The 2018 World Cup Superthread

Billy86

Random fact for tomorrow's Nigeria/Iceland game: according to this website. for every individual Icelander in the world there are more Nigerians (337,768) than the entire population of Iceland (337,709).

Loafing Oaf

Deleted User wrote: »

Billy86 wrote: »

In my opinion we may well actually be watching not two-of-the-, but the two best players of all time though, at this point.

It was great to see Maradona at another world cup,even if only as a spectator...

He’s clearly followed benteke’s advice...

Quazzie

Billy86 wrote: »

Random fact for tomorrow's Nigeria/Iceland game: according to this website. for every individual Icelander in the world there are more Nigerians (337,768) than the entire population of Iceland (337,709).

Nigeria is Iceland squared :eek:

Corholio

I think the easy thing is to say 'Messi can't do it by himself' but to be honest he didn't even stand out when he had the ball like he usually does even in his average games for Barca. Even at 0-0 there was no threat from him, no spark when he had the ball. He ran 'heavy' with the ball, less fluid than usual.

corny

gucci wrote: »

Maybe we are making the same point, but Argentinas midfield shape was just completely absent, so they didnt seem to have a strategy of what to do with the ball?
Aguero may not move too much, but obviously bringing on Higuin meant little or no movement, why not go a bit longer?

Sampiolis Chile were all about the high press and energy, this team obviously doesnt have the legs for that, but they genuinely looked like they had no plan of what to do when they have the ball. The players need to take some of the blame for that, but there needs to be a plan. Usually after watching two games you might be able to make a guess at what the plan is, but im F**ked if i know.

Croatia are a very tidy team, well drilled and are able to play football or play rough, they didnt seem too bothered. The first goal was an epic howler, but argentina could be there another hour and not make a chance, so there was only going to be one winner.

They have the legs for it i'm just not sure the front players have the desire for that. I wouldn't be surprised if things aren't great behind the scenes and there definitely seems to be egos involved.

Without being spectacular Mandzukic worked himself to standstill for his team. Thats whats required. Even the dominant teams in this World Cup find it difficult to break down defences. Its the very highest level so thats to be expected. When your front players aren't interested in contributing to that effort the coach, the plan, the system are almost irrelevant. Messi was playing just behind Aguero and should have been the link man for the midfielders. He didn't show for it the entire game choosing instead to stand still and remove himself from the equation. I thought he was a disgrace tbh.

martyos121

Billy86 wrote: »

Random fact for tomorrow's Nigeria/Iceland game: according to this website. for every individual Icelander in the world there are more Nigerians (337,768) than the entire population of Iceland (337,709).

Unless Nigeria has a population 15 times larger than the world itself, I think that website is a little wide of the mark. :pac:

Unless I’m misreading the fact. The wording is a little odd.

764dak

Billy86 wrote: »

Random fact for tomorrow's Nigeria/Iceland game: according to this website. for every individual Icelander in the world there are more Nigerians (337,768) than the entire population of Iceland (337,709).

Nigeria's population is only around 580 times bigger.

shamrock55

~Rebel~ wrote: »

So all the actual football gets discounted because one of the teams didn't have more shots on target?

It was a fantastic display of a contrast in styles. Portugal aren't a team that will dominate posession and pepper the goal - it's not what they do. They're compact and organised, and take their chances when they come. Play to their strengths excellently. And they had plenty of brilliant football in there to boot, with one of the most singularly and yet efficiently dominant displays from a player i've ever seen from Ronaldo. Meanwhile, Spain played fantastic stuff, with beautiful passing moves, mixed with the fantastic bastardry of Costa.

Brilliant game.

It was a good game I said it was but brilliant no

NIMAN

Corholio wrote: »

I think the easy thing is to say 'Messi can't do it by himself' but to be honest he didn't even stand out when he had the ball like he usually does even in his average games for Barca. Even at 0-0 there was no threat from him, no spark when he had the ball. He ran 'heavy' with the ball, less fluid than usual.

I think he'll have one more game in an Argentina jersey and that'll be him done with them.

Then he can go back to hammering sides with good players around him.

yabadabado

Argentina played to their strengths and actually had a game plan then they would be decent but Sampaoli doesnt seem to have any clue what he wants to do.

Has he used the same starting 11 since he took over ?

