The 2018 World Cup Superthread

Drumpot

TheCitizen wrote: »

You did actually. You said you don’t get why people think France are a lot better than Croatia “or England for that matter” is what you said.

I don’t think they are that far ahead of Croatia but they’re certainly better than England as were Croatia. Much better final in prospect now that England are going home.

That’s fair enough I did mention England , I missed that.

But asides from an explosive game against Argentina what is exciting about France? 2 set pieces and a GK error got them through the semis and quarters. How does that make them exciting or good to watch? Isn’t set pieces the thing being used to attack a lessor England team? What’s Frances excuse?

England are a lessor team then France and have inferior players and yet for all the complaints about their set piece strength they actually play a more open attacking strategy.

I don’t see where either finalist has been vastly superior to England. Croatia scraped past Denmark and Russia that weren’t much more impressive then anything England faced.

It’s like people ignore actual games , performances , results, goals (set pieces) and apply a completely opposite standard against England.

JPA

castletownman wrote: »

Anyone else think Sterling's game intelligence is low? That Kane miss in the first half that was called offside, Sterling played the through ball even though he surely, surely knew he was about three foot offside. Same with the Tunisia game I think, Kane scored the first goal and Sterling had continued attacking the ball despite being offside but not interfering with play himself.

Caused problems tonight to be fair, and I say Lovern will be the sick of the sight of him when the PL returns, but between his finishing and his final ball, he is a mile off the finished article

He's such a frustrating player, shoots when he should pass or passes when he should shoot. He got most of his City goals with 1 or 2 touches and a finish but for England he was expected to have some kind of link role where he struggled.

StringerBell

Very little to get excited about France either which is true. They are a pretty dull team which is even more annoying given the players they have.

Hopefully the 3 days break is enough to make the final interesting and anything other than a 2-0 grind it out win for France (one goal in the first hour and another catching Croatia on the break late)

Croatia after 3 extra times, who looked so leggy against England, don't inspire confidence of this being a cracker of a final tbh.

Ultimate Seduction

farna_boy wrote: »

Walcott mark 2?

More of a Aaron Lennon MK2

gimli2112

they need to scrap this 3rd and 4th place play off. The most pointless game in football?

ebbsy

Kane had 2 great chances and if he had scored the first one I think Croatia were finished. England had a good World Cup though and have a strong future.

France are strong in all areas of the pitch, and will be confident of winning. I think they will win to nil.

Adamocovic

So the World Cup predictor is nearing an end for me.

Entered a tournament with 100 others from work, where we had to predict all the results for the matches from group stages to final.

Shot up the leaderboard during the knockouts and now if France win I think I win it overall. Living in France I was always going to support them just for the session and atmosphere but now I'll be a nervous wreck with the money on the line!

Hopefully they don't break my heart, but I'm not as confident as some are here that France will steamroll Croatia.

quarryman

gimli2112 wrote: »

they need to scrap this 3rd and 4th place play off. The most pointless game in football?

It contributes towards FIFA rankings.

ERG89

castletownman wrote: »

Anyone else think Sterling's game intelligence is low?

It really helps when he's playing at City to be surrounded by Silva, De Bruyne & Sane who create chance after chance for you. With England he's asked to create more & not be on the end of things as much along with the likes of Alli & Lingard so you can see why he hasn't scored in a few years for them. It's hardly a shock they were so weak in open play.

Sheep breeder

England were poor in midfield with Henderson passing backwards all the time and not looking forward, Kane done a lot of tracking back to help out in midfield and needs a more clever players around him like at spurs with son,Erickson etc to play more clever football to his strength. Fancy France to win now and modric is a good player for his size with a great engine.
Thankfully we will not have to read or listen to dunphy for much longer going on about his days at millwall and the crap he spouts.

JB81

StringerBell wrote: »

Harry Kane has had a **** world cup you know. I know, penalties and that but he genuinely has been very underwhelming in every game.

I actually think he has been awful. He done absolutely nothing last night.

And did anyone notice Harry Maguire giving Neymar a run for his money in the diving stakes again last night, following on from his dive in the other game, what a numpty!!!

