The 2018 World Cup Superthread

Spideog Rua

eigrod wrote: »

RTE unanimous that Ronaldo should’ve got red. I agree. Yellow was a cop out

But he didn't elbow him?? To me it looked like a foul and nothing more

eigrod

Spideog Rua wrote: »

But he didn't elbow him?? To me it looked like a foul and nothing more

Elbow, no. Arm in the jaw area, definitely. It’s as clear as anything in one angle.

murpho999

FourFourFM wrote: »

Give it a rest Chippy...

Why? What was wrong with what he said?

You obviously don't remember Ireland being robbed against Belgium for Mexico 86.

FourFourRED

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

He is right about the corruption

In the past yes.

No need to start making dramatic claims tonight. Boring sh**e

eigrod

FourFourFM wrote: »

In the past yes.

No need to start making dramatic claims tonight. Boring sh**e

In the past? Hiw very naive.

adox

Wouldn’t it have made more sense to not give the peno if the FIFA objective is to keep Ronaldo in the World Cup at all costs as Brady is intimating and saying that FIFA are inspecting the ref. I mean the ref giving that peno that wasn’t a peno has made Ronaldo’s progress in the competition a lot more difficult.

FIFA were and are corrupt, we all know that and I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they did set directives to the officials that the big players(not just Ronaldo) should be kept on the pitch as much as possible but the narrative by Brady and Co is bonkers imo.

corny

Tough gig for the ref. Shame all the talk is abut VAR. It should be about intimidating refs. The level of abuse he had to endure with **** even the strongest mans head. Despicable stuff.

I'm not fond of Ronaldo but if trying to get passed a man deliberately blocking you is a red card offence your sport is broken. The chap creating the confrontation wasn't even spoken to.

FourFourRED

eigrod wrote: »

In the past? Hiw very naive.

Talk about it if it’s been proven or even obvious. Until then, I’d rather watch analysis of the actual game. Not BS from a bitter old man.

Gbear

You could say there's 4 types of reffing errors.

Not Applying rules because of context:
Not giving bookings because a player is young, it's too early in a game or it's a final.

Applying rules inconsistently because of vague rules:
See the selection of handball penalties awarded/not awarded for or against Liverpool at the end of last season, and handballs in general.

Missing an event:
The Ronaldo "elbow" this evening, the Zidane headbutt.

Seeing something but calling it wrong:
Aspas' goal tonight.

VAR can only help with those last 2 errors. The others are cultural or down to poorly worded laws. Seeing them in slow mo might expose these decisions to everyone else (which might be good because it might lead to change), but unless reffing changes, they will still be inconsistent with how they make these calls.

VAR can't fundamentally change decision-making. It can only increase accuracy, but that's enough.

murpho999

FourFourFM wrote: »

Talk about it if it’s been proven or even obvious. Until then, I’d rather watch analysis of the actual game. Not BS from a bitter old man.

Old....he's 62 ffs and one of Ireland's greatest players.

What have you done in football?

eigrod

Gbear wrote: »

You could say there's 4 types of reffing errors.

Not Applying rules because of context:
Not giving bookings because a player is young, it's too early in a game or it's a final.

Applying rules inconsistently because of vague rules:
See the selection of handball penalties awarded/not awarded for or against Liverpool at the end of last season, and handballs in general.

Missing an event:
The Ronaldo "elbow" this evening, the Zidane headbutt.

Seeing something but calling it wrong:
Aspas' goal tonight.

VAR can only help with those last 2 errors. The others are cultural or down to poorly worded laws. Seeing them in slow mo might expose these decisions to everyone else (which might be good because it might lead to change), but unless reffing changes, they will still be inconsistent with how they make these calls.

VAR can't fundamentally change decision-making. It can only increase accuracy, but that's enough.

Didi Hamann called it right there...put 4 men in a room and for certain incidents in football games, they will have differing opinions. This thread alone is proof of that.

VAR will get some things spot on. Others will continue to cause debate - as it always was.

Will I Am Not

murpho999 wrote: »

Old....he's 62 ffs and one of Ireland's greatest players.

What have you done in football?

That’s ridiculous. Robbie Savage has done more in football than any of us.

Gbear

eigrod wrote: »

Didi Hamann called it right there...put 4 men in a room and for certain incidents in football games, they will have differing opinions. This thread alone is proof of that.

