Irish Rail September Timetable Changes

LEIN

This is going to drive people to other modes of transport or to the car.
When it happens and the overcrowding is reduced as a result of this, it will be classed as a success.

marieholmfan

Is there any way to 'turn' trains at Dun Laoghaire and Howth Junction?

Could we have 'THIS TRAIN WILL SERVE ALL STATIONS TO DUN LAOGHAIRE ONLY' trains?
Is the disastrous northside situation caused by high levels of fare dodging that prevent Iarnrod Eireann from knowing the true state of play?

ohnonotgmail

marieholmfan wrote: »

Is there any way to 'turn' trains at Dun Laoghaire and Howth Junction?

Could we have 'THIS TRAIN WILL SERVE ALL STATIONS TO DUN LAOGHAIRE ONLY' trains?
Is the disastrous northside situation caused by high levels of fare dodging that prevent Iarnrod Eireann from knowing the true state of play?

the problem is caused by commuters trains no longer stopping at dart stations and the use of 4 carriage darts. this is entirely irish rails fault. Dont try and blame it on the poor saps who have to use this rubbish service.

marieholmfan

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the problem is caused by commuters trains no longer stopping at dart stations and the use of 4 carriage darts. this is entirely irish rails fault. Dont try and blame it on the poor saps who have to use this rubbish service.

Stop stalking me please.

ohnonotgmail

marieholmfan wrote: »

Stop stalking me please.

I'm just responding to the rubbish you keep posting.

CaoimheSquee

LEIN wrote: »

This is going to drive people to other modes of transport or to the car.
When it happens and the overcrowding is reduced as a result of this, it will be classed as a success.

As a Greystones commuter I unfortunately am one of these people, I just drive now.

I could deal with the longer travel times in the morning and earlier start, it is the issue with the shorter trains coming home. The longer trains were already full to the brim and now there is no guarantee of squishing myself on anymore. We have already had to give up being able to get on an 84X to get home and now the DART is too risky too. To the car it is.

Decuc500

marieholmfan wrote: »

Is there any way to 'turn' trains at Dun Laoghaire and Howth Junction?

Could we have 'THIS TRAIN WILL SERVE ALL STATIONS TO DUN LAOGHAIRE ONLY' trains?
Is the disastrous northside situation caused by high levels of fare dodging that prevent Iarnrod Eireann from knowing the true state of play?

Wow. If you honestly believe this then I don't know what to say. What an insulting opinion to have.

Zulu

marieholmfan wrote: »

Is the disastrous northside situation caused by high levels of fare dodging that prevent Iarnrod Eireann from knowing the true state of play?

Yes. Malahide/Portmarnock would be synonymous with fare dodging along with a host of anti-social issues. The problem being that the vast majority living there are just about employed, so although they are drug addled, tracksuit wearing ner-do-wells, they manage to hold low level jobs in society preventing them from social welfare travel passes. And utlimatly they simply "bunk" on the darts. If you look at station numbers for the past few years you'll see a stark contrast to the true usage.


Of course all of the above is horsesh1te, just like your own post.

LEIN

CaoimheSquee wrote: »

As a Greystones commuter I unfortunately am one of these people, I just drive now.

I could deal with the longer travel times in the morning and earlier start, it is the issue with the shorter trains coming home. The longer trains were already full to the brim and now there is no guarantee of squishing myself on anymore. We have already had to give up being able to get on an 84X to get home and now the DART is too risky too. To the car it is.

Travelling from Greystones also.
I use it just before rush hour at either end of the day, thankfully I have avoided those horror shows so far.

I completely get your point and when the N11 and all if its problems is the lesser of two evils, it really proves that this timetable is not working.

marieholmfan

Decuc500 wrote: »

Wow. If you honestly believe this then I don't know what to say. What an insulting opinion to have.

I don't have any opinion on the matter; it does seem that the situation is much worse on the north side than on the south side. Why would that be the case?

Decuc500

marieholmfan wrote: »

I don't have any opinion on the matter; it does seem that the situation is much worse on the north side than on the south side. Why would that be the case?

You obviously haven't been reading the thread.

ThunbergsAreGo

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

the problem is caused by commuters trains no longer stopping at dart stations and the use of 4 carriage darts. this is entirely irish rails fault. Dont try and blame it on the poor saps who have to use this rubbish service.

