The 2018 World Cup Superthread

gimli2112

I've no major gripe against the English but if they won this the media would be insufferable.

Drumpot

gimli2112 wrote: »

I've no major gripe against the English but if they won this the media would be insufferable.

Their media are insufferable whether they win or lose. Completely unbalanced both ways and lacking in objective clarity. Linekar eluded to it on that BBC documentary.

Difference is that when they win their smugness and self centered self fellatio is so annoying. If they lose we can ignore it as they tear apart an individual manager for not fulfilling their unreasonably childish expectations!!! It’s quite pathetic and sad either way....

But I want to see Southgate do well. He represents everything that the media doesn’t. He’s grounded, humble and positively realistic...

eagle eye

The one good thing about England this year is that they have a couple of guys who wouldn't be VIPs.
I'm talking about Maguire, Trippier and Lingard who should all be starting. I think that a couple of players like them who keep the head down and keep working make a big difference.

LuckyLloyd

They should go physical, leverage their athleticism. Press high up the pitch and play a high energy physical style with lots of width. If they try to keep possession and play some sort of cultured game plan they'll be gone before the last 8.

yourdeadwright

So after the weekends games ,
Does any one see one of the big teams coming unstuck in the group stages ?
Iv a feeling Argentina and Brazil will now struggle to get out of there group , I think Germany will win there next two,
It's mad teams not playing City players in my view they where the best team in the whole of Europe last season, Fernandinho should be starting for Brazil and Gundagan for Germany,  don't even get me start on Sane not being picked utter madness,

NIMAN

Can't believe how ordinary Germany and Brazil looked yesterday.

I know they'll likely get their act together and improve, but they were bang average in their games.

A lot of respect to Mexico and the Swiss, for showing no fear and having a go at them.

yourdeadwright

rob316 wrote: »

Drumpot wrote: »

I want to see England do well. Southgate seems like a very likable character and very much the opposite to the hype boll*x that usually surrounds the England camp.

There is no really unlikable English player. Ali is annoying but not in the media darling sense whereby he’s overhyped like so many English players in the past. They have a very humble captain in Kane. A young inexperienced team with little to no expectation. They aren’t building themselves up.

After watching that BBC documentary on English managers and being reminded how badly they treat them in England I would love to see somebody like Southgate make up for his 96 heartache.

I think a successful world cup for them would be the quarter finals. The midfield is the big problem, Henderson, Ali, Lingard are just not good enough and will be found technically limited against the more cultured European midfielders.

England should learn from Liverpool and by pass there midfield as much as possible (its so weak) , High intensity football would suit them going from back to front quickly ,

GavRedKing

Casemiro, even though i really cant stand him, is a better DM than Fernandinho, hes vital to Real and Brazil, IMO to bring some balance.

I've no doubt Fernandinho can do a job but I'd play Casemiro over him all day.

Theres not many players in the world better than Casemiro at what he does, neither Fernandinho or Casemiro are suited to playing the roles Couthino and Paulinho are tasked with for Brazil so one of them will miss out.

pjohnson

GavRedKing wrote: »

Casemiro, even though i really cant stand him, is a better DM than Fernandinho, hes vital to Real and Brazil, IMO to bring some balance.

I've no doubt Fernandinho can do a job but I'd play Casemiro over him all day.

Theres not many players in the world better than Casemiro at what he does, neither Fernandinho or Casemiro are suited to playing the roles Couthino and Paulinho are tasked with for Brazil so one of them will miss out.

Tbf Fernandinho would probably be better than Paulinho but then 2 DM's for Brazil on the pitch together would be very unpopular for Tite.

GavRedKing

pjohnson wrote: »

Tbf Fernandinho would probably be better than Paulinho but then 2 DM's for Brazil on the pitch together would be very unpopular for Tite.

Ya, thats the issue.

If push came to shove I could see Paulinho being dropped, in that starting XI, hes probably the weakest link, well, himself or Danilo.

I know Alves is 34 or 35 but hes a considerably better option than Danilo and the injury has curtailed their attack on the right, Willian could have easily covered Alves, like he done for Danilo pretty much all last night while offering a viable threat from RB.

Boom_Bap

GavRedKing wrote: »

Ya, thats the issue.

If push came to shove I could see Paulinho being dropped, in that starting XI, hes probably the weakest link, well, himself or Danilo.

