The 2018 World Cup Superthread

bucketybuck

Might as well say it because plenty of others will, but there is some difference between Messi and Ronaldo when it comes to international level.

Never mind the goals, Messi was sulking around with his head down all night. Ronaldo might moan but at least he gets involved with his teammates.

eagle eye

I said before the tournament began that the Peru manager should be managing Argentina.
Obviously Simeone would be the dream manager for them but he doesn't seem to have any interest. Best man they have for the job that would be interested is Ricardo Gareca and he is really good.

MD1990

Ronaldo never gives up.

Looked like Messi gave up tonight

DenMan

Arsene Wenger would be great for Argentina.

corny

bucketybuck wrote: »

Might as well say it because plenty of others will, but there is some difference between Messi and Ronaldo when it comes to international level.

Never mind the goals, Messi was sulking around with his head down all night. Ronaldo might moan but at least he gets involved with his teammates.

They both score goals and Messi is wonderful with the ball at his feet but i'd take Xavi, Zidane, Pirlo, etc all day ahead of them.

Messi did nothing but stand still the entire game. Your captain and best player should at least try to effect the game. Blaming the players around him is a complete cop out.

RobertKK

If I was the ref I would have given Otamendi a red card for that disgusting kick of the ball towards Rakitic 's head at close range.

GavRedKing

Who'd have guessed losing Romero would be so costly for Argentina?

Although, truth be told, I could have guessed he was going to f**k up at some stage.

Argentina were like a Sunday League side tonight it looked like they never trained together at all and you have to question Sampaolis tactics and selection.

If Iceland pick up any points tomorrow, they'll in pole position to finish 2nd.

RobertKK

It looks like Ronaldo inspires his team mates, Messi seems to fail to do it with his international team mates.

ThunbergsAreGo

Messi needs to take a lot of blame for that, his squad just didn't perform

And when the going got tough he was Gerrard at his worst, trying to do everything but achieving nothing

Benteke

Ronaldo would have struggled in this Argie side, This Ronaldo - Messi comparison is getting ridiculous, Both play for different sides and this Argie team is the worse in my lifetime

Alonso77

South American football is finished according to Dunphy.

Another one to add to his deathlist

blueser

elefant wrote: »

How is Mark Lawrenson paid to do this?

I'll see your Lawrenson and raise you Ronnie Whelan. Or Glenn Hoddle. Or Brian Kerr.

Benteke

Benteke wrote: »

Ronaldo would have struggled in this Argie side, This Ronaldo - Messi comparison is getting ridiculous, Both play for different sides and this Argie team is the worse in my lifetime

Don't know what your lifetime is, but I've seen them reach, and win, World Cup finals with worse teams.

But with Maradona.

gmisk

blueser wrote: »

I'll see your Lawrenson and raise you Ronnie Whelan. Or Glenn Hoddle. Or Brian Kerr.

I like Brian Kerr tbh the rest are garbage

ERG89

naughtb4 wrote:

Messi needs to take a lot of blame for that, his squad just didn't perform

Sorry but blaming him for the defending, goalkeeping & midfield is a bit much. The squad is terrible. Even some of their better players like Aguero & Higuain have never done anything in an argentine shirt.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Don't know what your lifetime is, but I've seen them reach, and win, World Cup finals with worse teams.

But with Maradona.

I doubt he'd get far with a team so bad the hopeless case Otamendi is one of their best defenders.

Alonso77 wrote:

Another one to add to his deathlist

Italy, Spain, Germany, street smarts, kids playing in said streets, Irish football, Ireland in general.
I'm missing a lot I'm sure

blueser

gmisk wrote: »

I like Brian Kerr tbh the rest are garbage

Kerr talks sense. But that accent! It's real "nails down the blackboard" stuff for me.

bucketybuck

Benteke wrote: »

Both play for different sides and this Argie team is the worse in my lifetime

Yeah, thats going to be the excusenarrative. But we also see the quality Ronaldo plays with at international level and I'd happily claim that Argentina can muster a squad every bit as good as anything Ronaldo is captaining.

