Disposable Income Gone

eeguy

Buying a house is very attainable for most people in steady decent paying +40k jobs.
Buying a house and maintaining your lifestyle is not however.

You may not get your dream home in the area you want, but that's just life. Im living in a house in an estate, living in a mansion on millionaires row.
You have to be realistic.

server down

Idbatterim wrote: »

TLDR dont spend money on ****e! I totally agree with this post, sick of listening to people who dont have a problem with income, its their spending on total and utter ****e!

stressed out half way through the month because they waste their money, "oh its only a euro" "oh its only two euro" ad that up over god knows how many times a month! IDIOTS!

oh there is another glaring example, the fools paying out E60-80 a month for their phone! newsflash, you can get unlimited everything sim only from E15 per month! but I suppose the "free upgrade" they get on a basic phone and locking themselves into a 24 month contract costing them roughly E1500 over the 2 years, if they dont go for a non "free" phone, maybe 2k over the two years if they go with a more "current" phone. 2k in 2 years, fools and their money...

i keep coming into this thread to point out that all of this is nonsense.

You don't understand what discretionary income is. Its whats left to spend after tax and essentials, including rent. It is not money spent after phones.

(also the cost of a phone is its original value minus its resale value).

Heres Johnny

cantdecide wrote: »

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Out of my circle of friends, I can think of a painter, an alarm fitter, carpet salesman, electricians, sales reps, accountants, teachers, IT People, clerical staff, Garda, plumbers, recruitment agents that have all bought average houses in average areas every year since 2007 to now.

We are the definition of average. They saved hard for deposits got the best job they could, in the case of the self employed guys they worked their nuts off.

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Garda friend of mine and his teacher wife. Moan moan moan. Must be loads of money coming into that house.

I have friends and business acquaintances that wouldn't know a budget it it kicked them in the nuts.

They're all well within themselves or they're struggling. So which is it?

And you literally don't know a single person that things have gone against? You don't know a single single person that can't afford to buy alone? You don't know a single person that lives on contracts? You don't know a single person on low wages? You don't know a single person that made career choices that had undesired results? You don't know any couples where neither of them are on the famous 'average industrial wage'?

I kind of doubt it but I don't really know what kind of person I'd have to be to be in your phone book. I'm just seeing what looks like a lot of bias in your posts...

I know loads and loads of those people but they all had the same upbringing etc that we all had. They don't have the same work ethic that those that succeeded did or they just don't help themselves.
All I'm saying is the idea that an average person in an average job is stone broke is laughable. The people that went out and made things happen for themselves and have realistic expectations around money are thriving. I started an SSIA in my 20s when they were out. Saved money into it for 5 years and did well out of it. That was my house deposit in the end. Others didnt.

I actually have a sister that has a decent job but is lazy as sin and can't budget her money. Cries poverty all the time. Shes at home with mammy and daddy annoying them.

server down

Heres Johnny wrote: »

The idea that an average couple can't buy an average house in an average area of Dublin is total rubbish.

If you can't buy what you want either your salary and savings are below average or the house and area you want are above average.

My house is average. The area is average but I really like it. It's not one of the affluent Dublin areas nor is it one the poorer.

Out of my circle of friends, I can think of a painter, an alarm fitter, carpet salesman, electricians, sales reps, accountants, teachers, IT People, clerical staff, Garda, plumbers, recruitment agents that have all bought average houses in average areas every year since 2007 to now.

We are the definition of average. They saved hard for deposits got the best job they could, in the case of the self employed guys they worked their nuts off.

Because they wanted something and knew what they had to do to get it.

We've all bettered ourselves through training and education and most of all hard work and are reaping the rewards.

If something isn't happening for you and it is for others, you really have to ask yourself why. What's different???

Its different because rent has gone up reducing discretionary income. Thats an empirical fact. House prices have also gone up. Empirical fact two.

I bet the vast majority of average joes who bought an average house in the last few years couldn't buy now, and most of them probably managed to avoid rent by living at home. Thats about the only thing that can explain the utter economic cluelessness.

server down

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Honestly some of the nonsense in here. Reading it has annoyed me.

People spend on frivolous things. My father, or his father before was not in Starbucks buying coffee for 4 quid. They weren't in spar buying a deli roll, crisps, chewing gum and the star newspaper walking out with 3 or 4 quid change from a tenner. Granted, they were in the pub but they enjoyed that, there was no alternative to meeting the lads for a pint.
There is an alternative to going out for lunch everyday buying processed crap.

So they were in the pub quaffing a a few pints which works out as more costly than a deli sandwich after one pint.

