Disposable Income Gone

Dohnjoe

server down wrote: »

It’s amazing all the mind contortions people have to go through to ignore the elephant in the room - rent.

Maybe it’s because a lot of Dubliners don’t rent.

Nothing you says there increases disposable or discretionary income. It just budgets it.

Based on the market

People are renting out properties for those prices because people are taking them. People are selling properties for those prices because people are buying them

We spend a higher proportion of our income on rent/property - we also spend proportionately less elsewhere.

e.g. when I was growing up, a luxury car was a rarity - now they are everywhere.

Despite spending relatively more on rent/property we are still better off than we were a generation or more ago.

server down

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Based on the market

People are renting out properties for those prices because people are taking them. People are selling properties for those prices because people are buying them

There is literally no wisdom in just repeating free market mantras. People really don’t want to be paying the private rent they are paying but the alternative is homelessness.

We spend a higher proportion of our income on rent/property - we also spend proportionately less elsewhere.

e.g. when I was growing up, a luxury car was a rarity - now they are everywhere.

That’s a contradiction.

Despite spending relatively more on rent/property we are still better off than we were a generation or more ago.

The op thinks that’s not true of renters in Dublin - I agree.

server down

valoren wrote: »

So the OP's point is that their income should be higher than it is? Because it is only being kept and hoarded by the 1% to make themselves wealthier and they should instead just distribute it back....?

So they can then spend the increase in income in M&S and can no longer scavenge like vermin in Aldi?

The op said he thinks disposable income is lower for people in their twenties. He means discretionary. Disposable is income post tax. Discretionary is income post tax and essentials - rent, heating, food (within reason) , electricity etc.

It doesn’t matter what you do with that discretionary income. Being frugal - while necessary - doesn’t give you more discretionary income, the reverse logics applies. Less discretionary income leads to more frugality. You still have the same discretionary income though.

Dohnjoe

server down wrote: »

There is literally no wisdom in just repeating free market mantras. People really don’t want to be paying the private rent they are paying but the alternative is homelessness.

???

We'd all rather pay less - what is your point here? Complaining about how much Irish people are charging for rent or you are proposing workable alternatives?

That’s a contradiction.

We are spending a lower proportion of our income on e.g. food that we used to in the past. No contradiction at all. In some areas we are spending relatively more, in others we are spending relatively less.

jimmycrackcorm

hurler32 wrote:

Looking at some of my younger colleagues and across industries generally it seems younger people starting out in Work have little to no disposable income.

What's the whinging about? It was the same for me when I started working 30 years ago.

I just never imagined such a thing as avocado on toast then so I never realised how bad it was.

thelad95

thelad95 wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

350 quid a week on that, nice!

Permabear wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Huge amount of conflating going on there tbh.
The "new standards" argument is a complete distraction, not by you specifically. In Eindhoven there are 3 bed houses for under 300k within a few km of the city centre proper. The government even pays towards them in some cases. They're of a much, much higher quality than what's built under the "too hard standards" set here.

Stone Deaf 4evr

Funnily enough, I'm 38, and find that managing the disposable income has become a little bit more difficult, and I feel a degree of it has come as part of the drive to be a 'cashless society'.

I remember in my first part time job while I was in college, I got about 120 pounds cash in an envelope and it had to do me for everything, anytime I opened my wallet, it was a instant reminder of how much I had left between now and payday.

The increase use of contactless, apple & android pay, revolut, paypal, takes a lot of the immediate awareness away from people. Online banking is grand, but its not unusual to log on of a monday morning and see a lash of small charges from whatever odds and ends were got over the weekend. Its very easy to fritter it away in small, seemingly innocuous transactions, and then be surprised when you grab the calculator and add it all up.

Idbatterim

The government even pays towards them in some cases. They're of a much, much higher quality than what's built under the "too hard standards" set here.

in terms of "standards" I am referring to apartments. This dual aspect and over the top lift ratio massively increases prices. These are deemed of so important, but obviously they dont give a **** about sound proofing etc in apartments!

storker

Having a car eats into disposable income in a big way, never more so than when someone's paying off a car loan. When you lump tax, insurance and fuel onto it, your disposable income starts to look like a game of Pac-Man.

