Rail services with full dining carriage ?

Gaz

Recently took a trip up to Belfast and thoroughly enjoyed the journey. Very modern and comfortable train made all the better by standing at the large windows in the restaurant car with beer in hand watching the world go by.

Are there any other routes in Ireland of a similar standard or are most simply a trolley with a few sambos and drinks ?

end of the road

some of the dublin-cork services have a dining car i think.
for all other services bar that and belfast, it's a an over-priced trolly, and that's if you are lucky.

Jamie2k9

Most peak Cork services and daily direct Tralee Mon-Fri. You will see a knife/fork incon in the planner. Don't expect the same quality on IE services.

XPS_Zero

Only Cork and Belfast.

There are IE "Premier" carriages (which IE seems to have bought with no actual idea or strategy regarding how to actually use them , then just shrugged and stuck them on regular routes as normal carriages) that have a first class section and a bit between FC and standard with a shop but it does not have a dining area and because it's on regular hum drum routes (but, bizarrely, NEVER EVER on the 3 hour Sligo route which is the one bloody route that could use an on board shop - they are just such painfully stupid morons with no business sense whatsoever) the shop, even if you get one of these carriages, is closed 90% of the time.

The Enterprise is probably the best quality service on the island by far, especially since it's recent upgrade. Getting your expresso or beer and watching the countryside race by is a nice experience. IE will make damn sure you don't experience such pleasures on any other routes - God forbid, it might encourage you to pay that tiny bit extra and increase rail use, we could not have that now - it would interfere with CIE's primary task which is to hemorrhage money

Del.Monte

Back in the day - the 1980s - when things were really bad stock-wise, I remember that a full kitchen car (not a dining car) sometimes appeared on the Sligo train. It served nothing and was used by the unfortunate Board's servant to store his miserable stock. I kid you not, there was no trolley and he had to carry his sandwiches through the train on a wooden tray. And you tell young people today!

I see poor old Judgement Day even posted about it here seven years ago: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64606858&postcount=36

Whatever became of him?

Isambard

word has it he is in a Home for Bewildered Gentlefolk.

XPS_Zero

Del.Monte wrote: »

Back in the day - the 1980s - when things were really bad stock-wise, I remember that a full kitchen car (not a dining car) sometimes appeared on the Sligo train. It served nothing and was used by the unfortunate Board's servant to store his miserable stock. I kid you not, there was no trolley and he had to carry his sandwiches through the train on a wooden tray. And you tell young people today!

I see poor old Judgement Day even posted about it here seven years ago: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64606858&postcount=36

Whatever became of him?

Did any of the Mark III's have a dining carriage?
Was first class EVER operated outside the Belfast-Cork route?

gingernut79

I'm sure I saw chips on the Sligo train in the 90s. The dining car was definitely there at the time.

XPS_Zero

XPS_Zero wrote: »

Did any of the Mark III's have a dining carriage?
Was first class EVER operated outside the Belfast-Cork route?

Yes, the 7400-series coaches. They had signs in the windows to state that the seating was for dining passengers only. I also remember a Telecom Eireann payphone in them.

I once took a Dublin to Tralee run in the Executive coach 7162, now that was nice.

L1011

Payphones had the "lovely" original Eircell italic logo on them. I can't remember if they removed them quickly when the analogue network closed down; certainly hope they had their coin slots stopped up at least!

Rarely got MkIIIs out my way though so there was often a good few months between sightings.

Del.Monte

XPS_Zero wrote: »

Did any of the Mark III's have a dining carriage?
Was first class EVER operated outside the Belfast-Cork route?

When the MkIIIs were introduced they had MacDonald's style colourful plastic seating - ghastly - soon replaced by standard MkIII seating.

The 2400 series Laminate Dining cars in service from 1955-84 were the best from a passenger's point of view. Plenty of seating - synthetic individual leather seating and a great bar counter.

whisky_galore

Del.Monte wrote: »

I see poor old Judgement Day even posted about it here seven years ago: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64606858&postcount=36

Whatever became of him?

Reincarnated.

Losty Dublin

Del.Monte wrote: »

I see poor old Judgement Day even posted about it here seven years ago: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64606858&postcount=36

Whatever became of him?