GreNoLi

yabadabado wrote: »

Argentina played to their strengths and actually had a game plan then they would be decent but Sampaoli doesnt seem to have any clue what he wants to do.

Has he used the same starting 11 since he took over ?

Maloney said he's used 43 players and 6 systems since taking over.

Vincent Vega

Am I right in my understanding that anything less than a draw and a win for either Iceland/Nigeria in their remaining fixtures still leaves 2nd place up for grabs?
That is, in the unlikely event that Argentina can absolutely hammer Nigeria :pac:

gormdubhgorm

bucketybuck wrote: »

Might as well say it because plenty of others will, but there is some difference between Messi and Ronaldo when it comes to international level.

Never mind the goals, Messi was sulking around with his head down all night. Ronaldo might moan but at least he gets involved with his teammates.

And Ronaldo seems to encourage his team by example pure workrate.
For all his genius Messi needs others to do work around him.

Alex Ferguson said a few years ago (@8.10 below) he would always pick Ronaldo ahead of Messi if he had a choice.

Because Ronaldo would fit into any style of football at any level but Messi would only fit into the Barca style.

Seems that Ferguson was proven correct after this world cup.

Ferris_Bueller

That was an entertaining game tonight, definitely one that will be remembered from this world cup. Similar to when Germany hammered Brazil in 2014 albeit on a much smaller scale. Can't pin all the blame on Messi, but it's almost as if his heart isn't in it lately, it was the same when Barcelona lost 4-0 to Roma in the CL, his head was down and he looked as if he was fed up with it all. Not sure whether it is the pressure of it all or whether he is frustrated playing with lesser players than he was a couple of years ago but something isn't right. Apparently on Sunday the Argentina camp had a BBQ for fathers day for all of the squad and Messi just stayed in his hotel room for the whole thing, before the game you don't read too much into something like that but considering what went on tonight you'd have to wonder is he finished with Argentina after this WC.

Croatia were decent in fairness to them, arguably the team of the tournament so far but it is still very early days. Was quite a dirty game tonight but as a neutral it can be enjoyable watching a game with a bit of bite to it, Otamendi and Rebic could both arguably have been sent off at different stages.

gormdubhgorm

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Messi should be dropped for Nigeria game.This "my team mates aren't on my level so I'll sulk" attitude can't be good for the team. He walked out on his country before he should have stayed retired

He did qualify Argentina for the world cup in fairness to him with a hat-trick

Trigger

Really don’t know what Argentina were trying to do tonight, Macherano seemed to slot into the defence and they looked like they were playing 5-0-5, the time and space that Croatia were allowed in the middle of the park for the 2nd was unreal, it showed a replay from behind the goal and there was 5 Argentinians across the half way line and all static and not one tracking back, crazy tactics.

Going forward they were equally as bad, no one running the channels or trying to get in behind apart from Ageuro, silly decision to take him off so early.

Can’t see them salvaging 2nd place now but if they do they will be put to the sword again by whoever they face in the last 16.

eagle eye

Fred The Red wrote:

Also, wtf has Ronaldo got to do with my post

Argentina have a vastly superior squad than Portugal

I don't believe that one bit[/quote]
Can you tell me what Argentine midfielder is on the same level as William Carvalho, or Joao Moutinho?
Imo Argentina have a poorer midfield and defense to Portugal.

I'll criticise Messi for one thing and that's leadership, he just never comes across as a leader. Maradona was a leader, Ronaldo is a leader on his national team. They inspire those around them to better performances.

irishman86

bucketybuck wrote: »

Football is a fickle beast. PL team of the year as he helped City stroll to the title, now Otamendi is a hopeless case.

Its a sign of stupidity for me
Any excuse to say Argentina have a weak team, so they make up nonsense

irishman86

Benteke wrote: »

Ronaldo would have struggled in this Argie side, This Ronaldo - Messi comparison is getting ridiculous, Both play for different sides and this Argie team is the worse in my lifetime

Thats the excuse for failing to beat Iceland
Pathetic
Argentina have some of the top players in the world

Trigger

eagle eye wrote: »

Can you tell me what Argentine midfielder is on the same level as William Carvalho, or Joao Moutinho?
Imo Argentina have a poorer midfield and defense to Portugal.

I'll criticise Messi for one thing and that's leadership, he just never comes across as a leader. Maradona was a leader, Ronaldo is a leader on his national team. They inspire those around them to better performances.

