The 2018 World Cup Superthread

Adamocovic

CSF wrote: »

Football mentality is weird. Nobody has too much of a problem with players that kick people around for a living, but they’re full on enraged by the guy who exaggerates injury.

Like I’m no fan of it either, but that mentality is weird.

Don't fully agree. It really depends on the player I think and opinions can vary.
For instance Ramos is hugely unpopular and known for injury players.

The problem with Neymar is the extent at which he exaggerates it. Even speaking to Brazilians who work with me they have said that the Brazil fans are sick of it. A brilliant player who doesn't need to act like this.

NIMAN

Adamocovic wrote: »

Don't fully agree. It really depends on the player I think and opinions can vary.
For instance Ramos is hugely unpopular and known for injury players.

The problem with Neymar is the extent at which he exaggerates it. Even speaking to Brazilians who work with me they have said that the Brazil fans are sick of it. A brilliant player who doesn't need to act like this.

A couple of yellows for playacting or retrospective bans for it and he'd soon stop.

But he's the new face of modern soccer after Messi & Ronaldo, so UEFA/FIFA will do nothing about him, they need him to keep football the hot sport.

kerplun k

Adamocovic wrote: »

Don't fully agree. It really depends on the player I think and opinions can vary.
For instance Ramos is hugely unpopular and known for injury players.

The problem with Neymar is the extent at which he exaggerates it. Even speaking to Brazilians who work with me they have said that the Brazil fans are sick of it. A brilliant player who doesn't need to act like this.

To be fair, he has been the most fouled player in the tournament. If he is going to be targeted, why shouldn’t he make a meal of it? If players are going to actively kick him, what else can he do but bring attention to it.
If he didn’t roll around yesterday, no one would have looked twice at Layún pathetic stamp on him.

evil_seed

Gutted for Japan. Still. They played the right way, and so did Belgium. Game of the tournament IMO. You play to win, you don't play to not lose. Fair play to them for giving it their all.

NIMAN

evil_seed wrote: »

Gutted for Japan. Still. They played the right way, and so did Belgium. Game of the tournament IMO. You play to win, you don't play to not lose. Fair play to them for giving it their all.

Exactly, couldn't agree more.

Never understood teams spending 18 months - 2yrs qualifying to go to a WC then park the bus and try to get 3 nil nils. Pointless.

Look some teams are never going to win it, so ffs give it a lash. Give your fans something to cheer about. Fair play Japan, you gave it a good shot.

garra

CSF wrote: »

Football mentality is weird. Nobody has too much of a problem with players that kick people around for a living, but they’re full on enraged by the guy who exaggerates injury.

Like I’m no fan of it either, but that mentality is weird.

Meh, not so weird when you think about it. Football is a physical game, sometimes you get kicked and sometimes you land a kick, it always has been thus and hopefully always will.

What's weird is a fully grown male - that you admire for his football ability - writhing around the floor like a landed fish with a hook in it's face after he has been slightly stood on. That's freaky weird, "gives me the shivers and makes me feel ill at the same time" weird.

Minderbinder

NIMAN wrote: »

The Japanese were dead on their feet and had to win it in the 90mins, cos they would definitely not have held out for another 30min extra time v a strong Belgian team.

Honda crossed it in to try to win the game. Fair play I say. Wasting time in the corner, they would have lost anyway.

They’re professional athletes. Saying Japan were tired is just an excuse so you don’t have to say that they wilted under a lot of pressure from Belgium. The better team won because they have better footballers and found a way to win. Nothing to do with fatigue.

ERG89

Minderbinder wrote:

Saying Japan were tired is just an excuse

It was obvious they were it's no excuse just a clear observation

yourdeadwright

ERG89 wrote: »

Minderbinder wrote:

Saying Japan were tired is just an excuse

It was obvious they were it's no excuse just a clear observation

I agree, they didn't have the quality off the bench that Belguim had and they ran out of steam, Belguim where not impressive at all at the back , I think Brazil will do them

yourdeadwright

Minderbinder wrote: »

NIMAN wrote: »

The Japanese were dead on their feet and had to win it in the 90mins, cos they would definitely not have held out for another 30min extra time v a strong Belgian team.