Last seen running out of a bog in Leitrim chased by an angry bin lurry

tabbey

XPS_Zero wrote: »

Did any of the Mark III's have a dining carriage?
Was first class EVER operated outside the Belfast-Cork route?

Mk III trains generally had a dining car, but the availability of dining service was less certain, often just snack service on quieter trains. This was not the case in Mk III push-pull sets, which were intended for outer suburban services. One of the pushpulls was retro fitted with a snackbar for the Waterford route.

In earlier times, vitrually all mainline trains apart from summer extras, had a buffet car. The exception was the down morning / up afternoon Rosslare train. This was known as the starvation train.

Traditionally all mainline trains had first class accomodation, but mostly not a full coach. Composite coaches had a first class end, and a standard portion, so typically just 24 first class seats. The AEC railcars introduced in 1952 had twelve first class seats at each end of the train, with a view ahead through the drivers cab. In later years these ran suburban trains without first class so standard class passengers could travel in comfort, if they realised they were allowed to use thes seats.

Mongfinder General

The best set up I have seen in this country is a private train run by the railway preservation society of Ireland. It's a train built in 1964. It has a full bar and at least one snack bar. They organise excursions. Well worth experiencing

Jamie2k9

Mongfinder General wrote: »

The best set up I have seen in this country is a private train run by the railway preservation society of Ireland. It's a train built in 1964. It has a full bar and at least one snack bar. They organise excursions. Well worth experiencing

I don't think Belmond Grand Hibernian would agree

Joe_ Public

I remember when you’d always get a rather good breakfast in the dining car, though never sampled any more gourmet fare than that.

Mongfinder General

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I don't think Belmond Grand Hibernian would agree

Well that's the best I've gotten to experience in my time but you're probably right

tabbey

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I remember when you’d always get a rather good breakfast in the dining car, though never sampled any more gourmet fare than that.

When the Mk IIs were introduced in the early 1970s, as well as sitting in a dining car, you could get your hot meal brought to your seat by the waiter throughout the train. Didnot last very long, but the aroma of a steak dinner was very tempting, so more people ordered it.

Any time I took a day trip by rail, I used to get either a breakfast in the morning or a dinner in the evening, rarely both.
The food was good quality and cooked naturally. Today we get cook chill products full of additives and gruesome sauces, partially because public taste has become more cosmopolitan, but also for the sake of perceived economy.

On British Rail, meals were served at specific sittings, rather than a walk up service as in Ireland. BR meals on long distance trains had a touch of class, the waiters in liveried uniforms served each passenger in the dining car, according to the passenger's wishes - Gravy, Sir, - more roast potatoes , or carrots etc.

Jem72

Sligo used to do breakfasts and steak and chips up until sometime in the early 90's. There never seemed to be much call for it. I can remember using first class around 1994 but it was gone by the time I started using the train regularly again around 2001.

First class on Mk IIs was quite nice. Three across seating and carpet which weren't in standard a the time. It was a far quieter experience that standard due to the carpet and the fact that hardly anybody used it. Used to cost £3 surcharge if the ticket collector got as far as you by the time you were getting off - pretty good value really especially since you rarely had to pay both ways going down on a Friday and back up on Sunday evening. It's pretty easy to see why they gave up on it.

I'd agree that it is quite poor that there is nothing better than trolley service on Sligo any more. I guess that is one of the perils of railcars costing 2 million euro a time - you've got to pack them full of seats rather than having a dining car taking up a railcar.

Yggr of Asgard

Dublin to Cork with full dining car service is getting less and less. With the winter schedule several trains that previous had a dining car service are no longer having the service.

In addition on several recent journeys even those which had a dining car according to the schedule did not either because there was no water in the kitchen or there was not enough staff available or some other reason.

In addition the previous city gold benefit of a free coffee/tea/orange juice/water is now mostly to a coffee/tea from the trolley rather than the nice fresh coffee French press variant that was done in the past.

XPS_Zero

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

Dublin to Cork with full dining car service is getting less and less. With the winter schedule several trains that previous had a dining car service are no longer having the service.

In addition on several recent journeys even those which had a dining car according to the schedule did not either because there was no water in the kitchen or there was not enough staff available or some other reason.