Ever Benega easily, dunno why he wasn’t being played..

Vincent Vega

irishman86 wrote: »

Thats the excuse for failing to beat Iceland
Pathetic
Argentina have some of the top players in the world

For their lack of technical ability Iceland are a perfect example of efficient teamwork, in comparison to Argentina and their technically gifted individual players and poor cohesion.

Little shame in being unable to break down a 10 man defensive unit with ease. Argentina played pretty poor, but let's not sell Iceland short.

irishman86

Vincent Vega wrote: »

For their lack of technical ability Iceland are a perfect example of efficient teamwork, in comparison to Argentina and their technically gifted individual players and poor cohesion.

Little shame in being unable to break down a 10 man defensive unit with ease. Argentina played pretty poor, but let's not sell Iceland short.

How did i sell them short exactly
Compare the players its not even close. Messi and co were **** against Iceland and drew then were **** today and lost

Vincent Vega

irishman86 wrote: »

How did i sell them short exactly
Compare the players its not even close. Messi and co were **** against Iceland and drew then were **** today and lost

Because in competitive games Iceland have a pretty good defensive record for the quality of their individual players (7 goals conceded in 10 matches in WC qualifying) and it's a testament to their strength as a TEAM.

You seem to be focusing on individual brilliance, which means sweet fúck all if you can't work together as a team.

irishman86

Vincent Vega wrote: »

Because in competitive games Iceland have a pretty good defensive record for the quality of their individual players (7 goals conceded in 10 matches in WC qualifying) and it's a testament to their strength as a TEAM.

You seem to be focusing on individual brilliance, which means sweet fúck all if you can't work together as a team.

I'm pointing out this isnt a weak team. They were one of the faves to win it
They are just playing **** and cant cope with the pressure
You could say Meza is the only one who can hold his head up and say hes performed to some level
You seem to ignore the fact that a team with a forward line from Barca/Juve/Man City couldnt get past a goalkeeper who plays about ten levels below
Argentina always seem to have a manager to blame, ignoring Sampaoli actually has won at international level with Chile unlike the Argentine players and had to change his tactics for his forward trio

Vincent Vega

irishman86 wrote: »

I'm pointing out this isnt a weak team. They were one of the faves to win it
They are just playing **** and cant cope with the pressure
You could say Meza is the only one who can hold his head up and say hes performed to some level
You seem to ignore the fact that a team with a forward line from Barca/Juve/Man City couldnt get past a goalkeeper who plays about ten levels below
Argentina always seem to have a manager to blame, ignoring Sampaoli actually has won at international level with Chile unlike the Argentine players and had to change his tactics for his forward trio

I dunno, I wouldn't say I am ignoring it, I think its more that our definitions of what a 'good team' is seem to be somewhat different.

To me, a sign of a good team is synergy, getting a lot more out of an assembled group of players than would seem likely based on their individual merits.

You see it time and time again in club football, a bunch of world class players being brought together for their individual attributes, failing to deliver for a season or two before there's any sort of consistent form or shape to the team. It takes time to tweak things and for a sort of bond and consistent lineup, and style of play to form.

I don't think anybody would deny that Argentina have some exceptional players at their disposal, but for all their quality they have never really settled.

Sampaoli shouldn't take all the blame I agree, but 3 coaches in the qualifying campaign alone goes some way to explaining their lack of identity and focus as a team.

thebaz

maybe he will proove me wrong - ther is one game left - but Messi can never be considered a great like Pele and Maradonna - they did it on the biggest stage - Pele with a great team , Maradonna made his great - I'd have those two at the highest level , with possibly Ronaldo and Cruyff - Messi , Zidane and George Best just below - in the bazs greatest ever. (yes its a team game but we can play fantasy football

The Golden Miller

Was Riquelme being taken off in the 2006 World Cup against Germany the worst substitution of all time? Argentina have been hopeless since then. Went from being arguably the best and most cohesive international team in the world, to a team who can hardly string two passes together. That substitution which knocked them out of the 2006 world cup, has been compounded by one horrendous decision after another by the AFA. Had Pekerman left Riquelme on, he would have kept his job and Argentina could have built on the foundation he created, even if they had not won the 2006 World Cup. That team was going places, now we have such a stark contrast to the reality of one substitution

RobertKK

It is all about team spirit, look at Ronaldo when he was on the sidelines for the Euro's after he led them to the final. He drove that team on, he helped inspire and keep performances raised. You see passion with Ronaldo. That is what Argentina needed from Messi but it was not there, he didn't inspire his team, he didn't drive them on to better things,
Messi was a let down and his team mates can't be blamed for his lack of inspiration.

aidan24326

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Was Riquelme being taken off in the 2006 World Cup against Germany the worst substitution of all time? Argentina have been hopeless since then.

