Irish Rail September Timetable Changes

devnull

Stephen15 wrote: »

I prefer the 8100 class but the one problem I have have with them is they feel a bit more like a light rail vehicle whereas the 8500 class while the seats aren't great feel a bit more solid on rails and more like a proper train.

I generally don't like bench seats but I prefer the 8100 class to the 8500 and 8510 trains with the crazy amounts of padding and low seating position that pretty much encourages slouching. The 8520s are the second best after the 8100 a big improvement over the overly padded ones and more room.

The 8100s really feel more cut out for the kind of work DART is, which is basically inner suburban work rather than the newer stuff that feels more like an outer suburban train that has had a few things taken out of it.

The general feeling of quality is better on the 8100s as well, they have a PIS that works, thay have good windows, they feel like a train and the build quality seems better on the interior if you ask me. The refurbishment really was excellent, they look nothing like their age and their older siblings are still in service in Hamburg.

When the 8100s finally go to be scrapped I hope they preserve at least one full set, as it will be a really sad day for a well built train that has served Dublin exceptionally well and is probably the last of the IE stock that will see anything like 40 years in service. I normally prefer new to old, but I make an exception for the 8100s.

bk

Well the rumour has it that Irish Rail are currently preparing a tender for a large numbers of both EMU's (DARTs) and hybrid diesel-electric trains for commuter services.

I would assume that this isn't just replacing old DARTs, but a significant expansion too.

It does look like this new 10 minute schedule is workable in terms of scheduling and paths, which is great news. But if only they had more DART carriages and thus all 8 carriage trains, then it seems most of the above complaints would be resolved.

I'd suspect we will hear a lot more about new trains in the next few months. I suspect they are waiting to announce it all as part of a big DART Expansion project launch, similar to the Metrolink launch.

ted1

bk wrote: »

Well the rumour has it that Irish Rail are currently preparing a tender for a large numbers of both EMU's (DARTs) and hybrid diesel-electric trains for commuter services.

I would assume that this isn't just replacing old DARTs, but a significant expansion too.

It does look like this new 10 minute schedule is workable in terms of scheduling and paths, which is great news. But if only they had more DART carriages and thus all 8 carriage trains, then it seems most of the above complaints would be resolved.

I'd suspect we will hear a lot more about new trains in the next few months. I suspect they are waiting to announce it all as part of a big DART Expansion project launch, similar to the Metrolink launch.

I know Irish rail have been getting ready to build new substations for the expansion

lawred2

bk wrote: »

Well the rumour has it that Irish Rail are currently preparing a tender for a large numbers of both EMU's (DARTs) and hybrid diesel-electric trains for commuter services.

I would assume that this isn't just replacing old DARTs, but a significant expansion too.

It does look like this new 10 minute schedule is workable in terms of scheduling and paths, which is great news. But if only they had more DART carriages and thus all 8 carriage trains, then it seems most of the above complaints would be resolved.

I'd suspect we will hear a lot more about new trains in the next few months. I suspect they are waiting to announce it all as part of a big DART Expansion project launch, similar to the Metrolink launch.

Should this not have been done first?

bk

lawred2 wrote: »

Should this not have been done first?

All of it, 10 minute DARTs, electrification, extra trains, etc. should have been 10 years ago.

CatInABox

bk wrote: »

I'd suspect we will hear a lot more about new trains in the next few months. I suspect they are waiting to announce it all as part of a big DART Expansion project launch, similar to the Metrolink launch.

The NTA's schedule is pretty full these days.

They are meant to finish the BusConnects consultation (28th Sept), then publish the plans for metro link (Meant to be last month, but probably delayed due to the BusConnects consultation extention), then the BusConnects Core Corridors plan is to be published in October (This might have been put back by the others as well).

I think if we see more about the Dart Expansion before the new year, we'll be lucky.

end of the road

Infini wrote: »

Those Spanish sets are long gone lol they got sold off ages ago last I heard.

As for new unit's government needs to stop messing around and cough up capital for extra DMU's like the Japanese ones. The older Darts are also getting on in year's as well theyll be 35 Years old by 2020 and usually these thing's have a 40 odd year lifespan before they're replaced. Doors on those sets are also slower to close as well.

the 8200s are still in inchicore as far as i know. IE did try to sell them a few years ago but there was no interest (unsurprisingly)

Infini

bk wrote: »

All of it, 10 minute DARTs, electrification, extra trains, etc. should have been 10 years ago.