In addition the previous city gold benefit of a free coffee/tea/orange juice/water is now mostly to a coffee/tea from the trolley rather than the nice fresh coffee French press variant that was done in the past.

I don't want to privatize it, but I would consider the Luas model putting out for day to day management - and this is the kinda thing why, IE have no concept of customer service, none at all, this they think will save them money but when 1st class becomes just not worth it they'll lose money. 1st class is all about the LITTLE details, the small creature comforts to take the edge off the fact that you're traveling, to make it more like a Hotel or country club / spa experience, killing off the frills will only make people less likley to pick it.

end of the road

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I don't want to privatize it, but I would consider the Luas model putting out for day to day management - and this is the kinda thing why, IE have no concept of customer service, none at all, this they think will save them money but when 1st class becomes just not worth it they'll lose money. 1st class is all about the LITTLE details, the small creature comforts to take the edge off the fact that you're traveling, to make it more like a Hotel or country club / spa experience, killing off the frills will only make people less likley to pick it.

while i agree about first class and other options that make rail travel a more premium option, the luas model isn't going to make a difference to those issues, or any of the other issues on the railway. over in the uk, first class, like a lot of other issues, are very hit and miss dispite private rail companies running the trains.

Jamie2k9

Dublin to Cork with full dining car service is getting less and less. With the winter schedule several trains that previous had a dining car service are no longer having the service.

In addition on several recent journeys even those which had a dining car according to the schedule did not either because there was no water in the kitchen or there was not enough staff available or some other reason.

In addition the previous city gold benefit of a free coffee/tea/orange juice/water is now mostly to a coffee/tea from the trolley rather than the nice fresh coffee French press variant that was done in the past.

Only service with full restaurant service:
Ex Dublin 07.00, 17.00, 18.00
Ex Cork 07.00

Ex Dublin 17.05
Ex Tralee 07.05

This has not changed since mid 2015, the only service it was removed from was the 18.20 ex Cork in early 2016 ish.

Yggr of Asgard

I can tell you from experience that the 1620 from Cork has a full restaurant service (big menu) several weeks this year (maybe not according to the schedule but in real life). It depends on the crew, if the right crew is there they have the big menu and do an excellent service. If there is a replacement crew the service is spotty, sometimes not even the small menu but just trolley.

In effect it seams to depend on what the company actually running the service is putting as staff on the train. Sometimes it's the full menu, sometimes it the small menu, sometimes it a trolley only. And than there are those days where the train has no water or no hot water or some other problem that makes it a trolley only service.

I always look for the crew, if it's the regulars than I know I get a good service, if I see enterprise people (like last Friday) it can be anything and if its people I never saw before it's usually bad.

XPS_Zero

end of the road wrote: »

while i agree about first class and other options that make rail travel a more premium option, the luas model isn't going to make a difference to those issues, or any of the other issues on the railway. over in the uk, first class, like a lot of other issues, are very hit and miss dispite private rail companies running the trains.

If the country was facing actual bankruptcy (not the "were broke" sh1te in 2008 where we were not ACTUALLY broke, we just had a budget deficit that was far too high and needed to come down) I would not privatize CIE, much as I'd love to do it just to get a bottle of booze and a bowl of popcorn and watch SIPTUs reaction when they were told about it.

But I do think it would help if day to day management was competed for. I have personal experience of FC on Virgin and while I was not a fan of the carriages (I found the model they use far too confining and narrow compared to say the Enterprise or MIVs) the food was excellent quality. I know it's not inevitable that this be so, and it would WANT to be quality considering the frankly disgusting ticket price, it was much nicer and more varied.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Only service with full restaurant service:
Ex Dublin 07.00, 17.00, 18.00
Ex Cork 07.00

Ex Dublin 17.05
Ex Tralee 07.05

This has not changed since mid 2015, the only service it was removed from was the 18.20 ex Cork in early 2016 ish.

Hold on - are those other services ICRs? or are you saying you can pay for FC on the Cork route and get nothing for it except for nicer furniture and less riff raff?
Or is this just that the standard class passengers don't have the option to go to the restaurant car and sit down there for a meal?