In relation to cars, and phones, and holidays (hen/stag nights abroad!!!), a lot of people are pushing themselves close to the edge.

I do have sympathy, however, for those hammered by high house prices and rents, and I don;t think shrugging shoulders and saying "Oh well, it's the market, what can you do?" is really good enough.

DivingDuck

whisky_galore wrote: »

Parents were supposed to impart this, why aren't they doing that now?

Plus all of the above is now easily found with the smartphone that almost everyone has in the palm of their hand, there really is no excuse.

They don't know themselves? They're too busy? They can't be arsed? All of the above? You could say the same about everything we teach in school: you can learn maths and science and other languages through an app, so why do we bother teaching them?

If kids aren't taught these skills —and more importantly the value of these skills— when they're young, they will never prioritize them. A few people here and there will seek to better themselves, but on the whole, the majority of people need to be exposed to routines and concepts from an early age to internalize them. Any concepts. Kids that grow up in a house watching their parents struggle to pay every bill will themselves struggle not to end up the same way.

Of course parents should be teaching their children these things, but the obvious reality is that they're not, or we wouldn't have the issues we do. IMO, taking a few hours a week away from History, Geography, PE, Religion, etc. and devoting them to things like Nutrition, Personal Budgeting, Understanding Taxes & Pensions, and Home Maintenance would be well worth doing, and far more useful to both society and the individual.

The amount of information I learned in school which I've had zero reason to call upon since the day I put down my pen at the end of the Junior/Leaving Cert could quite literally fill books. I can look up how a glacier forms a valley on Wiki in two minutes if I want or need to know, but getting kids to learn the importance of planning and taking care of themselves, today and for the future, isn't something that can easily be taught by a website.

Dohnjoe

storker wrote: »

I do have sympathy, however, for those hammered by high house prices and rents, and I don;t think shrugging shoulders and saying "Oh well, it's the market, what can you do?" is really good enough.

What workable solutions do you propose?

whisky_galore

Dohnjoe wrote: »

What workable solutions do you propose?

I don't think there is any solution, so long as people f*ck each other over and milk the system to their own advantage which is the natural order of things here. Too many vested interests at play.

storker

Dohnjoe wrote: »

What workable solutions do you propose?

I don't know. It's not my area of expertise. But I don't need to be a qualified mechanic to know when my car isn't running properly either. I do know, though, that it wasn't always this bad. I also know that human beings have solved seemingly-insurmountable problems before. We put men on the moon, we have a telescope in space than can look at galaxies unimaginable distances away, we've cured countless diseases and can take organs from a dead body and use them to save someone's life, we've invented a communications system that can link people in difference continents in a fraction of a second.

I refuse to believe that the housing problem can't be solved either, in such a way as it actually works for...call me crazy...those who actually live in the houses. Other countries have managed this, and if we can't it must surely be because the people who can change it don't want to, and most people who aren't directly affected don't care.

whisky_galore

storker wrote: »

Other countries have managed this, and if we can't it must surely be because the people who can change it don't want to, and most people who aren't directly affected don't care.

That's it, in nutshell.

We'll turn out and protest water charges and abortion alright....how many housing crisis marches have we seen??

A lot of weeping and gnashing of teeth in the media, and how it's an awful shame, and that's about it.

Hollister11

server down wrote: »

Nonsense argument. The iPhone and other smart phones probably save money as people don’t need to buy music but instead stream it.

That’s not where disposable income is going.

Do they **** save money. Top of the range phones cost the guts of a grand.

I'm 21, and unless I get a top smart phone through work, I will never buy one. They are a waste of money.

I currently have a one plus 2. It cost me €305, and I have it almost 2 years. I'll probably get a other 18 months out of it functioning pretty well.

My next phone will be an average phone costing similar money.

Stone Deaf 4evr

whisky_galore wrote: »

That's it, in nutshell.

We'll turn out and protest water charges and abortion alright....how many housing crisis marches have we seen??

A lot of weeping and gnashing of teeth in the media, and how it's an awful shame, and that's about it.

