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PSNI Recruitment 1710 Campaign
Comments
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I apologise for the inconvenience but he has made it clear in the past that he is a bully and that his high stanards only apply to others. Publicly sharing what another boardie has messaged in private about. More or less calling people stupod for asking a question.
I thought we all are here to support eachother so by that definition the only stupid question is the one that isn't asked.0 -
Maxi and Banter. If anything this is a real example of how people on the same team in the job might not see eye to eye.
That aside both of yous are passionate and that shows but don’t stoop to winding each other up or name calling. This forum is monitored and user name asked for in vetting. Be careful how you reflect your character on this.
Yous May be on the same squad someday. The team work starts here.0 -
The link Maxi shared is relevant. Its the PSNI appropriate language handbook that you will be given, and expected to read when you reach GV. As a service thats held so highly responsible for everything we do, there will be times where you need to moderate your language or terminology no matter what your position on it is. Saying that you said something because you dont feel it was innapropriate in your own personal life wont win you the battle.
That said, the two of you need to stop dragging these forums off topic. Whilst mildly entertaining, its not needed. One day you may end up being colleagues. You may not agree, you may not get along, but you will be better off not creating arguments. You may rely on the other one day to save your life...0 -
Total load of BS there. It doesnt matter how many times he has had to draw his batton. It doesnt matter if CS isnt the norm. If any particular officer feels as if their life is in threat, and they have exhausted other means of force, ie communication, then they are more than justified to use other methods!Banterbus28 wrote: »“Use of force” is a last resort. Nine times out of ten you should be fit to deescalte using things that TCI therapeutic crisis intervention techniques and other descaltion tools right down to Body language.
A lot of physical incidents can be avoided by the workers Aitutide. Far more skill in talking a situation down than stricking someone.
All this BIG lad talk is all good but if that’s what your going to resort to then think again.
I do expect to get hurt in the job, I do expect to have to defend myself but as a last resort. There is always somone Bigger and stronger than you out there who could mop the floor with you in a second. I’d choose to talk them down first.
So many times watching “the force Manchester or police interceptors I see officers throw fuel on the fire by the way they approach individuals and guess what it ends in a physical scuffle. And the officers who use rational talking first seem to have the better results.
Having worked with learning disabled people who had a staff to service user ratio of 5:1 I fully understand that body language is everything and physical intervention is a last resort.
In the police you can use pain compliance whilst in care pain compliance can only be used if you feel that your life is on danger.
I have worked with people who if they kicked off one on one you're simply dead.
One night we had 4 support workers and 2 peelers on an individual and they were still getting up and causing injury.
I have plenty of scars from that job, hands in particupwr scratched to bits, which I loved almost a year ago I left which is crazy.
I don’t mean to nit pick but they’re not “learning disabled people” rather they’re people with a learning disability. There is a world of difference between the two. Work provided us with some diversity training and that was one of the big insights for me. A lot of people with a disability don’t want to be defined on the basis of that disability. Rather, they’re people who just happen to have a disability. Language is important, especially when certain people find it disempowering and potentially condescending to the public.
In terms of the use of language in a policing context, you might find this useful.
https://www.psni.police.uk/globalassets/advice--information/our-publications/policies-and-service-procedures/guide_to_appropriate_language__full__2013.pdf
In terms of the use of force, my friend, a constable in the North coast was verbally reprimanded by his Sergeant for using CS spray during a violent incident removing a suspect from a train. The young constable said he could fully justify use of force because he felt a threat to his life. He was told, however, that CS was never regularly used in that district in the past and they had no intentions of starting it now. According to the Sergeant, who said he only had drawn his baton twice in 20 years almost everything can be de-escalated. I’m not sure if I have used that anecdote before but it’s relevent here too in terms of what’s being discussed.
Great insight there. “Only drawn his baton twice in 20years “ That’s a lethal weapon chief comment right there if I ever heard one lol. That’s the way I hope it to be when policing.0 -
Hi Everyone :D.
Been following this thread for a few weeks now and thought I'd join the discussion...
Does anyone know of how much influence the Deloitte managed stages of the recruitment affect our progression? By that; I mean, is our progress only managed by Deloitte at these stages and then passed over to PSNI upon successful completion, or does our progress work in conjunction with the PSNI (i.e. does the Deloitte stage only represent a certain % of our overall application).
Thanks in advance for any input
. 0 -
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spasticator wrote: »Hi Everyone :D.
Been following this thread for a few weeks now and thought I'd join the discussion...
Does anyone know of how much influence the Deloitte managed stages of the recruitment affect our progression? By that; I mean, is our progress only managed by Deloitte at these stages and then passed over to PSNI upon successful completion, or does our progress work in conjunction with the PSNI (i.e. does the Deloitte stage only represent a certain % of our overall application).
Thanks in advance for any input.
Welcome to the group
Once the merit list is handed over to the PSNI Deloitte take no more to do with the recruitment.0 -
spasticator wrote: »Hi Everyone :D.
