Why are our museums a bit crap?

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If tourists aren’t visiting howth then there’s a lot more immigrants in this country than we thought.

In fact tourists don’t just stick to the city centre. Most of the guides suggest a trip to howth or Dalkey. Plenty of tourists can get their way outside the city centre.

duvetdayss

Natural history museum, national art gallery etc are free entry. I haven't been to IMMA, I believe there's a fee to enter but I can't comment on the quality.

The Guggenheim in Bilbao has an entrance and it's not cheap. Brilliant museum but shouldn't be compared to a public museum.

John_Rambo

Frank Squeaking Color wrote: »

Museums after 2020 will generally become immersive VR & AR based delivery events.

I hear where you're coming from, but The National museum has real artifacts and human remains. Absolutely fascinating and updated regularly with different exhibitions happening all the time. No VR or AR based exhibit can beat the preserved remains of our ancestors.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Frank Squeaking Color wrote: »

Museums after 2020 will generally become immersive VR & AR based delivery events.

Maybe it's just me, but the whole idea of going to to a museum or gallery is to see the real item or the painting just as it is. I can look up an online replica of it right now, thank you very much, and to be honest - with paintings anyway - the online copies never do them justice no matter how good a copy they are.

Alun

server down wrote: »

If tourists aren’t visiting howth then there’s a lot more immigrants in this country than we thought.

Same goes for the Bray to Greystones cliff path. It's a rare thing to hear an Irish accent from the people walking it even on a dull weekday.

wakka12

John_Rambo wrote: »

The weather's bad? Coastal villages not set foot in by tourists? Tourists don't go as far as Parnell square? Vast majority of historical heritage destroyed? Bad transport for Tourists?

Are you living in a bubble?

Have you done the CIE hop on, hop off bus tour? Or one of the others? A cycle tour? The coastal tour? Have you got the DART to Howth, Malahide, Dalkey, Greystones, Killiney, Bray? Have you done an architectural tour? It's no wonder you can't understand what's attracting tourists! They do stuff you don't know exists!

If you don't know that the vast majority of dublins architectural heritage has been demolished since independence, then you're the ignorant one. Go look up a john rocque of dublin from before 1913 and learn something. The liberties were practically wiped out, Wood quay and ESB headquarters are tip of the iceberg of cultural atrocities committed against dublin
Ive never done a tour but I know all about Dublins history and have visited literally everywhere in dublin many times
Public transport is absolute ****e I don't see any argument against this. And the weather is objectively bad, as most people don't like cloudy and wet weather. You gonna try argue against that too?

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wakka12 wrote: »

If you don't know that the vast majority of dublins architectural heritage has been demolished since independence, then you're the ignorant one. Go look up a john rocque of dublin from before 1913
Ive never done a tour but I know all about Dublins history and have visited literally everywhere in dublin many times
Public transport is absolute ****e I don't see any argument against this. And the weather is objectively bad, as most people don't like cloudy and wet weather. You gonna try argue against that too?

None of this has anything to do with tourism or tourists. They come to see the architecture Dublin has not what it used to have.

The weather is bad in London, it’s rainy in Seattle. People know this. Lovers of the sun don’t come.

Oh an tourists rarely use public transport since most would stay close to the city and when they do have to its off peak.

humberklog

wakka12 wrote: »

And the weather is objectively bad, as most people don't like cloudy and wet weather. You gonna try argue against that too?

Do you think there are tourists who make the odd choice to come to Ireland and are surprisingly disappointed in the weather? Even without Googling I'm pretty sure most would have a notion of damp weather being associated with the island.

During the summer we get a lot of mediterranean and southern US visitors who love it, I know this as I talk to them every day. Our weather is known and for the most part liked.

Business travellers from northern Europe and North US/Canada are pleasantly surprised at our comparably mild winters.

Living with it of course is different. I like the heat and sun myself.

Public transport can be hit and miss but car rental in Ireland is really cheap in comparison to other countries and as said earlier the couch tours are supposed to be well run, well priced and great crack.

PhoenixParker

The weather in Dublin is great for tourists. Never too hot, never too cold. Perfect for a city break. There are bad patches but most of the time there's very little rain and what there is usually stops and starts so you can move easily between stuff.

Public transport to the suburbs for commuters is terrible but for tourists the airport is very close to the city and the city is walkable. Tourists don't care that there's a dart less then every ten minutes at peak hour.

Architecture wise Dublin may feel boring to us but many of our visitors are european. Endless suburbs, brick buildings and a low rise city centre are totally different for them.

At night there's something every night which can't be said of many many cities.

