Irish Rail September Timetable Changes

thomasj

Tonight's DART cancellations

https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/1045727846235353088?s=09

HereinBray

Decuc500 wrote: »

Also I've noticed in evening rush hour four 8 carriage trains in a row serving the Southside from around 5 to 5:45 while most going between the two destinations on the Northside are 6 carriages at most.

Can these long trains going to Bray every 10 minutes in the evening be swapped to the Northside rush hour or can they change round sets during the day? Does changing around sets for evening peak affect morning rush hour?

I travel from GCD from Bray each evening between 515 and 6ish and I haven't managed to see one of these 8 carriage trains. The only 8 I've seen in the last while is the 6ish pm train ex Bray.
The morning (short)trains from Greystones are jammed by the time they get to Bray and the Bray darts are packed by Dalkey - so I don't think it's all sunshine and roses for those going South to North either.

They just don't have enough stock to manage this 10 minute train scenario.

pm1977x

ixoy wrote: »

Wow, looking at that press release are they really that unaware or just being purposefully ignorant :


Seriously?! I haven't met a single DART happy with the new timetable and many very annoyed by it.

I'm very happy, initial teething problems aside it's been great for me. But I think I'm lucky when and where I board and that I have a bit of flexibility that I can wait for the 08.30 and be guaranteed a seat and avoid the 08.20 that can be a bit busier. Likewise, traveling from Tara St Southbound after 6pm is a joy, plenty of seats.


Perhaps the misery should be shared out a bit more evenly, but not sure there's all that many spare carriages on the other side, don't see too many 8 carriage sets in the morning, mostly 4s or 6s at most.



What I do see every single day is many 'well-heeled' fare dodgers (of all ages, but mostly professionals, 30-60) breezing in/out the side gate at Glenageary with not a ticket or Leap card in sight. Multiply this tiny snapshot out over a year and include the rest of the fare dodgers across the network and you'd soon have some shiny new carriages bought and paid for.

Brian CivilEng

pm1977x wrote: »

What I do see every single day is many 'well-heeled' fare dodgers (of all ages, but mostly professionals, 30-60) breezing in/out the side gate at Glenageary with not a ticket or Leap card in sight. Multiply this tiny snapshot out over a year and include the rest of the fare dodgers across the network and you'd soon have some shiny new carriages bought and paid for.

I do that every time I get a peak hour bus. I have an annual ticket. Why queue to tag off when it doesnt matter. Fare dodging is less of a problem than its made out to be.

ixoy

pm1977x wrote: »

I'm very happy, initial teething problems aside it's been great for me. But I think I'm lucky when and where I board and that I have a bit of flexibility that I can wait for the 08.30 and be guaranteed a seat and avoid the 08.20 that can be a bit busier. Likewise, traveling from Tara St Southbound after 6pm is a joy, plenty of seats.

So that comes in to town at 9 - equivalent northside trains coming in for the same time seem to still be jammed and sometimes filling up at the second station.

By the end of your journey, are people unable to get on at any station frequently?

That's the nub of the issue really - it's not about seats or the like , it's about being so packed people are fainting and at some stations have been unable to get on multiple trains in a row.

Perhaps the misery should be shared out a bit more evenly, but not sure there's all that many spare carriages on the other side, don't see too many 8 carriage sets in the morning, mostly 4s or 6s at most.

Is it just fewer people then coming into the city centre from the southside? If the trains are somehow evenly distributed then something's changed somewhere and it's hardly just the commuter trains - I never really used them when I lived in Portmarnock.

Higher frequency but lower capacity would, you think, balance out the same if done correctly.

punisher5112

abitofacomedian wrote: »

I do that every time I get a peak hour bus. I have an annual ticket. Why queue to tag off when it doesnt matter. Fare dodging is less of a problem than its made out to be.

You don't tag off on a bus so what are you on about.

If you don't scan at least getting on then the service provider doesn't know you travelled so then multiply this and you will find they believe there is less need as your journey didn't count.

Kh1993

4 weeks of this sh*t at the moment. Capacity isnt there and won’t be for years at most. Cut the losses and go back to the old timetable.

Not surprising either that a lot of the people (mods included) who kept telling commuters to wait days/weeks for it to bed in, and telling us that it was commuters faults for not adapting, have disappeared from the thread. Commuters for months told people this wouldn’t work. The only people who did had their collective heads in the sand in the hope this might attract imaginary customers over the needs of the existing ones. I can only conclude that (1) they don’t use the DART or (2) that they didn’t do their homework on this project.

Brian CivilEng

punisher5112 wrote: »

You don't tag off on a bus so what are you on about.

If you don't scan at least getting on then the service provider doesn't know you travelled so then multiply this and you will find they believe there is less need as your journey didn't count.

Sorry, I've been writing so much about Bus Connects recently, "bus" was in my head as the most logical thing to follow the words "peak hour". Meant to write "peak hour dart".

thomasj

https://twitter.com/Paulawogan/status/1046012450259324930?s=19

Sums up perfectly the current state of affairs.

