Disposable Income Gone

hurler32

Looking at some of my younger colleagues and across industries generally it seems younger people starting out in Work have little to no disposable income.

When i started working i could afford to go out 2-3 nights a week now people joining the workforce doing similar roles can only afford to go out 2-3 times a month??

IN dublin Staff might start on more but with rent etc they'd need it , in Rural Ireland is it any wonder so many Pubs, Restaurants , shops etc have closed seeing as young people are only paid enough to exist, scavanging in Aldi-Lidl etc to make ends meet ??

The rich business owners- Bosses- Shareholders aren't contend to be Millionaires anymore they want to be Billionaires , hence those at the Bottom are a growing body of people just about existing??

Dravokivich

Does two question marks at the end of a statement mean I have to answer each twice?

Wheeliebin30

Im shocked people's have to shop on aldi/lidl.

The horrors of it joe in this day and age.

DivingDuck

People spend more on different forms of entertainment these days: Netflix, takeaways, drinking at home, gaming, etc. Pubs/clubs/cinema are no longer the only form of entertainment going.

I wouldn't describe shopping in Aldi/Lidl as "scavenging", though. I shop there (admittedly not exclusively; they don't always have the range I like), and I have reasonable disposable income. I just like to get value for money where possible.

Avatar MIA

Dravokivich wrote: »

Does two question marks at the end of a statement mean I have to answer each twice?

Dont you mean...

Dravokivich wrote: »

Does two question marks at the end of a statement mean I have to answer each twice?

Does two question marks at the end of a statement mean I have to answer each twice?

Beta Ray Bill

This is par for the course all over the country and indeed the world.

I'm just out of a long term relationship (had a kid and mortgage with the other person)
I ended up moving out, and I'm living back at home because I literally cannot afford to rent a place....

I'm 34 years old with a very good Job....

15 years ago I'd have been able to at least get somewhere to rent at a decent price.
It's pathetic.


There needs to be a world war to force the distribution of wealth away from the 1%'ers to the average Joe.
IE a massive destruction of wealth

Look at the US in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's. The quality of life they had at the time was the "American Dream", no one has that now.

Wheeliebin30

Mayne your should ask them not to spend 800 euro on their I phones while making the billionaires more billionairey.

Hector Savage

I love the "Specially Selected" brand in ALDIs ... delicious!

But yeah OP, there is a growing gap between rich and poor, and now 2 people have to work their ass off just to get a basic property - house prices in Dublin are going crazy again.

Look at San Francisco, I have heard stories of engineer couples - both on 100k + salaries, so a combined income of 200k+ - not being able to afford a mortgage.

It's coming here too.

Avatar MIA

grahambo wrote: »

The quality of life they had at the time was the "American Dream", no one has that now.

The clue is in the title. If you only watched the TV ads and fell for the marketing would you think that was the norm.

GLaDOS

I have disposable income because I shop in Aldi and don't spend a fortune in the pub every week.

Macy0161

I'd say we've a lost generation who are poor at managing money to a degree too, maybe because of the money around in their formative years, as well as issues like rent.

Buying out for breaks, buying out for lunches - I see a lot in my place burning through guts of €15 a day on coffees, scones, lunches and soft drinks just during office hours. In my day, we brought in lunches, made our own tea, and spent that money more productively on smokes and drink!

Beta Ray Bill

Avatar MIA wrote: »

The clue is in the title. If you only watched the TV ads and fell for the marketing would you think that was the norm.

Relative to the technology and value of money at the time, they had way better quality of life than they do now.

The_Kew_Tour

Hector Savage wrote: »

I love the "Specially Selected" brand in ALDIs ... delicious!

But yeah OP, there is a growing gap between rich and poor, and now 2 people have to work their ass off just to get a basic property - house prices in Dublin are going crazy again.

Look at San Francisco, I have heard stories of engineer couples - both on 100k + salaries, so a combined income of 200k+ - not being able to afford a mortgage.

It's coming here too.