Been following this thread for a few weeks now and thought I'd join the discussion...
Does anyone know of how much influence the Deloitte managed stages of the recruitment affect our progression? By that; I mean, is our progress only managed by Deloitte at these stages and then passed over to PSNI upon successful completion, or does our progress work in conjunction with the PSNI (i.e. does the Deloitte stage only represent a certain % of our overall application).
Thanks in advance for any input.
Welcome to the group
Once the merit list is handed over to the PSNI Deloitte take no more to do with the recruitment.
Hopefully Deloitte will be preparing their tender for the next campaign 😉😉😉0 -
Wee bit of advice needed.... I suspect that I have broken my toe today. As I have already been given my pca date obviously this isn't ideal! There isn't usually much can be done for a broken toe except strapping it up which I can do myself without medical attention but should I seek advice to have it on record incase I needed to change my date?0
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Total load of BS there. It doesnt matter how many times he has had to draw his batton. It doesnt matter if CS isnt the norm. If any particular officer feels as if their life is in threat, and they have exhausted other means of force, ie communication, then they are more than justified to use other methods!Banterbus28 wrote: »“Use of force” is a last resort. Nine times out of ten you should be fit to deescalte using things that TCI therapeutic crisis intervention techniques and other descaltion tools right down to Body language.
A lot of physical incidents can be avoided by the workers Aitutide. Far more skill in talking a situation down than stricking someone.
All this BIG lad talk is all good but if that’s what your going to resort to then think again.
I do expect to get hurt in the job, I do expect to have to defend myself but as a last resort. There is always somone Bigger and stronger than you out there who could mop the floor with you in a second. I’d choose to talk them down first.
So many times watching “the force Manchester or police interceptors I see officers throw fuel on the fire by the way they approach individuals and guess what it ends in a physical scuffle. And the officers who use rational talking first seem to have the better results.
Having worked with learning disabled people who had a staff to service user ratio of 5:1 I fully understand that body language is everything and physical intervention is a last resort.
In the police you can use pain compliance whilst in care pain compliance can only be used if you feel that your life is on danger.
I have worked with people who if they kicked off one on one you're simply dead.
One night we had 4 support workers and 2 peelers on an individual and they were still getting up and causing injury.
I have plenty of scars from that job, hands in particupwr scratched to bits, which I loved almost a year ago I left which is crazy.
I don’t mean to nit pick but they’re not “learning disabled people” rather they’re people with a learning disability. There is a world of difference between the two. Work provided us with some diversity training and that was one of the big insights for me. A lot of people with a disability don’t want to be defined on the basis of that disability. Rather, they’re people who just happen to have a disability. Language is important, especially when certain people find it disempowering and potentially condescending to the public.
In terms of the use of language in a policing context, you might find this useful.
https://www.psni.police.uk/globalassets/advice--information/our-publications/policies-and-service-procedures/guide_to_appropriate_language__full__2013.pdf
In terms of the use of force, my friend, a constable in the North coast was verbally reprimanded by his Sergeant for using CS spray during a violent incident removing a suspect from a train. The young constable said he could fully justify use of force because he felt a threat to his life. He was told, however, that CS was never regularly used in that district in the past and they had no intentions of starting it now. According to the Sergeant, who said he only had drawn his baton twice in 20 years almost everything can be de-escalated. I’m not sure if I have used that anecdote before but it’s relevent here too in terms of what’s being discussed.
Great insight there. “Only drawn his baton twice in 20years “ That’s a lethal weapon chief comment right there if I ever heard one lol. That’s the way I hope it to be when policing.
Hi MajGreen
Since we're on the topic of use of force.
What's your thoughts about how once qualified, constables are only allowed to use their issued weapon during recertification etc.
Shouldn't police be allowed to go to a range and practice using their weapons as much as they like, (paying for own ammunition) to make sure if the worst should ever happen they are confident and skilled enough to use them?
There are plenty of private ranges throughout the country which are suitable.
Is it just an insurance matter or maybe in case internal parts like firing pin etc get damaged with over use?0 -
If you wish you could buy a private use Glock and practise with that at psni gun club or other gun clubs. For security and other evidential reasons you would never use your issued weapon for such practise.0
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A few rifle clubs will have pistol range days.0
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Banterbus28 wrote: »A few rifle clubs will have pistol range days.
Mine allows pistols every day it's open. But what I'm saying is unless someone is really into their shooting they arnt going to pay £200+ a year for a club membership, £500+ for a glock. £90 for a licence and £30 a time for ammo.
Being recertified may mean you're safe with a pistol, doesn't make you a good/accurate shooter. It is a perishable skill after all.0 -
Banterbus28 wrote: »A few rifle clubs will have pistol range days.
Mine allows pistols every day it's open. But what I'm saying is unless someone is really into their shooting they arnt going to pay £200+ a year for a club membership, £500+ for a glock. £90 for a licence and £30 a time for ammo.
Being recertified may mean you're safe with a pistol, doesn't make you a good/accurate shooter. It is a perishable skill after all.
