinks at every break area/coffee station. All the discontinued varieties. All the employees were hopped up on sugar though

29-11-2017 7:41am

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

Levis jeans. After about ten washes they start to develop holes around the back pockets and the crotch. They try to get around this by writing on the label not to wash them too much so as not to damage the environment.

You sure they're Levi's as in bought in a Levi's shop?

Never had that issue. But do know of popular clothes shops in city centres that have sold knock offs. Because of that I wouldn't buy Levi's from an independent clothes store.

long_b · 29-11-2017 7:44am

Dr Martens boots

dodzy · 29-11-2017 7:53am

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Sony is a good brand and is far from junk but imo it's not the last word in quality as it once was. Anyone remember the trinitron flat screen tv's? They were pure quality.

32” Trinitron with the integrated unit underneath was a real monster & a quality bit of kit. Added bonus: if some scrote broke into your house while you slept, you could bet your ass that TV would still be there in the morning.

I remember I was chucking one out ma y moons ago and the old man said “I’ll have it”. Still in his bedroom, and working perfectly.

Remember the days when washing machines would last for in excess of 10yrs with constant use? Long gone are they.

Third_Echelon · 29-11-2017 7:55am

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

AMKC wrote: »

Black and Decker.

Used to be great but where are they now?

Motorolo although I am not sure they were ever any good. Had one of the phones and it drove be nuts. The operating system onn it was terrible.

Motorola were pioneers in the mobile phone sector and produced the classic 80's brick phone, the first flip phone, razr and moto ranges. Their mobile division is now part of Lenovo though.

Yeah. Motorola mobility was also briefly owned by Google for intellectual property stripping mostly, then sold on and bought by Lenovo.

29-11-2017 8:11am

MarcusP12 wrote: »

Were bush and alba ever really a "great" brand? Popular maybe but great? Not so sure....and did they ever produce anything other than cheap crap? Reason I say is that if I remember correctly, bush and alba were always considered budget brands compared to sony, sharp, Philips, etc back in the day. Not that any of them were that high end but when I was a kid, if you had sony or something like that, you were "posh"!

When I was getting into sound systems (as a kid), I was never interested in Alba as I considered them a bit cheap. It was all about Aiwa back then as a viable alternative to sony....I had a savage 3 CD with virtual surround sound and karaoke, optical input, etc....lovely bit of kit! They were also my Walkman of choice....Does anyone know if they even exist any more in any capacity?.....to me that would be a good example of a great brand (as opposed to Alba) that's producing crap if anything at all.....

Maybe not in more recent times but in the 70s they made some good stuff. We had a Bush TV for about 25 years.

RDM_83 again · 29-11-2017 8:41am

long_b wrote: »

Dr Martens boots

I don't wear Dr martens myself but AFAIK the product line is now split, you have the made in asia lines and separate made England type, I don't mind the idea of this type of thing so much as the change of production isn't too hidden.

For shoes/boots I tend to go mid price point and pick up high end ones in thrift/charity shops but I do wonder about the buy it for life* thing people talk about, maybe for dress type shoes it applies but even ones that are seriously expensive new do wear (even if slower and much more repairable).

*If anybody is familiar with the Buy it for life sub-reddit I have suspicions it's used for marketing by certain brands.

29-11-2017 9:12am

NIMAN wrote: »

Interesting reading..

Most of the posts have been about companies that are a household name which are no longer associated with the original company, but made cheaply and rebadged to fool the public.

I still hear people look at the likes of Argos or HotUKDeals and say "look, a 4k Hitachi/Sharp/JVC for £300, thats a good deal", when in fact they may as well go and buy the Cello, Technika or Alba model.

Product Licensing. It can have many different meanings and be a very good thing, but in this case I think we are talking about a form of consumer-misleading product licensing here.

Licensing involves obtaining permission from a company (licensor) to manufacture and sell one or more of its products within a defined market area. The company that obtains these rights (the licensee) usually agrees to pay a royalty fee to the original owner.

That and Planned Obsolescence are a curse on consumers. Many of whom unfortunately aren't aware about either of those practices.

With product licensing in this sense, 'Company A' spends years making quality products and building up consumer trust in the product and brand. Eventually, Company A will allow an unknown (to the general consumer) 'Company B' to bid for the right to manufacture and sell Company A's products. Company A (with all that consumer trust built up over years of selling quality products) then licences their product, and in many cases the brand name too, to Company B.