If we started turfing out a few lads like the chap who sued for falling on the tiles outside of his state provided house, they wouldn't be long rallying the government to sort out the housing crisis. Those type of people dream big, and achieve the inconcievable.

whisky_galore

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

If we started turfing out a few lads like the chap who sued for falling on the tiles outside of his state provided house, they wouldn't be long rallying the government to sort out the housing crisis. Those type of people dream big, and achieve the inconcievable.

I'm not familiar with that incident, but as we already know, chancing your arm/acting the cute hoor goes across all social strands here, to the detriment of society as a whole. I don't think that is one national trait that can be weeded out very easily.

Shenshen

whisky_galore wrote: »

Parents were supposed to impart this, why aren't they doing that now?

Plus all of the above is now easily found with the smartphone that almost everyone has in the palm of their hand, there really is no excuse.

Well, who was/is teaching the parents?
It's not like knowledge about budgeting and prudent financial behaviour suddenly miraculously imprints on the brain of a person just because they had offspring.
Personal finances and economics are getting more and more complicated, with more and more silly things out there you could lose your money on, and we have to start somewhere with educating people. Why not start in schools, where you have easy access to a captive audience?

storker

Shenshen wrote: »

Well, who was/is teaching the parents?
It's not like knowledge about budgeting and prudent financial behaviour suddenly miraculously imprints on the brain of a person just because they had offspring.
Personal finances and economics are getting more and more complicated, with more and more silly things out there you could lose your money on, and we have to start somewhere with educating people. Why not start in schools, where you have easy access to a captive audience?

Agreed. I don't believe in leaving it all to the schools, but saying "let the parents teach it" assumes that the parents actually know what they're talking about. Let's now forget that the extent of many of peoples' knowledge about such matters amounts to something they heard the other night down the pub or read somewhere on the Internet.

Dohnjoe

storker wrote: »

I don't know. It's not my area of expertise. But I don't need to be a qualified mechanic to know when my car isn't running properly either. I do know, though, that it wasn't always this bad. I also know that human beings have solved seemingly-insurmountable problems before. We put men on the moon, we have a telescope in space than can look at galaxies unimaginable distances away, we've cured countless diseases and can take organs from a dead body and use them to save someone's life, we've invented a communications system that can link people in difference continents in a fraction of a second.

I refuse to believe that the housing problem can't be solved either, in such a way as it actually works for...call me crazy...those who actually live in the houses. Other countries have managed this, and if we can't it must surely be because the people who can change it don't want to, and most people who aren't directly affected don't care.

Fair enough - but the reality is there is little the govt can do that they aren't already doing

Taxing and subsidising just shifts the burden around slightly. At the end of the day the housing market is largely up to us. People are buying and renting the properties and people are selling and renting out the properties.

The prices are high - but we've pushed them there.

BrokenArrows

grahambo wrote: »

This is par for the course all over the country and indeed the world.

I'm just out of a long term relationship (had a kid and mortgage with the other person)
I ended up moving out, and I'm living back at home because I literally cannot afford to rent a place....

I'm 34 years old with a very good Job....

15 years ago I'd have been able to at least get somewhere to rent at a decent price.
It's pathetic.


There needs to be a world war to force the distribution of wealth away from the 1%'ers to the average Joe.
IE a massive destruction of wealth

Look at the US in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's. The quality of life they had at the time was the "American Dream", no one has that now.

Its not the 1%ers who are screwing you. Its your other half!
I assume she is still in the house? I suggested you sell that house, give her 1/2 the profits and tell her where to go.
If she gets a place to live then so should you.
You need to move back into that house ASAP. If she doesnt like it then she has every right to leave and find her own place.

nice_guy80

using cards to tap for everything doesn't help

SCOOP 64

Hollister11 wrote: »

Do they **** save money. Top of the range phones cost the guts of a grand.

I'm 21, and unless I get a top smart phone through work, I will never buy one. They are a waste of money.

I currently have a one plus 2. It cost me €305, and I have it almost 2 years. I'll probably get a other 18 months out of it functioning pretty well.

My next phone will be an average phone costing similar money.

Wow ,even €305 on a phone seems expensive to me then again i am a Aldi/Lidl shopper.

