The 2018 World Cup Superthread

Ultimate Seduction

The people who flat out accuse them of doping probably have certain political blinkers on anyway. So much propaganda before this tournament that England have one of the fewest amount of fans there.

Ultimate Seduction

CSF wrote: »

Well his name is Dietmar so you can really take your choice.

I like diddy best because I like diddys

Ultimate Seduction

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

The people who flat out accuse them of doping probably have certain political blinkers on anyway. So much propaganda before this tournament that England have one of the fewest amount of fans there.

England winning a penalty shootout should be raising eyebrows at the very least!

Turtyturd

eagle eye wrote: »

Is Modric doping? He was full on all game long, no sign of tiredness at any stage. I don't have the stats but I'd be surprised if any player covered more ground than him.



He plays for Real Madrid the European Club Champions, are they all doping?

I’d say there’s one who definitely is...or has he left yet?

Will I Am Not

Russia substituted their striker and the 3 behind him. They had fresh legs all across the attack in extra time.

darced

This post has been deleted.

pjohnson

Turtyturd wrote: »

I’d say there’s one who definitely is...or has he left yet?

Predictable.

CSF

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I mean, I don't have a particularly strong opinion on the matter, but given the Russia state endorsed systematic doping that has gone on in other sports, it is hardly tinfoil hat type stuff, even if it does transpire that the whole squad were clean as a whistle.

CalamariFritti

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Is 'Didi' Hamann pronounced


like I think

or

like P. Collins does

DeeDee

Billy86

The six players with the most distance covered in the WC so far:

[B]1. Russia[/B]  - Roman Zobnin      - 63km
[B]2. Russia[/B]  - Mario Fernandes   - 55km
[B]3. Russia[/B]  - Aleksandr Golovin - 54.8km
[B]4. Russia[/B]  - Ilya Kupetov      - 53.1
[B]5. Russia[/B]  - Sergei Ignasevich - 53km
6. Uruguay - Matias Vecino    - 52.4km

Hats off to Ignasevich, one week before his 39th birthday making him older than Richard Dunne and still managing to cover more ground than any non-Russian player in the entire tournament! Remarkable, superhuman even!

Likewise to Roman Zobnin who has managed to cover more than 10km or 20% more ground than any non-Russian player in the entire tournament! :pac:

Benimar

Billy86 wrote: »

The six players with the most distance covered in the WC so far:

[B]1. Russia[/B]  - Roman Zobnin      - 63km
[B]2. Russia[/B]  - Mario Fernandes   - 55km
[B]3. Russia[/B]  - Aleksandr Golovin - 54.8km
[B]4. Russia[/B]  - Ilya Kupetov      - 53.1
[B]5. Russia[/B]  - Sergei Ignasevich - 53km
6. Uruguay - Matias Vecino    - 52.4km

Hats off to Ignasevich, one week before his 39th birthday making him older than Richard Dunne and still managing to cover more ground than any non-Russian player in the entire tournament! Remarkable, superhuman even!

Likewise to Roman Zobnin who has managed to cover more than 10km or 20% more ground than any non-Russian player in the entire tournament! :pac:

Zobnin has also played 510 minutes. Vecino for example has played 416.

Vecino has covered 83% of the distance in 81% of the time. He drugging too?

Billy86

Benimar wrote: »

Zobnin has also played 510 minutes. Vecino for example has played 416.

Vecino has covered 83% of the distance in 81% of the time. He drugging too?

He might well be, but as you pointed out he got to rest more than Zobnin due to not having to play 120 mins twice in a row, and getting subbed out of a few games as well - it's a lot easier to go hard when you're resting in between. Zobnin is keeping that pace while playing every minute of every game so far, including all 120 mins in the last two rounds. I also don't think we've seen similar from the rest of the Uruguay team either (and they looked quite flat vs France in complete contrast to Russia tonight).

Croatia have played as many minutes as Russia, surely they would be right up there too. Except they're not, surely they should be right up there with the Russians, and yet not only is that not the case, but while the Russians were absolutely full of energy through the game today, they became noticeably gassed before 90 minutes.

Ultimate Seduction

Billy86 wrote: »

He might well be, but as you pointed out he got to rest more than Zobnin due to not having to play 120 mins twice in a row, and getting subbed out of a few games as well - it's a lot easier to go hard when you're resting in between. Zobnin is keeping that pace while playing every minute of every game so far, including all 120 mins in the last two rounds. I also don't think we've seen similar from the rest of the Uruguay team either (and they looked quite flat vs France in complete contrast to Russia tonight).

Croatia have played as many minutes as Russia, surely they would be right up there too. Except they're not, surely they should be right up there with the Russians, and yet not only is that not the case, but while the Russians were absolutely full of energy through the game today, they became noticeably gassed before 90 minutes.