John_Rambo

wakka12 wrote: »

If you don't know that the vast majority of dublins architectural heritage has been demolished since independence, then you're the ignorant one. Go look up a john rocque of dublin from before 1913 and learn something. The liberties were practically wiped out, Wood quay and ESB headquarters are tip of the iceberg of cultural atrocities committed against dublin

Most of it’s still standing. Hence the architecturally based tourism that goes on in the city. If the “vast majority” of the cities heritage was demolished we’d have a city devoid of heritage and culture. This is not the case as we all know.

wakka12 wrote: »

Ive never done a tour

You need to do a few.

wakka12 wrote: »

Public transport is absolute ****e I don't see any argument against this. And the weather is objectively bad, as most people don't like cloudy and wet weather. You gonna try argue against that too?

Stunning morning this morning! Look, public transport maybe bad from where ever you live to where ever you work at rush our and that’s you’re problem, but when it comes to walking from Grafton street to the spire at 10am on a crisp, dry, sunny winter’s Friday Dublin is pretty manageable.

Dublin’s weather is temperate with very low rainfall compared to the West of the country. It’s cool and not very humid. Perfect for city walking.

wakka12

John_Rambo wrote: »

Most of it’s still standing. Hence the architecturally based tourism that goes on in the city. If the “vast majority” of the cities heritage was demolished we’d have a city devoid of heritage and culture. This is not the case as we all know.



You need to do a few.



Stunning morning this morning! Look, public transport maybe bad from where ever you live to where ever you work at rush our and that’s you’re problem, but when it comes to walking from Grafton street to the spire at 10am on a crisp, dry, sunny winter’s Friday Dublin is pretty manageable.

Dublin’s weather is temperate with very low rainfall compared to the West of the country. It’s cool and not very humid. Perfect for city walking.

Go look up a map you're just wrong completely wrong
What do you think used to be there before central bank? Ulster bank georges quay? Hawkins house? The hundreds of modern apartments? The social housing blocks at kevin street? The social housing at charlemont? Dolphins barn? The entirety of Summerhill parade?The big apartment blocks around Smithfield? Dublin business school Dame street? All the horrid buildings along nassau street? Before ilac centre? Before jervis centre? Wood quay and ESB?The dozens of empty and derelict sites around the city, along the red luas line?Where are our turkish baths gone?Tara street baths? Rathmines castle? Kildare place? Alexandra college hatch street? Half of stephens green georgian houses?Wesley college stephens green? Liberty hall? Royal theatre?tivoli and queen theatre? Metropole hotel?Four courts hotel? Findlater corner?Cook street? Chamber Street? Denmark Street?Old camden Street? Lower dominic street?Where rialto canal and james basin gone? Not to mention dozens of lovely building here and there along some of our greatest throughfares like grafton, dame, oconnell and henry street which im sure you know nothing of.
Thousands upon thousands of historic buildings were levelled from 1920 -1980's in Dublin
You're completely ignorant to the cultural atrocities committed against a city you claim to know anything about

Dublin still has an okay historic stock because at its peak under british rule it was one of the largest cities in the world, but still developers during post idependence period did as much damage as could possibly have been done

And you don't need historic buildings to be cultural. Plenty of cities in middle east and south america are horrible concrete jungles but have amazing and vibrant cultures

John_Rambo

That’s a fascinating rant. Awful stuff about the buildings that have been knocked down.

It still doesn’t stop tourists flocking to the historical, cultural, vibrant city that Dublin is.

wakka12

John_Rambo wrote: »

That’s a fascinating rant. Awful stuff about the buildings that have been knocked down.

It still doesn’t stop tourists flocking to the historical, cultural, vibrant city that Dublin is.

Yes seems to still be enough to bring in the punters but that wasn't your argument, you said most of Dublins historical buildings weren't demolished ,and you're wrong about that

John_Rambo

wakka12 wrote: »

Yes seems to still be enough to bring in the punters but that wasn't your argument, you said most of Dublins historical buildings weren't demolished ,and you're wrong about that

You didn’t know why tourists come to Dublin because of your misconceptions about weather, culture, transport and the fact that you thought the whole city was a shambles and nobody made an effort and tourists never leave the city centre to visit any of the seaside towns and villages.

You were educated.

Get over it.

wakka12

John_Rambo wrote: »

You didn’t know why tourists come to Dublin because of your misconceptions about weather, culture, transport and the fact that you thought the whole city was a shambles and nobody made an effort and tourists never leave the city centre to visit any of the seaside towns and villages.

You were educated.

Get over it.