Blazer

Man Ian Wright has to be the biggest cock on tv after Piers Morgan. I’m pretty sure that if Roy Keane imitated Wright they’ll be accusations of racism flying out of his mouth.

lawred2

Blazer wrote: »

Man Ian Wright has to be the biggest cock on tv after Piers Morgan. I’m pretty sure that if Roy Keane imitated Wright they’ll be accusations of racism flying out of his mouth.

I didn't see this but is it true he started doing a 'diddly oi' Paddy Potato accent?

thomasj

gimli2112 wrote:

they need to scrap this 3rd and 4th place play off. The most pointless game in football?

Ah no the apres match lads are brilliant when they take over for the 3rd place play off

Blazer

lawred2 wrote: »

I didn't see this but is it true he started doing a 'diddly oi' Paddy Potato accent?

Yep, he tried to slag off Keane by imitating his accent for the “final” ..poorly.

farna_boy

lawred2 wrote: »

I didn't see this but is it true he started doing a 'diddly oi' Paddy Potato accent?

No. He mocked Keane's pronounciation of "final".

There was an opportunity for Keane to make a good point last night without sounding like a bitter cock but as usual Keane much prefers to go in two footed.

StringerBell

Keane didn't say anything wrong last night though. He had reality checked them last week about it and was questioning if they will ever learn

And yes wright did imitate to mock his accent

It was pretty good natured stuff though from all sides, no actual malice intended. Obviously the knives would be out from certain sections if it was the other way round but not everybody has to get outraged over everything .

Blazer

It’s not the first time Wright has shown his ‘uncle tom’ form though as Collymore calls him.

Cantona's Collars

FIFA more concerned about offending sponsors than anything else.
Croatia were warned about Fascist banners around the ground while England were fined £50,000 for Delli Alli,Dier and Sterling wearing "unauthorised socks".

Blazer

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

FIFA more concerned about offending sponsors than anything else.
Croatia were warned about Fascist banners around the ground while England were fined £50,000 for Delli Alli,Dier and Sterling wearing "unauthorised socks".

It’s the number one sin in Fifa’s eyes. God forbid you kill, maim , be as corrupt as hell but it’s nothing compared to wearing the wrong socks.

ebbsy

Ian Wright is a terrible person, and also a terrible pundit.

TheCitizen

farna_boy wrote: »

No. He mocked Keane's pronounciation of "final".

There was an opportunity for Keane to make a good point last night without sounding like a bitter cock but as usual Keane much prefers to go in two footed.

What did Keane say wrong? I saw that post match chat he struggled to keep the smile off his face but he said nothing ontoward. Don’t know what you’re talking about

TheCitizen

Drumpot wrote: »

That’s fair enough I did mention England , I missed that.

But asides from an explosive game against Argentina what is exciting about France? 2 set pieces and a GK error got them through the semis and quarters. How does that make them exciting or good to watch? Isn’t set pieces the thing being used to attack a lessor England team? What’s Frances excuse?

England are a lessor team then France and have inferior players and yet for all the complaints about their set piece strength they actually play a more open attacking strategy.

I don’t see where either finalist has been vastly superior to England. Croatia scraped past Denmark and Russia that weren’t much more impressive then anything England faced.

It’s like people ignore actual games , performances , results, goals (set pieces) and apply a completely opposite standard against England.

Except that Croatia were clearly superior to England last night, and France were very impressive against Argentina as you concede and controlled other wins.

England got the luck of the draw in a huge way in this tournament and the first decent team they come against (bar the dead rubber Belgium group game) their going home. Deal with it.

Backstreet Moyes

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I think due to the draw, England's progress in this tournament was a bit of an anomaly. I think as every year passes, they fall further and further behind the top international sides on a technical level, despite the standard of international football being quite poor. They'll be doing well to get past the last 16 next time around if they come up against a decent outfit. If a few of the top international teams pick the standard up, England will be a long way behind

Have you looked at underage results.

England have been the most successful side the past few years.

They play great football and will get very strong in the next few years.