What about all the Russians in bits on the ground after the Denmark game? They looked shattered.

Croatia are never going to cover the distance Russia did because they have possession of the ball. Russia can't keep on to the ball so they run alot more obviously.

Did you have the same cynicism when newly promoted side Leicester City out ran every team in the premier league a few years ago?

Billy86

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

What about all the Russians in bits on the ground after the Denmark game? They looked shattered.

Croatia are never going to cover the distance Russia did because they have possession of the ball. Russia can't keep on to the ball so they run alot more obviously.

Did you have the same cynicism when newly promoted side Leicester City out ran every team in the premier league a few years ago?

Russia haven't played Denmark? I'm assuming you mixed them up with Spain who had 79% possession in htat game and are the absolute masters of tiring teams out through possession over 90 minutes - never mind 120. And yet, the only player on the ground before the shootout was Fernandes.

If Croatia didn't have to run as much, logic would dictate that they would be the team with more energy as the game went on. Especially as in their previous game, Russia had 21%(!) possession against Spain, while Croatia had the majority of the ball against the Danes. Except the opposite happened, with Russia looking absolutely full of life throughout the game tonight as Croatia visibly became shattered as it wore on, despite having 2/3rds of the ball.

And Leicester didn't cover the most ground in their first season up, and also barely avoided relegation. The next year when they won the league, they covered less ground than Man Utd, Bournemouth, West Ham, West Brom and Spurs.

ArmaniJeanss

Billy86 wrote: »

The six players with the most distance covered in the WC so far:

[B]1. Russia[/B]  - Roman Zobnin      - 63km
[B]2. Russia[/B]  - Mario Fernandes   - 55km
[B]3. Russia[/B]  - Aleksandr Golovin - 54.8km
[B]4. Russia[/B]  - Ilya Kupetov      - 53.1
[B]5. Russia[/B]  - Sergei Ignasevich - 53km
6. Uruguay - Matias Vecino    - 52.4km

Hats off to Ignasevich, one week before his 39th birthday making him older than Richard Dunne and still managing to cover more ground than any non-Russian player in the entire tournament! Remarkable, superhuman even!

Likewise to Roman Zobnin who has managed to cover more than 10km or 20% more ground than any non-Russian player in the entire tournament! :pac:

Interesting stats but you should really post a link/source.

Thoughts....
Just 8 teams have played 5 games therefore you'd obviously expect the distance covered stats to be biased towards those 8 teams. So referring as you did to 'the entire tournament :pac:' is a bit misleading.
Of those eight there are four (Belgium, England, France, Croatia) who very clearly played a second string team in their final group game. Their individual numbers will thus be lower.
Only two (Russia and Croatia) played extra time twice.

So on a Venn of that alone I think you'd expect Russian players to be at the top of the charts.

I'm not saying Russia aren't dodgy, just that your figures are unsafe.

Billy86

They're all on FIFA.com, I did a quick search on teams to make it to the quarter finals to get an idea of teams and players who have gone through a close number of games - https://www.fifa.com/worldcup/teams/ (click on a team, then a player and it will give you all of their info).

I do get your points, though what is most noticeable is not just how much ground Russia have covered (there's a war joke in there somewhere) but how remarkably fresh and energetic they looked even late in the late today despite as you mentioned, not having any rest since the games began.

Sweden also had fairly high numbers in terms of distances covered, but they looked extremely lethargic against England as a result, while Croatia have the same amount of time played yet despite having plenty more possession throughout the entire tournament and the game tonight (which would typically mean less exertion), if someone tuned in for extra time they'd have been under the impression Russia must have had close to 80% possession from how worn out the Croats were by comparison.

Men with more minutes cover more distance. Surely not.

pjohnson

Ngolo Kante must be drugged to the eyeballs

Tom Mann Centuria

They don't seem to swap shirts any more, is that a rule, or do they just not bother.

ERG89

pjohnson wrote: »

Ngolo Kante must be drugged to the eyeballs

Well he's performing at that level week in & week out for a few years.
Didn't one of the Russian players Dad's say his son was doped?
That ignashevich stat if true is worse than any other evidence. It already looks a bit odd that they had a huge upturn in form overnight.

Trigger

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

They don't seem to swap shirts any more, is that a rule, or do they just not bother.

I definitely seen an English player with a Swedish Jersey draped around his neck after the match, can’t remember who though.

lawred2

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

They don't seem to swap shirts any more, is that a rule, or do they just not bother.

No rules against it. Did see Ronaldo's shirt being requested a few times.

gimli2112

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Not a hope it's clean! Testing not stringent enough

Sure everytime they turned up to test Ferdinand at OT he was out shopping and no-one could contact him

GT_TDI_150

After 2 games russian players had covered 118km per game, 2km ahead of any other team in the wc and ahead of the highest running distance set by a team in the prem last season which i believe was liverpool, at 117km
...
If my memory of the detail i read at the time is corrwct

The_Kew_Tour

COME ON ENGLAND!!!!

