The 2018 World Cup Superthread

Gbear

Gbear wrote: »

Argentinian football is seriously in decline.

Their teams in 1986 and 1990 were pretty awful. Apart from you know who and an aging Passarella and Valdano in 1986. In 1990, it was desperate, again relying solely on Maradona, and Claudio Caniggia who was as useful as Forrest Gump, he could just run and run, out of the football stadium and down the road.

BullBlackNova

For me, the most baffling thing about this Argentina side is that 13 months into his tenure there is that they look like they have no concept of how they should play.

There is no element of a system or a style, a formation, etc. He is chopping and changing from game to the next.

Most telling of that issue is Enzo Perez; had a bad season at River, wasn’t in the original squad, was on holiday when called up and had to do loads of work to get up to speed fitness-wise. He was never part of the plan and now he starts the second game?!

There's just no sense that anyone knows what they want the side to look like and I've no doubt that the starting XI for the next game will be a total change from the last one. It's panic mode.

I'm just stunned that a quick moving 4-3-3 isn't plan A - I know the full backs are weak, but it would surely get the best out of Biglia, Banega, Lo Celso, Messi, Aguero, Di Maria and others who play in such a manner at club level? Add in a decent, organised back 4 with a licence to overlap for the right or left back and you'd imagine they wouldn't embarrass themselves at least.

Gbear

Deleted User wrote: »

Their teams in 1986 and 1990 were pretty awful. Apart from you know who and an aging Passarella and Valdano in 1986. In 1990, it was desperate, again relying solely on Maradona, and Claudio Caniggia who was as useful as Forrest Gump, he could just run and run, out of the football stadium and down the road.

I was -3 and 9 months old respectively for those world cups so I have limited recollections, but from what I gather about 86, they were a hugely underrated team of grafting bastards who gave Maradonna a chance. There's also the bit where he blatantly cheated and got away with it.

If you didn't play a bunch of geriatrics and you had some sort of coherent system, maybe you could drop Messi in and you'd have something decent with this squad. That's kinda what they did last world cup.

Of course, you'd still have people downplaying Messi's role in it even if they'd won it (and they probably should have), because of tribalistic bollocks.

Looking where they were from 98 to 2010, they are seriously in decline. They had two brilliant generations, but I'm not sure what they're at now.

It's mostly diminishing returns at international level because coaches can't get their sides well gelled enough to leverage all that quality, but quality can often paper over the cracks a bit.

ERG89

https://twitter.com/FIFAWorldCup/status/1010110501098000389?s=19

Only change for Brazil is Fagner in for Danilo.

Adamocovic

Deleted User wrote: »

And always caught on camera too, which is useful.

The fact is, beyond carefully managed PR opportunities, we'll never know whether Ronaldo or Messi, or indeed Cruyff, Maradona or Pele were/are nicer to kids.

To be honest this is the type of response I alluded to early.

I never stated one person was nicer than the other, I just said for all the criticisms towards Ronaldo for being egotistical and self-absorbed, through his philanthropy and the way he carries himself when off the pitch he comes across to me as a nice guy.

To squash that down as simply carefully planned PR, and then try compare his "niceness" to others is ridiculous. Wasn't even brought into my point. Again I was saying that despite so many leading the narrative of him being a bit of a prick, mainly through how he carries himself on the pitch, for me he comes across as a nice guy off the field.

Adamocovic

If Brazil don't show up today we keep going on without a stand-out top team. Quite mad that none of the favorites have really shown up.

Continues like this and we could be in for a surprise for the final!

Gbear

Be interesting to see if that Brazil lineup works better against a team that's a bit looser at the back. Could maybe see those direct players getting into a bit more space and not having to dribble past an entire team to get a shot off.

It should be a pretty comfortable one for Brazil, but it feels like nearly every game where you've had a good team vs a minnow has been by the odd goal so far.

Adamocovic

Gbear wrote: »

Be interesting to see if that Brazil lineup works better against a team that's a bit looser at the back. Could maybe see those direct players getting into a bit more space and not having to dribble past an entire team to get a shot off.

It should be a pretty comfortable one for Brazil, but it feels like nearly every game where you've had a good team vs a minnow has been by the odd goal so far.

After yesterday need so of the predictions to go my way!

First up, Brazil 2-1 Costa Rica. A boy can dream.

Adamocovic

Adamocovic wrote: »

I never stated one person was nicer than the other, I just said for all the criticisms towards Ronaldo for being egotistical and self-absorbed, through his philanthropy and the way he carries himself when off the pitch he comes across to me as a nice guy.

To squash that down as simply carefully planned PR, and then try compare his "niceness" to others is ridiculous. Wasn't even brought into my point. Again I was saying that despite so many leading the narrative of him being a bit of a prick, mainly through how he carries himself on the pitch, for me he comes across as a nice guy off the field.

But the fact remains that you actually don't have the slightest idea what he's like off the pitch. And all we see of him, Messi, Ronaldo and all of them is carefully choreographed photo shoots.