I know Alves is 34 or 35 but hes a considerably better option than Danilo and the injury has curtailed their attack on the right, Willian could have easily covered Alves, like he done for Danilo pretty much all last night while offering a viable threat from RB.

There isn't much wrong with Brazil, I think that they were relying too much on Neymar yesterday and under utilised Willian.
They weren't really playing to Jesus' strengths either.
A couple of tweaks and they will get going.

5star02707

Kalinic sent home after refusing to come on as a substitute.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-cup/2018/06/18/croatia-forwardnikola-kalinic-sent-home-2018-world-cup-refusing/

To be fair we don't really know if he really has a back problem or he simply just doesn't want to play on the 85th minute. Bit harsh if he really has a back problem that didn't convince his manager

Loafing Oaf

NIMAN wrote: »

Can't believe how ordinary Germany and Brazil looked yesterday.

Danny Murphy put forward a theory on MOTM that the top, top, top, top players (to quote Rogers) need to be playing regularly to keep their mojos ticking over and the gap between end of season and WC kickoff throws their machinery slightly off kilter, whereas it doesn't make much odds to the water carriers...

eagle eye

What I don't like with Brazil is playing Neymar and Gabriel Jesus together. You are not going to get much from either of them defensively. Neymar tried hard yesterday but he just doesn't have a clue how to defend.
I think playing Neymar as a false nine and bringing in Douglas Costa would make for a better attacking threat.

MagicIRL

Quality world cup so far. The only thing its missing is an absolute banger like Waka Waka by Shakira.

I hope Mexico keep up that blistering counter attacking style for the whole tournament because it was so entertaining and fun to watch!

Gbear

Paulinho and Casemiro are largely passengers in possession.
They can fit in fine but neither are going to get on the ball and give the 3 behind the striker the chance to get into space where they can receive the ball and actually cause a threat.

It's madness to me that Fernandinho doesn't start.

I think it's even worse if you're not playing Firmino, because his work in midfield would help to alleviate that problem as well.

They don't need to play Casemiro and even if they play both him and Fernandinho, it won't be any more stodgy than what we saw yesterday.

Mokuba

England could go all the way.

All of the favourites so far have been poor, with the exception of Spain who showed a few holes themselves.

Not only that, but most of them are now threatening to end up in the same side of the knockout stages.

England have no hype, a squad with good chemistry. None of the egos of the past. A clearly defined system and way of playing. Options off the bench. A humble manager.

Disregarding all the "this is our year" or "it's coming home" memes - this time I think it really could come home for them.

jmayo

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

What? Absolutely not. I get what you're saying but no. It's a World Cup for countries. Tough sh1te if the good players couldn't get their country to qualify.

Your list is also 4 Italians and if they couldn't get their country to a WC then that's on them. Its not as if they had a terrible squad. They were just poor.

5 Italians on my count and as a Juve fan it would be nice to see the 4 lads reunited one last time.
Of course they would have to have a nap half way through as the average age of that defense would be 37 or something.

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Worst defeat the Germans had in Russia since 1944

I am kinda sad that the organisers sent England to Volgograd and Kaliningrad rather than the Germans.
Just goes to reaffirm Putin hasn't really been in charge of everything.

The sun could have ran headline that the last time the Germans were there they lost 300,000.

charolais0153

Gbear wrote: »

Paulinho and Casemiro are largely passengers in possession.
They can fit in fine but neither are going to get on the ball and give the 3 behind the striker the chance to get into space where they can receive the ball and actually cause a threat.

It's madness to me that Fernandinho doesn't start.

I think it's even worse if you're not playing Firmino, because his work in midfield would help to alleviate that problem as well.

They don't need to play Casemiro and even if they play both him and Fernandinho, it won't be any more stodgy than what we saw yesterday.

Casemiro is better than fernandinho. He therefore plays. Paulinho is an 8. Fernandinho is not. Hardly madness
You could make a case for firmino for jesus but they're both much and muchness. Firmino should get the nod the next day to see how he's going

Will I Am Not

Mokuba wrote: »

England could go all the way.

All of the favourites so far have been poor, with the exception of Spain who showed a few holes themselves.

Not only that, but most of them are now threatening to end up in the same side of the knockout stages.