Honda crossed it in to try to win the game. Fair play I say. Wasting time in the corner, they would have lost anyway.

They’re professional athletes. Saying Japan were tired is just an excuse so you don’t have to say that they wilted under a lot of pressure from Belgium. The better team won because they have better footballers and found a way to win. Nothing to do with fatigue.

Well thats just nonsense, of course fatigue can have a say in the out come of a game,
Doesn't matter how good you are if your knackered there's not much you can do,
There was a point at 2-2 where the ball was played to the Japan right full who had a chance for a through ball and he just couldn't move his feet quick anymore and knocked it out for a throw it was purely down to being tired,
Its not an excuse as being fit is as much part of the game as being skilful is,
It was a great game last night Japan played really well,
Belgium are the better team on paper buy a mile but also had there luck, There first goal was a fluke and got them back into it,

ArmaniJeanss

Belgium USA was probably the best L16 tie in 2014, you might recall Tim Howard having a ridiculously good game.
Belgium went out to South American opposition rather meekly in the quarters a few days later.

LuckyLloyd

NIMAN wrote: »

Exactly, couldn't agree more.

Never understood teams spending 18 months - 2yrs qualifying to go to a WC then park the bus and try to get 3 nil nils. Pointless.

Look some teams are never going to win it, so ffs give it a lash. Give your fans something to cheer about. Fair play Japan, you gave it a good shot.

I probably agree on balance: they never stopped attacking and throwing bodies up the pitch. Their attitude was to play to their strengths and land the knockout blow. It was their undoing, but it was also what got them within an inch of victory in the first place.

garra wrote: »

Meh, not so weird when you think about it. Football is a physical game, sometimes you get kicked and sometimes you land a kick, it always has been thus and hopefully always will.

What's weird is a fully grown male - that you admire for his football ability - writhing around the floor like a landed fish with a hook in it's face after he has been slightly stood on. That's freaky weird, "gives me the shivers and makes me feel ill at the same time" weird.

Fully agree - it's just weird dishonourable behaviour.

Paully D

The same people giving out about Japan having a go at the end of that game last night will be the first ones to give out about the likes of Cardiff sitting back and defending at Anfield or Old Trafford next season.

Laois_Man

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Being fit is as much part of the game as being skilful is

I wouldn't say Japan were less fit. They were playing their 4th game against players playing their 3rd. Belgian players hadn't played in 9 days - Japan had a big game only 4 days previously. Its the reward for being smart and resting the team when possible - same thing happened to Ireland in the last 16 of Euro 2016. We'll probably see England getting the same advantage tonight.

Adamocovic

kerplun k wrote: »

To be fair, he has been the most fouled player in the tournament. If he is going to be targeted, why shouldn’t he make a meal of it? If players are going to actively kick him, what else can he do but bring attention to it.
If he didn’t roll around yesterday, no one would have looked twice at Layún pathetic stamp on him.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree. Personally I'm aware diving or exaggerating injuries is part of the game, but Neymar takes it do a whole new level. I don't think he needs to put on a brave face but he is theatrical and over the top with every touch he takes.

In my eyes,while some players will exaggerate to bring attention to a foul, Neymar seems to over-exaggerate extreme amounts in order to get the player sent off.

With the "stamp" yesterday, if you could call it that, the ref had the help of VAR so thankfully admitted there was no real stamping motion, pressure or intent and so no action was taken against the player. While there is no question about Neymars ability his play acting is off the chart, compared to other pros who also receive a lot of fouls too.

We've seen him run chest first into standing opponents off the ball and fall to the ground clenching his chest looking for a card. It's the type of player he will always be and despite how good he is if a lot of his own national fans are getting sick of it that goes to show you the extent. The fans I talked to said they hope he matures and tones it down, he's 26 now, not some kid in the game.