What's average price of house there? $5million?

hurler32

The Base wage has really plummetted for anything Unskilled or low Skilled, that has many factors , greedy Owners at the top, Foreign workers prepared to work for a lot less etc

I worked as a labourer on a building site in the late 80s and went out 2/3 nights ever week and rented my own gaff....now a labourer ( probably not Irish ) might drink a few cans from Lidl one night a week in his room shared with 3 others afraid to turn on the heating...

We cant be far off the bottom , a couple of hundred super rich Billionaires , a cohort of Public Servants in the middle and the majority going around in Tracksuits with their Lidl Plastic bag....

or else never work, have a big family, lots of Dole, Petty crime & a few Compo Claims which for many Irish Cousins appears the best option

The_Kew_Tour

Macy0161 wrote: »

In my day, we brought in lunches, made our own tea, and spent that money more productively on smokes and drink!

Smoking and Drinking was Productive?

Beta Ray Bill

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

What's average price of house there? $5million?

Depends on where you want to live:

Linky

Rory28

grahambo wrote: »

Depends on where you want to live:

Linky

I'd buy one of them sh1-tholes if I could get one in Dublin for 55k. Size of the garden you get for it

893bet

grahambo wrote: »

This is par for the course all over the country and indeed the world.

I'm just out of a long term relationship (had a kid and mortgage with the other person)
I ended up moving out, and I'm living back at home because I literally cannot afford to rent a place....

I'm 34 years old with a very good Job....

15 years ago I'd have been able to at least get somewhere to rent at a decent price.
It's pathetic.


There needs to be a world war to force the distribution of wealth away from the 1%'ers to the average Joe.
IE a massive destruction of wealth

Look at the US in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's. The quality of life they had at the time was the "American Dream", no one has that now.

If in Ireland and earning min wage you are close to, if not in the top 1%.

thelad95

Definitely a generation poor at managing money and I’ll admit I’m the exact same.

A lot of twenty somethings would do the following pretty regularly:

Stay in bed too late so get a taxi to work, €15 gone
Buy ‘morning coffee’ which is actually some crock of milky heart disease in a Starbucks mug €5 gone
Lunch out €15 gone
Few drinks after work with workmates €10 gone
Just eat for dinner €15 gone

Add to that a few small purchases like chocolate bars or cans of soda and there could easily be 70 quid down the drain all on completely unnecessary expenditure.

Gunslinger92

thelad95 wrote: »

Definitely a generation poor at managing money and I’ll admit I’m the exact same.

A lot of twenty somethings would do the following pretty regularly:

Stay in bed too late so get a taxi to work, €15 gone
Buy ‘morning coffee’ which is actually some crock of milky heart disease in a Starbucks mug €5 gone
Lunch out €15 gone
Few drinks after work with workmates €10 gone
Just eat for dinner €15 gone

Add to that a few small purchases like chocolate bars or cans of soda and there could easily be 70 quid down the drain all on completely unnecessary expenditure.

I'm 25 and I'm horrified at that :pac: maybe I'm better with money than I credit myself for

frozenfrozen

Gunslinger92 wrote: »

I'm 25 and I'm horrified at that :pac: maybe I'm better with money than I credit myself for

I must be a fooking magician. 70 quid a day on ****e, fools and their money...

RasTa

Who spends €15 on lunch but only a tenner on after work pints?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

ahnowbrowncow

thelad95 wrote: »

Definitely a generation poor at managing money and I’ll admit I’m the exact same.

A lot of twenty somethings would do the following pretty regularly:

Stay in bed too late so get a taxi to work, €15 gone
Buy ‘morning coffee’ which is actually some crock of milky heart disease in a Starbucks mug €5 gone
Lunch out €15 gone
Few drinks after work with workmates €10 gone
Just eat for dinner €15 gone

Add to that a few small purchases like chocolate bars or cans of soda and there could easily be 70 quid down the drain all on completely unnecessary expenditure.

I highly doubt that most people that are thinking of getting a mortgage would be wasting their money like that.

People have higher expectations combined with alternative forms of social contact. Pre-internet you had to leave your house for all social contact outside the people you live with, now you log on any number of sites so removing some of the impetus to get dressed up and go out in the cold and buy overpriced drinks and pay for an Uber home. It's still done, but not as frequently.