England have no hype, a squad with good chemistry. None of the egos of the past. A clearly defined system and way of playing. Options off the bench. A humble manager.

Disregarding all the "this is our year" or "it's coming home" memes - this time I think it really could come home for them.

Not a chance.

charolais0153

yourdeadwright wrote: »

So after the weekends games ,
Does any one see one of the big teams coming unstuck in the group stages ?
Iv a feeling Argentina and Brazil will now struggle to get out of there group , I think Germany will win there next two,
It's mad teams not playing City players in my view they where the best team in the whole of Europe last season, Fernandinho should be starting for Brazil and Gundagan for Germany,  don't even get me start on Sane not being picked utter madness,

If everyone is fit. Gundogan doesnt start for city. Sane hasnt done it for Germany like sterling hasnt done it for england.
Brazil Will improve if neymar isnt hacked down every time they attack.
If messi scored the peno argentina would have probably won. Cant see them getting to the final and will probaly get knocked out in quarters.
It would be foolish to disregard germany against a very good tactically mexixan side.get to semi-s.

charolais0153

Good tempo to the game so far. South korea are a LOT better than i expected. They also have son who i thought was a jap.

Gbear

charolais0153 wrote: »

Casemiro is better than fernandinho. He therefore plays. Paulinho is an 8. Fernandinho is not. Hardly madness
You could make a case for firmino for jesus but they're both much and muchness. Firmino should get the nod the next day to see how he's going

Casemiro is better at disrupting play but Fernandinho is on a different planet in terms of quality on the ball, and if Brazil are attacking a set defence for 80% of the game, quality on the ball is far more important.

To be clear, there's nothing wrong with Paulinho or Casemiro. It's not about them being bad at their job. It's about not having the right blend of skill sets.
You only have to see the set ups they're in at club level to see where their niche is and what's missing.

Boom_Bap

Paulinho/Casemiro/Fernandinho...it's a bonus that Brazil have those options.

rob316

Mokuba wrote: »

England could go all the way.

All of the favourites so far have been poor, with the exception of Spain who showed a few holes themselves.

Not only that, but most of them are now threatening to end up in the same side of the knockout stages.

England have no hype, a squad with good chemistry. None of the egos of the past. A clearly defined system and way of playing. Options off the bench. A humble manager.

Disregarding all the "this is our year" or "it's coming home" memes - this time I think it really could come home for them.

No chance. Humble manager maybe, but not a very good one lets be honest.

Sweden all over the shop but only because South Korea are playing all around them.

Only 15 minutes in though.

Ultimate Seduction

Almost every world cup the big teams start slow. What's this big panic like it's never happened before. I've seen Senegal tipped as dark horses FFS calm down

raiders11

Surprised at the colour the ref is wearing in this game.

Fantastic point blank save there to stop Sweden from scoring.

tastyt

Yes England are humble, and the reason is the have a lot to be humble about.

No experience in goals, a defence with a howler in every single player, no real leader at the back, they dont have one midfielder who can pass the ball. Granted they have a front 2/3 capable of getting a goal.

When the English media are going with the " great camaraderie and mood in the squad " angle, you know they're grasping at straws.

If they run into one of the top teams they will get the runaround

tastyt

Yes England are humble, and the reason is the have a lot to be humble about.

No experience in goals, a defence with a howler in every single player, no real leader at the back, they dont have one midfielder who can pass the ball. Granted they have a front 2/3 capable of getting a goal.

When the English media are going with the " great camaraderie and mood in the squad " angle, you know they're grasping at straws.

If they run into one of the top teams they will get the runaround

Mokuba

Like the top teams have been giving Iceland/Mexico/Switzerland/Australia the runaround?

Sweden have very much played themselves back into this game, after a dodgy opening 15 minutes, and will not want to hear the half time whistle.

ERG89

Mokuba wrote: »

Like the top teams have been giving Iceland/Mexico/Switzerland/Australia the runaround?

Maybe wait until England at least play & after more than one game to judge teams.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sweden have very much played themselves back into this game, after a dodgy opening 15 minutes, and will not want to hear the half time whistle.

Thought both sides have been sloppy & limited so far. Korea are nullifying their own best player effectively.

razorblunt

I'm a fan of VAR but that should have been given in real time.
Will the match clock be reset to the time of the foul?

VAR got that one right.

Penalty to Sweden.