I'm fed up of people bitching and moaning about being broke. Most of the cases they are not broke anyway and if they are it's their own fault.

Inability to budget. Inability to plan and forecast.

This has nothing to do with discretionary income.

Myself and my girlfriend both bought houses in the Dublin area in 2010-2012 on single salaries before we were together, me a 3 bed and she a 4 bed, we maintain both homes and all that goes with home ownership independently for now but will probably sell one soon. It can be done.

Now, try and work out if you could actually buy those houses today, particularly if you were in the rental sector beforehand trying to save money ( I bet you were living with your parents, right?).

I too bought in 2012. If I didn't I wouldn't have been able to buy this house. If I didn't I would be paying more in rent than I am now in the mortgage, and much more than I then paid in rent. <- empirical fact.

I would have less disposable and discretionary income, which has literally nothing to do with iPhones and sandwiches.

LirW

I started an SSIA in my 20s when they were out. Saved money into it for 5 years and did well out of it. That was my house deposit in the end. Others didnt.

Others didn't because the SSIAs were a thing for not even a year in the very early 2000s. Plenty of people thinking about buying a house now were teenagers in Secondary.
These teenagers came out of university in the worst downturn (my partner is one of them) and nothing other than the dole queue was waiting for them, he was so lucky to score and IT job back then that paid him peanuts. That is a generation that isn't as lucky as previous generations were. They are now in their late 20s - early 30s. They are facing either living at home, grimey houseshares, high rents and an insane property market. All of that is far from ideal. I know two couples that bought in the last 3 years, one had a good financial background from home and financial decency, the others are in very high paying jobs and also have loaded background. But I know plenty of others that face high rent and living payday to payday really.

server down

Heres Johnny wrote: »

I know loads and loads of those people but they all had the same upbringing etc that we all had. They don't have the same work ethic that those that succeeded did or they just don't help themselves.
All I'm saying is the idea that an average person in an average job is stone broke is laughable. The people that went out and made things happen for themselves and have realistic expectations around money are thriving. I started an SSIA in my 20s when they were out. Saved money into it for 5 years and did well out of it. That was my house deposit in the end. Others didnt.

I actually have a sister that has a decent job but is lazy as sin and can't budget her money. Cries poverty all the time. Shes at home with mammy and daddy annoying them.

They didn't get lucky and get a state subsidised saving program open to a tiny number of people, and manage to buy in 2012 is what you mean. Were you ever in the rental sector by the way?

Idbatterim

ou don't understand what discretionary income is. Its whats left to spend after tax and essentials, including rent. It is not money spent after phones.

(also the cost of a phone is its original value minus its resale value).

many would deem mobile an essential these days!

Idbatterim

server down wrote: »

Its different because rent has gone up reducing discretionary income. Thats an empirical fact. House prices have also gone up. Empirical fact two.

I bet the vast majority of average joes who bought an average house in the last few years couldn't buy now, and most of them probably managed to avoid rent by living at home. Thats about the only thing that can explain the utter economic cluelessness.

100%. for those working in 2010,2011,2012 etc, there have generally been extremely modest if any salary increases, even if there have been generally 50% of it will be lost to income tax.

Rents and house prices have rocketed since the height of the recession, salaries have risen, if at all, at a glacial rate...

Heres Johnny

server down wrote: »

Heres Johnny wrote: »

I know loads and loads of those people but they all had the same upbringing etc that we all had. They don't have the same work ethic that those that succeeded did or they just don't help themselves.
All I'm saying is the idea that an average person in an average job is stone broke is laughable. The people that went out and made things happen for themselves and have realistic expectations around money are thriving. I started an SSIA in my 20s when they were out. Saved money into it for 5 years and did well out of it. That was my house deposit in the end. Others didnt.

I actually have a sister that has a decent job but is lazy as sin and can't budget her money. Cries poverty all the time. Shes at home with mammy and daddy annoying them.

They didn't get lucky and get a state subsidised saving program open to a tiny number of people, and manage to buy in 2012 is what you mean. Were you ever in the rental sector by the way?

Yep 8 years from 2004 to 2012 i rented.

SSIA was open to the entire country and it was a 25% bonus on top.of what I put in myself. So most of the savings were mine. And I saved hard for 5 years.

divillybit

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

If I hear another person tell me the reason most of my generation will never afford a house is takeaway coffee I'm gonna smack them with my avocado toast.

The economy has been stacked in such a way that if you don't come from a family with money, you're going to be scraping by all your life. Wages are dreadful, rents and house prices are sky high. Let me drink my mother flipping coffee so I can summon the will to live in this late stage capitalist dystopia, thanks.