Both Company A and B go on to reap the benefits and rewards - Company A are getting paid a royalty for licensing their product. Company B, with none of that proven reputation and consumer trust, are now making and selling products as if they were Company A. Now they have that reputation and consumer trust, overnight, despite not showing anything to the consumer to prove they are deserving of those things.

Meanwhile, we the general consumer are in the dark wondering why our new 'Phillips' TV isn't as good as the old Phillips, or why those 'Duracell' batteries in the remote control are dead after changing them only a few months ago.

It's a fúcked up practice which only serves to increase profits. I'm all for businesses and companies increasing profits, once it's a mutual agreement and they still hold up their end of the bargain with the consumer. Selling/renting their trusted brand name to inferior companies who will make inferior products but still charge the same price, that crosses the line out of that mutual agreement.

Between Planned Obsolescence and the above kind of product licensing, it's not wrong to say that they really don't make them like they used to.

CrankyHaus · 29-11-2017 9:41am

I didn't know about Lonsdale being changed to junk by Sportsdirect until I read this thread...explains why a pair of boxing gloves I got from them only months ago have already had all the padding slide back from the knuckle (and not after heavy use either).

I got badly burned by Phillips products a couple of years ago before I learned they're licensed rubbish. Build quality was as bad as anything I've ever seen: headphones where the line-in simply detached within months and a sound system that turns on at ear-shattering volume randomly at all hours (shuts-off randomly too).

Stanley gear outside the blades is dire. Had a new measuring tool snap after 2 weeks this year.

Internet research is a great resource for avoiding this sort of thing, and finding some excellent brands that would be under the radar otherwise.

Hotblack Desiato · 29-11-2017 9:46am

Third_Echelon wrote: »

The rest of the world stayed with the new coke formula right up to today.

New coke never made it outside of the US.

Branding is a funny thing. I remember when we ordered a new (rented) Bush TV, what came out of the box was a Murphy, its sister brand. My dad was raging even though it was the same TV from the same factory, literally the only difference was the badge.

British Leyland in the 60s/70s was big into badge engineering, they even maintained the pretence for years that Austin and Morris were entirely separate makes with separate dealer networks, etc, even though all of the cars launched post-merger differed only in the badge. Until they moved away from that strategy with the wonderful Allegro and Marina...

Avatar MIA · 29-11-2017 10:00am

SuperS54 wrote: »

Dell haven't gotten out of the PC business, they still market a wide range of PC's and laptops, primarily aimed at business customers in the west (using one right now) and they sell a lot of (pretty crap) consumer pc's and laptops in China.

What I meant was that once it was everything, now it's only a small division.

SuperS54 · 29-11-2017 10:53am

Avatar MIA wrote: »

What I meant was that once it was everything, now it's only a small division.

Think it's more than a small division based on their wiki entry for 2016;

Current operations
Approximately 50% of the company's revenue is derived in the United States.

Dell operates under 3 divisions as follows:

Dell Client Solutions Group (60% of 2016 revenues) – produces desktop PCs, notebooks, tablets, and peripherals, such as monitors, printers, and projectors under the Dell brand name

Dell EMC Infrastructure Solutions Group (35% of 2016 revenues) – storage solutions

VMware (5% of 2016 revenues) – a publicly traded company focused on virtualization and cloud infrastructure

Dell also owns 4 separate businesses: RSA, Pivotal Software, SecureWorks, and Boomi, Inc.

Avatar MIA · 29-11-2017 11:04am

SuperS54 wrote: »

Think it's more than a small division based on their wiki entry for 2016;

Current operations
Approximately 50% of the company's revenue is derived in the United States.

Dell operates under 3 divisions as follows:

Dell Client Solutions Group (60% of 2016 revenues) – produces desktop PCs, notebooks, tablets, and peripherals, such as monitors, printers, and projectors under the Dell brand name

Dell EMC Infrastructure Solutions Group (35% of 2016 revenues) – storage solutions

VMware (5% of 2016 revenues) – a publicly traded company focused on virtualization and cloud infrastructure

Dell also owns 4 separate businesses: RSA, Pivotal Software, SecureWorks, and Boomi, Inc.

Yes, I was including the 4 separate businesses. I was at a meeting in Dell a couple of weeks back and they see themselves as 7 businesses.

Ubbquittious · 29-11-2017 11:12am

AEG - Sold their consumer goods brand to some cute hoor with a PC who just sits in his office ordering Chinese sh1t from Alibaba and reselling it while he runs said brandname into the ground.