1-0 to Sweden.

raiders11

razorblunt wrote: »

I'm a fan of VAR but that should have been given in real time.
Will the match clock be reset to the time of the foul?

Ref had some view of it too in real time but at speed he seen it, was probably hard know who got the last touch

razorblunt

razorblunt wrote: »

I'm a fan of VAR but that should have been given in real time.
Will the match clock be reset to the time of the foul?

I dunno.

The ball changed direction before contact and I thought it was no penalty as I thought the defender got a toe to it.

VAR showed that is was the attacker that changed the direction of the ball therefore penalty awarded.

Trigger

One of the instances that show VAR can work, no hope in knowing who touched that ball in real time.. looked like a great challenge initially

yourdeadwright

Gbear wrote: »

Paulinho and Casemiro are largely passengers in possession.
They can fit in fine but neither are going to get on the ball and give the 3 behind the striker the chance to get into space where they can receive the ball and actually cause a threat.

It's madness to me that Fernandinho doesn't start.

I think it's even worse if you're not playing Firmino, because his work in midfield would help to alleviate that problem as well.

They don't need to play Casemiro and even if they play both him and Fernandinho, it won't be any more stodgy than what we saw yesterday.

Iv been saying this  I don't care if the other to play for Barca and Madrid they haven't a patch on Fernandinho , is is so under rated its unreal ,

Oh my.

Super chance at the death for South Korea but header way off target.

GavRedKing

One thing thats a welcome change to the WC is the amount of added time seems to be more realistic.

Nearly every game has had 4 or 5 minutes added on at the end.

dfx-

astradave wrote: »

One of the instances that show VAR can work, no hope in knowing who touched that ball in real time.. looked like a great challenge initially

If you can't tell in real time, it's not that bad a decision to give it or not give it either way.

'Not bad' decisions shouldn't be changed by replays or slowmotion.

Trigger

dfx- wrote: »

If you can't tell in real time, it's not that bad a decision to give it or not give it either way.

'Not bad' decisions shouldn't be changed by replays or slowmotion.

It’s a foul and the correct decision was made.. Why should a team be punished for playing at a high speed.

StringerBell

Getting Paulinho out of that Brazil starting line up for Firminho would be a good start, Casemiro and Fernandinho in behind Neymar, Firmino, Willian and Jesus or even dropping Willian out for Firminho, hell get Jesus out of there for Firminho. Basically just get him in the team.

---

England could have a decent shout as outsiders to have a good run in the tournament.

---

VAR worked, still took way too long but it worked in terms of getting the decision right, not sure how the ball was considered in a neutral area when it was 18/20 seconds later and Korea were entering Sweden's final third

GavRedKing

I think Tite has been playing 4-3-3 with Brazil since qualifying.

If he did bring in Casemiro and Fernandinho and went 4-2-3-1, push Coutinho into the #10, Firmino wide left, Willian right and Neymar through the centre, I think theyed be better served, especially against better sides who might try to pick them off at the break as theyed have two wide players well able and willing to get up and down the flanks.

Its more of a fantasy football scenario though as I think Neymar through the middle on his own would probably stunt his influence too much.

Gbear

GavRedKing wrote: »

I think Tite has been playing 4-3-3 with Brazil since qualifying.

If he did bring in Casemiro and Fernandinho and went 4-2-3-1, push Coutinho into the #10, Firmino wide left, Willian right and Neymar through the centre, I think theyed be better served, especially against better sides who might try to pick them off at the break as theyed have two wide players well able and willing to get up and down the flanks.

Its more of a fantasy football scenario though as I think Neymar through the middle on his own would probably stunt his influence too much.

You'd just have Firmino through the center and Neymar on the left in that lineup.

mailburner

who's that bird on rte who says you know in every single sentence?

ERG89

yourdeadwright wrote:

Iv been saying this I don't care if the other to play for Barca and Madrid they haven't a patch on Fernandinho , is is so under rated its unreal ,

He played there vs Germany 4 years ago so playing him there doesn't fix everything.

Gbear

ERG89 wrote: »

He played there vs Germany 4 years ago so playing him there doesn't fix everything.

Different context entirely.

You might well go for a tougher, more athletic midfield against Germany, but they weren't playing Germany, and their issue wasn't a porous midfield but one with little capacity to support and provide a platform for attack.