And, my point was not that one was nicer than the other, obviously. It's that it's ridiculous to compare them on that basis at all. What does it matter? Who cared in the 80s and 90s whether Zico was nicer than Stoichkov? In this age of social media, it's like we feel this need for superstars to be nice as well, all Ed Sheerans. Once they don't break the law, they really should be judged on what they do on the pitch.

Adamocovic

Deleted User wrote: »

But the fact remains that you actually don't have the slightest idea what he's like off the pitch. And all we see of him, Messi, Ronaldo and all of them is carefully choreographed photo shoots.

Ok. So I can't form an opinion based off videos, autobiographies, and interviews? I guess the entire world shouldn't have an opinion whether they think anyone comes across nice or not without knowing them personally.

Again, my post stated that despite a lot of people forming the opinion that he is self-obsessed and a bit of an asshole, I actually think he comes across well.

Deleted User wrote: »

And, my point was not that one was nicer than the other, obviously. It's that it's ridiculous to compare them on that basis at all. What does it matter? Who cared in the 80s and 90s whether Zico was nicer than Stoichkov? In this age of social media, it's like we feel this need for superstars to be nice as well, all Ed Sheerans. Once they don't break the law, they really should be judged on what they do on the pitch

And again. Where have I ever compared any of the players based off "niceness"? You are the one who has brought other players into this. And I don't feel he has to be nice.

To reiterate again, and hopefully for the last time, I just stated how my opinion of him differs to that of people who find him self-obsessed, attention seeking, and unlikeable.

Adamocovic

Adamocovic wrote: »

I just stated how my opinion of him differs to that of people who find him self-obsessed, attention seeking, and unlikeable.

And my position is simply that judging him as self obsessed or attention seeking is equally as irrelevant as considering him to be a good egg.

Adamocovic

Haven't been betting on the World Cup this year (most good sites blocked in France), only work predictors, but had a look at the overall odds in the bookies.

-Brazil 17/4
-Spain 9/2
-France 15/2
-Germany 17/2
-Belgium 9/1
-England 12/1
-Croatia 16/1
-Portugal 20/1

Obviously doesn't mean too much as it's influenced by trends but it's mad to think that none of those teams have yet to really establish or showcase their claim for the trophy.

For a lot of teams they have their second game to prove their point but I'm looking at that and thinking, is it that crazy to consider Croatia? I know come knockout football things will change, but it hasn't even been the normal case of not taking chances for most, they have just been playing poor outright.

NIMAN

Anyone else remember when it used to be so exciting watching Brazil?

Now they are just like every other organised, hard working team. Very little flair or anything out of the ordinary.

Stop start nature of this game is infuriating. Neymar holding on to the ball unnecessarily and then moaning when he gets tackled. And Willian basically on the pitch to win free kicks.

I'd love to see them make an early exit.

LuckyLloyd

Adamocovic wrote: »

Haven't been betting on the World Cup this year (most good sites blocked in France), only work predictors, but had a look at the overall odds in the bookies.

-Brazil 17/4
-Spain 9/2
-France 15/2
-Germany 17/2
-Belgium 9/1
-England 12/1
-Croatia 16/1
-Portugal 20/1

Obviously doesn't mean too much as it's influenced by trends but it's mad to think that none of those teams have yet to really establish or showcase their claim for the trophy.

For a lot of teams they have their second game to prove their point but I'm looking at that and thinking, is it that crazy to consider Croatia? I know come knockout football things will change, but it hasn't even been the normal case of not taking chances for most, they have just been playing poor outright.

England at 12 / 1 is gas.

Boom_Bap

Why are Brazil wearing their away kit today, they are drawn as the home team I believe, plus there is no colour clash

NIMAN

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

England at 12 / 1 is gas.

Brazil are a joke too, they look poor for the 2nd consecutive game.

Adamocovic

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

England at 12 / 1 is gas.

To be fair if this tournament continues this way any of the teams there or not could get fortunate.

Personally, despite me choosing France in work as winners, find France at 15/2 gas. They have been brutal despite picking up 6 points.

Other than some flashes none of their star players have shown up. I know everyone says it's about picking up the points now and turning it on in the knockouts but normally that applied to teams just rusty and not taking chances.

They haven't been able to be in control of a game properly yet which has been the most worrying. At least England, albeit one game, controlled the match versus Tunisia, France have been so sloppy and finding themselves on the backfoot that it's a bit worrying.

God knows who we will get in the final!

Pete Moss

Boom_Bap wrote:

Why are Brazil wearing their away kit today, they are drawn as the home team I believe, plus there is no colour clash

According to the Football Weekly podcast, it's in tribute to Zenit St Petersburg who's stadium they are playing in.
Germany wore Flamengo's home colours as their away kit in the 2014 tournament.

Corholio

Brazil have started slow but only 30 min gone yet. Some of the cynical fouls have broke up the game so far.