So you're counting the city being small enough to be walkable as good transport? Thanks for the education
You said most of Dublins architectural heritage still remains, which it doesn't. Thats what I was arguing about in recent post and which you were completely ignorant of

Bazzer007

I think Dublin has many wonderful museums and visitor attractions. I love Collins Barracks, EPIC, Kilmainham Jail, the Jennie Johnson etc., and I have many more to see yet. Dublin is blessed compared to Cork city - I know it’s not a fair comparison, but I live near Cork city and we have very little to offer. Limerick has Kings John Castle, the Hunt Museum and the Foynes Flying Boat Museum. I often bring friends and relations visiting from abroad to Limerick before Cork. I wish that wasn’t the case. I agree Dublin architecture can look bleak on a dark and dreary day like Limerick. That’s where Cork wins hands down.

John_Rambo

wakka12 wrote: »

So you're counting the city being small enough to be walkable as good transport? Thanks for the education
You said most of Dublins architectural heritage still remains, which it doesn't. Thats what I was arguing about in recent post and which you were completely ignorant of

Yet again… whilst public transport may not be good where you choose to live, tourist transport options that you’ve never experienced are excellent. The hop on hop off and cycle tours are excellent and the DART is a fantastic way of getting up and down the coast.

Try one of these and get back to me.

https://www.dublinsightseeing.ie

https://citysightseeingdublin.ie/hop-on-hop-off/

http://cityscapetours.ie

https://dodublin.ie

https://www.dublinpass.com/dublin-attractions/dublin-hop-on-hop-off-bus-tour.html

http://www.dublincitybiketours.com

http://www.seedublinbybike.ie

http://lazybiketours.com

https://www.viator.com/Dublin-tours/Walking-and-Biking-Tours/d503-g16

Edit - I was unaware of just how much historical buildings have been lost. I didn't know the majority of is has been razed.

Dr Crayfish

I live by Raheny Dart but I prefer to cycle as I find the Dart incredibly frustrating. Had to take it to Greystones last week for work and the amount of times it stops for no reason is a joke. Also it goes so bloody slow. If it went at a decent speed surely the journey would take half the time.
The views when you get to Killiney are fantastic though.

Dr Crayfish

I might add I brought a visiting Kiwi around Dublin a few times and she said she'd much rather live here than Sydney, where she used to live. In saying that we were blessed with good weather at the time.

loyatemu

what Dublin is a bit lacking is stuff to do with kids on a wet day. Mine have been to the main museums multiple times with the family or on school tours. The Science Gallery occasionally has interesting stuff but it's very small. As others have said the Wax Museum is terrible, if not as bad as that one in Great Yarmouth linked further up the thread (though their Boy George is spot on!)

A Disgrace

John_Rambo wrote: »

Most of it’s still standing. Hence the architecturally based tourism that goes on in the city. If the “vast majority” of the cities heritage was demolished we’d have a city devoid of heritage and culture. This is not the case as we all know.

70% of the buildings that were standing in Dublin City as recently as the 1950's are now gone (I've heard (roughly) this figure mentioned at many seminars etc)

Think Parnell Street, Sean McDermott Street, Aungier Street, Nicholas/Patrick/Clanbrassil Street, Cork Street, The Coombe, High Street, Church Street, Bridgefoot Street, Cook Street, Werburgh Street, Smithfield, Jame's Street, Cuffe St, Kevin St, Bride St, Half the Quays, Mercer St, Marrowbone Lane, Golden Lane, North King St, Dominick St, Summerhill, half of Mountjoy Sq, a third of Stephens Green - all of these were obliterated in the 60's/70's and 80's, and they're only the tip of the iceberg.

Dr Crayfish

A Disgrace wrote: »

70% of the buildings that were standing in Dublin City as recently as the 1950's are now gone (I've heard (roughly) this figure mentioned at many seminars etc)

Think Parnell Street, Sean McDermott Street, Aungier Street, Nicholas/Patrick/Clanbrassil Street, Cork Street, The Coombe, High Street, Church Street, Bridgefoot Street, Cook Street, Werburgh Street, Smithfield, Jame's Street, Cuffe St, Kevin St, Bride St, Half the Quays, Mercer St, Marrowbone Lane, Golden Lane, North King St, Dominick St, Summerhill, half of Mountjoy Sq, a third of Stephens Green - all of these were obliterated in the 60's/70's and 80's, and they're only the tip of the iceberg.

It's a real shame isn't it. If they were around today they'd be listed and done up. Look at Edinburgh for example, so many beautiful buildings, here it's just so inconsistent.

wakka12

loyatemu wrote: »

what Dublin is a bit lacking is stuff to do with kids on a wet day. Mine have been to the main museums multiple times with the family or on school tours. The Science Gallery occasionally has interesting stuff but it's very small. As others have said the Wax Museum is terrible, if not as bad as that one in Great Yarmouth linked further up the thread (though their Boy George is spot on!)