The J Stands for Jay

Lia_lia wrote: »

A lot of it is to do with the cost of rent etc but some people are just genuinely awful with money. I have friends and colleagues (most have no kids and are in their late 20's early 30's) that would be earning 40K+ and I can't believe the way spend their money on various things.

Smartphones that cost €800+, lots of online clothes shopping, holidays booked through travel agents where they could get them cheaper by booking online, Sky TV, eating out and getting take-aways most days of the week, brand new cars on PCP...and the list goes on. Fair enough if you can afford these things and still have money left over to save. But the people I know spend all this money, save absolutely none of it and usually have a few loans. Then they give out about the cost of living, the government and never being able to get a mortgage.

Ah come on now, people using travel agents? Pull the other one.

hurler32

At the end of the day ...a Labourer on a building site in Munster earned circa 300 punts 381 Euro a week in 1987,
For the Same work now a Labourer gets 480 Euro..... i can guarantee you that 381 in 1987 bought a huge amount more than todays 480.

Its the same across numerous industries , Factory Workers, Airline Staff, Shop Workers, Bank officials all used earn a decent wage to live a reasonable standard of living , now many of them are merely existing ...scavenging in LIdl...most cant afford to go to Aldi not to mind M&S...

Meanwhile the Rich are billionaires instead of Millionaires...could the Billionaires not pay their employees a small bit more ?

DivingDuck

McGaggs wrote: »

Ah come on now, people using travel agents? Pull the other one.

They're still in business, aren't they?

Shenshen

hurler32 wrote: »

At the end of the day ...a Labourer on a building site in Munster earned circa 300 punts 381 Euro a week in 1987,
For the Same work now a Labourer gets 480 Euro..... i can guarantee you that 381 in 1987 bought a huge amount more than todays 480.

Its the same across numerous industries , Factory Workers, Airline Staff, Shop Workers, Bank officials all used earn a decent wage to live a reasonable standard of living , now many of them are merely existing ...scavenging in LIdl...most cant afford to go to Aldi not to mind M&S...

Meanwhile the Rich are billionaires instead of Millionaires...could the Billionaires not pay their employees a small bit more ?

And yet, in 1987 a labourer on a building site would not have considered taking himself and the family on a holiday in Southern France or Florida, would he?
Nevermind the money for the 50' telly, the new phone every 2 years, etc.

Factory workers and airline staff earn less in comparison so your building site labourer can afford all this.
Yes, it is a race to the bottom. But it's not orchestrated by the guys on top, but by every one who decides to fly Ryanair rather than Aerlingus cause it's cheaper, everyone buying in Penneys, in Aldi and Lidl, etc.

It's a nice warm feeling giving out about how little others earn, but check your own spending habits and see how much YOU actually pay for their labour.

The J Stands for Jay

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

Funnily enough, I'm 38, and find that managing the disposable income has become a little bit more difficult, and I feel a degree of it has come as part of the drive to be a 'cashless society'.

I remember in my first part time job while I was in college, I got about 120 pounds cash in an envelope and it had to do me for everything, anytime I opened my wallet, it was a instant reminder of how much I had left between now and payday.

The increase use of contactless, apple & android pay, revolut, paypal, takes a lot of the immediate awareness away from people. Online banking is grand, but its not unusual to log on of a monday morning and see a lash of small charges from whatever odds and ends were got over the weekend. Its very easy to fritter it away in small, seemingly innocuous transactions, and then be surprised when you grab the calculator and add it all up.

I don't get this attitude. I avoid having cash because it just disappears without trace. Using cards hurts me straight away. I can see my bank balance instantly dropping, reminding me how far away payday is.

Stheno

McGaggs wrote: »

I don't get this attitude. I avoid having cash because it just disappears without trace. Using cards hurts me straight away. I can see my bank balance instantly dropping, reminding me how far away payday is.

It can take several days for some transactions to show up on my online banking

Dohnjoe

Average disposable income after tax (2014)

Ranked 18th in the world (and that includes tax havens and municipalities like Jersey, Bermuda, Caymen Islands, Monaco, etc)

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Cost-of-living/Average-monthly-disposable-salary/After-tax

Second Yellow

The numbers of people in the group described by OP is growing year on year and in the future even people well into well-paid careers will be in the same position. Everybody is getting squeezed. In the ~12 years since I graduated, rent where I live has tripled. Wages have not tripled.