Absolutely. It's all about rehearsal, make it muscle memory.
I didnt get good at full bore target shooting after a few range days lol was a 5 year process0 -
Total load of BS there. It doesnt matter how many times he has had to draw his batton. It doesnt matter if CS isnt the norm. If any particular officer feels as if their life is in threat, and they have exhausted other means of force, ie communication, then they are more than justified to use other methods!Banterbus28 wrote: »“Use of force” is a last resort. Nine times out of ten you should be fit to deescalte using things that TCI therapeutic crisis intervention techniques and other descaltion tools right down to Body language.
A lot of physical incidents can be avoided by the workers Aitutide. Far more skill in talking a situation down than stricking someone.
All this BIG lad talk is all good but if that’s what your going to resort to then think again.
I do expect to get hurt in the job, I do expect to have to defend myself but as a last resort. There is always somone Bigger and stronger than you out there who could mop the floor with you in a second. I’d choose to talk them down first.
So many times watching “the force Manchester or police interceptors I see officers throw fuel on the fire by the way they approach individuals and guess what it ends in a physical scuffle. And the officers who use rational talking first seem to have the better results.
Having worked with learning disabled people who had a staff to service user ratio of 5:1 I fully understand that body language is everything and physical intervention is a last resort.
In the police you can use pain compliance whilst in care pain compliance can only be used if you feel that your life is on danger.
I have worked with people who if they kicked off one on one you're simply dead.
One night we had 4 support workers and 2 peelers on an individual and they were still getting up and causing injury.
I have plenty of scars from that job, hands in particupwr scratched to bits, which I loved almost a year ago I left which is crazy.
I don’t mean to nit pick but they’re not “learning disabled people” rather they’re people with a learning disability. There is a world of difference between the two. Work provided us with some diversity training and that was one of the big insights for me. A lot of people with a disability don’t want to be defined on the basis of that disability. Rather, they’re people who just happen to have a disability. Language is important, especially when certain people find it disempowering and potentially condescending to the public.
In terms of the use of language in a policing context, you might find this useful.
https://www.psni.police.uk/globalassets/advice--information/our-publications/policies-and-service-procedures/guide_to_appropriate_language__full__2013.pdf
In terms of the use of force, my friend, a constable in the North coast was verbally reprimanded by his Sergeant for using CS spray during a violent incident removing a suspect from a train. The young constable said he could fully justify use of force because he felt a threat to his life. He was told, however, that CS was never regularly used in that district in the past and they had no intentions of starting it now. According to the Sergeant, who said he only had drawn his baton twice in 20 years almost everything can be de-escalated. I’m not sure if I have used that anecdote before but it’s relevent here too in terms of what’s being discussed.
Great insight there. “Only drawn his baton twice in 20years “ That’s a lethal weapon chief comment right there if I ever heard one lol. That’s the way I hope it to be when policing.
Hi MajGreen
Since we're on the topic of use of force.
What's your thoughts about how once qualified, constables are only allowed to use their issued weapon during recertification etc.
Shouldn't police be allowed to go to a range and practice using their weapons as much as they like, (paying for own ammunition) to make sure if the worst should ever happen they are confident and skilled enough to use them?
There are plenty of private ranges throughout the country which are suitable.
Is it just an insurance matter or maybe in case internal parts like firing pin etc get damaged with over use?
Essentially, our ppw's are just that. Personal protection weapons. We do not hold a firearms certificate and therefore to take it out on a range outside of official training would be possession of a firearm without a certificate among other offences. Although it costs a fair whack, if you really wanted to then you could get a certificate, a glock, or any other handgun for that matter, and shoot as much as you like.0 -
Total load of BS there. It doesnt matter how many times he has had to draw his batton. It doesnt matter if CS isnt the norm. If any particular officer feels as if their life is in threat, and they have exhausted other means of force, ie communication, then they are more than justified to use other methods!Banterbus28 wrote: »“Use of force” is a last resort. Nine times out of ten you should be fit to deescalte using things that TCI therapeutic crisis intervention techniques and other descaltion tools right down to Body language.
A lot of physical incidents can be avoided by the workers Aitutide. Far more skill in talking a situation down than stricking someone.
All this BIG lad talk is all good but if that’s what your going to resort to then think again.
I do expect to get hurt in the job, I do expect to have to defend myself but as a last resort. There is always somone Bigger and stronger than you out there who could mop the floor with you in a second. I’d choose to talk them down first.
So many times watching “the force Manchester or police interceptors I see officers throw fuel on the fire by the way they approach individuals and guess what it ends in a physical scuffle. And the officers who use rational talking first seem to have the better results.
Having worked with learning disabled people who had a staff to service user ratio of 5:1 I fully understand that body language is everything and physical intervention is a last resort.
In the police you can use pain compliance whilst in care pain compliance can only be used if you feel that your life is on danger.
I have worked with people who if they kicked off one on one you're simply dead.
One night we had 4 support workers and 2 peelers on an individual and they were still getting up and causing injury.