I genuinely think its a shame, Messi should be considered one of the two best ever, and he will be, but there will always be that question of what he does outside that cushy Barcelona bubble or when things aren't put on a plate for him. And I remember his performances at the last world cup (and **** no they did not merit player of the tournament), and now his no-show here and its hard to defend them.

ArielAtom

Feel sorry for Messi, I mean Willy Fcuking Cabellero as your 1st choice😂. Otamendi and a washed up Mascherano to boot, even the great powder powered Diego would not have saved them!!!!

Benteke

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't know what your lifetime is, but I've seen them reach, and win, World Cup finals with worse teams.

But with Maradona.

Old enough to know I have not seen worse than this side, Argies always had decent players behind the forward line, They could not pass water, I see now why they struggled to get to the WC, No strikers including Maradona would have done anything tonight, They just never got the ball

rob316

Didn't Messi already quit international football before? Don't think he's bothered

bucketybuck

ERG89 wrote: »

I doubt he'd get far with a team so bad the hopeless case Otamendi is one of their best defenders.

ArielAtom wrote: »

Feel sorry for Messi, I mean Willy Fcuking Cabellero as your 1st choice��. Otamendi and a washed up Mascherano to boot, even the great powder powered Diego would not have saved them!!!!

Football is a fickle beast. PL team of the year as he helped City stroll to the title, now Otamendi is a hopeless case.

Ultimate Seduction

shamrock55 wrote: »

Ah come on now Portugal had 3 shots on target,one a free kick and one a pen,drama at the end but that's about it

If a 3 - 3 draw with a late equalizer from a free kck doesn't entertain you then you may as well not watch the rest of this tournament.

FourFourRED

ArielAtom wrote: »

Feel sorry for Messi, I mean Willy Fcuking Cabellero as your 1st choice😂. Otamendi and a washed up Mascherano to boot, even the great powder powered Diego would not have saved them!!!!

To be fair, he was second choice. Tonight was just his 5th cap. Sergio Romero is injured.

I also don’t buy the “feel sorry for Messi” thing. He hasn’t performed that good either. Maybe things will change in game 3.

Benteke

bucketybuck wrote: »

Yeah, thats going to be the excusenarrative. But we also see the quality Ronaldo plays with at international level and I'd happily claim that Argentina can muster a squad every bit as good as anything Ronaldo is captaining.

I genuinely think its a shame, Messi should be considered one of the two best ever, and he will be, but there will always be that question of what he does outside that cushy Barcelona bubble or when things aren't put on a plate for him. And I remember his performances at the last world cup (and **** no they did not merit player of the tournament), and now his no-show here and its hard to defend them.

It's a team game always has been, Barca pass the ball forward, None of those argie players did that tonight, Even Aguero looked depressed, They were playing with crap tonight

HalloweenJack

Croatia played the game perfectly. they knew Argentina would have all the ball and just picked them off on the break. Modric's goal was outstanding.

Argentina were atrocious. They had so much of the ball but did sfa. Over-reliant on Messi but that's not his fault. As soon as Croatia scored, I couldn't see Argentina getting back into it.

Croatia were too well organised defensively that Argentina needed somwthing special to break them down and when Messi couldn't do it, they lost hope. I can't remember Subasic having to make a testing save. The longer it went on, you could see them giving up and then the indiscipline kicked in.

Sampaoli's subs were desperate, too. I haven't seen Argentina under Sampaoli but they were even worse than the Iceland game. I can honestly see him getting sacked before the last group game.

Messi has been dreadful

Benteke

Fred The Red wrote: »

Messi has been dreadful

In fairness so would Ronaldo in that Argie side they're a shambles, The manager looked clueless, His selections and subs were beyond baffling

Quandary

Messi in my opinion is and generally will be remembered as the greatest player of his generation, and I say that as a huge huge Ronaldo fan, but he was poor tonight.

However, listening to Dunphy would sicken your sh1t. If Ronaldo had produced the same performance he would have been sticking the boot in at every opportunity.

Joke of a pundit and he should be bounced out the door. He was mildly amusing for a few years but at this stage he's just an embarrassment.

Croatia are going to be a very very tough match for anyone. Seriously impressive performance from them tonight.