The J Stands for Jay

DivingDuck wrote: »

They're still in business, aren't they?

Are they? I haven't noticed any in years.

The J Stands for Jay

Stheno wrote: »

It can take several days for some transactions to show up on my online banking

Time to switch banks. My app usually buzzes my phone before I've got the card back in my wallet.

server down

Hollister11 wrote: »

Do they **** save money. Top of the range phones cost the guts of a grand.

I'm 21, and unless I get a top smart phone through work, I will never buy one. They are a waste of money.

I currently have a one plus 2. It cost me €305, and I have it almost 2 years. I'll probably get a other 18 months out of it functioning pretty well.

My next phone will be an average phone costing similar money.

You didn’t even begin to understand my argument on how they save money. It’s all trivial anyway compared to rent.

server down

Dohnjoe wrote: »

???

We'd all rather pay less - what is your point here? Complaining about how much Irish people are charging for rent or you are proposing workable alternatives?

I’m saying that rent eats into discretionary income. An empirical fact. You’re saying. Derp free market. As for the solution. Build more houses.

We are spending a lower proportion of our income on e.g. food that we used to in the past. No contradiction at all. In some areas we are spending relatively more, in others we are spending relatively less.

That wasn’t what you said. You said we are paying more rent and also buying bigger cars. Or some I’ll thought out nonsense.

As usual these threads move from economics to home economics. However as I said discretionary income isn’t changed by how you spend it.

mdmix

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Average disposable income after tax (2014)

Ranked 18th in the world (and that includes tax havens and municipalities like Jersey, Bermuda, Caymen Islands, Monaco, etc)

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Cost-of-living/Average-monthly-disposable-salary/After-tax

this is based on a 2014 survey. the climate in Ireland has dramatically shifted since due to rising cost of buying or renting property, rising health insurance costs, electricity, gas etc.

prices may well be rising in other countries but unlikely at the same rate.

server down

Shenshen wrote: »

And yet, in 1987 a labourer on a building site would not have considered taking himself and the family on a holiday in Southern France or Florida, would he?
Nevermind the money for the 50' telly, the new phone every 2 years, etc.

The other argument that bugs me is the 50” telly. I had a CRT until a month ago but I bought a 49” TV with a 6 year guarantee for 460. That’s 6€ a month if I get rid after the guarantee runs out.

Factory workers and airline staff earn less in comparison so your building site labourer can afford all this.
Yes, it is a race to the bottom. But it's not orchestrated by the guys on top, but by every one who decides to fly Ryanair rather than Aerlingus cause it's cheaper, everyone buying in Penneys, in Aldi and Lidl, etc.

It's a nice warm feeling giving out about how little others earn, but check your own spending habits and see how much YOU actually pay for their labour.

There’s a kernel of truth there, with everybody looking for a deal and buying on amazon etc there’s less money flowing around.

DivingDuck

McGaggs wrote: »

Are they? I haven't noticed any in years.

Two in the Square. One in Dundrum. Three in town. Some others scattered around. Then there are the non-budget types used by higher end customers. They're not as popular as they once were, but they're still in business.

r93kaey5p2izun

I don't recognise this picture of people hemorrhaging money on lunches, coffee, the latest iphone and nights out at all. Everyone around me is living at home or housesharing in their 30s, afraid to turn on the heat, eating last night's dinner for lunch and nights out are a rarity. I might know one person who gets away for a week in any given year, cars are few and far between and ten years old. The sharp decline in disposable income is blatantly obvious the past 5-7 years.

Ronaldinho

For a long time, each successive generation had it better than the last. That pattern has pretty much drawn to an end.

If money or material wealth is what makes you happy then you better work very hard and/or smartly to get to where you want to be. There's only so many high paying jobs out there.

In years passed there was a lot more wage inflation across sectors and we had the low cost airlines come along together with huge technological change, all of which helped to raise standards of living very quickly.