I have plenty of scars from that job, hands in particupwr scratched to bits, which I loved almost a year ago I left which is crazy.
I don’t mean to nit pick but they’re not “learning disabled people” rather they’re people with a learning disability. There is a world of difference between the two. Work provided us with some diversity training and that was one of the big insights for me. A lot of people with a disability don’t want to be defined on the basis of that disability. Rather, they’re people who just happen to have a disability. Language is important, especially when certain people find it disempowering and potentially condescending to the public.
In terms of the use of language in a policing context, you might find this useful.
https://www.psni.police.uk/globalassets/advice--information/our-publications/policies-and-service-procedures/guide_to_appropriate_language__full__2013.pdf
In terms of the use of force, my friend, a constable in the North coast was verbally reprimanded by his Sergeant for using CS spray during a violent incident removing a suspect from a train. The young constable said he could fully justify use of force because he felt a threat to his life. He was told, however, that CS was never regularly used in that district in the past and they had no intentions of starting it now. According to the Sergeant, who said he only had drawn his baton twice in 20 years almost everything can be de-escalated. I’m not sure if I have used that anecdote before but it’s relevent here too in terms of what’s being discussed.
Great insight there. “Only drawn his baton twice in 20years “ That’s a lethal weapon chief comment right there if I ever heard one lol. That’s the way I hope it to be when policing.
Hi MajGreen
Since we're on the topic of use of force.
What's your thoughts about how once qualified, constables are only allowed to use their issued weapon during recertification etc.
Shouldn't police be allowed to go to a range and practice using their weapons as much as they like, (paying for own ammunition) to make sure if the worst should ever happen they are confident and skilled enough to use them?
There are plenty of private ranges throughout the country which are suitable.
Is it just an insurance matter or maybe in case internal parts like firing pin etc get damaged with over use?
Essentially, our ppw's are just that. Personal protection weapons. We do not hold a firearms certificate and therefore to take it out on a range outside of official training would be possession of a firearm without a certificate among other offences. Although it costs a fair whack, if you really wanted to then you could get a certificate, a glock, or any other handgun for that matter, and shoot as much as you like.
I think Nik9 real question is, unless you are confident in drawing said PPW in a life or death situation can you be confident that you will be able to do what is necessary?
There is a reason my every golf pro trains every day.0 -
Banterbus28 wrote: »A few rifle clubs will have pistol range days.
Mine allows pistols every day it's open. But what I'm saying is unless someone is really into their shooting they arnt going to pay £200+ a year for a club membership, £500+ for a glock. £90 for a licence and £30 a time for ammo.
Being recertified may mean you're safe with a pistol, doesn't make you a good/accurate shooter. It is a perishable skill after all.
In terms of firearm training you'd usually end up on the range every 6-12 months depending on your district. The standard is very high, especially for safety and handling. If someone isn't accurate enough or unsafe then they are given one more shoot. If you mess that up you're returned to district with a date with your district commander to try and plead your case.0 -
More of a self confidence thing, in my mind.0
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Banterbus28 wrote: »A few rifle clubs will have pistol range days.
Mine allows pistols every day it's open. But what I'm saying is unless someone is really into their shooting they arnt going to pay £200+ a year for a club membership, £500+ for a glock. £90 for a licence and £30 a time for ammo.
Being recertified may mean you're safe with a pistol, doesn't make you a good/accurate shooter. It is a perishable skill after all.
In terms of firearm training you'd usually end up on the range every 6-12 months depending on your district. The standard is very high, especially for safety and handling. If someone isn't accurate enough or unsafe then they are given one more shoot. If you mess that up you're returned to district with a date with your district commander to try and plead your case.
Is there a pressure shoot?
I.e. you must draw weapon and put x amount of rounds on target within an acceptable grouping?0 -
Banterbus28 wrote: »
Total load of BS there. It doesnt matter how many times he has had to draw his batton. It doesnt matter if CS isnt the norm. If any particular officer feels as if their life is in threat, and they have exhausted other means of force, ie communication, then they are more than justified to use other methods!Banterbus28 wrote: »“Use of force” is a last resort. Nine times out of ten you should be fit to deescalte using things that TCI therapeutic crisis intervention techniques and other descaltion tools right down to Body language.
A lot of physical incidents can be avoided by the workers Aitutide. Far more skill in talking a situation down than stricking someone.
All this BIG lad talk is all good but if that’s what your going to resort to then think again.
I do expect to get hurt in the job, I do expect to have to defend myself but as a last resort. There is always somone Bigger and stronger than you out there who could mop the floor with you in a second. I’d choose to talk them down first.
So many times watching “the force Manchester or police interceptors I see officers throw fuel on the fire by the way they approach individuals and guess what it ends in a physical scuffle. And the officers who use rational talking first seem to have the better results.
Having worked with learning disabled people who had a staff to service user ratio of 5:1 I fully understand that body language is everything and physical intervention is a last resort.