StringerBell

Would it still be considered a controversial opinion to say Firminho should be in that team ahead of Jesus?

NIMAN

Corholio wrote: »

Brazil have started slow but only 30 min gone yet. Some of the cynical fouls have broke up the game so far.

I'd say some of the cynical diving is killing the game


Most of Neymar frees are actually as a result of great diving. He dives with every single tackle that's put in on him.

Corholio

NIMAN wrote: »

I'd say some of the cynical diving is killing the game


Most of Neymar frees are actually as a result of great diving. He dives with every single tackle that's put in on him.

Diving? I know it's Neymar and he's easy fodder for the fancy dan type player he is but he was constantly hacked in the Swiss game and he's been fouled a number of times in this game, clear as day fouls.

Richard Hillman

Brazil don't really look very cohesive. There's not much rhythm to their play. It's very slow and bit-party

Gbear

StringerBell wrote: »

Would it still be considered a controversial opinion to say Firminho should be in that team ahead of Jesus?

It never should have been, on account of Firmino being better at football.

ERG89

A few for Brazil not showing the confidence their manager showed them by keeping them in the side. Neymar is 26, should be coming near rhe prime of his career and is going to ground for every tackle fair or foul

NIMAN

Corholio wrote: »

Diving? I know it's Neymar and he's easy fodder for the fancy dan type player he is but he was constantly hacked in the Swiss game and he's been fouled a number of times in this game, clear as day fouls.

The one on the left wing when he flicked it over the head of the defender, and then went down, with Beglin looking for a yellow, watch it again and see just how easily he went down. There was the slightest touch on his arm and he fell like a ton of bricks.

These Brazilians dive with the best of them. Neymar is a master of the dive.

sligeach

I read this story over on BBC. Talk about an overreaction.

https://twitter.com/cworswick/status/1009382130059759616

World Cup: Binocular booze smuggling gets Colombian sacked

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-44561419

If that was Irish fans, there's no way someone would be sacked.

NIMAN

Willian is really annoying.
Diving ALL the time. With EVERY tackle.

If they need to do that to beat Costa Rica, they obviously aren't as good as they think they are.

Mushy

Pete Moss wrote: »

According to the Football Weekly podcast, it's in tribute to Zenit St Petersburg who's stadium they are playing in.
Germany wore Flamengo's home colours as their away kit in the 2014 tournament.

Or they can sell more jerseys if the team is playing in it

Stephen15

Boom_Bap wrote: »

Why are Brazil wearing their away kit today, they are drawn as the home team I believe, plus there is no colour clash

There some riddiculous Fifa regulation meaning one must wear a dark kit and the other must wear a light coloured kit

NIMAN

Stephen15 wrote: »

There some riddiculous Fifa regulation meaning one must wear a dark kit and the other must wear a light coloured kit

There must be a person still using B&W TV somewhere in the world.

ERG89

sligeach wrote: »

I read this story over on BBC. Talk about an overreaction.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-44561419

If that was Irish fans, there's no way someone would be sacked.

Not as dedicated as the Peru fan who gained 25kg to get a disabled seat as all the other ones were sold out

https://perureports.com/2018/06/15/how-one-fan-gained-a-bunch-of-weight-to-see-peru-play-in-the-world-cup/

NIMAN

Awful game.

People have laughed about Russia coming into the tournament, but at least they have a bit of pace and entertainment about them.

Brazil play for 1 nil victories these days.

MD1990

Brazil very poor . Team is wrong.

Firmino >> Jesus
Fernandinho/Fred >> Paulinho
Costa >>> Willian

Corholio

MD1990 wrote: »

Brazil very poor . Team is wrong.

Firmino >> Jesus
Fernandinho/Fred >> Paulinho
Costa >>> Willian

I'd have those 3 changes as well. Jesus played better in the games leading up to World Cup but Firmino suits the type of play much better.

Gbear

Serbia have a great chance of topping this group. They could easily beat Brazil based on this showing.

StringerBell

Pretty shocking miss all things considered

Gbear

**** me Neymar has been pathetic.
He's been so weak and slow. He looks half the player he should be.

sligeach

Ah here, that's not a penalty.

StringerBell

Well done VAR

Everything wrong with Neymar right there, chance to score and looks for the cheat way out.

jamesbere

Right call, we'll done ref

Brilliant, I'm really liking VAR

sligeach

Well done ref, correct decision to reverse the penalty given.

Thepoet85

This is joke, never seen as much diving at a world cup before.

spock.

No idea how neymar doesn't get booked there

NIMAN

Great to see a cheat found out.
VAR works again

StringerBell

spock. wrote: »

No idea how neymar doesn't get booked there

Ask and you shall receive, the child has been carded

Brazil are shocking at diving. Be great if they get knocked out

Deeper Blue

Delighted about that VAR call but how was Neymar not booked for diving?

Corholio

Right decision alright, frustration getting to the Brazilians here. It will work against them too because all the times they are genuinely fouled, which has been many, they won't get.