Yeah but instead the FG idiot's butchered everything. They slashed funding because of the recession and forgot that infrastructure is not an expense but an investment that pays back in the long term. Then they idiotically cancelled the DU instead for a bloody metro which involves ripping up part of the LUAS line even though they could just build a spur off the Northern line to the airport for a fraction of the cost and maybe extend it to swords or that.....

Seriously things like that really irritate me...

marno21

Infini wrote: »

Yeah but instead the FG idiot's butchered everything. They slashed funding because of the recession and forgot that infrastructure is not an expense but an investment that pays back in the long term. Then they idiotically cancelled the DU instead for a bloody metro which involves ripping up part of the LUAS line even though they could just build a spur off the Northern line to the airport for a fraction of the cost and maybe extend it to swords or that.....

Seriously things like that really irritate me...

There is no Luas lines being ripped up. There is no capacity on the Northern line for a spur.

Re-educate yourself

marno21

bk wrote: »

Well the rumour has it that Irish Rail are currently preparing a tender for a large numbers of both EMU's (DARTs) and hybrid diesel-electric trains for commuter services.

I would assume that this isn't just replacing old DARTs, but a significant expansion too.

It does look like this new 10 minute schedule is workable in terms of scheduling and paths, which is great news. But if only they had more DART carriages and thus all 8 carriage trains, then it seems most of the above complaints would be resolved.

I'd suspect we will hear a lot more about new trains in the next few months. I suspect they are waiting to announce it all as part of a big DART Expansion project launch, similar to the Metrolink launch.

The only way the NTA are going to properly encourage long term investment in the DART system is by driving the entire system to breaking point to show just how limited it is

When we get to the stage that the DART system is overall constantly the focus of bad publicity there will be major investment

It's a sad system but it's the way things seem to go around here

Cookie_Monster

marno21 wrote: »

The only way the NTA are going to properly encourage long term investment in the DART system is by driving the entire system to breaking point to show just how limited it is

When we get to the stage that the DART system is overall constantly the focus of bad publicity there will be major investment

It's a sad system but it's the way things seem to go around here

That's hardly ideal though. If it's broken today (and recognised) it's a minimum of 5 years broken before any meaningful infrastructure is funded and built built. Long time to be running a broken system.

ted1

Infini wrote: »

Yeah but instead the FG idiot's butchered everything. They slashed funding because of the recession and forgot that infrastructure is not an expense but an investment that pays back in the long term. Then they idiotically cancelled the DU instead for a bloody metro which involves ripping up part of the LUAS line even though they could just build a spur off the Northern line to the airport for a fraction of the cost and maybe extend it to swords or that.....

Seriously things like that really irritate me...

What are they ripping up? The green line was built to metro spec with wider tracks


Isn’t a dedicated line much bette was then a half arsed attempt with a spur.

Zebra3

Infini wrote: »

Yeah but instead the FG idiot's butchered everything. They slashed funding because of the recession and forgot that infrastructure is not an expense but an investment that pays back in the long term. Then they idiotically cancelled the DU instead for a bloody metro which involves ripping up part of the LUAS line even though they could just build a spur off the Northern line to the airport for a fraction of the cost and maybe extend it to swords or that.....

Seriously things like that really irritate me...

FG didn’t forget anything.

They made calculated short term political decisions.

devnull

marno21 wrote: »

bk wrote: »

Well the rumour has it that Irish Rail are currently preparing a tender for a large numbers of both EMU's (DARTs) and hybrid diesel-electric trains for commuter services.

I would assume that this isn't just replacing old DARTs, but a significant expansion too.

It does look like this new 10 minute schedule is workable in terms of scheduling and paths, which is great news. But if only they had more DART carriages and thus all 8 carriage trains, then it seems most of the above complaints would be resolved.

I'd suspect we will hear a lot more about new trains in the next few months. I suspect they are waiting to announce it all as part of a big DART Expansion project launch, similar to the Metrolink launch.

The only way the NTA are going to properly encourage long term investment in the DART system is by driving the entire system to breaking point to show just how limited it is

When we get to the stage that the DART system is overall constantly the focus of bad publicity there will be major investment

It's a sad system but it's the way things seem to go around here

Indeed and that has been the case for as long as I can remember across many governments.

The J Stands for Jay

Looks to me like Greystones isn't seeing a frequency improvement, but just a change in times. Which means that the buses no longer link up with the train times...

The J Stands for Jay

ted1 wrote: »

What are they ripping up? The green line was built to metro spec with wider tracks


Isn’t a dedicated line much bette was then a half arsed attempt with a spur.

Could've sworn I read on journal.ie that they were going to be closing a big stretch of the luas for the Metro upgrade so they could replace the lines.