VAR will get some things spot on. Others will continue to cause debate - as it always was.

Which only shows up his notion that it will "kill the beautiful game", or however he put it, for the misty-eyed bollocks it is.

Nothing's changed for many types of call, although hopefully this will cause refs to be more consistent given that the outcry over them botching a handball or "reffing they occasion" is going to be stronger now that decisions will be made out of the heat of the moment and they'll have fewer excuses.

VAR was never supposed to solve every call.

It'll reduce poor calls and solve a lot of questionable decisions. Surely that's a good thing.

Liam O

Gbear wrote: »

Which only shows up his notion that it will "kill the beautiful game", or however he put it, for the misty-eyed bollocks it is.

Nothing's changed for many types of call, although hopefully this will cause refs to be more consistent given that the outcry over them botching a handball or "reffing they occasion" is going to be stronger now that decisions will be made out of the heat of the moment and they'll have fewer excuses.

It should be one man, watching the game in real time with access to replays and going back if he has to based on a challenge from a manager. The ref then wouldn't be spending 20 seconds jogging over and 20 seconds back with a potential minute in front of the screen.

Gbear

Liam O wrote: »

It should be one man, watching the game in real time with access to replays and going back if he has to based on a challenge from a manager. The ref then wouldn't be spending 20 seconds jogging over and 20 seconds back with a potential minute in front of the screen.

Just lift it wholesale from rugby. It's as near perfect as can be.

Transparent, clearly defined questions, the ref generally defers but has the final call and a big ol' screen for replays if available, to avoid jogging.

Akrasia

Gbear wrote: »

Just lift it wholesale from rugby. It's as near perfect as can be.

Transparent, clearly defined questions, the ref generally defers but has the final call and a big ol' screen for replays if available, to avoid jogging.

And automatic yellow card every time any player gets into a referees face and shouts at him. It was beyond ridiculous tonight.

764dak

Spain took the corner from the wrong side.  And the ref allowed it.
Video:

https://twitter.com/Younessbnda/status/1011341149842309120?s=19

patmac

Akrasia wrote: »

And automatic yellow card every time any player gets into a referees face and shouts at him. It was beyond ridiculous tonight.

This, only the captain should be allowed question decisions politely. ‘‘Twas a mad game, if Portugal had lost it would have been a travesty, but great craic.

GiftofGab

Thinking of heading to the Living Room Bar for Brazil match on Wednesday....just wondering how busy will it be?? Will I be able to get a pint or will it be too busy?? Anyone been for World Cup matches??

The Talking Bread

GiftofGab wrote: »

Thinking of heading to the Living Room Bar for Brazil match on Wednesday....just wondering how busy will it be?? Will I be able to get a pint or will it be too busy?? Anyone been for World Cup matches??

It will be absolutely jam packed of Brazilians. It is where they generally watch matches

Iused2likebusts

Hopefully messi turns it on tomorrow. Some of the stuff people are coming out with is ridiculous. 2 games in a WC has been given an awful lot of weight when deciding someone's legacy.

MarkY91

GiftofGab wrote: »

Thinking of heading to the Living Room Bar for Brazil match on Wednesday....just wondering how busy will it be?? Will I be able to get a pint or will it be too busy?? Anyone been for World Cup matches??

It's generally full of Brazilians during normal fuss and nights. I was there for England v Panama and it was jam packed, left standing at a bin. I wouldn't go near it for a Brazil game unless you're looking to check out some Brazilian ladies lol

The Golden Miller

MarkY91 wrote: »

It's generally full of Brazilians during normal fuss and nights. I was there for England v Panama and it was jam packed, left standing at a bin. I wouldn't go near it for a Brazil game unless you're looking to check out some Brazilian ladies lol

As good a reason as any :pac:

sligeach

Will I Am Not wrote: »

That’s ridiculous. Robbie Savage has done more in football than any of us.

So did Father Jack.

ERG89

sligeach wrote:

So did Father Jack.

He had trials with Liverpool didn't he?

sligeach

ERG89 wrote: »

He had trials with Liverpool didn't he?

"No, he was on trial in Liverpool."

IncognitoMan

That Ronaldo yellow should have been a yellow to the Iran lad for play acting. Can't believe that some ex-Pros think that's a red or that a Ref saw fit to book him.

I'm all for cutting reckless behavior out of football but Jesus, we'll be booking players for invading personal space soon.