Blazer

To be honest all the big teams played crap this year.
If an Italian side had made it to this WC they would have sleep walked to the final. I think Croatia deserve it for going through 3 consecutive 120 minute games and coming out on top each time. I’d like to see them win it for that fact alone.

grumpymunster

farna_boy wrote: »

No. He mocked Keane's pronounciation of "final".

There was an opportunity for Keane to make a good point last night without sounding like a bitter cock but as usual Keane much prefers to go in two footed.

I would be no fan of Keane but I have to say I thought he was reasonable and fair in his assessment last night. He made the point that England did not have many players who have won anything and they were already arranging the parade, pointing out it was unlikely that the first trophy most of these players would win would be the World Cup (indeed he could have gone much further and said picking a team based on Spurs who tend to bottle the big occasion was asking for it).
Wright likes the soundbite and to be fair his response was racist and quite uneducated I felt. He had no sensible answer to Keane's comments.

Dave0301

Nuts102 wrote: »

Have you looked at underage results.

England have been the most successful side the past few years.

They play great football and will get very strong in the next few years.

Sucess at underage level doesn't always translate into success at senior level.

Take the Irish side that finished third at the World Youth Championships, and here you can see what some of them went onto. It is similar for the U18 squad that won the Euros too.

yourdeadwright

Dave0301 wrote: »

Nuts102 wrote: »

Have you looked at underage results.

England have been the most successful side the past few years.

They play great football and will get very strong in the next few years.

Sucess at underage level doesn't always translate into success at senior level.

Take the Irish side that finished third at the World Youth Championships, and here you can see what some of them went onto. It is similar for the U18 squad that won the Euros too.

Spain and Germany disagree, they had constant success at youth level then senior level.
Ireland came 3rd in a one off hardly showed success at youth level.,
England have been showing constant brilliant under ages teams for a few years now, I think it will translate well for England

Drumpot

TheCitizen wrote: »

Except that Croatia were clearly superior to England last night, and France were very impressive against Argentina as you concede and controlled other wins.

England got the luck of the draw in a huge way in this tournament and the first decent team they come against (bar the dead rubber Belgium group game) their going home. Deal with it.

If England got the luck of the draw what did Croatia get ? Surely "the luck of the draw" comments apply to Croatia aswell !?

Denmark - Russia and a supposedly awful England . . They scraped past all three, not exactly the sign of a team that should be able to put it up to a supposedly imposing French team. I imagine had England qualified the same way Croatia did there would be plenty of "Look how lucky they were" comments.

You see I can concede fair points or when I have made mistakes but I can also challenge quite double sided bias. What people have done here when this bias is highlighted is turn that challenge around with hyperbolic "Why cant people not like England" which is nothing to do with their comments being challenged. In truth they just don't have any decent defence of their comments, just ignore whats being said and grandstand about how their right to hate England is being infringed upon to rally the "thanks" group . .

France looked average in their group games. Fumbled through it with the help of VAR. Were impressive in their response to a very poor Argentina, but were losing at one stage in the second half. They needed a 19 year old to bail them out. Then against Uruguay they scored from a set piece and a goalkeeping error and Uruguay were missing their hero (Cavani) from the game before which was a nice piece of luck. Against Belgium they scored from another set piece and sat back and defended well and remained very organised.

There has been nothing remarkable about France other then they have done what they have needed to do to get to the final. They wouldn't be the first team to do it but the quality of players that they have would have me feeling like they have been under performing. Only for Belgium having a really poor manager they might of been properly exposed.

And how were Croatia that much better then England ? I don't get how anybody watched that game and could come to that conclusion. The game went very much like the Columbia game. England looking relatively comfortable and playing most the football, they concede a goal and fall to pieces for 15 minutes but regain their composure. The difference was Croatia had that bit of extra class to get back into the game and grab a goal and hold out. Better team won, but not the vastly better team, the team that had that bit more experience when it mattered.

Here is the thing though. If England are as poor as some people are saying then Croatia had "the easy draw" and should be the ones who have "no chance" against France. Croatia have needed extra time in every game against relatively average teams according to those who think England were a poor team. . You can only judge a team fairly on performances and results in this tournament, not the fifa stats or popularity of some players. In the cold light of day Croatia haven't been the romantic awesome superior team to England that some are building them up to be and if they applied the same "standards" that they have been applying to England, there wouldn't be an awful lot of excitement for the final. .