LeinsterDub

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

That's hardly ideal though. If it's broken today (and recognised) it's a minimum of 5 years broken before any meaningful infrastructure is funded and built built. Long time to be running a broken system.

We've been running a broken system for 25 years. Both dart and bus

L1011

McGaggs wrote: »

Could've sworn I read on journal.ie that they were going to be closing a big stretch of the luas for the Metro upgrade so they could replace the lines.

One potential option could involve a closure to build a bridge that was not replaced originally at Dunville Avenue. That is not set in stone

L1011

And the 0545 Sligo is making use of its padding again today. Already 5 mins late to Maynooth and holding up the stopping service behind it

Ohmeha

8 carriages back on the southbound howth darts for 8.00 and 8.20 this morning

devnull

From what I have seen and from what colleagues have told me it was slightly better this morning, but still room for improvement.

I did notice though that more Howth sets seem to be 2 carriages up on yesterday, when really you'd have thought that they'd have added more to Malahide.

Cloudio9

People standing from Malahide on the 830 Dart this morning. Then in Portmarnock the previous 829 Dart and 841 commuter services have been replaced by this one Dart so big crowds on platform.

frisbeeface

Cloudio9 wrote: »

People standing from Malahide on the 830 Dart this morning. Then in Portmarnock the previous 829 Dart and 841 commuter services have been replaced by this one Dart so big crowds on platform.

I'm on the same DART and there's still seats free in my carriage at Kilbarrack.

ted1

McGaggs wrote: »

Looks to me like Greystones isn't seeing a frequency improvement, but just a change in times. Which means that the buses no longer link up with the train times...

It’s in Wicklow they should be lucky to have a DART. The single track is a big issue there

Ohmeha

devnull wrote: »

From what I have seen and from what colleagues have told me it was slightly better this morning, but still room for improvement.

I did notice though that more Howth sets seem to be 2 carriages up on yesterday, when really you'd have thought that they'd have added more to Malahide.

8.00 howth southbound 100% needs to be 8 carriages, always busiest dart heading into city centre, madness that it was 6 carriages yesterday

8.20 howth southbound could cope with 6 carriages

L1011

L1011 wrote: »

And the 0545 Sligo is making use of its padding again today. Already 5 mins late to Maynooth and holding up the stopping service behind it

Reached Ossory Road early and then had to wait so long that it ended up in Connolly late!

PCros

As the pressure seems to be mounting now for IR and we cans see they are getting complaints every 30 seconds on Twitter...can they just amend the timetable again now or is there a load of red tape to go and do that?

Decuc500

devnull wrote: »

I did notice though that more Howth sets seem to be 2 carriages up on yesterday, when really you'd have thought that they'd have added more to Malahide.

If you were one of the people using the short darts yesterday morning from Howth you'd be happy to see them increased this morning.

I got the 8:31 at Kilbarrack and it was thankfully 8 carriages long. Still didn't get a seat.

The old (proper rush hour) 11 minute gap between two Howth darts at this time of the morning is gone as are my chances of getting a seat, but there you go, first world problems, have to think of the greater good etc.

loyatemu

McGaggs wrote: »

Looks to me like Greystones isn't seeing a frequency improvement, but just a change in times. Which means that the buses no longer link up with the train times...

no frequency increase in Greystones but apparently the NTA are looking into option for providing a 20 minute service (a passing loop seem the most likely solution).

The buses never met with the trains - BusConnects is supposed to fix that, but DublinBus often behave like they're in competition with Irish Rail. Buses often pull out of Greystones station as there are still crowds emerging from an incoming Dart.

Cloudio9

frisbeeface wrote: »

I'm on the same DART and there's still seats free in my carriage at Kilbarrack.

Maybe you have BO 😀

Infini

loyatemu wrote: »

no frequency increase in Greystones but apparently the NTA are looking into option for providing a 20 minute service (a passing loop seem the most likely solution).

The buses never met with the trains - BusConnects is supposed to fix that, but DublinBus often behave like they're in competition with Irish Rail. Buses often pull out of Greystones station as there are still crowds emerging from an incoming Dart.

Honestly if they want a quicker service down there they NEED to double-track that section but to do so would involve the need to employ a significant amount of tunneling and scaling back of the cliff face as well. There really isnt any room for a passing loop.

loyatemu

Infini wrote: »

Honestly if they want a quicker service down there they NEED to double-track that section but to do so would involve the need to employ a significant amount of tunneling and scaling back of the cliff face as well. There really isnt any room for a passing loop.

there's room for a a loop on the Greystones side of the long tunnel. They could also (at greater cost/disruption) double the whole way between the tunnel and Greystones station, there's space but it would be a big job as they'd have to widen cuttings and embankments and replace a few bridges.