Like seriously, what am I missing about it?

NIMAN

764dak wrote: »

Spain took the corner from the wrong side.  And the ref allowed it.
Video:
https://twitter.com/Younessbnda/status/1011341149842309120?s=19

Serious?

Do you know the rules of football at all? No point spoofing if you don't.

Spain did nothing wrong.:rolleyes:

NIMAN

IncognitoMan wrote: »

That Ronaldo yellow should have been a yellow to the Iran lad for play acting. Can't believe that some ex-Pros think that's a red or that a Ref saw fit to book him.

I'm all for cutting reckless behavior out of football but Jesus, we'll be booking players for invading personal space soon.



Like seriously, what am I missing about it?

I didn't see the incident until this GIF, is this the thing that Liam Brady wanted Ronaldo red carded for?

If so, he must be going senile too.

There are a worrying number of players who have started holding their faces when they don't actually get touched on the face. The Iranian fella in this GIF for one. And I seen Isco do it at the start of the Spanish game tonight. Cheating of the highest order.

The Golden Miller

NIMAN wrote: »

I didn't see the incident until this GIF, is this the thing that Liam Brady wanted Ronaldo red carded for?

If so, he must be going senile too.

There are a worrying number of players who have started holding their faces when they don't actually get touched on the face. The Iranian fella in this GIF for one. And I seen Isco do it at the start of the Spanish game tonight. Cheating of the highest order.

Quaresma seemed to stand out alot too

IncognitoMan

NIMAN wrote: »

There are a worrying number of players who have started holding their faces when they don't actually get touched on the face. The Iranian fella in this GIF for one. And I seen Isco do it at the start of the Spanish game tonight. Cheating of the highest order.

I would have thought it was a very clear cut case of cheating as well but the problem is a ref, who is deemed good enough to be at the world cup, looked at that incident with VAR (So he got as many looks at it as he needed, could slow it down and so on) and thought it was a bookable offence. Like how?

But even worse there's people who think a yellow wasn't enough :eek:

Corholio

I'm usually on the Ronaldo side of arguments if he's not being a prat, but I think he was a little lucky. I don't know how some are saying the Iranian guy wasn't caught in the face in some way, he was a bit, if not as much as his reaction of course. That GIF doesn't show it great, there's another angle that shows Ronaldos arm against his face, nothing like smashed of course but he towed a dangerous line putting his arm there. It was in frustration too at the Iranian guy blocking him. I don't know if it was a certain red but he took a chance with VAR there.

Stephen15

IncognitoMan wrote: »

That Ronaldo yellow should have been a yellow to the Iran lad for play acting. Can't believe that some ex-Pros think that's a red or that a Ref saw fit to book him.

I'm all for cutting reckless behavior out of football but Jesus, we'll be booking players for invading personal space soon.



Like seriously, what am I missing about it?

The gif misses the fact that it was an off the ball incident. Keeper had the ball outside the penalty area and Ronaldo hadn't a hope of challenging for it before the keeper kicked it away. It makes it look he was challenging for the ball which Ronaldo was not.

I would guess that it is borderline between a yellow and a red. Whether there was any real intent is a different story and whether the Iran player overacted is another story. It was a very stupid incident for Ronaldo to get involved in considering there wasn't a hope of getting the ball. I know if Ronaldo was on the receiving end he'd be doing all he can to make the offending player is sent off.

I think any sort of unesscary off the ball incident should result in a straight red. You can't defend a player who uses force on opponents for reasons other than trying to win the ball surely. It's football we're talking about here not boxing, MMA or even GAA or Aussie Rules.

IncognitoMan

Yeah, I'm not seeing it tbh. The below clip is from RTE and it shows it a bit better. Ronaldo isn't a million miles away from the ball and he's entitled to go after it. Which is what he's doing moving past the Iran player who then play acts. It's a clear and obvious attempt at cheating imo.

https://twitter.com/RTEsoccer/status/1011356056100847616

Minderbinder

Gbear wrote: »

You could say there's 4 types of reffing errors.

Not Applying rules because of context:
Not giving bookings because a player is young, it's too early in a game or it's a final.

Applying rules inconsistently because of vague rules:
See the selection of handball penalties awarded/not awarded for or against Liverpool at the end of last season, and handballs in general.

Missing an event:
The Ronaldo "elbow" this evening, the Zidane headbutt.