In the police you can use pain compliance whilst in care pain compliance can only be used if you feel that your life is on danger.
I have worked with people who if they kicked off one on one you're simply dead.
One night we had 4 support workers and 2 peelers on an individual and they were still getting up and causing injury.
I have plenty of scars from that job, hands in particupwr scratched to bits, which I loved almost a year ago I left which is crazy.
I don’t mean to nit pick but they’re not “learning disabled people” rather they’re people with a learning disability. There is a world of difference between the two. Work provided us with some diversity training and that was one of the big insights for me. A lot of people with a disability don’t want to be defined on the basis of that disability. Rather, they’re people who just happen to have a disability. Language is important, especially when certain people find it disempowering and potentially condescending to the public.
In terms of the use of language in a policing context, you might find this useful.
https://www.psni.police.uk/globalassets/advice--information/our-publications/policies-and-service-procedures/guide_to_appropriate_language__full__2013.pdf
In terms of the use of force, my friend, a constable in the North coast was verbally reprimanded by his Sergeant for using CS spray during a violent incident removing a suspect from a train. The young constable said he could fully justify use of force because he felt a threat to his life. He was told, however, that CS was never regularly used in that district in the past and they had no intentions of starting it now. According to the Sergeant, who said he only had drawn his baton twice in 20 years almost everything can be de-escalated. I’m not sure if I have used that anecdote before but it’s relevent here too in terms of what’s being discussed.
Great insight there. “Only drawn his baton twice in 20years “ That’s a lethal weapon chief comment right there if I ever heard one lol. That’s the way I hope it to be when policing.
Hi MajGreen
Since we're on the topic of use of force.
What's your thoughts about how once qualified, constables are only allowed to use their issued weapon during recertification etc.
Shouldn't police be allowed to go to a range and practice using their weapons as much as they like, (paying for own ammunition) to make sure if the worst should ever happen they are confident and skilled enough to use them?
There are plenty of private ranges throughout the country which are suitable.
Is it just an insurance matter or maybe in case internal parts like firing pin etc get damaged with over use?
Essentially, our ppw's are just that. Personal protection weapons. We do not hold a firearms certificate and therefore to take it out on a range outside of official training would be possession of a firearm without a certificate among other offences. Although it costs a fair whack, if you really wanted to then you could get a certificate, a glock, or any other handgun for that matter, and shoot as much as you like.
I think Nik9 real question is, unless you are confident in drawing said PPW in a life or death situation can you be confident that you will be able to do what is necessary?
There is a reason my every golf pro trains every day.
If you ever find yourself in that position then naturally you're going to get the fight or flight reaction. On duty, with a colleague, ballistic armour etc then you're going to be more likely to take the fight option. Frankly, if it's a point blank decision between you or them, then everyone will choose fight. The training is of such a high standard that by the time you even leave GV, its all muscle memory. Drawing, shooting, cover and move, tactical reloads, stoppage drills. It's all second nature.0 -
Banterbus28 wrote: »Banterbus28 wrote: »A few rifle clubs will have pistol range days.
Mine allows pistols every day it's open. But what I'm saying is unless someone is really into their shooting they arnt going to pay £200+ a year for a club membership, £500+ for a glock. £90 for a licence and £30 a time for ammo.
Being recertified may mean you're safe with a pistol, doesn't make you a good/accurate shooter. It is a perishable skill after all.
In terms of firearm training you'd usually end up on the range every 6-12 months depending on your district. The standard is very high, especially for safety and handling. If someone isn't accurate enough or unsafe then they are given one more shoot. If you mess that up you're returned to district with a date with your district commander to try and plead your case.
Is there a pressure shoot?
I.e. you must draw weapon and put x amount of rounds on target within an acceptable grouping?
Yes, both in GV and regular re-qualification. My initial G36 training included a 3 second 180 degree turn, 2 to the chest and 1 to the head.0 -
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Banterbus28 wrote: »
Total load of BS there. It doesnt matter how many times he has had to draw his batton. It doesnt matter if CS isnt the norm. If any particular officer feels as if their life is in threat, and they have exhausted other means of force, ie communication, then they are more than justified to use other methods!Banterbus28 wrote: »“Use of force” is a last resort. Nine times out of ten you should be fit to deescalte using things that TCI therapeutic crisis intervention techniques and other descaltion tools right down to Body language.
A lot of physical incidents can be avoided by the workers Aitutide. Far more skill in talking a situation down than stricking someone.
All this BIG lad talk is all good but if that’s what your going to resort to then think again.
I do expect to get hurt in the job, I do expect to have to defend myself but as a last resort. There is always somone Bigger and stronger than you out there who could mop the floor with you in a second. I’d choose to talk them down first.
So many times watching “the force Manchester or police interceptors I see officers throw fuel on the fire by the way they approach individuals and guess what it ends in a physical scuffle. And the officers who use rational talking first seem to have the better results.
Having worked with learning disabled people who had a staff to service user ratio of 5:1 I fully understand that body language is everything and physical intervention is a last resort.
