Trinity College to drop ‘freshman’ term over inclusivity concerns

baylah17

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

It's nice they're trying to be more open and inclusive. However, if Trinity is serious about improving itself, it needs to set about doing a lot more than changing a few documents and sending a few missives.

I totally agree, but that requires funding and when you compare the amount of money available to other world leading University's you will see that UD is the poor relation.

suicide_circus

So is it freshperson now?

Ombudsperson
Bogeyperson
Huperson

Only a confirmed and certified moron would be worried that the suffix "-man" would be exclusitory to females.

Akrasia

I feel sorry for Prince Abdulla of Qatar who will be in 1st year at trinity next september. I hope he has a nice inner lining on his family crested blazer

Akrasia

suicide_circus wrote: »

So is it freshperson now?

Ombudsperson
Bogeyperson
Huperson

Only a confirmed and certified moron would be worried that the suffix "-man" would be exclusitory to females.

freshperson is offensive to those who self identify as Unicorns and Dragons

ancapailldorcha

baylah17 wrote: »

I totally agree, but that requires funding and when you compare the amount of money available to other world leading University's you will see that UD is the poor relation.

So how was it able to attain a place in the top 50 less than 10 years ago?

baylah17

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

So how was it able to attain a place in the top 50 less than 10 years ago?

Well Chuck Feeneys money was helping for a start and its budget has not really increased in the last 10 years as austerity cuts hit education like they hit everything else.

demfad

suicide_circus wrote: »

So is it freshperson now?

Ombudsperson
Bogeyperson
Huperson

Only a confirmed and certified moron would be worried that the suffix "-man" would be exclusitory to females.

It's fresher. Has been in Cambridge for a loooong time. (that's where the word freshman started).

But hey I guess they are certified and confirmed morons? Unless your excellent analysis is somehow wrong.....

ancapailldorcha

baylah17 wrote: »

Well Chuck Feeneys money was helping for a start and its budget has not really increased in the last 10 years as austerity cuts hit education like they hit everything else.

The British have austerity as well. I'm not buying that as their Universities don't appear to have slipped at all.

baylah17

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

The British have austerity as well. I'm not buying that as their Universities don't appear to have slipped at all.

Research it. look at the amount of private sector investment in Oxbridge and compare that to what UD receive, then look at the huge legacys that are bestowed on colleges by wealth individuals.
It appears that you want UD to spin stray into gold.
The fact that our Alma Mater has the ranking it has at all is in and of itself an achievement.
The criteria used by the world rankings are heavily biased towards research work which cost enormous amounts of money, where do you suggest UD get such sums?

ancapailldorcha

baylah17 wrote: »

Research it. look at the amount of private sector investment in Oxbridge and compare that to what UD receive, then look at the huge legacys that are bestowed on colleges by wealth individuals.
It appears that you want UD to spin stray into gold.
The fact that our Alma Mater has the ranking it has at all is in and of itself an achievement.
The criteria used by the world rankings are heavily biased towards research work which cost enormous amounts of money, where do you suggest UD get such sums?

And yet TCD was once 49th? It's funny how the likes of RTE and various government departments were kept in the lifestyles they could afford while research was cut. And then you have various high-tech multinationals in Ireland. Why didn't TCD try to engage with them, exactly?

That you consider TCD's current standing an achievement is emblematic of the problem to be honest. It's the "Ah sure, we're a great wee country tripe" usually spun to defend mediocrity.

baylah17

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

That you consider TCD's current standing an achievement is emblematic of the problem to be honest. It's the "Ah sure, we're a great wee country tripe" usually spun to defend mediocrity.

Well whats your solution, other than you playing the hurler in the ditch?
Introduce full fees and student loans now that you have already availed of free fee?
Order Multi-nationals to invest in their research in UD?
Fact is we are a very small country competing against some very large and richer countries on an uneven playing field, so yes, UD is doing well considering the financial constraints it faces.

Permabear

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ancapailldorcha

baylah17 wrote: »

Well whats your solution, other than you playing the hurler in the ditch?
Introduce full fees and student loans now that you have already availed of free fee?
Order Multi-nationals to invest in their research in UD?
Fact is we are a very small country competing against some very large and richer countries on an uneven playing field, so yes, UD is doing well considering the financial constraints it faces.

I don't have one but then, I'm not being lavishly paid to run the place.