Even as a student I had disposable income because I had a part time job and didn't drink/smoke. It's also about priorities. I don't think being able to scavenge in Tesco instead of Aldi is a particularly useful metric of disposable income either.

Dohnjoe

grahambo wrote: »

This is par for the course all over the country and indeed the world.

I'm just out of a long term relationship (had a kid and mortgage with the other person)
I ended up moving out, and I'm living back at home because I literally cannot afford to rent a place....

I'm 34 years old with a very good Job....

15 years ago I'd have been able to at least get somewhere to rent at a decent price.
It's pathetic.


There needs to be a world war to force the distribution of wealth away from the 1%'ers to the average Joe.
IE a massive destruction of wealth

Aggregate standards of living have risen dramatically. Global poverty halved in 30 years.

You have better rights, equality, infrastructure, healthcare, education, job choice/options/mobility, better quality goods/services, transport, safety than previous generations

Indeed property prices have increased but that is due to the market. More people are on dual income now, houses are generally larger, made of better materials, land is a scarce resource

Look at the US in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's. The quality of life they had at the time was the "American Dream", no one has that now.

Another myth. Cheaper property and cheaper education, apart from that just about every other metric was worse.

Lia_lia

A lot of it is to do with the cost of rent etc but some people are just genuinely awful with money. I have friends and colleagues (most have no kids and are in their late 20's early 30's) that would be earning 40K+ and I can't believe the way spend their money on various things.

Smartphones that cost €800+, lots of online clothes shopping, holidays booked through travel agents where they could get them cheaper by booking online, Sky TV, eating out and getting take-aways most days of the week, brand new cars on PCP...and the list goes on. Fair enough if you can afford these things and still have money left over to save. But the people I know spend all this money, save absolutely none of it and usually have a few loans. Then they give out about the cost of living, the government and never being able to get a mortgage.

Richard Hillman

This is what happens when you introduce Communism through the back door.

seamus

I don't think anecdotes have any merit. I might have been out a couple of times a week when I started working, but I wasn't exactly throwing cash around. It would generally involve pre-drinking enough to get you warmed up and then another few quid in the pub and a bus home. Or maybe a taxi if there were enough of you to make it worth it.

The notion that young people are scavenging in Lidl & Aldi because the modern world has screwed them over is fanciful nonsense. Young people have never been flush with cash, they've always been the ones sharing flats, wearing cheap clothes, drinking cheap booze and sneaking into things without paying.

The US is fncked because decades of libertarian economics has removed the middle class, but that's a different country. The same hasn't occurred here.

somefeen

Lia_lia wrote: »

A lot of it is to do with the cost of rent etc but some people are just genuinely awful with money. I have friends and colleagues (most have no kids and are in their late 20's early 30's) that would be earning 40K+ and I can't believe the way spend their money on various things.

Smartphones that cost €800+, lots of online clothes shopping, holidays booked through travel agents where they could get them cheaper by booking online, Sky TV, eating out and getting take-aways most days of the week, brand new cars on PCP...and the list goes on. Fair enough if you can afford these things and still have money left over to save. But the people I know spend all this money, save absolutely none of it and usually have a few loans. Then they give out about the cost of living, the government and never being able to get a mortgage.

I think alot if this is actually a hang up of coming from a poorer background. If you suddenly have money when you never had it before your mentality towards it is completely warped. My first 2 years out of college I burned money at a disgraceful rate. Had a wake up call eventually when I ran out of money a week before my next payday. It was like old times again so I was forced to change my way of seeing money.

They need to teach more about money management in schools I reckon.

Grayson

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Except cash buyers make up the biggest single segment of buyers. Most of them aren't ordinary citizens, they're hedgefunds buying property here.

When nama sold off it's portfolio it was businesses like hedgefunds that bought them.

DivingDuck

somefeen wrote: »

They need to teach more about money management in schools I reckon.

This should be a compulsory subject given the same weight as Literacy and Maths.