Doubling the whole section between Bray and Greystones - I'd imagine they'd have to dig an entirely new tunnel almost the full length of the hill, so crazy money and not justifiable at current population levels.

Del.Monte

devnull wrote: »

I generally don't like bench seats but I prefer the 8100 class to the 8500 and 8510 trains with the crazy amounts of padding and low seating position that pretty much encourages slouching. The 8520s are the second best after the 8100 a big improvement over the overly padded ones and more room.

The 8100s really feel more cut out for the kind of work DART is, which is basically inner suburban work rather than the newer stuff that feels more like an outer suburban train that has had a few things taken out of it.

The general feeling of quality is better on the 8100s as well, they have a PIS that works, thay have good windows, they feel like a train and the build quality seems better on the interior if you ask me. The refurbishment really was excellent, they look nothing like their age and their older siblings are still in service in Hamburg.



When the 8100s finally go to be scrapped I hope they preserve at least one full set, as it will be a really sad day for a well built train that has served Dublin exceptionally well and is probably the last of the IE stock that will see anything like 40 years in service. I normally prefer new to old, but I make an exception for the 8100s.

Agree with you about the original DART carriages being the best but where do you think they should be preserved - Moyasta or in the National Transport Museum/Hay Shed in Howth?

Atlantic Dawn

Hoefully they refrain from turning the unnecessary heat on them until it actually gets very cold or they will need to setup a temporary morgue at Connolly.

XPS_Zero

Infini wrote: »

It was well warned by plenty that increased traffic would have this effect. Drivers issues aside they need to invest significantly in the infrastructure itself including DU and rolling stock to have better reliability.

I say this through gritted teeth as a politico...if the commuters want this then they have to say "invest in public services esp public transport" when canvassers come to their door and when pollsters call them on the phone NOT:

"I want to get rid of USC"
"I want a minor tax cut I'll barely notice on pure principle"
"I want an extra 5er on my pension"

Conrary to what you may think, the campaigns that know what they are doing (the ones I run do anyway..) write down what people say on the canvass and when the same issue keeps popping up again and again they notice.
The problem is people keep thinking short term, or they tell their national representative (instead of their local election candidate) about their local park or bad road or complain they are having trouble getting one of the new medical cards, by all means complain about the stuff bothering you atm but if you want bigger scale changes yell for them.

I often find it really odd that public transport infrastructure never comes up with Dublin people, the country folk will tell you all day long they want a stop from the Cork line for their town etc but the Dublin people restrict themselves to complaining about the local bus stop and never complain about the bigger stuff.
Even look at the Portmarnock example, their complaint is NOT "you guys don't know the difference between an investment and an expense, you are frittering money away on short term stuff instead of building things that will get me to work faster like Metro and DU...stop announcing them F

---

G BUILD THEM ALREADY! and add more capacity to the rail lines!"...their complaint is, as I keep coming back to "look after my bit of the jigsaw puzzle", stop at MY station again...forget the domino effect it might have on the rest of the line, stop at MY station...so what you end up with there is the TD for that area and the govt and the TD for some other area fighting over what will happen...whereas if the politicos see you all demanding major infrastructure upgrades they will do it, and EVERYONE will benefit it won't be just "my station wins your station loses".


If we had finished T21 by now none of this would be an issue at all!


Much as I love blaming Irish Rail and the Irish public sector and their unions for things, although the union did sabotage driver training here, this is the govts fault, the last 3 govts, not IE's. Cowens govt never should have delayed T21 (yes even in a national crises, in depressions is when the govt is supposed to step in as the investor, we got billions to bail out failed companies we could have folded investment in the country into the plans), Leo and his successor never should have canceled it then faffed around for years hemming and hawing over it with absurd plans to run a Luas to the aiport dumping people in a loop around the roundabout. This all comes down to that - T21 was never finished and it needs to be. I realize that even if they pick up the shovels now it will take years so obviously we need some soloution in the mean time, but this can has to be stopped kicking down the road and the only way that will happen is through public demand.

There is a general election in a year, mention PT investment every time a canvasser calls, any time a polling company calls you, anytime you call into a radio show, any time you are talking to other friends make the case why it's needed esp if they bring up problems like THIS, talk about it so often people roll their eyes and tell you to change the tune.

It's the only way this will ever get sorted.

Oh and you have to tell them it's more important to you than your tax cut - sorry, sure we'd be borrowing for this but we need the revenue from tax to pay the interest and pay it back.