I get the opinion that Neymar is a great actor, but the tacklers give him a stage. But he is honestly one of the most frustrating players in the game as all his excessive diving takes the talk of his ability, and he will not doubt inspire another generation of footballers.

He must have been inspired, himself by Rivaldo v Turkey in 2002.

MarkY91

Bloody ****ting myself about the England game later. I believe they have a great chance of making the final and that scares the crap out of me

Adamocovic

MarkY91 wrote: »

Bloody ****ting myself about the England game later. I believe they have a great chance of making the final and that scares the crap out of me

For my work predictor I need to them to drag themselves to the semi-finals, then they can bow out for another tournament.

Boom_Bap

I'm looking forward to the Columbia v England match later. As far as football goes it should be an interesting clash of styles, hopefully an entertaining one.

Ultimate Seduction

StringerBell wrote: »

There is another option besides wasting time in the corner and playing a low % lob into the box that they choose while leaving nobody covering the middle of the field.

And sure yeah, just pack up the entire forum since it is not possible to discuss football without being a top class manager in a PL job.

Was specifically talking about the posters saying they should have kept the ball in the corner, which is a ridiculous suggestion.

yourdeadwright

MarkY91 wrote: »

Bloody ****ting myself about the England game later. I believe they have a great chance of making the final and that scares the crap out of me

Don't get why Irish people care if England win the world cup , Most of us support there players at there clubs anyway,
If they win it fair play to them, I for one wouldn't be grudge them .
I think they have a massive chance of making the final infact i'll be surprised if they don't .
If Ireland where in England's place we'd all be saying we have a chance , Columbia, Sweden, The Swiss, Russia, Croatia, if none of them made it out of there groups we wouldn't have been surprised ,

Ultimate Seduction

Irish and I would love to see the English players win it, but I dread the media for the next 50 years if they did. Anyway I'm a realist and see Columbia winning comfortably, 2-1

CSF

Adamocovic wrote: »

Don't fully agree. It really depends on the player I think and opinions can vary.
For instance Ramos is hugely unpopular and known for injury players.

The problem with Neymar is the extent at which he exaggerates it. Even speaking to Brazilians who work with me they have said that the Brazil fans are sick of it. A brilliant player who doesn't need to act like this.

I think Ramos is a bit of an outlier, who has become significantly more unpopular due to a high profile incident against a heavily popular team in one of the biggest games in football.

But typically, people have to much less of a problem with the lad who tactically kicks someone, to gain an advantage, than they do the lad who tactically exaggerates whether he was kicked, to gain an advantage. Like we’ll accept being cynical and bending the rules in some ways, but not others.

I don’t know if it’s some kind of macho code thing that I never subscribed to, but for me, the players who kick the good players to try nullify their individual skills, are the ones who make football much less enjoyable to watch.

LuckyLloyd

MarkY91 wrote: »

Bloody ****ting myself about the England game later. I believe they have a great chance of making the final and that scares the crap out of me

England won't be allowed to win a World Cup in Russia. The glorious leader wouldn't countenance it. There's nothing to fear.

CSF

Benimar wrote: »

Totally agree.

A lot of lads here are in the ‘if you don’t 100% agree with me you must be 100% disagreeing with me’ camp.

I have no problem with Japan trying to win the game, it’s how they tried to do it. Belgium were taller and more physical and were winning practically every header, so the odds on scoring from a high cross from the corner were low enough.

To leave themselves that open to the counter was sheer stupidity - the defender nearest to Courtois should have blocked the throw and taken the yellow because once KDB got the ball they were screwed.

Finally, Honda putting the ball into the keepers hands was just silly. Even if a defender headed it clear Japan would probably have been ok. The only way Japan were losing from their own corner was to put it straight into the keepers hands and have put too many men forward.

Very few, if any, said they should have kept the ball in the corner. As Stringer said in an earlier post, Japan probably should have looked to create a 2 on 1 and get a low cross in, or a pull back to the edge of the box for a shot.