We live in a very consumer driven society - there's no getting away from it but people need to have realistic expectations for what they can afford. I think the nation on average has become a bit snobby, demanding, entitled. I think a lot of people take way too much for granted and don't realise how good they have it.

The OP speaking of 'scavenging in Lidl' is pretty telling.

Rubberchikken

City rental and purchase prices are crazy. I realise there are cheaper accommodation options outside these areas but probably inconvenient to most.
It's not 'scavenging' to shop in Aldi or Lidl.i don't buy much in them but what I get is fine. Lots of people do a weekly shop there and don't look bad for it.

There's always been rich. No shame in it. If people want disposable income maybe they need to spend less on their type of car. Insisting on a new one on credit isn't clever. Still wasting money on guy rot coffee from garages isn't clever. I could go on but I've work to get to. Allows me my disposable income.

DivingDuck

Alaia Incalculable Butcher wrote: »

I don't recognise this picture of people hemorrhaging money on lunches, coffee, the latest iphone and nights out at all. Everyone around me is living at home or housesharing in their 30s, afraid to turn on the heat, eating last night's dinner for lunch and nights out are a rarity. I might know one person who gets away for a week in any given year, cars are few and far between and ten years old. The sharp decline in disposable income is blatantly obvious the past 5-7 years.

The three "most broke" people I know are constantly buying crap. Online, offline, everywhere. Clothes, convenience food, nights out, convenience travel, beauty products, runners, novelty t-shirts, tech accessories— different things each. One person's living with family, the other two with a roommate.

None of it is expensive— every item would be sub €50, a lot of it under €20. But just €50 a week on rubbish is €2,600 a year. They constantly complain about how they have "no money" and they are "so poor" but all of these purchases are 1) not essential, and 2) poorly budgeted/planned. They don't seek deals, they don't consider alternatives, they just buy everything they see that they want if the money is available to them in that moment.

Are these folks entitled to do that? Absolutely, it's their cash— but the problem isn't lack of money, it's lack of impulse control.

Maybe there is less disposable income these days, but there has also been a huge shift away from saving/responsible purchasing and towards regularly impulse buying cheap rubbish for a quick serotonin hit.

mdmix

DivingDuck wrote: »

The three "most broke" people I know are constantly buying crap. Online, offline, everywhere. Clothes, convenience food, nights out, convenience travel, beauty products, runners, novelty t-shirts, tech accessories— different things each. One person's living with family, the other two with a roommate.

None of it is expensive— every item would be sub €50, a lot of it under €20. But just €50 a week on rubbish is €2,600 a year.

i get what your saying. they should save that money instead, and in just 10 short years they could have enough for half the deposit for a mortgage! wouldn't be enough for one of those "affordable houses" that Leo was telling us about, maybe something in Leitrim though.

deathtocaptcha

Rubberchikken wrote: »

City rental and purchase prices are crazy. I realise there are cheaper accommodation options outside these areas but probably inconvenient to most.
It's not 'scavenging' to shop in Aldi or Lidl.i don't buy much in them but what I get is fine. Lots of people do a weekly shop there and don't look bad for it.

There's always been rich. No shame in it. If people want disposable income maybe they need to spend less on their type of car. Insisting on a new one on credit isn't clever. Still wasting money on guy rot coffee from garages isn't clever. I could go on but I've work to get to. Allows me my disposable income.

In general I agree with the 'stop whinging, be frugal and don't borrow money to buy shiny things' philosophy but there's only so far that goes...

Not buying a cup of coffee every day isn't going to magically turn you in to a millionaire yet it's the sort of exaggerated message that is sent out by finance experts.

The reality is if you're struggling to gather a deposit on a house and have reached your peak in terms of earning potential, then there's not much you can do. All you can try to do is live within your means and spend wisely, saving where possible - but for a lot of people even doing that won't result in them ever owning a home so we shouldn't give them false hope by saying that if you make cutbacks and adjust your lifestyle you'll suddenly be able to buy a house and live a lifestyle you always wanted in a few years.

Most people earn under €30k/year yet the average 3 bed semi in Dublin is €400k... they'll get a mortgage for €105k assuming they have a €40k deposit. Buying a cheaper car, quitting coffee, making your own lunch etc... is all well and good but let's face it, it isn't going to result in you saving €255k needed to buy your own home...