I would suggest that they try to tailor their courses better to the requirements of industry while the state should try to be more supportive of startups. They could also allow students to take a minor vocational specialty like running a business or coding.

ancapailldorcha

Permabear wrote: »

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I don't think comparisons with Harvard are valid Universities like the Karolinska Instituet in Sweden which would be and the UK's Russell group also perform much better in the global rankings.

suicide_circus

demfad wrote: »

It's fresher. Has been in Cambridge for a loooong time. (that's where the word freshman started).

But hey I guess they are certified and confirmed morons? Unless your excellent analysis is somehow wrong.....

Nope, think I hit the nail on the head (excuse the micro aggression)

JohnMc1

Akrasia wrote: »

freshperson is offensive to those who self identify as Unicorns and Dragons

Don't give the lunatics any ideas.

JohnMc1

demfad wrote: »

Its just housekeeping. There is gender equality in Universities now. It takes time for the rules, language, culture to catch up. Same with any change anywhere.

The revelation here is the amount of outrage and offense taken by some over this small inevitable change. Why?

The outrage over the term Freshmen is ridiculous. This isn't about Gender Equality. Its about a bunch of idiots with way too much time on their hands looking for stuff to be outraged over.

server down

Permabear wrote: »

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These surveys have a huge American - Anglo bias.

Does anybody think that the US is producing the best graduates in the world? Really?

Permabear

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Billy86

biko wrote: »

I don't give a **** about gender sensitivity, although I am for dropping it as it's an American term.

Apparently it's from the 1550s: freshman (n.)
1550s, "newcomer, novice," from fresh (adj.1) in the sense "making one's first acquaintance, inexperienced" + man (n.). Sense of "university student in first year" is attested from 1590s. As an adjective by 1805. Freshwoman is from 1620s. Related: Freshmen; freshmanic, freshmanship, freshmanhood.

Will Smith is a plagiarist.

---

Seriously though, fresher sounds better, the fact it is less formal doesn't matter like it would 40-50 years ago, and if they want to go gender neutral it's a much easier way to do so.

Billy86

Permabear wrote: »

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N00bz for IT, freshers for everyone else. Done.

Peregrinus

The US has by far the highest number of the top universities in the world, regardless of whether you measure the top 25, the top 100, the top 200 . . .

However, the US is a big country with a huge university system. The country with the greatest proportion of its students attending a top 100 university is not the US, but the UK (followed by France, I think). If you're a 17-year old in the UK, your chances of being admitted to a top 100 university are between 5 and 8 times better than they would be if you were in the US. I can't remember where I read that, but that's a good enough cite for after hours.

I haven't seen corresponding figures for Ireland, but it wouldn't amaze me to find that if you took, say, the top-ranked 250 universities (of which 4 are Irish) then the proportion of Irish students in a top 250 university is not as high as in the UK, but quite possibly higher than in the US.

Permabear

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jmayo

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

I am really starting to belive that there is a fantasy land out there. Not sure what to call it.

Say a dozen delusioned people go on twitter and complain about something that is not an issue. Then it becomes a thing as others who hear it don't want to appear as racist / sexist / whatever so they accept it as an issue.. Suddenly it's now a thing.

But it's balls. Because at no point do you hear from the people who original had an issue with it. Vast majority just get upset on behalf of others and go with it.

It's fantasy. It's like a Chinese whisper. It gains traction.

Actually as a social experiment we should come up with something push it a bit and see how much traction it gets.
Hell in these days we could actually get funding to do it.

Doltanian wrote: »

Black Midget Transvestites who are transage FTW WTF

Fixed that for you, I think.

server down wrote: »

These surveys have a huge American - Anglo bias.

Does anybody think that the US is producing the best graduates in the world? Really?

Yes, but they are not necessarily yanks.

The likes of MIT is full of non Americans.

server down

Permabear wrote: »

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Yeh. China. Europe. South America.

The US does badly in PISA, is losing its technical edge to China, has universities that seem to be on the verge of continuous cultural wars, so why does it have the best universities.

These are popularity or familiarity contests.

server down

Permabear wrote: »

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If the US or the U.K. is producing people with enormous vision I have yet to see it, outside perhaps of technology.

Unless enormous vision means more wars in the Middle East and the clown show that is Brexit.


Boris Johnson is a clown and is yet a graduate of Oxford and Eton. Britain’s finest mind.

Permabear

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Permabear

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Duffy the Vampire Slayer

server down wrote: »

Yeh. China. Europe. South America.

South America? Are you taking the piss?

server down

Permabear wrote: »

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Because smarter better educated people are going in. Because China has a higher IQ, if you take that seriously. There’s no Pisa for graduates. The Times list is a list of famous universities dominated by Anglo universities.