England had a less experienced team, really struggled (Columbia + Croatia) to regain composure when conceding goals and relied a lot on set pieces (as France have done since round 16). But they generally tried to play progressive, non defensive football, worked to their strengths and have done as well as could reasonably expected of a team of their quality. Their own media, that loves to hammer them, are actually praising them which is a remarkable success on its own. I've seen some people trying to twist that as arrogance when its absolutely no different to Ireland celebrating a team that didnt win a game in 1990. Its a nation that had very low expectations, has mostly never seen its team win and is proud of how well their team conducted themselves. This really grates with some people who want to just twist everything English into something bad . .

Dave0301

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Spain and Germany disagree, they had constant success at youth level then senior level.
Ireland came 3rd in a one off hardly showed success at youth level.,
England have been showing constant brilliant under ages teams for a few years now, I think it will translate well for England

Nigeria disagree with you seen as they have won the U17 World Championships 5 times :pac:

DenMan

Wembley will be hosting both the semi-finals and the final of Euro 2020 I just read. I hope England can push on now and plan to win Euro 2020. The qualifying draw takes place in December in Dublin. Hope Ireland qualify! Best of luck to both France and Croatia in the final. I think France will win 2-0 in 90 minutes.

yourdeadwright

Dave0301 wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Spain and Germany disagree, they had constant success at youth level then senior level.
Ireland came 3rd in a one off hardly showed success at youth level.,
England have been showing constant brilliant under ages teams for a few years now, I think it will translate well for England

Nigeria disagree with you seen as they have won the U17 World Championships 5 times :pac:

there players are all about 22 when they win it :)

ERG89

Dave0301 wrote:

Sucess at underage level doesn't always translate into success at senior level.

Even all the youth tournaments Spain won for years I kept thinking against Russia where are most of them gone now. The like of Oliver Torres, Suso, Deulofeu, Dennis Suarez, Adrian, Montoya, Tello, Diego Capel & Canales never amounted to much.

Adamocovic

Don't know if it's being reported on too much over in Ireland/UK (Probably is) but there were clashes the other night up in Paris after the France game. Riot police, flares, tear gas the likes.

A complete bordel. Wonder what it will be like now if they get the win!

citytillidie

The end of tv companies looking in the crowd

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/44800145

citytillidie

gimli2112 wrote: »

they need to scrap this 3rd and 4th place play off. The most pointless game in football?

It helps with sweepstakes

terrydel

citytillidie wrote: »

The end of tv companies looking in the crowd

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/44800145

It took them til 2 games before the end to do it!
That'll tell you how serious they are:D

jacool

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Spain and Germany disagree, they had constant success at youth level then senior level.

Germany’s success was based on an overhaul of their entire system after failing to win any of their group games in Euro 2000. I accept that they won youth tournaments in 2008 and 2009, but that was just a bonus, on the way to the real goal, which was achieved in 2014. The main thing about Germany was that they were able to have the time and resources to look at over half a million players a year, and unearth talents like Toni Kroos, that would normally have slipped through the cracks (living in the back of beyond!)

quarryman

citytillidie wrote: »

The end of tv companies looking in the crowd

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/44800145

Right before we get the Balkan and French beauties, typical.

Adamocovic

With England we will have to wait and see but obviously it's clear the reason for their fans to be hopeful.

They just had their best WC result since 1990, and if they manage to win on Saturday it's their best result since they won in 1966. Their team has a number of young players that will be part of the 2020 squad and the 2022 WC.

In the youth levels their U20s won the World Cup last year for the first time, and their U19s won the Euros for the first time since 1993.

Their current manager previously worked with the youth levels and it is believed they are trying to design a system that maintains similar style throughout each level in order to help improve the transition to the senior squad.

Yeah, it may not lead to them winning anything, but you would imagine most football fans can understand why the above would be seen as reasons for optimism for the English.