It was the pundits who I was referring to who said they should have kept it in the corner. For me, the biggest issue was how many they committed forward, particularly the guy who leaves his spot outside the box to make a back post run, vacating a huge pocket of space that Belgium ultimately took advantage of.

garra

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Irish and I would love to see the English players win it, but I dread the media for the next 50 years if they did. Anyway I'm a realist and see Columbia winning comfortably, 2-1

Let's be clear about it, the Irish media would not behave any differently to the English media if we won the WC.

The only reason you are annoyed by the English media is because you watch BBC / ITV / Sky Sports etc. If you don't like English media companies behaving like English media companies then stop consuming English media output.

Watch the GAA on RTE, or American football instead. See how long that lasts!!

Laois_Man

garra wrote: »

Let's be clear about it, the Irish media would not behave any differently to the English media if we won the WC.

Been saying it for a while - the Irish rugby media have become every bit as annoying as the English football media ever were

And that was before the great success of 2018 too!

StringerBell

The Irish rugby team is the second best in the world, and has beaten the best too.

Bit of a difference in levels of success achieved also tbf

MarkY91

Adamocovic wrote: »

For my work predictor I need to them to drag themselves to the semi-finals, then they can bow out for another tournament.

I have them in our house sweepstake. I never wanted to lose my money so much in my life lol

StringerBell

StringerBell wrote: »

The Irish rugby team is the second best in the world, and has beaten the best too.

Bit of a difference in levels of success achieved also tbf

But tbf the only real competition involves playing 5 other teams annually, 2 or 3 of which are usually weak enough. In the only real worldwide competition, we've been pretty abysmal.

Adamocovic

CSF wrote: »

I think Ramos is a bit of an outlier, who has become significantly more unpopular due to a high profile incident against a heavily popular team in one of the biggest games in football.

But typically, people have to much less of a problem with the lad who tactically kicks someone, to gain an advantage, than they do the lad who tactically exaggerates whether he was kicked, to gain an advantage. Like we’ll accept being cynical and bending the rules in some ways, but not others.

I don’t know if it’s some kind of macho code thing that I never subscribed to, but for me, the players who kick the good players to try nullify their individual skills, are the ones who make football much less enjoyable to watch.

Ramos was already an unpopular figure before the CL final against Liverpool, I'm not even a Pool fan.

People like players who perform strong, cleaning, crunching tackles, it something people love to see, and I agree people prefer players like that who occasionally mess it up and injure someone than someone who constantly over-exaggerates fouls.

But players who are perceived as dirty players are rarely supported by anyone other than the supporters of their team. Plenty of them about, El Hadji Diouf, Joey Barton, Diego Costa, Saurez, Muscat, Souness, Harald Schumacher loads of players.

Even past footballers, and managers who are trying to defend Neymar have admitted that while contact was made the reaction was embarrassing by him. Other's haven't been as kind.

CSF

There’s a mid point between the player who puts in a good hard honest tackle and your Diego Costa types. Tactical fouling is a huge thing, Uruguay basically put on a clinic of it against Portugal but nobody seems to mind that all that much.

Adamocovic

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Irish and I would love to see the English players win it, but I dread the media for the next 50 years if they did. Anyway I'm a realist and see Columbia winning comfortably, 2-1

Everyone always goes uses this argument, but to be fair we still go on about Italia 90, when we made the QF. And we didn't even win a single game in 90 minutes during the tournament and only scored 2 goals overall.

Mad to think that was 28 years ago. Hell, I still go on about Westmeath winning the Leinster SFC in 2004!

Yes the media would celebrate it, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking we would be any different over here. We also still go on about Eurovision wins when that roles around.

CSF

Adamocovic wrote: »

Everyone always goes uses this argument, but to be fair we still go on about Italia 90, when we made the QF. And we didn't even win a single game in 90 minutes during the tournament and only scored 2 goals overall.

Mad to think that was 28 years ago. Hell, I still go on about Westmeath winning the Leinster SFC in 2004!

Yes the media would celebrate it, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking we would be any different over here. We also still go on about Eurovision wins when that roles around.