I didnt come from a family with money, was raised on half nothing but I never felt I wanted for anything at the same time. Paid my way through college, and through hard work oppurtunities opened up for me. Your mid to late 20's are the years where you have the most disposable income, as for the most part people are having kids later and no mortgages etc. I think alot of young people starting out in their working life dont realise this and its a pity as a good lump sump saved in your 20's comes in very handy when you get the notion to buy a place of your own.

VonLuck

eeguy wrote: »

Buying a house is very attainable for most people in steady decent paying +40k jobs.
Buying a house and maintaining your lifestyle is not however.

How do you figure that? Lets look at a single person in Dublin looking to buy a home. You'd be very lucky to find 1 bed apartment for 200k, and with a mortgage of 3.5 times your salary, that's 140k. Now you have to make up the remaining 60k in cash.

With rent prices through the roof at the moment it would take many many years to get anywhere near enough to purchase a one bed shoe box in a less than desirable area.

eeguy

VonLuck wrote: »

How do you figure that? Lets look at a single person in Dublin looking to buy a home. You'd be very lucky to find 1 bed apartment for 200k, and with a mortgage of 3.5 times your salary, that's 140k. Now you have to make up the remaining 60k in cash.

With rent prices through the roof at the moment it would take many many years to get anywhere near enough to purchase a one bed shoe box in a less than desirable area.

Today is a terrible time to buy. So I'd probably wait and save for a better time. Property ebbs and flows.

Man on 40k takes home 31.5k, so 2.6k a month. Take 700 for rent and bills, another 200 to run a car or transport and you're left with 1.7k a month to play with.
If you're serious about buying you'll be putting 1k into savings every month and living on the 700 or 150ish per week.
In 3 years you'll have the guts of 35odd thousand, not counting any bonus, raise, extra money or unforseen expenditure.
Nearly at the magical 200k, which is massively inflated in the current market. If you had a partner in a similar position then you're laughing.

People talk like no one is buying houses, but they're bought and sold every day by people from all walks of life.

Personally I'd be looking at houses outside cities, with good transport links, 3 or 4 bed. Let the spare rooms to tenants, get them to pay your mortgage for a few years to take the pressure off. 14k in untaxed extra income is very nice.

LirW

If you're not living in a house-share which people in their 30s often wouldn't anymore you can at least double the amount for rent and bills.
Depending on what car you run 200 can be quite optimistic too. If the driver is a new driver they will likely face pretty high insurance premiums that are easily over 1k a year. That plus wear and tear, maintenance and fuel is likely to exceed 200.

But plenty of people buying houses move back home for the very reason of saving as much as possible to buy as soon as possible. And for that they'll also get sh1t again from society, because hey, you're a loser that are living out of your parents pockets. :rolleyes:

eeguy

LirW wrote: »

If you're not living in a house-share which people in their 30s often wouldn't anymore you can at least double the amount for rent and bills.
Depending on what car you run 200 can be quite optimistic too. If the driver is a new driver they will likely face pretty high insurance premiums that are easily over 1k a year. That plus wear and tear, maintenance and fuel is likely to exceed 200.

But plenty of people buying houses move back home for the very reason of saving as much as possible to buy as soon as possible. And for that they'll also get sh1t again from society, because hey, you're a loser that are living out of your parents pockets. :rolleyes:

If you're saving for a house and think you can rent by yourself in Dublin, in a rental crisis, then you're doing it wrong.
If you're saving for a house and think you can run an expensive car you're doing it wrong. Personally, my yearly tax, insurance and NCT is less than a 800. If I could use public transport, I'd probably sell it.

Plenty of people live with their parents while saving for a house. None of them are losers.

LirW

eeguy wrote: »

If you're saving for a house and think you can rent by yourself in Dublin, in a rental crisis, then you're doing it wrong.
If you're saving for a house and think you can run an expensive car you're doing it wrong. Personally, my yearly tax, insurance and NCT is less than a 800. If I could use public transport, I'd probably sell it.

Plenty of people live with their parents while saving for a house. None of them are losers.

Well, I'm not talking about houses but 1bed apartments there.
My insurance, tax and NCT comes to more than 1500, I drive a small engine 06 car, while the policy on the car is only 2 years old. I'll better not tell you how much I paid in the first year. Some people like me unfortunately need to run a car because public transport isn't suitable for them for a variety of reasons.

Also according to people here on boards, there's regular bashing going on when people have the audacity to live with parents in their late 20s, when there's a rental crisis going on :rolleyes:

cantdecide

For average mileage, a car will cost most people more like €100/ wk by the time you factor in payment/ purchase price+price+fuel+tax+insurance+maintenance+unexpected repairs. IME, you can't really offset the routine costs without spending more on the car up front. Modern diesels are only economical up to the point of them going wrong.