It may well have been, but I'm not sure what relevance that has to the current team?

RobertKK wrote: »

It is all about team spirit, look at Ronaldo when he was on the sidelines for the Euro's after he led them to the final. He drove that team on, he helped inspire and keep performances raised. You see passion with Ronaldo. That is what Argentina needed from Messi but it was not there, he didn't inspire his team, he didn't drive them on to better things,
Messi was a let down and his team mates can't be blamed for his lack of inspiration.

Messi didn't look interested for whatever reason, but the lack of team spirit or overall fight in the team can't just be blamed on him. The manager has questions to answer on that one. as do the rest of the players.

gimli2112

thebaz wrote: »

maybe he will proove me wrong - ther is one game left - but Messi can never be considered a great like Pele and Maradonna - they did it on the biggest stage - Pele with a great team , Maradonna made his great - I'd have those two at the highest level , with possibly Ronaldo and Cruyff - Messi , Zidane and George Best just below - in the bazs greatest ever. (yes its a team game but we can play fantasy football

Always think this is a bit unfair to Pele. I mean it's true but it shouldn't detract from how good he was. Think he also suffers from the fact there's not as much footage of him and the criticism he never did it outside of Brazil. (except for the 3 World Cups he won)
Maradona has always been a favourite of mine primarily for 86 and what he did at Napoli. I saw a documentary on Pele a while ago and he really was something. If you don't have Di Stefano in your GOAT team you'd probably lose.

ERG89

irishman86 wrote:

Thats the excuse for failing to beat Iceland Pathetic Argentina have some of the top players in the world

Other than Messi who are these top players?
Croatia are hardly World Cup favourites but there isn't one Argentina midfielder who you'd put in there's. Caballero was a decent keeper many years ago not now. Would any top side want Salvio or Meza in their starting XI. Otamendi is their best defender yet when ever City have a big game he'll get targeted by the opposition cause it worked for United and City once they bypass the strength of that team in midfield and attack. Cause he'll always misplace a pass or barge out of defence if under pressure. Last night he flew into the back of Mandzukic & tried to kick the ball point blank into Rakitic. Probably in frustration after he made Modric look look like Ronaldinho as he shimmied a shot around him.
It's probably the same with Banega who's done well with Sevilla although can't get in a team ahead of Enzo Perez and Mascherano who was outstanding at the last world cup but can't perform at this level. Higuain and Aguero haven't done enough in an Argentine shirt, ever. Neither have ever held down their place beyond 5 or 6 games. Di Maria's form after leaving real is now in such a place where he seems content being second choice at PSG.
It's great having striking options but only 2 can play at once as none of them can play as wingers as bad as their options are.

elefant

ERG89 wrote: »

Other than Messi who are these top players?
Croatia are hardly World Cup favourites but there isn't one Argentina midfielder who you'd put in there's. Caballero was a decent keeper many years ago not now. Would any top side want Salvio or Meza heavens starying no. Otamendi is their best defender yet when ever City have a big game he'll get targeted by the opposition cause it worked for United and City once they bypass the strength of that team in midfield and attack. Cause he'll always misplace a pass or barge out of defence if under pressure. Last night he flew into the back of Mandzukic & tried to kick the ball point blank into Rakitic. Probably in frustration after he made Modric look look like Ronaldinho as he shimmied a shot around him.
It's probably the same with Banega who's done well with Sevilla although can't get in a team ahead of Enzo Perez and Mascherano who was outstanding at the last world cup but can't perform at this level. Higuain and Aguero haven't done enough in an Argentine shirt, ever. Neither have ever held down their place beyond 5 or 6 games. Di Maria's form after leaving real is now in such a place where he seems content being second choice at PSG.
It's great having striking options but only 2 can play at once as none of them can play as wingers as bad as their options are.

The Perez inclusion is inexplicable. He was cack at Valencia for 2 years, a part of the Jorge Mendez money train that was almost relegated, and then was shipped back to Argentina. He's then partnered with a 34 year old midfielder who has played a handful of games in the Chinese league this year so far.