I dont think it is though, I get a commuter in, you wouldnt be fitting many people more on it, even if it did stop along the way

ohnonotgmail

naughtb4 wrote: »

I dont think it is though, I get a commuter in, you wouldnt be fitting many people more on it, even if it did stop along the way

Well they managed to fit before.

ThunbergsAreGo

marieholmfan wrote: »

Is the disastrous northside situation caused by high levels of fare dodging that prevent Iarnrod Eireann from knowing the true state of play?

Fare dodging might have an impact but not in the way you are meaning.

Alot of people coming from these stations will have annual tickets. I am as guilt of anyone of not tagging off on the way home as I dont want to queue.

You would still think that the commute in would be accurate enough as all the main city stations have automated gated

ThunbergsAreGo

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Well they managed to fit before.

Are we getting the same number of carriages?

Did they fit before in September 2018?

The timing of this initiative was disastrous, why they didnt test it during the quieter summer months I dont know.

ohnonotgmail

naughtb4 wrote: »

Are we getting the same number of carriages?

Did they fit before in September 2018?

The timing of this initiative was disastrous, why they didnt test it during the quieter summer months I dont know.

yes they did all fit before the timetable change.

bk

What is interesting, on another forum, I was reading how many trainsets are required to operate the ten minute DART schedule at peak time.

Based on the numbers, if 100% of the fleet was running (not including the stored 8200's) there would be enough trains for all of them to be 8 carriage trainsets.

Now 100% availability would be unreasonable, a certain amount will always be out for maintenance, etc. But 90% or so would be considered a norm. Given that, it would allow for most trains to be either 8 or 6 carriage trainsets, with just one 4 carriage set running.

However it seems there have been a lot more train failures then normal and more trains out of order then normal and this seems to cause them to need to run more 4 carriages sets then planned.

It would seem there are a lot of very unhappy drivers at IR and there may well be a strong element of go slow and issues turning up that wouldn't normally.

end of the road

so from having a look.
1. there is apparently a total of 17 8500/10/20 train sets. so, that would make 8 8 car sets with 1 spair (for argument sake we will say the spair is out for maintenence)
2. there are apparently now 38 8100 sets (originally there were apparently 40 but 2 were apparently scrapped after the fire a number of years ago)
so 12 6 car sets and 1 4 car, or 9 8 car sets and 1 4 car (for argument sake we will say the 4 car is out for maintenence)
so with the spairs out, we can have at most between 17 and 20 sets of units in service depending on configuration (mostly of the 8100 sets)
for the purposes of my point sets = double/tripple/quadruple units (depending on type) . + i'd be surprised if the amount of units out at a time aren't more then 1 unit (85 type) and 2 units (8100 type)

XPS_Zero

I guess nobody will answer or can answer those questions.



Fare dodging would not cause it. Yes they measure the number of Leaps and tickets and (now) FT passes (you are meant to tag on and off, some don't but you are supposed to, both to help the records and to validate the card, if it's not tagged when they check it on the machine they have to ring the number on the back to make sure it's valid, the actual date on the front of expiry is the cards expiry not the entitlements expiry. My card says 2022 but my actual entitlement to it ends early next year) but that's not how they do this.
FYI the above post, which I know was joking, but lot of people don't know, Jobseekers can't get FT passes, only Disability and Seniors (and some carers but they make up a tiny number, and disability are 100 000 of the 800 000, it's mostly seniors)



They do a rail census people talk to a sample ask them where they got on where they got off, it's a much better system.


The same people fare dodging before were doing it now. Also yes there IS fare dodging in well to do areas, Killiney, Shankill (which contrary to mythos is only about 1/3 council estates, it's mostly middle class and upper middle class) and Glenegeary are full of people just gliding through.


Kilbarack, HJ and Killester are another major blackspot, I get the non major stations being unammed but they should at least have the barriers closed OR more inspectors.


It's simple capacity, if it is some drivers arsing around they need to be told to do the job properly, if it's not enough sets the govt needs to urgently supply them with more. Any type at all they could get in and fit in the timetable would do for now don't have to be DARTs - though it would make sense were gonna need more DARTs down the road ANYWAY assuming FG don't cancel the metro a second time (which they may when next recession comes, and it will come)



They seem willing to make changes on Sligo-Maynooth so hopefully they will make changes to this too

ixoy

XPS_Zero wrote: »

Kilbarack, HJ and Killester are another major blackspot, I get the non major stations being unammed but they should at least have the barriers closed OR more inspectors.