Ultimate Seduction

Messi should be dropped for Nigeria game.This "my team mates aren't on my level so I'll sulk" attitude can't be good for the team. He walked out on his country before he should have stayed retired

yabadabado

Benteke wrote: »

Old enough to know I have not seen worse than this side, Argies always had decent players behind the forward line, They could not pass water, I see now why they struggled to get to the WC, No strikers including Maradona would have done anything tonight, They just never got the ball

If they brought their best players and played to the squads strengths they could be a very decent side.Instead they played and lined up in a way that doesn't suit the players available.
Paredes should be starting for them and hes not even in the squad.

gimli2112

I wish there was an ignore button for Dunphy

corny

The Argie midfielders actually played alright. They certainly held onto the ball better than Croatia did and i'd say the possession stats were in their favour.

The problem for Argentina was their front players were stationary and when you're playing against a disciplined team at international level you need to work hard and move the ball fast.

Messi was actually the worst of the front players and let the players behind him down by standing still the entire time. Even the best midfielders in the world would struggle when there literally is no option in front of you.

Benteke

Benteke wrote: »

In fairness so would Ronaldo in that Argie side they're a shambles, The manager looked clueless, His selections and subs were beyond baffling

I don't believe that one bit

Argentina have a vastly superior squad than Portugal

Also, wtf has Ronaldo got to do with my post

Billy86

MD1990 wrote: »

Ronaldo never gives up.

Looked like Messi gave up tonight

That's kind of the problem with Messi, he just doesn't get it done in the big games enough.

Loafing Oaf

[QUOTE=yabadabado;107323594
Parades should be starting for them .[/QUOTE]

Not a line I thought I'd hear about this Argentinian side:P

ERG89

bucketybuck wrote: »

Football is a fickle beast. PL team of the year as he helped City stroll to the title, now Otamendi is a hopeless case.

Says more about the defenders in the league than it does him. Thankfully for everyone else in the league he didn't try blast the ball into them when they were on the ground like he did Rakitic. About the closest he got near a Croatian player all night.

Benteke

Fred The Red wrote: »

I don't believe that one bit

Argentina have a vastly superior squad than Portugal

Lay of the coke

yabadabado

Benteke wrote: »

Lay of the coke

What an odd response.

Billy86

Benteke wrote: »

Ronaldo would have struggled in this Argie side, This Ronaldo - Messi comparison is getting ridiculous, Both play for different sides and this Argie team is the worse in my lifetime

This Argentina team has considerably more talent than Portugal, didn't stop Ronaldo from scoring as many against Spain in one game as they did in the ten full games of their entire qualifying campaign.

In my opinion we may well actually be watching not two-of-the-, but the two best players of all time though, at this point.

Benteke

Benteke wrote: »

Lay of the coke

Strange repsonse

Benteke

yabadabado wrote: »

If they brought their best players and played to the squads strengths they could be a very decent side.Instead they played and lined up in a way that doesn't suit the players available.
Paredes should be starting for them and hes not even in the squad.

I have slated the manager, his decisions are baffling, The players they could not put 5 passes together before misplacing it, Dybala on the bench and to be the 3rd sub is another howler

Drumpot

SlickRic wrote: »

This is a fair point. However, Ronaldo can score a thousand ways. Portugal were dogshít yesterday, as bad a Argentina today, but he won them a game from a corner.

I wonder has Ronaldo’s drive for individual honors pushed him on as Messi sort of just leveled off?!!!

I remember being at united v Barca in 2008 semi final at Old Trafford. Bearing in mind Ronaldo is a few years older then Messi, I remember the anticipation of Messi during the game. There was a collective breath held whenever he got the ball and he made a very strong United defence look easily exposed. Messi had been injured aswell in the lead up to the game I think. Ronaldo’s impact (think he missed a peno at Barca in away game?!) at that time doesn’t feel like it was quite at the same level that Messi was rated at the time! (Back when Dunphy called Ronaldo a chancer or something stupid like that!).

I’m not saying this is obvious proof but for a long time I personally felt Messi was obviously a more talented player and Ronaldo was a harder working, competitive athlete. But of late it’s like Ronaldo is still pushing himself (ala Zlatan) and he might be able to play top level stuff for another 4 years.