Shenshen

server down wrote: »

The other argument that bugs me is the 50” telly. I had a CRT until a month ago but I bought a 49” TV with a 6 year guarantee for 460. That’s 6€ a month if I get rid after the guarantee runs out.



There’s a kernel of truth there, with everybody looking for a deal and buying on amazon etc there’s less money flowing around.

That is exactly what I'm talking about. We get more and more consumer goods for less and less money.
Someone pointed out earlier that in the 60s, people on average spent around 20% of their income on food. Today, that's come down to less than 6% (figures are from the US, but the trend is the same throughout the Western world).
And one of the reasons we're spending less is because labour costs are being squeezed dramatically. The electronic goods are being produced for a pitance in Asia, the fruit and veg are harvested by migrant workers, you name it.

I think it's worth considering that it's our very own spending habits that contribute significantly to the much-quoted wage-squeeze and race to the bottom.

There is a lot of poor impulse control behind some peoples self imposed poverty. I knew someone who had the same job I had, he was full time and it was his proper job, I was part time and it was a student job. He spent every penny as soon as his pay came in, on stupid impulse buys that the novelty wore off almost immediately, take-out and eating out ever meal, nights out where he'd subsidise his unemployed friends. He never had a penny and most bizarrely, since it was staring him in the face, he couldn't figure out why. As far as he was concerned everyone lived like he did.

He lived at home and didn't drive, so he was never going to starve or be homeless, he just hadn't a clue how to keep track of his spending.

On part time hours I paid all my bills, ran a car, and was able to save towards fees and expenses, but I was aware of where every single penny went. I didn't starve or freeze either, I had a pretty nice lifestyle compared to most because I spent it where it mattered.

ToddyDoody

hurler32 wrote: »

seeing as young people are only paid enough to exist, scavanging in Aldi-Lidl etc to make ends meet ??

The rich business owners- Bosses- Shareholders aren't contend to be Millionaires anymore they want to be Billionaires , hence those at the Bottom are a growing body of people just about existing??

The key to having no money is to just do nothing. Don't even leave the house.

wingsof daun

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You have better rights, equality, infrastructure, healthcare, education, job choice/options/mobility, better quality goods/services, transport, safety than previous generations

If you are female you have "better" rights, not males. Again women only benefited from so-called equality, or so it seems, have they really? They r expected to enter the workforce like men now to make them independent but they aren't any happier, actually many less happy. Health system joke in Ireland. There may be more variety and higher quality goods but that is creating a stress on our environment carrying them overseas. Also, too much reliance on air travel and car and we wonder why we have global warming?

r93kaey5p2izun

DivingDuck wrote: »

The three "most broke" people I know are constantly buying crap. Online, offline, everywhere. Clothes, convenience food, nights out, convenience travel, beauty products, runners, novelty t-shirts, tech accessories— different things each. One person's living with family, the other two with a roommate.

None of it is expensive— every item would be sub €50, a lot of it under €20. But just €50 a week on rubbish is €2,600 a year. They constantly complain about how they have "no money" and they are "so poor" but all of these purchases are 1) not essential, and 2) poorly budgeted/planned. They don't seek deals, they don't consider alternatives, they just buy everything they see that they want if the money is available to them in that moment.

Are these folks entitled to do that? Absolutely, it's their cash— but the problem isn't lack of money, it's lack of impulse control.

Maybe there is less disposable income these days, but there has also been a huge shift away from saving/responsible purchasing and towards regularly impulse buying cheap rubbish for a quick serotonin hit.

No this is not the case with people I know. Every penny is saved in the desperate hope of ever having their own home. People are literally sitting at home with nothing but Netflix for years. No nights out, no holidays, no shopping. Even days out have to be carefully considered with a trip out to Dun Laoghaire costing over €8 on a Leap card. This is normal life in my circle.

Lia_lia

McGaggs wrote: »

Ah come on now, people using travel agents? Pull the other one.

Well, yes. I do think it's a good example. You can (usually) make substantial savings booking flights and accommodation separately online instead of going to a travel agents and getting them to do it for you.