The 2018 World Cup Superthread

The Talking Bread

StringerBell wrote: »

No, love cavani. Love him, always have but no he has never reached the level of Ibra. Just a step below that. Best player Uruguay have ever had though maybe...

Can't see them going much further though, particularly if El Matador is crocked.

At international level, for Uruguay over the decades, Cavani would struggle to make the top 10 of their best players.

Forlan for example is considered one of their greatest ever players when representing them.

And Suarez is most definitely an overall better player all in all than Cavani, if you are just talking in general

StringerBell

****ing hell

The Talking Bread

StringerBell wrote: »

****ing hell

No need to retort with that? A normal response would suffice.

HalloweenJack

Tbh, I'm happy to see Argentina and Portugal out if only to be rid of the whole "Can Messi/Ronaldo lead their team to glory" or "Messi/Ronaldo need to win to thie World Cup" bollocks.

We are lucky to have two of the greatest playing at the same time. We should enjoy them, we probably won't see the likes of them for a long time.

Stephen15

Interesting

http://www.sportbible.com/football/pub-talk-sergio-aguero-wasnt-left-on-the-bench-for-footballing-reasons-20180630

Charlie19

The Talking Bread wrote: »

World Cup knockout stats........

Lionel Messi - 0 goal in 756 minutes (8 games)

Cristiano Ronaldo - 0 goal in 514 minutes (6 games)

Between them...............1260 minutes.........14 games,,,,,,,,,,,,,4 world cups

Emile Heskey....................1 goal in 123 minutes

I'm not having a go at you...


But I really hate this type of scrutiny. Two of the most talented players that ever played football in my lifetime and some pricck has to find something to poke fun at.


Its international football and one player cant always carry a team.

Shanotheslayer

Charlie19 wrote: »

I'm not having a go at you...


But I really hate this type of scrutiny. Two of the most talented players that ever played football in my lifetime and some pricck has to find something to poke fun at.


Its international football and one player cant always carry a team.

Pretty sure it was piss take mate

Charlie19

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Pretty sure it was piss take mate

Oh....


I feel a bit silly now:o

Deeper Blue

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Messi offered nothing when it was required the most. Make no mistake: this hurts his legacy.

Why? Because you said so? Ridiculous comment. The same argument could be put forward about Ronaldo. Both are part of poor teams, very little they can do about it. For me they're still the two greatest players in history.

StringerBell

The Talking Bread wrote: »

No need to retort with that? A normal response would suffice.

Huh?

Oh I see there was another post. I was responding to the one about coentrao, hadn't checked.

The Golden Miller

Charlie19 wrote: »

I'm not having a go at you...


But I really hate this type of scrutiny. Two of the most talented players that ever played football in my lifetime and some pricck has to find something to poke fun at.


Its international football and one player cant always carry a team.

Maradona did it. The true sign of greatness surely....rising to the greatest occasion when the world watches? What we got tonight, was a player in Ronaldo, who wholly relies on others to create, who can't influence the game in open play to any great extent; and Maradona light (Messi), who's head drops far to often at international level. Ronaldo is a great goal scorer, Messi is a true great, but neither have met the level set by the greatest, Maradona

Liam McPoyle

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Maradona did it. The true sign of greatness surely....rising to the greatest occasion when the world watches? What we got tonight, was a player in Ronaldo, who wholly relies on others to create, who can't influence the game in open play to any great extent; and Maradona light (Messi), who's head drops far to often at international level. Ronaldo is a great goal scorer, Messi is a true great, but neither have met the level set by the greatest, Maradona

https://mobile.twitter.com/rffh/status/1012011929651511296?s=12

Diego has been caught doping more than once and rumours have dogged him that his entire career involved some kind of illicit substances. Obviously doping doesn't give you the kind of skills and control he naturally had but it does provide an unfair advantage.

His legacy is completely and utterly tarnished so using a multi time (that we know of) dope cheat as some kind if yardstick for Messi or Ronaldo is dumb.