? Killester is a manned station, one of the few suburban ones. It's even manned for a good chunk of Sunday. Barriers are nearly always closed. Apparently to do with the nearby remedial clinic, so it has to be manned.

bk

Seemingly it requires 18 or 19 sets to run the schedule.

So you could have:
- 8 x 8 car
- 12 x 6 car
- 4 x 2 car

That is 24 sets or a total of 144 car

Of course, expecting 100% running would be unreasonable as I said. But say taking 10% out for maintenance, it would leave you with 21 sets or 128 cars.

That would seem to indicate that the schedule is runnable with mostly 8 and 6 car sets, with just the odd one or two 4 carriage set.

Certainly tight and a set or two extra would be nice, but on paper it does seem doable. But it looks like failures have been higher then expected, they need to get to the root cause of that and fix it.

I wonder if we could ever hope to see the 8200's back. I know they are useless as a DART, but in the past there was talk of sticking an engine on the front of them and pulling them. Could help fill a gap as some sort of weird commuter fill-in, probably scratching the bottom of the barrel doing that.

ohnonotgmail

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I guess nobody will answer or can answer those questions.



Fare dodging would not cause it. Yes they measure the number of Leaps and tickets and (now) FT passes (you are meant to tag on and off, some don't but you are supposed to, both to help the records and to validate the card, if it's not tagged when they check it on the machine they have to ring the number on the back to make sure it's valid, the actual date on the front of expiry is the cards expiry not the entitlements expiry. My card says 2022 but my actual entitlement to it ends early next year) but that's not how they do this.
FYI the above post, which I know was joking, but lot of people don't know, Jobseekers can't get FT passes, only Disability and Seniors (and some carers but they make up a tiny number, and disability are 100 000 of the 800 000, it's mostly seniors)



They do a rail census people talk to a sample ask them where they got on where they got off, it's a much better system.


The same people fare dodging before were doing it now. Also yes there IS fare dodging in well to do areas, Killiney, Shankill (which contrary to mythos is only about 1/3 council estates, it's mostly middle class and upper middle class) and Glenegeary are full of people just gliding through.


Kilbarack, HJ and Killester are another major blackspot, I get the non major stations being unammed but they should at least have the barriers closed OR more inspectors.


It's simple capacity, if it is some drivers arsing around they need to be told to do the job properly, if it's not enough sets the govt needs to urgently supply them with more. Any type at all they could get in and fit in the timetable would do for now don't have to be DARTs - though it would make sense were gonna need more DARTs down the road ANYWAY assuming FG don't cancel the metro a second time (which they may when next recession comes, and it will come)



They seem willing to make changes on Sligo-Maynooth so hopefully they will make changes to this too

Howth Junction is manned but there is always a barrier open.

Sam Russell

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Howth Junction is manned but there is always a barrier open.

The barriers at Glenageary have been removed - just a Leap validator.

punisher5112

Sam Russell wrote: »

The barriers at Glenageary have been removed - just a Leap validator.

Same with Dalkey.

I've seen many well to do and not short a few quid just sail on by.

They walk out of barriers close behind others as to get through anywhere else.

Needs to be proper checks done on carriages.

XPS_Zero

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Howth Junction is manned but there is always a barrier open.

I go thru HJ regularly, I have never ONE. SINGLE. TIME. in several years, seen it manned. I must always be passing through on their break.....

Conchir

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I go thru HJ regularly, I have never ONE. SINGLE. TIME. in several years, seen it manned. I must always be passing through on their break.....

I've seen the Donaghmede side manned a good bit, never seen the Kilbarrack side manned.

Kh1993

Donaghmede side is manned most of the time but with the side door and barriers open, seems fairly pointless. And the Kilbarrack side hasn’t been manned I’d say since within months of it opening.

ohnonotgmail

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I go thru HJ regularly, I have never ONE. SINGLE. TIME. in several years, seen it manned. I must always be passing through on their break.....

Conchir wrote: »

I've seen the Donaghmede side manned a good bit, never seen the Kilbarrack side manned.

In fairness i only ever use the donaghmede side so this is entirely possible

Working class heroes

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I go thru HJ regularly, I have never ONE. SINGLE. TIME. in several years, seen it manned. I must always be passing through on their break.....

Or maybe they see you coming and hide.

marieholmfan

Would taking out seats help (not all seats by the way - some seats).