The US does poorly in PISA because it has lots of very bad schools. Public schools in inner cities are especially awful. Only 4 percent of eighth graders in Detroit's public school system are proficient in math, for example. But on the other hand, you have excellent schools whose graduates go on to Stanford, Harvard, and Princeton. So the average scores (which PISA reports) may be worse, but there are more pronounced extremes in the US as well, on both the low and high ends.

In the US, unlike some other countries, there's a clear concept of "elite universities," which are usually private, skilled at fund-raising, have multi-billion-dollar endowments and excellent facilities, charge tuition (my girlfriend's university charges over $51,000 a year), and attract the top academics in the world. That's why they're the best.

This tells you nothing about how bright the undergraduates are. Maybe grad students are bright though.

You stayed away from the Boris Johnson question. Oxford and Cambridge top these lists so how come Johnson is so dumb - and how come the U.K. so increasingly badly run.

server down

Permabear wrote: »

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Why? Johnson got a 2.1 in classics. A university is a filter so how come he didn’t, you know, fail

Maybe he's great with classics but dumb as a puddle of spilt oil on everything else? I don't think Oxfords reputation is damaged by having Johnston as a Government minister.

Permabear

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demfad

JohnMc1 wrote: »

The outrage over the term Freshmen is ridiculous. This isn't about Gender Equality. Its about a bunch of idiots with way too much time on their hands looking for stuff to be outraged over.

That's not based on reason so by definition is prejudice.
Gender equality in college starts with ticking the box where all genders are equal in college. It continues with the ethos, customs and norms catching up. i.e all the subsequent small changes.
That's reasonable.
Isolating one incident and implying 'PC gone mad' or whatever it is your implying speaks of prejudices you must have brought into your thinking on this.
What are you getting offended about?

jmayo

Permabear wrote: »

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MATHS.
When you are spakin on a Merican forum call it what you want, but around these parts it's MATHS/

Between yer math and yer home skoolin you are turning into a right yank.

server down wrote: »

If the US or the U.K. is producing people with enormous vision I have yet to see it, outside perhaps of technology.

Unless enormous vision means more wars in the Middle East and the clown show that is Brexit.

Boris Johnson is a clown and is yet a graduate of Oxford and Eton. Britain’s finest mind.

Stop using boris johnson as example of a failure or success of an educational establishment.
Trump has a degree of some sort, so does GW Bush.
Money buys you lots of things, including a good education and a degree of some sort.

And why do people assume a good education, and by extension a third level degree means someone is actually smart and in particular savvy in some way be it business, politics or whatever.

Some of the highest achievers in some academic fields are not fit to be let out on their own.
And some of the most successful people in the world can come across like illiterate gobdaws.

Oh and very smart intelligent people often make not so good politicians.
Jimmy Carter was probably one of the intelligent US presidents, especially when compared to some of the morons that followed him, but he wasn't a great president.
Garrett Fitzgerald by all accounts was very smart, but he had major problems running a government.

The US has led the way in terms of technology and part of that is down to it's educational institutions, the money they (the government and wealthy coporations/indviduals) can throw into research and the calibre of people they can attract.
As I said earlier MIT attracts some of the brightest from around the world.

Valmont

server down wrote: »

You stayed away from the Boris Johnson question. Oxford and Cambridge top these lists so how come Johnson is so dumb - and how come the U.K. so increasingly badly run.

I see you've taken logic at the University of Navan...

splinter65

server down wrote: »

Because smarter better educated people are going in. Because China has a higher IQ, if you take that seriously. There’s no Pisa for graduates. The Times list is a list of famous universities dominated by Anglo universities.





This tells you nothing about how bright the undergraduates are. Maybe grad students are bright though.

You stayed away from the Boris Johnson question. Oxford and Cambridge top these lists so how come Johnson is so dumb - and how come the U.K. so increasingly badly run.

The idea that Boris Johnson is “dumb” has just made me snort my hot chocolate down my nose .
He looks “dumb” doesn’t he? But he’s not.

pitifulgod

server down wrote: »

Yeh. China. Europe. South America.

The US does badly in PISA, is losing its technical edge to China, has universities that seem to be on the verge of continuous cultural wars, so why does it have the best universities.

These are popularity or familiarity contests.

From my knowledge on Chinese graduates that I did my masters with. Chinese universities are overall very poor, if you've got the money you send your kids to study in Europe or the US. I would tend to agree that the US houses some of the best universities however education in the US is based on inequity. So I'd prefer European systems overall for that reason.