ThunbergsAreGo

thomasj wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Paulawogan/status/1046012450259324930?s=19

Sums up perfectly the current state of affairs.

Yeah it's not feasible to go to South Dublin from North or West Dublin on the train at the weekend with children.


It's just much easier to drive

CatInABox

Kh1993 wrote: »

4 weeks of this sh*t at the moment. Capacity isnt there and won’t be for years at most. Cut the losses and go back to the old timetable.

Not surprising either that a lot of the people (mods included) who kept telling commuters to wait days/weeks for it to bed in, and telling us that it was commuters faults for not adapting, have disappeared from the thread. Commuters for months told people this wouldn’t work. The only people who did had their collective heads in the sand in the hope this might attract imaginary customers over the needs of the existing ones. I can only conclude that (1) they don’t use the DART or (2) that they didn’t do their homework on this project.

The 10 minute Dart schedule has the potential to revolutionise public transport along the Dart line, that's something I still believe, and yes, that's even at the expense of slightly longer journey times for most users.

That said, it's not working right now. They need more capacity, they need to sort out the technical problem with the trains, and they need to sort out the "choo choo flu" problem with the drivers. Until they sort those out, I'd be in favour of reverting to the older schedule in parts.

Sam Russell

Could they buy second hand trains from anywhere? I realise that they would need to re-bogey them, but that cannot be too big a deal - they must have kept the bogies from the load of carriages they scrapped.

Klonker

CatInABox wrote: »

The 10 minute Dart schedule has the potential to revolutionise public transport along the Dart line, that's something I still believe, and yes, that's even at the expense of slightly longer journey times for most users.

That said, it's not working right now. They need more capacity, they need to sort out the technical problem with the trains, and they need to sort out the "choo choo flu" problem with the drivers. Until they sort those out, I'd be in favour of reverting to the older schedule in parts.

Yeah the theory of the 10min Darts is great for off peak times but to do it at the expense of peak times is crazy, makes no sense other then to say we have 10min Darts.

Whats even crazier again is starting this new timetable when you haven't got the resource, staff and assets. Like why did it have to happen now and not in 6 months time or whenever they will have resources. Same thing happened with cross city Luas.

L1011

Sam Russell wrote: »

Could they buy second hand trains from anywhere? I realise that they would need to re-bogey them, but that cannot be too big a deal - they must have kept the bogies from the load of carriages they scrapped.

Chances they kepy anything are slim to nil

CatInABox

Klonker wrote: »

Yeah the theory of the 10min Darts is great for off peak times but to do it at the expense of peak times is crazy, makes no sense other then to say we have 10min Darts.

Whats even crazier again is starting this new timetable when you haven't got the resource, staff and assets. Like why did it have to happen now and not in 6 months time or whenever they will have resources. Same thing happened with cross city Luas.

So long as they upgrade the peak capacity and reliability, then it'll work. They have neither at the moment. If every Dart was either 6 or 8 carriages, and it was bang on time all the time, then these problems wouldn't have lasted for more than a day or two as people got used to the new schedule. These 4 carriage trains are killing it at the moment.

The ten minute schedule is pretty vital for BusConnects, as a number of bus routes will now interchange with the Dart. That only works with the ten minute schedule.

Infini

Bus Connects isnt exactly getting a good reception right now either. Realistically the whole situation is ultimately down to politicians not investing and this is the result when half asses solutions are proposed. Reverting is one option right now but wether they will is another.

Sam Russell

To get the ten minute Dart to work it needs to be able to run 4 coach sets for most of the off peak time as most off peak services are less than half full.

To enable that, it must be able to add and subtract sets as required, but that appears to be against policy.

'Choo-choo flu' appears to be a definite problem that needs to be addressed.

Does IR stand for Irish Rail or is it Industrial Relations? Certainly IR has had a long term problem with IR.

Working class heroes

Sam Russell wrote: »

To get the ten minute Dart to work it needs to be able to run 4 coach sets for most of the off peak time as most off peak services are less than half full.

To enable that, it must be able to add and subtract sets as required, but that appears to be against policy.

'Choo-choo flu' appears to be a definite problem that needs to be addressed.

Does IR stand for Irish Rail or is it Industrial Relations? Certainly IR has had a long term problem with IR.

Can you elaborate on your “ choo choo flu” comment.

Are you saying staff are going sick as some form
of unofficial protest?

Sam Russell

Working class heroes wrote: »

Can you elaborate on your “ choo choo flu” comment.

Are you saying staff are going sick as some form
of unofficial protest?

No, I am saying there are many examples of trains going slow, not clearing from Bray platform to allow the following train in on time, trains running late throughout the Dart network.

Staff are not going sick as far as I know, but the system is suffering from something. Trains I have been on have slowed between stations despite there being no train ahead for 15 mins. I just get the impression that all is not well in the State of IR.