Seeing something but calling it wrong:
Aspas' goal tonight.

VAR can only help with those last 2 errors. The others are cultural or down to poorly worded laws. Seeing them in slow mo might expose these decisions to everyone else (which might be good because it might lead to change), but unless reffing changes, they will still be inconsistent with how they make these calls.

VAR can't fundamentally change decision-making. It can only increase accuracy, but that's enough.

Regarding handballs it surely can’t be that hard to come up with specifications for exactly what is and isn’t a handball which can be easily enforced in the age of VAR. They could use a combination of criteria such as position of the arm, distance from where the ball last changed direction before striking the arm, speed of the ball, exactly where on the arm the ball makes contact, unnatural movement of the arm after the ball is kicked.

Like you alluded to, VAR has been introduced but all the grey areas of the rules haven’t been changed accordingly and therefore too many decisions are still open to interpretation, and inconsistencies based on where the offficials come from is still an issue.

It can appear like VAR is a good way to let somebody upstairs or who knows where make a decision but ‘different interpretations’ can still be used to not make other decisions. It makes corruption easier than ever imo.

Akrasia

Corholio wrote: »

I'm usually on the Ronaldo side of arguments if he's not being a prat, but I think he was a little lucky. I don't know how some are saying the Iranian guy wasn't caught in the face in some way, he was a bit, if not as much as his reaction of course. That GIF doesn't show it great, there's another angle that shows Ronaldos arm against his face, nothing like smashed of course but he towed a dangerous line putting his arm there. It was in frustration too at the Iranian guy blocking him. I don't know if it was a certain red but he took a chance with VAR there.

Even if Ronaldo's arm/elbow grazed the Iranian lads face it's still not a foul because the iranian lad was leaning back into him trying to obstruct him and ronaldo was trying to get around him to play the ball which was a good 10 yards away from him.

If it was me, I would have given a free to Ronaldo for obstruction.

There was another incident of cheating from Ricardo Quaresma (i think) where he wasn't even touched and went down acting as if he was punched in the face.

The VAR if it's being used to check fouls, it needs to card players for diving. This nonsense is much worse for the game than a little bit of marginal physical contact going unpunished.

But No referee can keep control of a game if he is being gang pressed by 6 or 7 players every time he blows his whistle. They need to issue cards the first time it happens, and have no qualms about 2nd yellows for repeat offenses. If the likes of Pepe gets sent off for dissent and costs his country a WC QF, the players won't be long reconsidering this deliberate intimidation strategy.

gimli2112

It has to be far more clear cut to earn a red. It could easily be an accidental coming together and there wasn't much in to it in terms of dangerous play. My anti-Ronaldo bias leads me to suspect he was being a bit of a git but it's not a sending off.

Akrasia

Minderbinder wrote: »

Regarding handballs it surely can’t be that hard to come up with specifications for exactly what is and isn’t a handball which can be easily enforced in the age of VAR. They could use a combination of criteria such as position of the arm, distance from where the ball last changed direction before striking the arm, speed of the ball, exactly where on the arm the ball makes contact, unnatural movement of the arm after the ball is kicked.

Like you alluded to, VAR has been introduced but all the grey areas of the rules haven’t been changed accordingly and therefore too many decisions are still open to interpretation, and inconsistencies based on where the offficials come from is still an issue.

It can appear like VAR is a good way to let somebody upstairs or who knows where make a decision but ‘different interpretations’ can still be used to not make other decisions. It makes corruption easier than ever imo.

The only criteria should be if the player moves his hand towards the ball after it has been kicked, whether it's accidental or not, contact with the hand could deny a striker a goal. The movement towards the ball requirement would prevent people from kicking the ball directly at other players hands to get penalties.

Akrasia

Stephen15 wrote: »

The gif misses the fact that it was an off the ball incident. Keeper had the ball outside the penalty area and Ronaldo hadn't a hope of challenging for it before the keeper kicked it away. It makes it look he was challenging for the ball which Ronaldo was not.

The ball wasn't far away, it wasn't really 'off the ball' incident because Ronaldo was going to get the ball. If anything, the Iranian fella bouncing into him was more off the ball than ronaldo trying to get around him to go after the ball. He mightn't have got there, or he might have, but he still would have put pressure on the keeper and possibly forced an error.