Same for Russel Hobbs - these lads used to have actual real life factories in the UK producing actual physical goods. Now it's just an office some place that orders in tack from various unheard of Chinese manufacturers

Ubbquittious · 29-11-2017 11:13am

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Bahco once made the finest saw blades and wrenches, top class Swedish steel. Now their stuff is made in Argentina and the quality is rubbish.

On the electronics front, are FujitsuTen still making anything? They had a good name in car stereo back in the mid 80's

I bought a Bahco 8072 not terribly long ago and it was made in Spain, have they moved again?

cantdecide · 29-11-2017 11:18am

Ubbquittious wrote: »

I bought a Bahco 8072 not terribly long ago and it was made in Spain, have they moved again?

A 'thumb-seeking-nut-f*cker'?

seamus · 29-11-2017 11:25am

SuperS54 wrote: »

Dell haven't gotten out of the PC business, they still market a wide range of PC's and laptops, primarily aimed at business customers in the west (using one right now) and they sell a lot of (pretty crap) consumer pc's and laptops in China.

To be fair to Dell, they've managed to go the opposite way. In the 2000's I would have regarded them as bloated, slow, shoddily designed, expensive pieces of crap and advised anyone not to buy one - especially as a home PC.

Since the consumer PC market has been annihilated, the quality of what they produce has improved immensely and prices have actually come down.

Nekarsulm · 29-11-2017 11:37am

Ubbquittious wrote: »

I bought a Bahco 8072 not terribly long ago and it was made in Spain, have they moved again?

They are now a worldwide group, I think it's based in Spain, but I have spanners of theirs that are made in Argentina. It's a direct copy of a genuine Swedish wrench I have, but poorer quality. The wall of the ring is far thicker in the Argentinian one, indicating (to me anyway) that they are substituting more metal to replace higher quality metal.

MarcusP12 · 29-11-2017 11:45am

Karsini wrote: »

Maybe not in more recent times but in the 70s they made some good stuff. We had a Bush TV for about 25 years.

I think we possibly had one too but can't be sure! To be fair, I was probably thinking more about Alba in my post and from say the 90's on when I became more brand conscious....

storker · 29-11-2017 11:48am

red sean wrote: »

Zanussi. Once advertised as "The appliance of science". Now complete crap!

Along with Hotpoint & Whirlpool. Our next dishwasher will be a Siemens. The current Hotpoint is very unreliable. Our Hotpoint washing machine is running OK, but I got a glance at the guts behind the control board once when doing a repair on the program selector knob, and I got a shock at how flimsy and barely-hanging-together the whole assembly was.

We bought into the Dyson hype for a long time too. No more. All the Dyson vacuum cleaners in the Storker extended family have needed frequent repair/replacement or lack power, or are bad designed e.g. the stairs hose in the upright.

storker · 29-11-2017 11:49am

Seagate Backup Exec.

(Actually pretty much anything taken over by Symantec)

29-11-2017 11:58am

storker wrote: »

Seagate Backup Exec.

(Actually pretty much anything taken over by Symantec)

Oh my god yes! Symantec wrecked it in Backup Exec 2012 and then never bothered to update it for Server 2012 until about two years after the OS was released!

29-11-2017 11:59am

storker wrote: »

Along with Hotpoint & Whirlpool. Our next dishwasher will be a Siemens. The current Hotpoint is very unreliable. Our Hotpoint washing machine is running OK, but I got a glance at the guts behind the control board once when doing a repair on the program selector knob, and I got a shock at how flimsy and barely-hanging-together the whole assembly was.

Not to mention the firetrap dryers they made for the last 15-odd years.

artanevilla · 29-11-2017 12:00pm

Well I'm not ever buying anything anymore anyway.

Sky King · 29-11-2017 12:03pm

storker wrote: »

Our next dishwasher will be a Siemens.

We bought into the Dyson hype for a long time too. No more. All the Dyson vacuum cleaners in the Storker extended family have needed frequent repair/replacement or lack power, or are bad designed e.g. the stairs hose in the upright.

Bosch white goods for the win.

Also I never bought into the gimmicky ****e of Dyson. All marketing and no substance. Professional cleaning companies never seem to use them in my experience and that's enough for me.

CruelCoin · 29-11-2017 12:06pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Any others spring to mind?

Nokia.