Blazer

You have to wonder if the pressure just gets too much for them these days.
Every little thing is tweeted, reshown, analysed and seen on tv. Much less pressure in the old days.
Look at the last few world cups. It's always basically been an unknown or unexpected player who turns out to be the the star ie James Rodriguez for 2014 and Muller and Klose before that.
You have to go back to 2002 where Ronaldo was the star player and when you look back at the golden boot winners he was the exception. Before him again with the exception of Suker the rest were flash in the pans especially Schillalli.
Ronaldo and Messi are without a doubt the best 2 players in the world by a mile but you'll always have people saying they're no Maradonna. And they're not.
Pele/Maradonna are without a doubt the 2 finest footballers ever to play with Eusebio/Garrincha/Ronaldo/Romario coming next and then maybe Messi and Ronaldo.
I'm waffling a bit but basically what I'm saying is Messi and Ronaldo are both world class players but they are not the best players ever in the history of football. I wouldn't even put them in the top 5 i think.

NIMAN

Business Cat wrote: »

https://mobile.twitter.com/rffh/status/1012011929651511296?s=12

Diego has been caught doping more than once and rumours have dogged him that his entire career involved some kind of illicit substances. Obviously doping doesn't give you the kind of skills and control he naturally had but it does provide an unfair advantage.

His legacy is completely and utterly tarnished so using a multi time (that we know of) dope cheat as some kind if yardstick for Messi or Ronaldo is dumb.

Who's to say Messi and Ronaldo have never doped?

We know that Messi was on HGH, thats a fact. Many would consider that doping.

As for Ronaldo, we may never know. Many would say he shows attributes of a doper. Can a player be in such shape by just gym work? Possibly.

As for Maradona, I would say the vast majority of his doping was lifestyle drugs like cocaine, not renowned to make you a bigger, stronger, better soccer player. I'd say his body was pumped full of steroids and painkillers by doctors trying to keep him fit due to the physical abuse his body took on the pitch. Its a known fact that many players in the 70s, 80, 90s were routinely injected with painkilling injections or anti-inflammatories to keep them playing.

Be great if there was an award for the most unlikeable world cup player

It currently would be a 3 way battle between Neymar, Suarez & Lewandowski

The constant playacting and sneaky cheating, frustrating to watch

1986 will always be remembered as Maradonnas world cup. Ceratinly not tarnished.

NIMAN

It is a 2 horse race between Neymar and Suarez.

For me, the latetr shades it. Every single game when Uruguay are winning, he spends the last 10mins of games getting mysteriously hit in the face with every tackle that goes in, even when no-one or contact is near his face. He did it a couple of times last night in the last mins of the game, and the ref and Portugal just played on, he had to swallow his pride and get back up.

Blazer

Neymar without a doubt...he's intensely dislikeable.
I say most of his teammates in any club hate the little knob

NIMAN

Blazer wrote: »

Neymar without a doubt...he's intensely dislikeable.
I say most of his teammates in any club hate the little knob

The way all the Brazilian player always talk about him, about how much he means to the team, how the country should pray for him etc etc.

I wonder is it in their contracts that they have to mention him so much?

He's the kind of player who, when he gets injured or misses a period of matches, the team plays better and gets better results.

marklazarcovic

Suarez is a team player first and foremost.




The amount of shrieks and fake 'im seriously hurt by that tackle' in this world cup is unreal.. embarrassing when you see replay's.

blueser

NIMAN wrote: »

It is a 2 horse race between Neymar and Suarez.

For me, the latetr shades it. Every single game when Uruguay are winning, he spends the last 10mins of games getting mysteriously hit in the face with every tackle that goes in, even when no-one or contact is near his face. He did it a couple of times last night in the last mins of the game, and the ref and Portugal just played on, he had to swallow his pride and get back up.

That one last night when he got nudged somewhere around the shoulder blade area, and went down clutching the back of his head like he'd been belted with a baseball bat, was risible. I'd love to have seen a post match interviewer pull him up on that, and not let him wriggle off the hook with some rambling inane non-answer.

NIMAN

Hopefully this will be the next use of VAR or any video technology, to retrospectively punish players who cheat so blatantly.

rob316

Neymar without a doubt. Suarez is a **** house on the pitch but he doesn't have a morsel of neymars attitude and ego off it.

The Talking Bread

On a side note I seen a click bait article about how "the Welsh people are fuming as Ryano Giggs refers to England team as "we" "

Then in the comments section someone came out with the gem........."he also refers to his brothers wife as "our" "

Akrasia

Will I Am Not wrote: »

There’s far, far more football clubs in the country than GAA or rugby.