Loafing Oaf

jacool wrote: »

Germany’s success was based on an overhaul of their entire system after failing to win any of their group games in Euro 2000. I accept that they won youth tournaments in 2008 and 2009, but that was just a bonus, on the way to the real goal, which was achieved in 2014. The main thing about Germany was that they were able to have the time and resources to look at over half a million players a year, and unearth talents like Toni Kroos, that would normally have slipped through the cracks (living in the back of beyond!)

Time for Das Re-Reboot?:P

(or maybe just das boot up das hole for Ozil and a couple of others...)

yourdeadwright

Anyone think the ref made right cock up last night,
I think VAR where still checking the peno incident at the end of the first half but when the Ref blew the whistle for half time , So there was nothing the ref could of you can't give a peno when the whistle for a half is ended,
As it was 100% a peno. imagine the outcry if that was against England

Adamocovic

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Anyone think the ref made right cock up last night,
I think VAR where still checking the peno incident at the end of the first half but when the Ref blew the whistle for half time , So there was nothing the ref could of you can't give a peno when the whistle for a half is ended,
As it was 100% a peno. imagine the outcry if that was against England

You'd imagine the person in VAR would let the ref know we're still reviewing and to hold off, but who knows!

It's improved the referring of the game but still a lot of bits need ironing out.

I was very surprised England got so far. The players are mostly strong fast but not technic gifted. They play a style like in their PL, but a 5th - 6th placed team.

The best player was the goal keeper. Without winning many dead balls, Kane became nothing, and Rashford, Lindard, Dele and others like them are ponies with one trick. No player has imagination, or creation. The defenders are mostly ordinary.

They are young and will get better, but they need a coach with technical mind. And some midfield players with intelligence.

ArmaniJeanss

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Anyone think the ref made right cock up last night,
I think VAR where still checking the peno incident at the end of the first half but when the Ref blew the whistle for half time , So there was nothing the ref could of you can't give a peno when the whistle for a half is ended,
As it was 100% a peno. imagine the outcry if that was against England

Happened in Germany this season (where they may be operating under different VAR rules admittedly).
Anyway the ref brought the players back out for the penalty despite having blown for HT before it was awarded.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/43791511

yourdeadwright

Deleted User wrote: »

I was very surprised England got so far. The players are mostly strong fast but not technic gifted. They play a style like in their PL, but a 5th - 6th placed team.

The best player was the goal keeper. Without winning many dead balls, Kane became nothing, and Rashford, Lindard, Dele and others like them are ponies with one trick. No player has imagination, or creation. The defenders are mostly ordinary.

They are young and will get better, but they need a coach with technical mind. And some midfield players with intelligence.

I'm not surprised at all, England are very limited but the teams they played where awful .
They got beat by Belgium and Croatia only decent sides they played
, Id expect Ireland to beat or at least bring the other sides they played to peno's

Loafing Oaf

Deleted User wrote: »

And some midfield players with intelligence.

These don't grow on trees you know. So the question for the England manager is do you go with the nearest you have to this type of player, Shelvey or whoever, or do you go the Southgate way and devise a system that doesn't require one? Maybe it'll work out much the same either way...

Hitchens

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Anyone think the ref made right cock up last night,
I think VAR where still checking the peno incident at the end of the first half but when the Ref blew the whistle for half time , So there was nothing the ref could of you can't give a peno when the whistle for a half is ended,
As it was 100% a peno. imagine the outcry if that was against England

Yeah, he also missed the Croatian first goal incident where the scorer almost decapitated Kyle Walker with a high boot.

Hitchens

Hitchens wrote: »

Yeah, he also missed the Croatian first goal incident where the scorer almost decapitated Kyle Walker with a high boot.

I missed that also :pac:

yourdeadwright

Hitchens wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Anyone think the ref made right cock up last night,
I think VAR where still checking the peno incident at the end of the first half but when the Ref blew the whistle for half time , So there was nothing the ref could of you can't give a peno when the whistle for a half is ended,
As it was 100% a peno. imagine the outcry if that was against England

Yeah, he also missed the Croatian first goal incident where the scorer almost decapitated Kyle Walker with a high boot.

No no ,
Watch again Walker is a sleep and throws himself at it with his head after Perisic made the move to flick it,