In my case - 10k miles/ 16k km & 41mpg and public transport isn't an option for me.

payment €100/m (for 6 more months)
Insurance €50/m
tax €32/m
fuel €160/m
Maintenance and repairs €75 (probably pessimistic but covers all NCT+service+repair related costs)
_______________
=€417/mth
=€97/wk


In my case, in mid 2015 I took €2,000 I had and borrowed €3,000 over 3 years and got a mint, practical, low mileage 1.4 petrol hatchback (which I will keep indefinitely as was always my plan). I mind it carefully and it's the best balance of safety, reliability, practicality and economy all these things considered - but it's also quite a smart looking car too.

eeguy

LirW wrote: »

Well, I'm not talking about houses but 1bed apartments there.
My insurance, tax and NCT comes to more than 1500, I drive a small engine 06 car, while the policy on the car is only 2 years old. I'll better not tell you how much I paid in the first year. Some people like me unfortunately need to run a car because public transport isn't suitable for them for a variety of reasons.

so maybe it's not the right time for you to start saving for a mortgage. Start making small lifestyle changes and you'll save more than you think.

cantdecide wrote: »

For average mileage, a car will cost most people more like €100/ wk by the time you factor in payment/ purchase price+price+fuel+tax+insurance+maintenance+unexpected repairs. IME, you can't really offset the routine costs without spending more on the car up front. Modern diesels are only economical up to the point of them going wrong.

In my case - 10k miles/ 16k km & 41mpg and public transport isn't an option for me.

payment €100/m (for 6 more months)
Insurance €50/m
tax €32/m
fuel €160/m
Maintenance and repairs €75 (probably pessimistic but covers all NCT+service+repair related costs)
_______________
=€417/mth
=€97/wk


In my case, in mid 2015 I took €2,000 I had and borrowed €3,000 over 3 years and got a mint, practical, low mileage 1.4 petrol hatchback (which I will keep indefinitely as was always my plan). I mind it carefully and it's the best balance of safety, reliability, practicality and economy all these things considered - but it's also quite a smart looking car too.

75 a month on maintenance? The car must be falling apart. Service it yourself twice a year for about 150 in parts, NCT is 55.
Also, you can't complain about not being able to save when you're spending thousands on a car. Again, maybe you're just not at the right stage to start saving. Next year when you've the load paid off you'll have an extra 100 a month to put towards the mortgage.

LirW

eeguy wrote: »

so maybe it's not the right time for you to start saving for a mortgage. Start making small lifestyle changes and you'll save more than you think.

It's nice that you worry about me and my lifestyle choices but I bought a house earlier this year.
The fact that we are able to save doesn't wipe out our need for a reliable car. Since it's an older one it'll have higher cost in maintaining it, plus it's a petrol car that is used for quite high milage. It's not the ideal car but it's a car, it drives and at the moment we can't afford another one.

cantdecide

eeguy wrote: »

75 a month on maintenance? The car must be falling apart. Service it yourself twice a year for about 150 in parts, NCT is 55.

Okay, it's pessimistic but look at a 2 year period -

Tyres - €600 +/- (I have 17s and buy decent tyres)
Timing Belt - €200 +/- (€300 every 3 years would be more realistic)
NCT €110
Basic servicing €100 x4 +/- (I do this myself - Spring and autumn service - oil/ brake pads etc)
_____________
€1310/2yrs
€55/mth
€13/wk

@ €75/mth, this leaves just €20/mth or €240/year for unexpected repairs. I think these numbers jive. I could shave a corner here and there but what difference does it really make? €5 - €10/ mth??

eeguy wrote: »

Also, you can't complain about not being able to save when you're spending thousands on a car. Again, maybe you're just not at the right stage to start saving. Next year when you've the load paid off you'll have an extra 100 a month to put towards the mortgage.

I've also saved a lot of money on unexpected repairs on having bough a decent, reliable car that I won't have to change for years. I invested in a car that I could easily get 5+ years of relatively hassle free motoring out of. Nothing has happened with the car that wasn't budgeted for.

It's also not like other forms of transport are free. For the choices I've made given my circumstances, I need that car. I live in a rural area and there is no decent public transport. Having the loan paid will be a help but there's no one thing I could do apart from a major change of circumstances where I can dispense with the car entirely, which I can't foresee at this point.

I have saved some money. The beginning of a deposit. But the only way I could do this was to live with me ma at an age when no man should. My only hope is that I can land a job that gives me a shot at home ownership.