Working class heroes

Sam Russell wrote: »

No, I am saying there are many examples of trains going slow, not clearing from Bray platform to allow the following train in on time, trains running late throughout the Dart network.

Staff are not going sick as far as I know, but the system is suffering from something. Trains I have been on have slowed between stations despite there being no train ahead for 15 mins. I just get the impression that all is not well in the State of IR.

Ok. You may have a point there.
Why not go with that instead of insinuating something else. You might give them ideas:)

Sam Russell

Working class heroes wrote: »

Ok. You may have a point there.
Why not go with that instead of insinuating something else. You might give them ideas:)

I just have the impression all is not well, and also that there are not enough trains to run the current timetable - partly because the service has been slowed down.

end of the road

CatInABox wrote: »

The 10 minute Dart schedule has the potential to revolutionise public transport along the Dart line, that's something I still believe, and yes, that's even at the expense of slightly longer journey times for most users.

That said, it's not working right now. They need more capacity, they need to sort out the technical problem with the trains, and they need to sort out the "choo choo flu" problem with the drivers. Until they sort those out, I'd be in favour of reverting to the older schedule in parts.

what "choo choo flu problem" with the drivers. there is none from what i can see otherwise there would be a lot of cancelations and disruptions. there is only a small few cancelations and i expect that's down to the actual shortage of drivers which should be solved soon hopefully once the new ones are trained.

Sam Russell wrote: »

Could they buy second hand trains from anywhere? I realise that they would need to re-bogey them, but that cannot be too big a deal - they must have kept the bogies from the load of carriages they scrapped.

i doubt they did keep them. there is unlikely to have been any use for them. they could probably get some stuff from europe if there are any lines using the same electrical system as ourselves but it would probably be more cost effective to buy new.

Sam Russell wrote: »

No, I am saying there are many examples of trains going slow, not clearing from Bray platform to allow the following train in on time, trains running late throughout the Dart network.

Staff are not going sick as far as I know, but the system is suffering from something. Trains I have been on have slowed between stations despite there being no train ahead for 15 mins. I just get the impression that all is not well in the State of IR.

there could be many reasons for those.

Jamie2k9

Sam Russell wrote: »

I just have the impression all is not well, and also that there are not enough trains to run the current timetable - partly because the service has been slowed down.

The day everything is well in CIE will be the day it doesn't exist.

Deviso

My 13:35 DART from Clongriffin left 3 minutes early. And of course on a Sunday you can't contact customer service, and the station is unmanned.

Jamie2k9

Deviso wrote: »

My 13:35 DART from Clongriffin left 3 minutes early. And of course on a Sunday you can't contact customer service, and the station is unmanned.

It appears to have left early during the old timetable as well and then held outside Connolly. Next time press the platfrom “i” button above “sos”. CTC should really not clear a departure 3-4 minutes ahead of schedue at a terminus but train drivers should know the schedule.

thomasj

Just another Manic Monday !

https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/1046670015003545600?s=19

LEIN

That's an oddly fragmented issue.

Barna77

Passing by Killester this morning around 8.30 there were loads of people waiting on the platform.
The dart pulling up at Harmonstown was packed.


Not a chance they would get in

ixoy

Barna77 wrote: »

Passing by Killester this morning around 8.30 there were loads of people waiting on the platform.
The dart pulling up at Harmonstown was packed.

Daily occurrence now. Irish Rail don't seem to even acknowledge the problem that their customers can't even get on the consistently late trains since the new timetable.

XPS_Zero

All my work hours are currently outside rush hour cos I'm PT for the moment.



I am on the far south side and have not noticed any issues, other than the incredibly normal Rosslare train throwing a spanner in the works (and yes I know you can say the DARTs delay rosslare too, but you can stop the Rosslare at Bray's third platform and have people transfer and have a more frequent service to the south and solve that problem, it's not possible to stop the DARTs to serve the Rosslare train, regardless of what one thinks of the 'stop at Bray' proposal, it is the Rosslare trains presence that gums things up). Outside that, the 10 min thing seems to work.



But quite clearly lots of you are describing a disaster in other areas of the line, so, for clarification:


1. Is the problem mostly confined to rush hour?

2. Is it mostly confined to the morning or is it evening too?
3. This is the direct result of shorter trains instead of more trains being the method of implementing 10 min DARTs?
4. This seems to be disproportionately affecting the HJ- Malahide route, is that just because of the removal of Commuter stops or is the 10 min not running on that branch?
5. Is there no way to supplement the DARTs with other ICR or Commuter rolling stock at rush hour or is there just not enough physical space or stock free at that time? I do get that most of this is the chokepoint at Tara-Connoly


Sorry to be so wonky but I'm a social policy student my brain thinks of solving a problem rather than how bad it is and I just don't get why nobody is working on this, I'm equally baffled the NTA and govt didn't see that this would happen without new rolling stock - a child could have seen it