Ronaldo has clocked the joint fastest speed at the workd cup. Not bad for a 33 yr old..

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11096/11427011/which-world-cup-stars-have-hit-the-fastest-speeds-in-russia

NIMAN

GT_TDI_150 wrote: »

After 2 games russian players had covered 118km per game, 2km ahead of any other team in the wc and ahead of the highest running distance set by a team in the prem last season which i believe was liverpool, at 117km
...
If my memory of the detail i read at the time is corrwct

So basically that would be 1km more per game across 11 players? Not really anything there to suggest doping. Adrenaline could explain that, they ate at home, have the crowd behind them.

PhlegmyMoses

I wouldn't even use stats for this debate. The Russian government has been involved in complex state-sponsored doping programs for decades. The default us to always assume that they are doping, doubly so if they are hosting the tournament and fear embarrassment.

NIMAN

There is a fair chance there is some doping going on in the Russian camp. They have form.

But I hate how some only see Russians as the culprits.

All the other nations are getting a by-ball for some reason. They are all good, obeying the rules, clean. But those nasty Russians are looking to cheat.

What about the top tennis stars, the Jamaican sprinters (and I count ALL of them here), the rugby players, Spanish football over the last 19 yrs, etc etc?

It's everywhere, just some don't want to see it.

PhlegmyMoses

NIMAN wrote: »

There is a fair chance there is some doping going on in the Russian camp. They have form.

But I hate how some only see Russians as the culprits.

All the other nations are getting a by-ball for some reason. They are all good, obeying the rules, clean. But those nasty Russians are looking to cheat.

What about the top tennis stars, the Jamaican sprinters (and I count ALL of them here), the rugby players, Spanish football over the last 19 yrs, etc etc?

It's everywhere, just some don't want to see it.

The reason why people speak about Russia and not others is because we don't have the same level of information. The Russians have been at it for years and we have their top doctors on tape speaking about.

I don't think it serves any purpose to whatabout the other way. Russia are known cheats and should be treated as such. If all sporting associations took a dim view if what they did, it woyld be for the better.

764dak

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

NIMAN wrote: »

There is a fair chance there is some doping going on in the Russian camp. They have form.

But I hate how some only see Russians as the culprits.

All the other nations are getting a by-ball for some reason. They are all good, obeying the rules,  clean. But those nasty Russians are looking to cheat.

What about the top tennis stars, the Jamaican sprinters (and I count ALL of them here), the rugby players, Spanish football over the last 19 yrs, etc etc?

It's everywhere,  just some don't want to see it.

The reason why people speak about Russia and not others is because we don't have the same level of information. The Russians have been at it for years and we have their top doctors on tape speaking about.

I don't think it serves any purpose to whatabout the other way. Russia are known cheats and should be treated as such. If all sporting associations took a dim view if what they did, it woyld be for the better.

Spanish doping was pretty big.  But most people looked the other way when it comes to Spanish football.

PhlegmyMoses

764dak wrote: »

Spanish doping was pretty big.  But most people looked the other way when it comes to Spanish football.

Who looked the other way? If we are talking about Fuentes, he was a doctor involved in doping on a global scale, not just Spanish athletes and cyclists. And the Spanish government actively worked to shut it down, hence the extensive raids by the Guardia Civil.

The Russian state is comfortable with their guys doping and actively pursue it and we know this because the top man heading it all up has spoken about this. They received a partial ban in the 2016 Olympics and a total ban in the winter Olympics as a result of it.

Basically, there is likely doping in other countries, it's overwhelmingly likely in fact. But the argument that I'm making is that we know that it isn't just likely in Russia, it is a default position encouraged by the State. They used their anti-doping agency as the front for it ffs. For me, in any sporting endeavour, the default position is to assume that the Russian guys are doping, because that has proven to be the case for decades.

Stephen15

Jaysus England v Croatia in the semis seems like ages ago since Croatia beat them at Wembley to stop England qualifying for the Euros

citytillidie

Stephen15 wrote: »

Jaysus England v Croatia in the semis seems like ages ago since Croatia beat them at Wembley to stop England qualifying for the Euros

Well 11 years is ages ago

Hitchens

Will England wear the all red strip against the Croats?

Cake Man

Unlikely as if England are in red, Croatia would have to be in black/grey which isn’t permitted (two dark colours). Most likely England in white and Croatia in black/grey.

Is there a more annoying keeper than Jordan Pickford? Every time a ball comes anywhere near him or the opposition gets an attempt on goal he’s out bawling, roaring, screaming and shouting at his outfielders. I mean, there’s a time and place for doing that to gee up your teammates to focus but doing it every single time just looks stupid and dilutes the effect of it.

eagle eye

So the top man on distance covered in the World Cup so far is Roman Zobnin who has covered 63km in 510 minutes of football for an average around 123 metres per minute.