Who in the **** is going to buy a "Microsoft Lumia"

Fitz* · 29-11-2017 12:08pm

Caliden wrote: »

They sold the HP branding for cameras & printers to someone else.

Their main focus now is enterprise/servers/applications.

They've moved away from the hardware side of things but have let others use the HP name.

jmayo wrote: »

I didn't know they had sold out all printers, but I did know they are built in China.

Actually they didn't sell them off.

They separated the company by divisions.

1) Printers & Personal Systems. This was known as HPI - Hewlett Packard Inc, so it retained the original, client- known name.
2) Enterprise Servers, cloud, apps etc. This was known as HPE - Hewlett Packard Enterprise.

3) HPE has since sold off its Enterprise Services division to merge with CSC to form DXC Technology
4) HPE merged it's software division with Micro Focus, to be knows as Micro Focus.

I know this is I helped separate them, 3 times.

29-11-2017 12:10pm

Dyson is a complete rip off.

All smooth talk about technology, design and efficiency and just a poor vacuum cleaner. And because it was so successful, they have tried the exact same gimmick across the range "here's a product that looks good, performs moderately well, but now we're gonna give you some quirky technology angle so you think you have to have it, for twice the price of rival brands".

Sky King · 29-11-2017 12:11pm

Myles Dyson should have just stayed at Skynet.

demanufactured · 29-11-2017 12:12pm

KVI

29-11-2017 12:14pm

demanufactured wrote: »

KVI

Yellow Pack :pac:

storker · 29-11-2017 12:14pm

Karsini wrote: »

Not to mention the firetrap dryers they made for the last 15-odd years.

*gulp*

demanufactured · 29-11-2017 12:15pm

Karsini wrote: »

Yellow Pack :pac:

Pure value

demanufactured · 29-11-2017 12:16pm

Fujitzu Siemens PC's

CrankyHaus · 29-11-2017 12:40pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Dyson is a complete rip off.

All smooth talk about technology, design and efficiency and just a poor vacuum cleaner. And because it was so successful, they have tried the exact same gimmick across the range "here's a product that looks good, performs moderately well, but now we're gonna give you some quirky technology angle so you think you have to have it, for twice the price of rival brands".

Yeah they present themselves as this entirely engineering driven company, as if their competitors are just banging rocks together, but it's just a marketing subterfuge. Also their hand-dryers in pubs are often filth traps at the bottom of the U-shape and I assume only blow all the dirt onto any users hands.

Nekarsulm · 29-11-2017 1:38pm

Cleaning companies seem to use Henry hoover's more than any other make.

About 8 years ago I worked in a letting agency, and you'd be in and out of lots of housing estates and renovation projects.
I pulled a Henry hoover out of a builders skip one day and brought it home.
It seemed to have been used by the builders to clean up sand and tiling grout, no bag in it and internally clogged up.
Cleaned out everything I could, and it's still working away now.

theteal · 29-11-2017 1:48pm

Third_Echelon wrote: »

Aiwa stereos... had a great one on the 90s. Fantastic sound...

There's a blast from the past. I remember having a really expensive Aiwa "Walkman" when I was about 15. T'was my pride and joy. I can't believe I completely forgot about that brand.

ThisRegard · 29-11-2017 2:16pm

seamus wrote: »

To be fair to Dell, they've managed to go the opposite way. In the 2000's I would have regarded them as bloated, slow, shoddily designed, expensive pieces of crap and advised anyone not to buy one - especially as a home PC.

Since the consumer PC market has been annihilated, the quality of what they produce has improved immensely and prices have actually come down.

Reminds me, as a student in the 90s I used to work somewhere that sold Packard Bells, you didn't get a lot for their money. Privately I'd advise people to seek out Dells or Gateways.

I had an Aiwa stereo during that period, it was great. Didn't look as snazzy as the Sonys with all their fancy lights and equalisers, had a backlit LCD display, but the sound was much better which was the main thing.

And I'm going to stand up for Dyson, have one over 15 years, it has rolled down the stairs numerous times and it still works great.

tooManyChoices · 29-11-2017 2:27pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Dyson is a complete rip off.

All smooth talk about technology, design and efficiency and just a poor vacuum cleaner. And because it was so successful, they have tried the exact same gimmick across the range "here's a product that looks good, performs moderately well, but now we're gonna give you some quirky technology angle so you think you have to have it, for twice the price of rival brands".

Once great brands ...... now junk.

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