Budgeting, basic household maintenance, simple nutrition, etc. Everyone should know how to feed themselves, do a wash, forecast expenditure and the like. It's absolutely shocking that we don't consider these things to be worthwhile enough to teach to our children except via optional subjects that aren't sufficiently practical a lot of the time.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Aspire to be like the business owners instead of begrudging them.

Many of them also started out on the bottom rung.


Success rarely comes over night, years of graft, dedication and calculated risk taking are involved.

server down

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Mayne your should ask them not to spend 800 euro on their I phones while making the billionaires more billionairey.

Nonsense argument. The iPhone and other smart phones probably save money as people don’t need to buy music but instead stream it, buy a camera, buy dvds but instead Netflix (which is the price of a dvd per month), no need for alarm clocks, gps systems etc.

That’s not where disposable income is going.

server down

893bet wrote: »

If in Ireland and earning min wage you are close to, if not in the top 1%.

Those stats are way out of date.

Dohnjoe

DivingDuck wrote: »

This should be a compulsory subject given the same weight as Literacy and Maths.

Budgeting, basic household maintenance, simple nutrition, etc. Everyone should know how to feed themselves, do a wash, forecast expenditure and the like. It's absolutely shocking that we don't consider these things to be worthwhile enough to teach to our children except via optional subjects that aren't sufficiently practical a lot of the time.

And maybe a little more emphasis on history and economics - to give people some actual perspective and avoid threads like this

Growing up in the eighties it was rust-bucket cars, second hand clothes, crap roads, crap healthcare, no jobs, low quality food/goods on the shelves, smog, holidays always involved a ferry and a tent, getting a TV was a big deal, etc, etc.. but according to some it's "much harder" now

server down

frozenfrozen wrote: »

I must be a fooking magician. 70 quid a day on ****e, fools and their money...

Of course nobody does that. A taxi everyday? Going out every day? A takeaway everyday?

Even lunch every day or coffee every day is unusual.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

server down

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Another myth. Cheaper property and cheaper education, apart from that just about every other metric was worse.

Not true st all. I’ll post an Elizabeth warren video on just how hollowed out the American “middle class” is when I find it.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

somefeen

server down wrote: »

Nonsense argument. The iPhone and other smart phones probably save money as people don’t need to buy music but instead stream it, buy a camera, buy dvds but instead Netflix (which is the price of a dvd per month), no need for alarm clocks, gps systems etc.

That’s not where disposable income is going.

To be fair, I can do all that on a phone I bought for 150 two years ago. I think he means people that spend 800 or more a year on a new phone. That's hardly saving money.

DivingDuck

Dohnjoe wrote: »

And maybe a little more emphasis on history and economics - to give people some actual perspective and avoid threads like this

Growing up in the eighties it was rust-bucket cars, second hand clothes, crap roads, crap healthcare, no jobs, low quality food/goods on the shelves, smog, holidays always involved a ferry and a tent, getting a TV was a big deal, etc, etc.. but according to some it's "much harder" now

I remember being excited about going to McDonalds when I was a child. McDonalds! Because it was a bi-annual activity, at best. The concept of takeaways multiple times a week or month would have blown my tiny mind. You might get to stop into the local chippy once every couple of weeks if you were lucky.

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with the fact that young people today have a more convenient lifestyle— they should. We did; our parents had a much harder time of it compared to those of us now in our thirties and forties. My parents and their siblings have told me horror stories of a lifestyle genuinely unimaginable to children today: never mind no iphones, there were no house phones. In some cases, no running water or electric!

Every generation must have it easier than the one before. That's what progress means. The current generation have plenty of challenges we didn't face: the housing crisis, the disappearance of the "forever" job, social media stress, etc. But they've certainly got plenty of benefits we'd never have imagined. To say that because the current generation have different challenges to us doesn't mean they have more.

server down

draiochtanois wrote: »

You have no idea how much engineers in San Francisco make.

Typically total compensation for an engineer (hardware or software) would start at $160,000 cash bonus of $20,000 - $50,000 and RSU (shares) of $100,000 over 4 years

Doesn’t mean they can afford a mortgage. That’s the problem. Those salaries should be immense. Instead it’s all going up the chain on rent. Trickle down, flow up.

server down

somefeen wrote: »

To be fair, I can do all that on a phone I bought for 150 two years ago. I think he means people that spend 800 or more a year on a new phone. That's hardly saving money.