No there isn't. The gaa have over 2300 clubs in ireland. FAI would be closer to 1000

Hitchens

other than Kevin Moran, has any Gaelic footballer ever become well known as a soccer player of note?

Is there really a discussion about Suarez or Neymar?

One was found guilty of racially abusing an opponent by an investigating panel. Surely that ends the debate?

The Talking Bread

Hitchens wrote: »

other than Kevin Moran, has any Gaelic footballer ever become well known as a soccer player of note?

Niall Quinn scored a hat trick in a Junior B game for Eadstown!

He also played and scored a 40 yard point in an All Ireland minor final against Galway (I think this is correct? )

Shane Long was a fine Tipp under age hurler

The Talking Bread

Deleted User wrote: »

Is there really a discussion about Suarez or Neymar?

One was found guilty of racially abusing an opponent by an investigating panel. Surely that ends the debate?

Ah. . .but every (Liverpool ), I mean Suarez fan will say all the diving, biting, cheating, racial abuse and harassing the referee is down to his admirable personality of doing everything he can to win "for his team" but Neymar does a bit of showboating and he is the devil incarnate!

yabadabado

Nixonbot wrote: »

He's easily as good as Ibra was in fairness.

Nope ,a good player no doubt but not on Ibra level.

Shanotheslayer

NIMAN wrote: »

As for Ronaldo, we may never know. Many would say he shows attributes of a doper. Can a player be in such shape by just gym work? Possibly.

That's not a possibility that's 100% true

Will I Am Not

Akrasia wrote: »

No there isn't. The gaa have over 2300 clubs in ireland. FAI would be closer to 1000

Really? I live in a town of about 20,000 people. There’s 1 GAA club and 5 soccer clubs. I thought it would be similar in most parts of the country.

yabadabado

Afaik football is the most participated game in the country. No clue how that equates to clubs .

Ultimate Seduction

Uruguay could well win this. Although very ordinary, they're the most efficient team I've seen so far. All 11 players working like dogs for eachother. Suarez pressing really is something else, I'd kind of forgotten about it since he left England. Don't know how they'll cope without cavani but I think I'll have a cheeky score on em later

pjohnson

Aswell as Suarez and Neymar I think honourable mention has to go to Ospina, a fart would injure him. 2 or 3 times each match he has required physio.

The Talking Bread

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Uruguay could well win this. Although very ordinary, they're the most efficient team I've seen so far. All 11 players working like dogs for eachother. Suarez pressing really is something else, I'd kind of forgotten about it since he left England. Don't know how they'll cope without cavani but I think I'll have a cheeky score on em later

Croatia have definitely been the most efficient team, all things being all

They (Uruguay) had a very easy group in fairness and in fairness Portugal were average enough after the Spanish game (a game I feel they didn't deserve to get a point out of)

France will do them I think

NIMAN

Uruguays future in this competition rely on Cavani's fitness.

MarkY91

NIMAN wrote: »

It is a 2 horse race between Neymar and Suarez.

For me, the latetr shades it. Every single game when Uruguay are winning, he spends the last 10mins of games getting mysteriously hit in the face with every tackle that goes in, even when no-one or contact is near his face. He did it a couple of times last night in the last mins of the game, and the ref and Portugal just played on, he had to swallow his pride and get back up.

Neymar for me. I simply despise him.

Ultimate Seduction

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Croatia have definitely been the most efficient team, all things being all

They (Uruguay) had a very easy group in fairness and in fairness Portugal were average enough after the Spanish game (a game I feel they didn't deserve to get a point out of)

France will do them I think

Croatia also had a group of Iceland, Nigeria, and one of the worst Argentine teams in history.. Croatia have been decent but I just think Uruguay are a lot more solid and have played with more hunger than anyone else.

Harry Palmr

Thought the World Cup came alive yesterday. Two brilliant games, esp Portugal v Uruguay. I could watch the opening goal for every on a loop!

NIMAN

Yesterday was certainly a dramatic day of football.
The remaining 3 days will struggle to live up to it.

kerplun k

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Do you mean like how Zlatan was a youtube footballer until that one season he played in PL at the end of his career? And then he evolved into one of the all times greats?

Ibra was never rated as a world class footballer by the English media until he scored that Hat trick against England.

kerplun k

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Your point is very muddled though?