It would definitely be the exact same. Still doesn’t mean we wanna listen to them

Adamocovic

CSF wrote: »

It would definitely be the exact same. Still doesn’t mean we wanna listen to them

I get that but nobody is forcing any of us to tune into ITV, BBC, Sky News or any of the other English media outlets if we find it that frustrating.

I wont be getting annoyed with the French media for going on about their success if they end up winning the thing.

Adamocovic

Also regarding England, I think the majority of fans still believe getting to the Quarter Finals would be the big success for this WC, and who can blame them with their poor knockout form.

Some obviously are going to get their hopes up (and ultimately disappointed I'd say) but most seem to be having a laugh with it. Finding the Football's coming home jokes to be gas.

Yes they have an incredible opportunity and so the media will report on it, but most seem grounded in the fact that since they haven't won in 16 years a knockout they have to be cautious. Colombia tonight should be a cracker of a game.

StringerBell

They are by and large the best I've seen them at a major tournament, media and fans and as o said before the tournament they have a decent chance of doing well at it because they actually look like a team this time around instead of a collection of individuals.

MisterAnarchy

John Obi Mikel has revealed he played against Argentina in the crucial World Cup group finale just hours after being informed his father had been kidnapped by armed bandits.
Pa Michael Obi was on his way to a funeral when bandits, posing as police, took him and the Nigeria international received a call saying his father would be shot if he told anyone.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/0703/976043-mikels-father-kidnapped-hours-before-world-cup-game/

Poor fella ,thats a terrible thing to happen and he looked completely shell shocked in the interview after the match.

Adamocovic

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

John Obi Mikel has revealed he played against Argentina in the crucial World Cup group finale just hours after being informed his father had been kidnapped by armed bandits.
Pa Michael Obi was on his way to a funeral when bandits, posing as police, took him and the Nigeria international received a call saying his father would be shot if he told anyone.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018/0703/976043-mikels-father-kidnapped-hours-before-world-cup-game/

Poor fella ,thats a terrible thing to happen and he looked completely shell shocked in the interview after the match.

It's the second time his father has been kidnapped. My word.

Laois_Man

StringerBell wrote: »

They are by and large the best I've seen them at a major tournament, media and fans and as o said before the tournament they have a decent chance of doing well at it because they actually look like a team this time around instead of a collection of individuals.

I wonder does their better grounding stem from the profile of the clubs they play for being broadly a bit lower than usual

Tonight's starting 11 are probably from the following clubs:

Tottenham 3
Man City 3
Man Utd 2
Everton 1
Liverpool 1
Leicester 1

StringerBell

Probably a big part of it yeah, a no name manager and one actual world class player in the squad has helped temper expectations I think.

Loafing Oaf

Adamocovic wrote: »

Also regarding England, I think the majority of fans still believe getting to the Quarter Finals would be the big success for this WC.

Yeah but if they get past Colombia I think most fans will be disappointed if they don't then go on to the final. Would be very deflating to be knocked out by Switzerland or (especially) Sweden in the qf, be like Ireland losing to Argentina in the RWC...

murpho999

StringerBell wrote: »

They are by and large the best I've seen them at a major tournament, media and fans and as o said before the tournament they have a decent chance of doing well at it because they actually look like a team this time around instead of a collection of individuals.

Genuinely don't get on what this is based? Beating Panama and Tunisia and second eleven losing to Belgium.

We shall find out more tonight.

Billy86

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But tbf the only real competition involves playing 5 other teams annually, 2 or 3 of which are usually weak enough. In the only real worldwide competition, we've been pretty abysmal.

NZ, Australia, South Africa, Argentina, Wales, Scotland, England, France would all constitute somewhat of a 'top tier' in modern rugby, though it fluctuates a bit. Then you've got the likes of Japan, some of the islands and such able to give almost any team a game on their day (the US best Scotland just a few weeks ago for example).