Every year isn’t the average though. Anyway it’s not a significant reason for lack of disposable income.

(In fact it’s probably the case that people spend less on phones now then they did in the 80’s).

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Idbatterim

After the Celtic Tiger building boom, the Irish government drove up the cost of constructing new housing with a slew of new building regulations, to the point where it now costs twice as much per square meter to build residential housing in Ireland as it does in Germany. The government also limited how much people can borrow on mortgages, with new restrictions designed to protect the banks

the cost of construction here is ridiculous and something that needs to be addressed. What does not need to be addressed is allowing the sheep to borrow more money that simply drives prices higher... Its designed to protect the banks and the people!

Mrs OBumble

Going out 3 times a week isn't normal OP.

When I started work I heard a very good phrase regarding "pints with the boys" every night: notice that the boss doesn't do it. Thats why the boss is the boss and the boys are just the boys.

valoren

You get what you focus on.

For example, I'm interested in watches. I browsed dedicated sites daily a few years ago. Guess what? I suddenly had a collection of watches as I was focused on it and spent money on watches I liked on those sites. I got what I focused on. I lost interest, stopped the daily visit and I haven't spent a cent on a watch since. That principle works in every interest and hobby.

If you want to focus on increasing disposable income then you'd focus on making a budget. You'd watch you're outgoings carefully, you'd cut down on unnecessary bills, you curtail instant gratification and you'd then have more disposable income.
But people don't do that obviously. They want disposable income anyway. As the older generations would say; you've got to cut your coat according to your cloth. Certain expenses can't be cut obviously but everything you spend your money on is subjective.

And guess what? Businesses and the billionaires focus on exactly that.

How is it that so few manage to acquire most of the wealth? Because they knew how. Is it fair to condemn someone for achieving something because they knew how? Is it fair to take back from those who succeeded, when it's earned fairly and give it back to people who can't or won't succeed? My guess is it would find it's way back in no time and the cycle could be repeated.

whisky_galore

DivingDuck wrote: »

This should be a compulsory subject given the same weight as Literacy and Maths.

Budgeting, basic household maintenance, simple nutrition, etc. Everyone should know how to feed themselves, do a wash, forecast expenditure and the like. It's absolutely shocking that we don't consider these things to be worthwhile enough to teach to our children except via optional subjects that aren't sufficiently practical a lot of the time.

Parents were supposed to impart this, why aren't they doing that now?

Plus all of the above is now easily found with the smartphone that almost everyone has in the palm of their hand, there really is no excuse.

server down

valoren wrote: »

You get what you focus on.

For example, I'm interested in watches. I browsed dedicated sites daily a few years ago. Guess what? I suddenly had a collection of watches as I was focused on it and spent money on watches I liked on those sites. I got what I focused on. I lost interest, stopped the daily visit and I haven't spent a cent on a watch since. That principle works in every interest and hobby.

If you want to focus on increasing disposable income then you'd focus on making a budget. You'd watch you're outgoings carefully, you'd cut down on unnecessary bills, you curtail instant gratification and you'd then have more disposable income.
But people don't do that obviously. They want disposable income anyway. As the older generations would say; you've got to cut your coat according to your cloth. Certain expenses can't be cut obviously but everything you spend your money on is subjective.

It’s amazing all the mind contortions people have to go through to ignore the elephant in the room - rent.

Maybe it’s because a lot of Dubliners don’t rent.

Nothing you says there increases disposable or discretionary income. It just budgets it.

valoren

server down wrote: »

It’s amazing all the mind contortions people have to go through to ignore the elephant in the room - rent.

Maybe it’s because a lot of Dubliners don’t rent.

Nothing you says there increases disposable or discretionary income. It just budgets it.

So the OP's point is that their income should be higher than it is? Because it is only being kept and hoarded by the 1% to make themselves wealthier and they should instead just distribute it back....?

So they can then spend the increase in income in M&S and can no longer scavenge like vermin in Aldi?