'Off the ball incidents' relate to players infringing where the ball isn't in play (either far away, or the ball has already been cleared from that area and the challenge is very late)

Adamocovic

Absolute shambles really in the evening games yesterday. Hopefully we don't see more nonsense today!

FourFourRED

NIMAN wrote: »

I didn't see the incident until this GIF, is this the thing that Liam Brady wanted Ronaldo red carded for?

If so, he must be going senile too.

Not only did he think it was a red card, he also went on some conspiracy theory rant accusing FIFA of protecting him from getting sent off. Very weird behaviour from him last night.

But he’s done a lot in football so he must be right :rolleyes:

Adamocovic

With the Ronaldo one it is open to debate. Personally think there was nothing really in it but know other friends and fans who feel that he was lucky.

With it being Ronaldo it will dominate the debate, however the penalty for handball was farcical. I have yet see one person agree with it.

I'm not going to complain about the VAR for it, end of the day the referee made the decision. What's worrying is how he could get it so wrong even with video assistance.

gimli2112

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/world-cup-2018/he-has-become-a-caricature-he-has-become-a-joke-eamon-dunphy-launches-scathing-attack-on-roy-keane-37049224.html


In what has to be the premier example of the pot calling the kettle black analogy. I never understand irony is this it?

FourFourRED

gimli2112 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/world-cup-2018/he-has-become-a-caricature-he-has-become-a-joke-eamon-dunphy-launches-scathing-attack-on-roy-keane-37049224.html


In what has to be the premier example of the pot calling the kettle black analogy. I never understand irony is this it?

I’ve enhoyed Roy a lot more than any RTE pundit so far.

Particularly this in relation to the England game and the English pundits getting ahead of themselves but also in terms of Southgate shouldn’t want to please the squad with game time. Take every game as it comes and play your best players for the game as much as possible. Being nice and considerate to others won’t get you into the final. - https://twitter.com/marcsduffy/status/1010981040394031105?s=21

ERG89

gimli2112 wrote:

In what has to be the premier example of the pot calling the kettle black analogy. I never understand irony is this it?

It could be used as a dictionary definition of it.
Dunphy is trying to get his name dropped by Roy tbh.

yourdeadwright

eigrod wrote: »

Spideog Rua wrote: »

But he didn't elbow him??  To me it looked like a foul and nothing more

Elbow, no. Arm in the jaw area, definitely. It’s as clear as anything in one angle.

I agree it was a yellow no way was it a red

yourdeadwright

The Iran lad purposely got in Ronaldo's way and Ronaldo used his arm across his chest to get past him, He didn't elbow him at all,
If it was the other way around the old pros would be calling out Ronaldo for diving , It was a coming together and that was it , Possible  yellow if the ref felt it was a bit aggressive but never a red,
The hand ball was a joke and the 5 guys people in the VAR room and the ref should be sacked for giving it , Never in a million years is it a hand ball offence,

GavRedKing

I reckon had Ronaldo been on the other end of the "elbow" the ref would have sent off the Iranian.

Anyway, Morocco and IRan gave good accounts of themselves over the last few weeks, if they werent lumped in with Portugal and Spain, they might have got out of the groups.

Portugal and especially Spain have been very underwhelming, I expect it of Portugal TBH, who wont get passed Uruguay but Spain have been dire, the managerial change has clearly had an affect, Hierro looks clueless.

I would have fancied Uruguay against Spain and the fact Spain managed to pip Portugal to top in the end, I dont hold out much hope for Portugal, even with the 2nd best player on the planet.

yourdeadwright

GavRedKing wrote: »

I reckon had Ronaldo been on the other end of the "elbow" the ref would have sent off the Iranian.

Anyway, Morocco and IRan gave good accounts of themselves over the last few weeks, if they werent lumped in with Portugal and Spain, they might have got out of the groups.

Portugal and especially Spain have been very underwhelming, I expect it of Portugal TBH, who wont get passed Uruguay but Spain have been dire, the managerial change has clearly had an affect, Hierro looks clueless.

I would have fancied Uruguay against Spain and the fact Spain managed to pip Portugal to top in the end, I dont hold out much hope for Portugal, even with the 2nd best player on the planet.

Uruguay have been worse than Portugal in there 3 games ,
I don't think there is much to pick between them , Uruguay have 2 good forwards opposes to Portugal's one but I think Portugal middle and wingers are stronger, Then Uruguay have better centre backs but Portugal have better full backs , Its a real toss up ,