It's all a bit off topic but it's pretty remarkable how good a job Irish rugby has done in terms of development etc in the last 20 years compared to football. Leinster might be producing more talent than any team in the entire world for the last few years.

dastardly00

Just realised that Switzerland are ranked 6th in the world :eek:
I know it's the FIFA World Rankings etc. but still!

ArmaniJeanss

dastardly00 wrote: »

Just realised that Switzerland are ranked 6th in the world :eek:
I know it's the FIFA World Rankings etc. but still!

They are one win away from completely justifying a top 8 place, so its hardly the worst bit of ranking ever. They are consistent at qualifying and then getting out of groups which is good for their ranking, and they don't play many friendlies which helps them also.

FatherTed

Lol now Martin O'Neill is in studio on Fox Sports(USA) today :0

Laois_Man

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

They are one win away from completely justifying a top 8 place, so its hardly the worst bit of ranking ever. They are consistent at qualifying and then getting out of groups which is good for their ranking, and they don't play many friendlies which helps them also.

And they won 9 out of 10 games in qualification

Adamocovic

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Yeah but if they get past Colombia I think most fans will be disappointed if they don't then go on to the final. Would be very deflating to be knocked out by Switzerland or (especially) Sweden in the qf, be like Ireland losing to Argentina in the RWC...

Getting past Colombia will be a huge task, a team who found themselves in the QF last time around, and despite how good and promising they have been at spells I can see them losing tonight.

If they do manage to get by it's not as plain sailing as some seem to think. The Swiss are a very talented side capable of beating England. And Sweden are one of England's bogey teams. It is always close between England and Sweden and since 2000 the record is equal for both. With 2 wins a piece, 3 draws.

You can argue that the teams haven't played in ages and a lot has changed, (Last game was 2012 when Sweden won 4-2) but what is mad is that never has either team won by more than 2 goals. In fact before 2012 the last time either side won by more than 1 goal was in 1968.

I understand the debate that the past doesn't matter and it's about current sides but they historically have had very even and tight games.

But like I said, I think with the pressure on England tonight they could cave and Colombia will pounce.

Loafing Oaf

Adamocovic wrote: »

Getting past Colombia will be a huge task, a team who found themselves in the QF last time around, and despite how good and promising they have been at spells I can see them losing tonight.

If they do manage to get by it's not as plain sailing as some seem to think. The Swiss are a very talented side capable of beating England. And Sweden are one of England's bogey teams. It is always close between England and Sweden and since 2000 the record is equal for both. With 2 wins a piece, 3 draws.

You can argue that the teams haven't played in ages and a lot has changed, (Last game was 2012 when Sweden won 4-2) but what is mad is that never has either team won by more than 2 goals. In fact before 2012 the last time either side won by more than 1 goal was in 1968.

I understand the debate that the past doesn't matter and it's about current sides but they historically have had very even and tight games.

But like I said, I think with the pressure on England tonight they could cave and Colombia will pounce.

I'm not talking about the reality of England's prospects but how English 'football people' perceive them. Right now I'd say they're suspending judgement because they haven't had a proper game yet. But if they beat Colombia and look good in the process, I'm sure most of them will be thinking (deep down, mightn't be saying so out loud) "Sweden/Switzerland, then Croatia/Russia? Yea, we'll get through that lot."

My own verdict is that they're marginally better than Sweden, Russia and Colombia (minus a fit and firing James), just about level with Switzerland, and a bit behind Croatia. But really I couldn't call England v any of those teams.

ThunbergsAreGo

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I'm not talking about the reality of England's prospects but how English 'football people' perceive them. Right now I'd say they're suspending judgement because they haven't had a proper game yet. But if they beat Colombia and look good in the process, I'm sure most of them will be thinking (deep down, mightn't be saying so out loud) "Sweden/Switzerland, then Croatia/Russia? Yea, we'll get through that lot."

My own verdict is that they're marginally better than Sweden, Russia and Colombia (minus a fit and firing James), just about level with Switzerland, and a bit behind Croatia. But really I couldn't call England v any of those teams.

On paper I think they are ahead of Switzerland especially in an attacking sense