In the police you can use pain compliance whilst in care pain compliance can only be used if you feel that your life is on danger.
I have worked with people who if they kicked off one on one you're simply dead.
One night we had 4 support workers and 2 peelers on an individual and they were still getting up and causing injury.
I have plenty of scars from that job, hands in particupwr scratched to bits, which I loved almost a year ago I left which is crazy.
I don’t mean to nit pick but they’re not “learning disabled people” rather they’re people with a learning disability. There is a world of difference between the two. Work provided us with some diversity training and that was one of the big insights for me. A lot of people with a disability don’t want to be defined on the basis of that disability. Rather, they’re people who just happen to have a disability. Language is important, especially when certain people find it disempowering and potentially condescending to the public.
In terms of the use of language in a policing context, you might find this useful.
https://www.psni.police.uk/globalassets/advice--information/our-publications/policies-and-service-procedures/guide_to_appropriate_language__full__2013.pdf
In terms of the use of force, my friend, a constable in the North coast was verbally reprimanded by his Sergeant for using CS spray during a violent incident removing a suspect from a train. The young constable said he could fully justify use of force because he felt a threat to his life. He was told, however, that CS was never regularly used in that district in the past and they had no intentions of starting it now. According to the Sergeant, who said he only had drawn his baton twice in 20 years almost everything can be de-escalated. I’m not sure if I have used that anecdote before but it’s relevent here too in terms of what’s being discussed.
Great insight there. “Only drawn his baton twice in 20years “ That’s a lethal weapon chief comment right there if I ever heard one lol. That’s the way I hope it to be when policing.
Hi MajGreen
Since we're on the topic of use of force.
What's your thoughts about how once qualified, constables are only allowed to use their issued weapon during recertification etc.
Shouldn't police be allowed to go to a range and practice using their weapons as much as they like, (paying for own ammunition) to make sure if the worst should ever happen they are confident and skilled enough to use them?
There are plenty of private ranges throughout the country which are suitable.
Is it just an insurance matter or maybe in case internal parts like firing pin etc get damaged with over use?
Essentially, our ppw's are just that. Personal protection weapons. We do not hold a firearms certificate and therefore to take it out on a range outside of official training would be possession of a firearm without a certificate among other offences. Although it costs a fair whack, if you really wanted to then you could get a certificate, a glock, or any other handgun for that matter, and shoot as much as you like.
I think Nik9 real question is, unless you are confident in drawing said PPW in a life or death situation can you be confident that you will be able to do what is necessary?
There is a reason my every golf pro trains every day.
If you ever find yourself in that position then naturally you're going to get the fight or flight reaction. On duty, with a colleague, ballistic armour etc then you're going to be more likely to take the fight option. Frankly, if it's a point blank decision between you or them, then everyone will choose fight. The training is of such a high standard that by the time you even leave GV, its all muscle memory. Drawing, shooting, cover and move, tactical reloads, stoppage drills. It's all second nature.
Make "them" think they have bit of a bit more than they can chew is of course the safest option.
There's a reason why every military on earths ambush drill is turn and fight.0 -
Banterbus28 wrote: »Banterbus28 wrote: »A few rifle clubs will have pistol range days.
Mine allows pistols every day it's open. But what I'm saying is unless someone is really into their shooting they arnt going to pay £200+ a year for a club membership, £500+ for a glock. £90 for a licence and £30 a time for ammo.
Being recertified may mean you're safe with a pistol, doesn't make you a good/accurate shooter. It is a perishable skill after all.
In terms of firearm training you'd usually end up on the range every 6-12 months depending on your district. The standard is very high, especially for safety and handling. If someone isn't accurate enough or unsafe then they are given one more shoot. If you mess that up you're returned to district with a date with your district commander to try and plead your case.
Is there a pressure shoot?
I.e. you must draw weapon and put x amount of rounds on target within an acceptable grouping?
Yes, both in GV and regular re-qualification. My initial G36 training included a 3 second 180 degree turn, 2 to the chest and 1 to the head.
Similar to a CQM shoot then0 -
Banterbus28 wrote: »Banterbus28 wrote: »
Total load of BS there. It doesnt matter how many times he has had to draw his batton. It doesnt matter if CS isnt the norm. If any particular officer feels as if their life is in threat, and they have exhausted other means of force, ie communication, then they are more than justified to use other methods!Banterbus28 wrote: »“Use of force” is a last resort. Nine times out of ten you should be fit to deescalte using things that TCI therapeutic crisis intervention techniques and other descaltion tools right down to Body language.
A lot of physical incidents can be avoided by the workers Aitutide. Far more skill in talking a situation down than stricking someone.
All this BIG lad talk is all good but if that’s what your going to resort to then think again.
I do expect to get hurt in the job, I do expect to have to defend myself but as a last resort. There is always somone Bigger and stronger than you out there who could mop the floor with you in a second. I’d choose to talk them down first.