There is a large state of the art childrens science museum to open in iveagh gardens. I think it was meant to open 2018, as far as i can see no construction started yet though so might be delayed. But it has planning permission

wakka12

A Disgrace wrote: »

70% of the buildings that were standing in Dublin City as recently as the 1950's are now gone (I've heard (roughly) this figure mentioned at many seminars etc)

Think Parnell Street, Sean McDermott Street, Aungier Street, Nicholas/Patrick/Clanbrassil Street, Cork Street, The Coombe, High Street, Church Street, Bridgefoot Street, Cook Street, Werburgh Street, Smithfield, Jame's Street, Cuffe St, Kevin St, Bride St, Half the Quays, Mercer St, Marrowbone Lane, Golden Lane, North King St, Dominick St, Summerhill, half of Mountjoy Sq, a third of Stephens Green - all of these were obliterated in the 60's/70's and 80's, and they're only the tip of the iceberg.

Yup. Its not immediately obvious though as most of the buildings were reconstructed in red brick with similar fenestration proportions to georgian buildings. And old narrow wonky road layouts survived..so dublin still retains the old town vibe

Anyway we should count ourselves lucky in some respects as there were plans to put a giant bus station on the whole of temple bar, demolish the entirety merrion square and put a concrete cathedral on top, put a motorway along the quay side, and fill in the canals with concrete

Dublin could gotten off much much worse :pac:

wakka12

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

It's a real shame isn't it. If they were around today they'd be listed and done up. Look at Edinburgh for example, so many beautiful buildings, here it's just so inconsistent.

I think the areas should be reconstructed to look how they did before tbh. Its just so ****ing unfair that greedy businessmen before conservation laws could just levels entire beautiful districts for absolutely no reason and steal the heritage from future generations
And modern architecture is just simply not capable of reproducing the nice little streets that georgian architecture could

What are people's opinions on that?^ Im kinda interested to know what people's opinion in general is on that

Dr Crayfish

wakka12 wrote: »

I think the areas should be reconstructed to look how they did before tbh. Its just so ****ing unfair that greedy businessmen before conservation laws could just levels entire beautiful districts for absolutely no reason and steal the heritage from future generations
And modern architecture is just simply not capable of reproducing the nice little streets that georgian architecture could

What are people's opinions on that?^ Im kinda interested to know what people's opinion in general is on that

The worst example for me is near where I work, what is now Agriculture house. It used to look like this



It's a big honking eyesore now, I don't even want to post a picture of it.

Anyway not a lot we can do about the old buildings being gone, just improve on what we have. I actually can't remember what this thread is about any more and can't see the title on my phone!

wakka12

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

The worst example for me is near where I work, what is now Agriculture house. It used to look like this



It's a big honking eyesore now, I don't even want to post a picture of it.

Anyway not a lot we can do about the old buildings being gone, just improve on what we have. I actually can't remember what this thread is about any more and can't see the title on my phone!

Well some of them could come back. Frankfurt is now rebuilding some buildings that were either demolsihed or bombed 70 years ago. They had a grand opening a week ago of the reconstructed district
I don't see why that couldn't happen in Dublin. Obviously in the above scenario it'd be hard as there are government offices now. But I don't see why summer hill or dominic street or cuffe or kevin street couldn't be reconstructed, as they're quite sparsely populated with poor quality social housing and have a lot of completely derelict/empty sites along them too

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wakka12 wrote: »

So you're counting the city being small enough to be walkable as good transport? Thanks for the education
You said most of Dublins architectural heritage still remains, which it doesn't. Thats what I was arguing about in recent post and which you were completely ignorant of

Yes, most tourists walk. Or take the hop on hop off tours which can act as a local circular public transport. In a week’s time they can use the luas. To go to howth or the southside they take the dart. Which works perfectly well off peak. Most hotels are in walkable distance or just off the southern dart line. The exceptions are the airport hotels and the ones catering to companies on the M50.

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Could the interesting architectural stuff go to a different thread?

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A Disgrace wrote: »

70% of the buildings that were standing in Dublin City as recently as the 1950's are now gone (I've heard (roughly) this figure mentioned at many seminars etc)

Think Parnell Street, Sean McDermott Street, Aungier Street, Nicholas/Patrick/Clanbrassil Street, Cork Street, The Coombe, High Street, Church Street, Bridgefoot Street, Cook Street, Werburgh Street, Smithfield, Jame's Street, Cuffe St, Kevin St, Bride St, Half the Quays, Mercer St, Marrowbone Lane, Golden Lane, North King St, Dominick St, Summerhill, half of Mountjoy Sq, a third of Stephens Green - all of these were obliterated in the 60's/70's and 80's, and they're only the tip of the iceberg.

How much of that was of real architectural interest though? Every era knocks some buildings down.