And put them up against Rakitic and Modric.

Shanotheslayer

Some absolute nonsense posted here in the last few pages.

1) Having great individual players doesn't make a great team. Argentina have probably the best selection of strikers in the world for a national team. The manager can't pick them all. Their midfield is a shambles and their back line isn't great either.

2) Somebody posted " Messi only picks his mates" as a dig. I'm 90% sure there was a huge issue at Madrid for awhile when Ronaldo wanted Coantrao to play at LB instead of Marcelo due to being Portuguese(perhaps somebody could correct me on this if its incorrect)

3) " Messi doesn't do it in big games" Ironically posted by some Manchester United Ronaldo fan boys. Just remember that header in Rome and get back in your box. Needless to say he's done it in plenty of big games. It's the same nonsense when Ronaldo doesn't score in a big game etc. Stupid posts and everybody knows they're big game players.

4) Messi lacks the leadership of Ronaldo I think this is probably down to him being what comes across as a quiet footballer. I don't think he's captain material but when you look at the squad the only other options are Marscherano and probably Otamendi

5) Messi is probably one of the greatest ever. But jesus christ it baffles me how he's so bad at penalties.

Ronaldo is stepping up massively this tournament and it's great to see hopefully he keeps it up and breaks some records.

Adamocovic

Obviously after last night the eyes are on Messi and the debate about Ronaldo v Messi picked up more legs.

I always wanted Messi to win the world cup but I think that ship is nearly long gone. Despite being a United fan always was on the side that Messi has the most natural ability and that was why I ranked him higher but as the years go by I'm switching my opinion.

Messi for a long spell I would say was the best, but overall I am moving towards Ronaldo. Messi has the natural ability but Ronaldo's work-rate and determination to improve his game, and keep himself fit is outrageous. Messi no doubt works hard too but Ronaldo is on a different level.

Most fans and pundits will always say Messi due to his beautiful skill but hearing the stories from past teammates I'm changing my mind. Roy Keane before said people make fun of him for being too concerned with his looks, but that his work-rate and commitment in training at United was one of the best. In early and staying late to perfect things when others clocked off. He earned his respect for that, despite them not having many similarities or conversations I think!

Evra during the week told the story of his determination. Saying it didn't matter about the sport, it was just how he did everything. He mentioned how Ferdinand once bet him at table tennis and the team had a laugh about it, since he hates losing he got on the phone and told his uncle to buy a table tennis table (looks weird written out), he then practiced for a week or two non-stop after trainings, came back and bet Ferdinand. Is a little thing but shows the type of character he has.

This could be Ronaldo's time to push on in the debate if he can continue scoring in this WC. It's crazy to think he's 33 and still absolutely dominating. He's just finished off a CL winning season with 44 goals in 44 games and now has 4 goals in 2 games in the WC. It's outrageous really.

Messi could prove me wrong here but I just believe Ronaldo will show more longevity in his career due to the way he looks after himself. And to me that would be the deciding factor of who I rate higher. Both outrageous talents we have been fortunate enough to watch these number of years.

osarusan

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

1) Having great individual players doesn't make a great team. Argentina have probably the best selection of strikers in the world for a national team. The manager can't pick them all. Their midfield is a shambles and their back line isn't great either.

This is what struck me last night. For all their wealth of talent up front, their midfield and defence really are poor.

And combine that with what seemed a total lack of organisation, and they just were not able to put any attacks together. Croatia just stayed disciplined and waited for them to cough up possession.

I don't know enough about the squad to know whether the manager is leaving out better players for whatever reason - Banega is one that struck me alright, but defensively I wouldn't know enough.

They struck me as a team whose main tactic would be to just get it up front to Messi, Aguero et al, and they will unlock the opposition defence, but that won't work enough at the highest level. And when it didn't work, they had no plan B at all.

The Golden Miller

Messi has been poor enough alright. But I've said it before, going back to when Maradona took over as manager, Messi has been playing under the constraints of a circus at Argentina, absolute shambles. No Argentine manager ever seems to have a plan or direction of play, headless chickens with a tactic of "give the ball to Messi". Still, this is the difference between Messi and Maradona, the latter was a leader and that will always separate the two imo. Maradona would have made something happen yesterday.