So many times watching “the force Manchester or police interceptors I see officers throw fuel on the fire by the way they approach individuals and guess what it ends in a physical scuffle. And the officers who use rational talking first seem to have the better results.
Having worked with learning disabled people who had a staff to service user ratio of 5:1 I fully understand that body language is everything and physical intervention is a last resort.
In the police you can use pain compliance whilst in care pain compliance can only be used if you feel that your life is on danger.
I have worked with people who if they kicked off one on one you're simply dead.
One night we had 4 support workers and 2 peelers on an individual and they were still getting up and causing injury.
I have plenty of scars from that job, hands in particupwr scratched to bits, which I loved almost a year ago I left which is crazy.
I don’t mean to nit pick but they’re not “learning disabled people” rather they’re people with a learning disability. There is a world of difference between the two. Work provided us with some diversity training and that was one of the big insights for me. A lot of people with a disability don’t want to be defined on the basis of that disability. Rather, they’re people who just happen to have a disability. Language is important, especially when certain people find it disempowering and potentially condescending to the public.
In terms of the use of language in a policing context, you might find this useful.
https://www.psni.police.uk/globalassets/advice--information/our-publications/policies-and-service-procedures/guide_to_appropriate_language__full__2013.pdf
In terms of the use of force, my friend, a constable in the North coast was verbally reprimanded by his Sergeant for using CS spray during a violent incident removing a suspect from a train. The young constable said he could fully justify use of force because he felt a threat to his life. He was told, however, that CS was never regularly used in that district in the past and they had no intentions of starting it now. According to the Sergeant, who said he only had drawn his baton twice in 20 years almost everything can be de-escalated. I’m not sure if I have used that anecdote before but it’s relevent here too in terms of what’s being discussed.
Great insight there. “Only drawn his baton twice in 20years “ That’s a lethal weapon chief comment right there if I ever heard one lol. That’s the way I hope it to be when policing.
Hi MajGreen
Since we're on the topic of use of force.
What's your thoughts about how once qualified, constables are only allowed to use their issued weapon during recertification etc.
Shouldn't police be allowed to go to a range and practice using their weapons as much as they like, (paying for own ammunition) to make sure if the worst should ever happen they are confident and skilled enough to use them?
There are plenty of private ranges throughout the country which are suitable.
Is it just an insurance matter or maybe in case internal parts like firing pin etc get damaged with over use?
Essentially, our ppw's are just that. Personal protection weapons. We do not hold a firearms certificate and therefore to take it out on a range outside of official training would be possession of a firearm without a certificate among other offences. Although it costs a fair whack, if you really wanted to then you could get a certificate, a glock, or any other handgun for that matter, and shoot as much as you like.
I think Nik9 real question is, unless you are confident in drawing said PPW in a life or death situation can you be confident that you will be able to do what is necessary?
There is a reason my every golf pro trains every day.
If you ever find yourself in that position then naturally you're going to get the fight or flight reaction. On duty, with a colleague, ballistic armour etc then you're going to be more likely to take the fight option. Frankly, if it's a point blank decision between you or them, then everyone will choose fight. The training is of such a high standard that by the time you even leave GV, its all muscle memory. Drawing, shooting, cover and move, tactical reloads, stoppage drills. It's all second nature.
Make "them" think they have bit of a bit more than they can chew is of course the safest option.
There's a reason why every military on earths ambush drill is turn and fight.
Equally, there is no shame in turning heels and running. Everyone is different. If the situation dictates, then best to get yourself out in one piece0 -
Banterbus28 wrote: »Banterbus28 wrote: »
Total load of BS there. It doesnt matter how many times he has had to draw his batton. It doesnt matter if CS isnt the norm. If any particular officer feels as if their life is in threat, and they have exhausted other means of force, ie communication, then they are more than justified to use other methods!Banterbus28 wrote: »“Use of force” is a last resort. Nine times out of ten you should be fit to deescalte using things that TCI therapeutic crisis intervention techniques and other descaltion tools right down to Body language.
A lot of physical incidents can be avoided by the workers Aitutide. Far more skill in talking a situation down than stricking someone.
All this BIG lad talk is all good but if that’s what your going to resort to then think again.
I do expect to get hurt in the job, I do expect to have to defend myself but as a last resort. There is always somone Bigger and stronger than you out there who could mop the floor with you in a second. I’d choose to talk them down first.
So many times watching “the force Manchester or police interceptors I see officers throw fuel on the fire by the way they approach individuals and guess what it ends in a physical scuffle. And the officers who use rational talking first seem to have the better results.
Having worked with learning disabled people who had a staff to service user ratio of 5:1 I fully understand that body language is everything and physical intervention is a last resort.
In the police you can use pain compliance whilst in care pain compliance can only be used if you feel that your life is on danger.
I have worked with people who if they kicked off one on one you're simply dead.
One night we had 4 support workers and 2 peelers on an individual and they were still getting up and causing injury.
I have plenty of scars from that job, hands in particupwr scratched to bits, which I loved almost a year ago I left which is crazy.