Perhaps this is unfair on Messi but I think it’s because both him and Ronaldo are probably the greatest footballers to of graced the game that messi is being ruthlessly questioned. Quite different players but to have two absolute legends of their stature pushing each other has been a pleasure and something many fans don’t really appreciate. It doesn’t really matter who is better, they are both remarkable players, it’s just a shame we haven’t seen the best of Messi in Argentinian colors. I don’t think the quality of players around him is the problem, Messi is a god in the game and shouldn’t need players around him to at least stick out. Ronaldo sticks out in any team and that drive to succeed is perhaps what separates him in this trait.

Benteke

Billy86 wrote: »

This Argentina team has considerably more talent than Portugal, didn't stop Ronaldo from scoring as many against Spain in one game as they did in the ten full games of their entire qualifying campaign.

In my opinion we may well actually be watching not two-of-the-, but the two best players of all time though, at this point.

I like both I think their both up there as all time greats, Theirs a reason why the argies struggled to qualify for the WC and we seen it tonight, I would hate to be a forward playing for them because the players behind them are muck

Billy86

Billy86 wrote: »

In my opinion we may well actually be watching not two-of-the-, but the two best players of all time though, at this point.

It was great to see Maradona at another world cup,even if only as a spectator...

gucci

corny wrote: »

The Argie midfielders actually played alright. They certainly held onto the ball better than Croatia did and i'd say the possession stats were in their favour.

The problem for Argentina was their front players were stationary and when you're playing against a disciplined team at international level you need to work hard and move the ball fast.

Messi was actually the worst of the front players and let the players behind him down by standing still the entire time. Even the best midfielders in the world would struggle when there literally is no option in front of you.

Maybe we are making the same point, but Argentinas midfield shape was just completely absent, so they didnt seem to have a strategy of what to do with the ball?
Aguero may not move too much, but obviously bringing on Higuin meant little or no movement, why not go a bit longer?

Sampiolis Chile were all about the high press and energy, this team obviously doesnt have the legs for that, but they genuinely looked like they had no plan of what to do when they have the ball. The players need to take some of the blame for that, but there needs to be a plan. Usually after watching two games you might be able to make a guess at what the plan is, but im F**ked if i know.

Croatia are a very tidy team, well drilled and are able to play football or play rough, they didnt seem too bothered. The first goal was an epic howler, but argentina could be there another hour and not make a chance, so there was only going to be one winner.

ERG89

Portugal have a good keeper, an organised defence, talented midfielders but not great strikers bar the obvious one. A manager that knows what he's doing too.
Argentina had a poor goalie, mess of a defence, rudderless midfielders & too many striker options. Manager doesnt know their best squad much less startimg team. Personally would have brought Icardi to the tournament over Higuain or Aguero still. He'd have made no difference tonight.

Will I Am Not

gimli2112 wrote: »

I wish there was an ignore button for Dunphy

There is...

bucketybuck

Quandary wrote: »

Croatia are going to be a very very tough match for anyone. Seriously impressive performance from them tonight.

Perhaps strangely, I think they are a good team but will struggle for goals in the really tight games. I thought Mandukic looked pretty static tonight and there were times they offered very little going forward.

ThunbergsAreGo

ERG89 wrote: »

naughtb4 wrote:

Messi needs to take a lot of blame for that, his squad just didn't perform

Sorry but blaming him for the defending, goalkeeping & midfield is a bit much. The squad is terrible. Even some of their better players like Aguero & Higuain have never done anything in an argentine shirt.

He picked his mates to play, didn't get on with Icardi so he was dropped

citytillidie

sligeach wrote: »

Every chance Iceland v Nigeria is a draw. If it is, then Iceland are highly unlikely to beat Croatia, which means if Argentina beat Nigeria, then they'll finish second.

Group C will be finished before that, it could all depend on what happens there.

If Denmark happen to beat France i am sure you could see Croatia lay down and try to finish 2nd to play Denmark while also making sure Argentina are knocked out you should always take the chance of knocking out a *big* team if you have the chance