As for Ronaldo, his fanboys shouldn't be getting too far ahead of themselves. He was fairly lethargic after getting a header in the second game. Scored a good hat-trick in the first game, but if you dissect it it, it was a peno, a free kick (blast enough and one will go in now and again, fortunate with the timing) and a goalie howler. Reality is, Portugal won't win this tournament, and Ronaldo will be following Messi out with an even limper performance

Adamocovic

Find it gas that when we are fortunate enough to be watching not only one of the best in the world but two during the same period such bitter and childish rivalries grow from the footballing fans.

I know football is a rivalry sport but the Messi diehards, and Ronaldo diehards I both find as annoying as each other. Constantly trying to nit-pick and play down the achievements of both players, because there can only be one.

It's even funnier how loyal and personal these fans are to their champions as I doubt many Irish and British football fans are Madrid or Barcelona supporters. Maybe a bit of Portuguese or Argentinian blood in a few.

There's always going to be brilliant players in football to admire, but I doubt I will ever really see two that will dominate the footballing world for so long like they have.

gimli2112

I agree but it's the way of the internet. You'd want to see the Fedrerer and Nadal fans go at it sometime.

yourdeadwright

Last might was no surprise,
Anyone who backed Argentina before the tournament must be smoking crack,
They are a shambles and have been for about 3 years now, They have no team spirit or game plan,
If it was for a miracle run of game from Messi they wouldn't be in the thing, they have been pants for years now,

Shanotheslayer

gimli2112 wrote: »

I agree but it's the way of the internet. You'd want to see the Fedrerer and Nadal fans go at it sometime.

Federer on grass
Nadal on clay

That's an easy one :pac:

Billy86

3) " Messi doesn't do it in big games" Ironically posted by some Manchester United Ronaldo fan boys. Just remember that header in Rome and get back in your box. Needless to say he's done it in plenty of big games. It's the same nonsense when Ronaldo doesn't score in a big game etc. Stupid posts and everybody knows they're big game players.

4) Messi lacks the leadership of Ronaldo I think this is probably down to him being what comes across as a quiet footballer. I don't think he's captain material but when you look at the squad the only other options are Mascherano and probably Otamendi

I think the big games thing is tongue in cheek/taking the p*ss (certainly was in my post) but more pointing out that Mascherano though past his best now was a monumental leader in 2014, was a bit silly he didn't have the armband in for it all things considered.

Adamocovic

gimli2112 wrote: »

I agree but it's the way of the internet. You'd want to see the Fedrerer and Nadal fans go at it sometime.

Oh I'm well aware of that (Been part of that debate :P)

I found with that one, maybe just the people I'm chatting to but with time the fans have lost a bit of an edge in terms of the rivalry and now both seem happy to see the two of them back winning this late in their careers.

gimli2112

gimli2112 wrote: »

I agree but it's the way of the internet. You'd want to see the Fedrerer and Nadal fans go at it sometime.

Why can't they all just get along.

They can all agree that Nadal, Messi and indeed Ronaldo all seem to have benefitted enormously form the medical facilities and treatments available in the land of Alberto Contador!

Drumpot

Adamocovic wrote: »

Find it gas that when we are fortunate enough to be watching not only one of the best in the world but two during the same period such bitter and childish rivalries grow from the footballing fans.

I know football is a rivalry sport but the Messi diehards, and Ronaldo diehards I both find as annoying as each other. Constantly trying to nit-pick and play down the achievements of both players, because there can only be one.

It's even funnier how loyal and personal these fans are to their champions as I doubt many Irish and British football fans are Madrid or Barcelona supporters. Maybe a bit of Portuguese or Argentinian blood in a few.

There's always going to be brilliant players in football to admire, but I doubt I will ever really see two that will dominate the footballing world for so long like they have.

Argentina reminds me of holland over the years. I can’t remember How many tournaments have I thought both these countries might light up the tournament and how many times have they under performed.

Messi and Ronaldo are exceptional players, I really think people can’t really fathom how good they both are. I personally think Messi is more technically gifted but that Ronaldo has a drive and work ethic that’s head and shoulders above everybody else. It’s not insulting Messi it’s just awknowledging they both have different qualities.

I absolutely despise the attention that Ronaldo craves and the fact he makes everything about himself (isolating players he doesn’t like at Madrid). But this very toxic egotistical trait is part of his makeup and comes with the package (like Cantonas Kung fu kicks or Roy Keane and his vengeful vendettas). Some teams can use it to their advantage and Ronaldo can take all the spotlight/pressure while the rest of the team creates the environment for him to flourish.