I don’t mean to nit pick but they’re not “learning disabled people” rather they’re people with a learning disability. There is a world of difference between the two. Work provided us with some diversity training and that was one of the big insights for me. A lot of people with a disability don’t want to be defined on the basis of that disability. Rather, they’re people who just happen to have a disability. Language is important, especially when certain people find it disempowering and potentially condescending to the public.
In terms of the use of language in a policing context, you might find this useful.
https://www.psni.police.uk/globalassets/advice--information/our-publications/policies-and-service-procedures/guide_to_appropriate_language__full__2013.pdf
In terms of the use of force, my friend, a constable in the North coast was verbally reprimanded by his Sergeant for using CS spray during a violent incident removing a suspect from a train. The young constable said he could fully justify use of force because he felt a threat to his life. He was told, however, that CS was never regularly used in that district in the past and they had no intentions of starting it now. According to the Sergeant, who said he only had drawn his baton twice in 20 years almost everything can be de-escalated. I’m not sure if I have used that anecdote before but it’s relevent here too in terms of what’s being discussed.
Great insight there. “Only drawn his baton twice in 20years “ That’s a lethal weapon chief comment right there if I ever heard one lol. That’s the way I hope it to be when policing.
Hi MajGreen
Since we're on the topic of use of force.
What's your thoughts about how once qualified, constables are only allowed to use their issued weapon during recertification etc.
Shouldn't police be allowed to go to a range and practice using their weapons as much as they like, (paying for own ammunition) to make sure if the worst should ever happen they are confident and skilled enough to use them?
There are plenty of private ranges throughout the country which are suitable.
Is it just an insurance matter or maybe in case internal parts like firing pin etc get damaged with over use?
Essentially, our ppw's are just that. Personal protection weapons. We do not hold a firearms certificate and therefore to take it out on a range outside of official training would be possession of a firearm without a certificate among other offences. Although it costs a fair whack, if you really wanted to then you could get a certificate, a glock, or any other handgun for that matter, and shoot as much as you like.
I think Nik9 real question is, unless you are confident in drawing said PPW in a life or death situation can you be confident that you will be able to do what is necessary?
There is a reason my every golf pro trains every day.
If you ever find yourself in that position then naturally you're going to get the fight or flight reaction. On duty, with a colleague, ballistic armour etc then you're going to be more likely to take the fight option. Frankly, if it's a point blank decision between you or them, then everyone will choose fight. The training is of such a high standard that by the time you even leave GV, its all muscle memory. Drawing, shooting, cover and move, tactical reloads, stoppage drills. It's all second nature.
Make "them" think they have bit of a bit more than they can chew is of course the safest option.
There's a reason why every military on earths ambush drill is turn and fight.
Equally, there is no shame in turning heels and running. Everyone is different. If the situation dictates, then best to get yourself out in one piece
Of course you have a duty to get home to loved ones.0 -
Wee bit of advice needed.... I suspect that I have broken my toe today. As I have already been given my pca date obviously this isn't ideal! There isn't usually much can be done for a broken toe except strapping it up which I can do myself without medical attention but should I seek advice to have it on record incase I needed to change my date?
Ouch broken toe... That's a painful one..rest as much as possible..I put ice on mine after I broke it..seems to help a little0 -
Wee bit of advice needed.... I suspect that I have broken my toe today. As I have already been given my pca date obviously this isn't ideal! There isn't usually much can be done for a broken toe except strapping it up which I can do myself without medical attention but should I seek advice to have it on record incase I needed to change my date?
Never had a broken toe before but imagine it to be very painful. My first thought would be try and reschedule the PCA as far away as possible.
Not sure how your pain threshold is but if I had to either attempt to complete PCA or withdraw I would be popping a few pain killers, going with the adrenaline pumping and getting my arse around that course lol0 -
If you can't get the date changed I'd advise getting a compression sock. And then either amazon or you local vets and buy a roll of "vetwrap" its usually cheap enough I keep loads of rolls in my dog firstaid kit and it's great stuff.
The normal plaster style tape is terrible and comes off so quick. So I'd put the compression sock on and wrap it tight with vet wrap and it shouldn't move at all during PCA.
Worst bit will be the wall when you use your toes on the ledge to climb.0 -
This is one I always buy...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B000F9ZVN2/ref=mp_s_a_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1523126226&sr=8-11&keywords=vet+wrap0 -
Wee bit of advice needed.... I suspect that I have broken my toe today. As I have already been given my pca date obviously this isn't ideal! There isn't usually much can be done for a broken toe except strapping it up which I can do myself without medical attention but should I seek advice to have it on record incase I needed to change my date?
I would look into changing your PCA. I couldn't even put a shoe on when I broke my wee toe! Took a while to heal.
If they can't give you a another date - then painkillers, ice and tape it up.
Hope you have a speedier recovery!0 -
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If you canny be arsed going to A&E you can self refer for an x-ray. Also out of hours GP is a god send. Get you sone good pain killers and anti-inflammatories to help with the pain0
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