Just because he has those stats in La Ligue doesn't mean he would peak so high in the PL anyway, season by season.

If you want to make the point regarding players that should be mentioned in the same bracket as Ronaldo, Neymar and Messi "currently still playing the game", you would have another few dozen players to throw in.........if basing on stats or overall performance. So it is hardly worthy of having conversations that put him in the same bracket. Especially considering here he is playing at the moment.

See Salah, Kane, Coutinho, Suarez, Icardi, Griezzman, Dybala, Aguero, Lewandoski, Immobile,Hazard in the last few years. Stick those in that PSG team and they would have just as high performance stats. Even Lukaku would look like a world beater in La Ligue, Pogba, hell hy not include Jonas in for the craic!

There are plenty of good players out there at the moment whose performances on a disjointed basis makes them look as good as a Messi or a Ronaldo and Cavani is included in the above selection but it is all a bit of a muddled comparison and "bracket".

But Cavani has done the business consistently over the 5 years, now let’s look at Kane, he’s done it 2 seasons, hasn’t won anything and there’s rumblings in the English press raising questions if he should be considered World Class. My point here is that Cavani is probably one of the most underrated players currently playing.

brianregan09

https://www.facebook.com/bpzonearsenal/

Don't know if this would be any interest to peeps in here but I run a bi weekley podcast and today we'll be covering the group stages of the world cup and would love some questions for our Q and A section

Shanotheslayer

kerplun k wrote: »

But Cavani has done the business consistently over the 5 years, now let’s look at Kane, he’s done it 2 seasons, hasn’t won anything and there’s rumblings in the English press raising questions if he should be considered World Class. My point here is that Cavani is probably one of the most underrated players currently playing.

Doesn't Cavani have the worst conversion rate of most prolific strikers he's compared to?

yabadabado

kerplun k wrote: »

But Cavani has done the business consistently over the 5 years, now let’s look at Kane, he’s done it 2 seasons, hasn’t won anything and there’s rumblings in the English press raising questions if he should be considered World Class. My point here is that Cavani is probably one of the most underrated players currently playing.

The same Kane who has scored 30 or more the last 4 seasons ?

kerplun k

yabadabado wrote: »

The same Kane who has scored 30 or more the last 4 seasons ?

Apologies, I didn't check his stats before I typed that, but still, Cavani has at lest equalled this over a longer period and has actually won major trophies in the process.

Shanotheslayer

kerplun k wrote: »

Apologies, I didn't check his stats before I typed that, but still, Cavani has at lest equalled this over a longer period and has actually won major trophies in the process.

Winning La Ligue with PSG as opposed to winning the league with Spurs in England is completely different.

StringerBell

kerplun k wrote: »

Ibra was never rated as a world class footballer by the English media until he scored that Hat trick against England.

Yes but in the same vein as those who question could Messi do it on a wet Monday night in stoke you do know to ignore the English media right? You can watch and see for yourself the quality of a player and Ibras record spoke for itself for a long, long time and still does.

adox

Just a general comment but I’m really enjoying this World Cup so far. I think the football on the whole has been very entertaining and the amount of goals per game seems very high.

There doesn’t seem to be an outstanding team which is a good and bad thing, but mostly good. Good obviously as it’s hard to call who is favourite to win it and there’s probably 3 or 4 teams in with a realistic shout.

The bad is that there’s no “super team” for a better phrase to admire, although there is still time for that to evolve, but I just don’t think there is.

Fouling by defenders in the box and the amount of penalties given has been a breath of fresh air. It’s hilarious to see the faces of the offending defenders as they look exasperated at the referee.

I’ve already posted about the crowding of refs and play acting being a huge negative.

Another negative I found was, it was hard to get behind any of the real underdogs and the whole romance of them causing an upset. They all seemed to be hugely cynical teams, nasty tactics, play acting to the extreme and surrounding the ref at every little thing that happened. I actually found myself starting a game cheering for the underdog and changing my mind halfway through due to those reasons.

Panama were probably the worst, which is such a shame as their story is probably the most “underdoggy” of the all.

Yesterday was a great first day of the knock out football. I actually enjoyed the first game more than than the second although they were both entertaining.

Be interesting to see how today pans out. I fear for Russia against the Spanish and I think Spain may win easily.

Tonight’s game may be the pick of the two although I’d have Croatia as clear favourites over the Danes.