Messi is a more likable player and is possibly not as driven or interested in the hysteria that surrounds things like world cups. I saw Messi live once and he was just a glorious sight to behold. Argentina are football mad so perhaps he simply finds Argentina his kryponyite. I really thought he looked like he was having a massive headache before the game yesterday.

Some people seem to think that Messi’s under performance for Argentina proves Ronaldo is better which is horsesh*t. If that’s the case Paul Scholes record for England makes James Milner a better player by default.

They are both exceptional players who have their qualities and deficiencies.

rob316

The way I see the two is Messi was born the best player of our generation always destined for greatness. I remember when Messi broke into the first team at Barcelona, you just knew this guy would be one of the best ever.

Ronaldo though took his professionalism and dedication to another level and is driven to be the best. He is in peak condition, a supreme athlete, not afraid to reinvent himself and adapt his style. After he went off in the Euro final he led from the touch line, encouraging his team to victory. You couldn't see Messi doing that.

They are the best players in the world but personality wise they are miles apart. One doesn't court publicity and is fairly reclusive. The other is a mega celebrity with an enormous ego and demands the center of attention.

As a Liverpool fan I try to hate on Ronaldo but I find it hard to. He annoys me with his diving and arrogance yes but it'll be a lesser game when he retires.

Adamocovic

For all the talk of Ronaldo and his ego, wanting attention and so on, his work off the field with charities and how he goes out of his way for fans I find to be brilliant.

Even that clip the other day of the young Portuguese fan in tears as he missed the squad getting on the bus, so Ronaldo comes out and gives him a hug, photo, and signs his jersey. Yes in the squad he may demand most of the attention, and likes the spotlight but off the pitch he seems like a good, kind and caring person.

Adamocovic

Adamocovic wrote: »

Even that clip the other day of the young Portuguese fan in tears as he missed the squad getting on the bus, so Ronaldo comes out and gives him a hug, photo, and signs his jersey. Yes in the squad he may demand most of the attention, and likes the spotlight but off the pitch he seems like a good, kind and caring person.

And always caught on camera too, which is useful.

The fact is, beyond carefully managed PR opportunities, we'll never know whether Ronaldo or Messi, or indeed Cruyff, Maradona or Pele were/are nicer to kids.

fyfe79

I agree with all of the above. I think Ronaldo is almost certainly the top athlete in the world today, across any sport – from a pure dedication to his profession, point of view. I will always think Messi is the better baller, but Ronaldo is far beyond driven to be the best.



Not often you get a Pantera reference into a football thread this early in the day - happy with that!

Guy:Incognito

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why can't they all just get along.

They can all agree that Nadal, Messi and indeed Ronaldo all seem to have benefitted enormously form the medical facilities and treatments available in the land of Alberto Contador!

Ronaldo clearly hasn't. Have you seen the size of him a while back?

Oh, you mean that Portugese lad , Cristiano?

Gbear

Looking back over the Argentina squads to the 2006 world cup, every year they've gotten a little bit worse, however, this has been the biggest drop off we've seen.
Yes, there are some players not getting on the pitch, and you can see how even part-timers can show some level of performance if they're drilled properly and play to their strengths, but Argentinian football is seriously in decline.

I'm baffled at their setup, really. Sampaoli has had success in previous jobs but I don't think it's even about trying to apply something that doesn't work with this set of players, so much as its just total bollocks.

It's unsurprising seeing the Ronaldo Messi spring up again but it really is a nonsense. One's the spearhead of a competent, well-drilled, wily and gritty team while one is trying to conduct an orchestra that's populated by drunks, invalids and children.
Ronaldo's capacity to score big goals at crucial moments has really come along in the past 5 years. As the volume of goals has started to trail off he's developed an economy of performance that's unique.
Because of Messi's style of play and role in the team that just isn't a thing he can do to the same extent. It's hardly a criticism that a guy who's a 5'8 playmaking wide forward can't be a target man.

It wasn't a million miles off that in 2014, where Argentina did have a structure, and then gave a half-fit Messi some kind of platform to tip himself out of his wheelchair, bang a goal in, or pull an assist out of his arse, before slumping over again, but they've nothing like that now.