Jamie2k9

My only comment is they have drafted the timetable fairly well, things were movming well give or take 2-3 minutes.

bk

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I often find it really odd that public transport infrastructure never comes up with Dublin people, the country folk will tell you all day long they want a stop from the Cork line for their town etc but the Dublin people restrict themselves to complaining about the local bus stop and never complain about the bigger stuff.

I think the problem is too many people living in Dublin still think of it as a town, rather then a medium sized European capital city of 1.5 million people (metro).

I think most people don't realise how big Dublin has really gotten and don't realise that similar sized European cities would have 3 or 4 Metro lines and extensive tram networks. So they don't really know to shout for it, even though they are suffering every day during their commute into work. They don't know that it can be better.

That is why I think it is so important to get Metrolink built. I think it will completely change peoples thinking about infrastructure like this and lead to calls for more. Just like we saw we Luas was first built.

CatInABox

bk wrote: »

I think the problem is too many people living in Dublin still think of it as a town, rather then a medium sized European capital city of 1.5 million people (metro).

It's a very, very small example of this, but I'm changing how I'm referring to Dublin. I'm no longer saying "I'm heading into town", I'm trying to say "city centre", or even just "city". It's quite hard to change an ingrained thought though, so I have to admit I'm struggling.

The J Stands for Jay

loyatemu wrote: »

no frequency increase in Greystones but apparently the NTA are looking into option for providing a 20 minute service (a passing loop seem the most likely solution).

The buses never met with the trains - BusConnects is supposed to fix that, but DublinBus often behave like they're in competition with Irish Rail. Buses often pull out of Greystones station as there are still crowds emerging from an incoming Dart.

The buses to Greystones would drop you off in time to catch the DART, but not now. You're right about them not meeting passengers off the train. I've seen them turn off the lights on the bus before dropping off passengers so as to sneak past without picking anyone up.

ThunbergsAreGo

CatInABox wrote: »

It's a very, very small example of this, but I'm changing how I'm referring to Dublin. I'm no longer saying "I'm heading into town", I'm trying to say "city centre", or even just "city". It's quite hard to change an ingrained thought though, so I have to admit I'm struggling.

It will always be town to me

Euppy

Someone earlier was asking about the clongriffin passing loop. The northbound drogheda train im on has just overtaken a malahide dart that left connolly roughly 7mins earlier.

LEIN

Any mumblings from the level crossings yet?

gimli2112

It's working for me going home but only because the scheduled dart's been 2-3 minutes late. The one after it was 17 minutes behind today for some reason.

LEIN

Smooth morning and a disaster coming home.

DART to Greystones arrived 11 minutes late to Bray, changing drivers had a chat that was close to 2 minutes before moving and end up 13 minutes late into Greystones. How and why this is acceptable, I will never know.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Worked well in both directions today for me. Although it was probably past rush hour proper when I was going home. Nice to turn up and expect a train within a few minutes.

Chris_5339762

loyatemu wrote: »

there's room for a a loop on the Greystones side of the long tunnel. They could also (at greater cost/disruption) double the whole way between the tunnel and Greystones station, there's space but it would be a big job as they'd have to widen cuttings and embankments and replace a few bridges.

Doubling the whole section between Bray and Greystones - I'd imagine they'd have to dig an entirely new tunnel almost the full length of the hill, so crazy money and not justifiable at current population levels.

I think it'll just simply have to be done eventually. That one track section on the main interurban (we can call it that) and commuter route to the south of Dublin is just absurd, nice as the views are along it and a testament to the Victorian engineers that built it.



We need to seriously ramp up rail investment in this country. A new two way tunnel from Bray to Greystones will have to be done. The other thing that needs to be done ASAP is the removal of any single track sections to Galway because they are ridiculous, but thats for another thread.


Also DART Underground. Now.

thomasj

Apparently (according to twitter) last night's cancelled DART to malahide hasn't shown up again tonight , but the RTI apps and the station board is acting as if it's running and has shown up.

Meanwhile there is also a DART being used for culture night tonight .

A lot of tweets about it.

Infini

thomasj wrote: »

Apparently (according to twitter) last night's cancelled DART to malahide hasn't shown up again tonight , but the RTI apps and the station board is acting as if it's running and has shown up.

Meanwhile there is also a DART being used for culture night tonight .

A lot of tweets about it.

3 Trains didnt run from what I could see. Likely no available drivers to drive them.

thomasj

Infini wrote:

3 Trains didnt run from what I could see. Likely no available drivers to drive them.

And not a word from Irish rail about these cancellations today?

faceman

LEIN wrote: »

Any mumblings from the level crossings yet?

Was wondering this too. Any word on whether it’s even more painful for motorists?