Jamie2k9

XPS_Zero wrote: »

If the country was facing actual bankruptcy (not the "were broke" sh1te in 2008 where we were not ACTUALLY broke, we just had a budget deficit that was far too high and needed to come down) I would not privatize CIE, much as I'd love to do it just to get a bottle of booze and a bowl of popcorn and watch SIPTUs reaction when they were told about it.

But I do think it would help if day to day management was competed for. I have personal experience of FC on Virgin and while I was not a fan of the carriages (I found the model they use far too confining and narrow compared to say the Enterprise or MIVs) the food was excellent quality. I know it's not inevitable that this be so, and it would WANT to be quality considering the frankly disgusting ticket price, it was much nicer and more varied.



Hold on - are those other services ICRs? or are you saying you can pay for FC on the Cork route and get nothing for it except for nicer furniture and less riff raff?
Or is this just that the standard class passengers don't have the option to go to the restaurant car and sit down there for a meal?

Those are the ones where it's guaranteed, paying for first class with IE dons't mean you can pay for a meal. The majority are Mark IV.

I can tell you from experience that the 1620 from Cork has a full restaurant service (big menu) several weeks this year (maybe not according to the schedule but in real life). It depends on the crew, if the right crew is there they have the big menu and do an excellent service. If there is a replacement crew the service is spotty, sometimes not even the small menu but just trolley.

In effect it seams to depend on what the company actually running the service is putting as staff on the train. Sometimes it's the full menu, sometimes it the small menu, sometimes it a trolley only. And than there are those days where the train has no water or no hot water or some other problem that makes it a trolley only service.

I always look for the crew, if it's the regulars than I know I get a good service, if I see enterprise people (like last Friday) it can be anything and if its people I never saw before it's usually bad.

It's more so guaranteed on the services I quoted and hit and miss on others.

end of the road

XPS_Zero wrote: »

If the country was facing actual bankruptcy (not the "were broke" sh1te in 2008 where we were not ACTUALLY broke, we just had a budget deficit that was far too high and needed to come down) I would not privatize CIE, much as I'd love to do it just to get a bottle of booze and a bowl of popcorn and watch SIPTUs reaction when they were told about it.

But I do think it would help if day to day management was competed for. I have personal experience of FC on Virgin and while I was not a fan of the carriages (I found the model they use far too confining and narrow compared to say the Enterprise or MIVs) the food was excellent quality. I know it's not inevitable that this be so, and it would WANT to be quality considering the frankly disgusting ticket price, it was much nicer and more varied.

the problem is, for the past 13/14 years we have had people from the privatized uk railway manage our railway and they have driven our railway into effectively an over-priced bus. i can't see any of the usual suspects who bid for rail contracts undoing that if the train operation was put out to tender. at least not off their own back.

XPS_Zero wrote: »

Hold on - are those other services ICRs? or are you saying you can pay for FC on the Cork route and get nothing for it except for nicer furniture and less riff raff?
Or is this just that the standard class passengers don't have the option to go to the restaurant car and sit down there for a meal?

the first class on the few ICRS that have it (it's actually called premier class) is effectively a slightly better standard class yes . a huge waste of money. an insult in fact.

Jamie2k9

Now that the same catering company on the Belfast service has taking over I am not sure if the offering has changed/improved in dinning car.
http://www.irishrail.ie/media/first_class_menu_21_09_17_final.pdf

Hugh Jampton

Del.Monte wrote: »

Back in the day - the 1980s - when things were really bad stock-wise, I remember that a full kitchen car (not a dining car) sometimes appeared on the Sligo train. It served nothing and was used by the unfortunate Board's servant to store his miserable stock. I kid you not, there was no trolley and he had to carry his sandwiches through the train on a wooden tray. And you tell young people today!

I see poor old Judgement Day even posted about it here seven years ago: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64606858&postcount=36

Whatever became of him?

To say nothing of Propellerhead, Crusty Burke, Dermo88, Corktina and DWCommuter. Bit of a mystery where they all went..

Yggr of Asgard

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Now that the same catering company on the Belfast service has taking over I am not sure if the offering has changed/improved in dinning car.
http://www.irishrail.ie/media/first_class_menu_21_09_17_final.pdf

That menu is only available on the services that are marked as dining car service (which is as posted above limited).

There is a small menu available on certain services which still has a decent selection of cold food and than there is the trolley only menu (sandwiches only).