In the 2014 World Cup Thomas Mueller was the top man with 84km covered in 682 minutes of football for an average of around 123 metres per minute.



In 2014 Germany had four of the top five on distance covered at the end of the World Cup. Argentina and the Netherlands had three each of the top 10.



It's impossible to find enough stats to get the metres per minute for every player so I just picked out a couple and the top man I came across was Jesse Lingard who has run 46 km in 362 minutes for an average around 128 metres per minute.

Sterling isn't doping

Loafing Oaf

Stephen15 wrote: »

Jaysus England v Croatia in the semis seems like ages ago since Croatia beat them at Wembley to stop England qualifying for the Euros

Always remember that match for the exchange between Motson and Lawrenson when Croatia went two up:
Motty - "Say something Mark"
Lawro - "I can't"

marklazarcovic

Cake Man wrote: »

Unlikely as if England are in red, Croatia would have to be in black/grey which isn’t permitted (two dark colours). Most likely England in white and Croatia in black/grey.

Is there a more annoying keeper than Jordan Pickford? Every time a ball comes anywhere near him or the opposition gets an attempt on goal he’s out bawling, roaring, screaming and shouting at his outfielders. I mean, there’s a time and place for doing that to gee up your teammates to focus but doing it every single time just looks stupid and dilutes the effect of it.

I think myself that players are so image concious these days, constantly looking at the big screen to see are they on it so to act differently,so many photographers etc.. it's all for show. You can see players looking at the screen all the time.

Turtwig

marklazarcovic wrote: »

I think myself that players are so image concious these days, constantly looking at the big screen to see are they on it so to act differently,so many photographers etc.. it's all for show. You can see players looking at the screen all the time.

Or they take advantage of the replays to get another perspective on the play. To see if they can adapt anything or missed something.

Mr.Prodston

I haven't seen any chat/discussion/had a chance to read back the thread yet but I presume the consensus was that Sterling was excellent yesterday, goal chance aside?

Blazer

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

I haven't seen any chat/discussion/had a chance to read back the thread yet but I presume the consensus was that Sterling was excellent yesterday, goal chance aside?

hmmm..not from what I was watching. He blew 2 chances and one of them would have been a certain goal if he had passed to his team mates. In a tighter match that would be the difference between staying or going home.
With Man City he gets a few chances per match. In international you might only get 1 so you better tuck it away.

Ultimate Seduction

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

I haven't seen any chat/discussion/had a chance to read back the thread yet but I presume the consensus was that Sterling was excellent yesterday, goal chance aside?

He was excellent without the ball, as soon as he has the ball he looks clueless. I honestly think his legs are too fast for his brain.

Lucas Hood

As said yesterday off the ball he was great but not so much when he had the ball. He shoots when he should pass and passes when he should be shooting.

adox

All the players except for Sterling look like Southgates 2018 version of England. Relaxed and expressing themselves as much as they can.

Sterling has looked like a player from England’s teams past. Doesn’t look comfortable or composed in possession. You can nearly feel the pressure on him.

I’d give Rashford some game time at this stage. Has the pace as well and will make runs all day long too. May or may not fair better than Sterling but surely worth a go at this stage? A bit more of a physical presence too and also has a very good understanding with Lingard.

I actually think Sterling is being talked up by the media with the likes of “real football people know what he contributes” etc.

The Talking Bread

Sterling put in a shift but due to the fact he got certain amounts of criticism on social media (like always) there seemed to be a bit of an attempt by certain media outlets to overplay "how well he played" to hush the criticism.

The media have clearly been doing all they can to get behind the team and no player has beeen criticised to any fractious degree this campaign. I think after the whole tattoo hysteria surrounding Sterling, they have been particularly wary of criticising him.

His performance was definitely over exaggerated in some match reports.

The Talking Bread

adox wrote: »

I actually think Sterling is being talked up by the media with the likes of “real football people know what he contributes” etc.

Yeah, I would add that to my post above.

He won't be dropped for Rashford at this stage. England have been blessed with discipline and injuries also, even the Dele Alli one alloowed for others to get a run out in what were, basically training matches!

Harry Palmr

The essence of Raheem Sterling hasn't changed since he broke through at Liverpool really. He looks good until the moment that changes a game - goals, sure he can score we all know that but how many of them have been both created and finished by him? It feels like nearly all are of the handed to him on a plate/tap-in variety. Add in the extra pressure of playing for England where he is under greater scrutiny and hasn't scored for so long and it does seem to weigh heavily on him.

Sprinter Sacre

Imagine thinking of dropping Raheem Sterling for Marcus Rashford good God.