The 2018 World Cup Superthread

gormdubhgorm

Laois_Man wrote: »

People are allowed to comment on the standard of the team and predict defeat for them without being desperate for them to fail you know!

Also England have already had a successful tournament based upon their expectations before this tournament began. But the goalposts have moved due to the eliminations of Germany and Spain

The English jingoistic commentators have been really schizophrenic even by thier usual standards.

They are almost afraid to say that they could win it.
Then the Euro's Iceland game is at the back of thier mind so they are a bit more reserved because they don't want to sound like complete eejits later on?

I am still hoping England get to final and lose it, just for the English heartache stuff etc.

I think this English team is alright because they are workman like and not as annoying as usual.
If they win it fair play to them though. Plus Gareth has a nice beard and lovely waistcoat.
I can't be too annoyed about a fella who looks like a snooker player on the side of the pitch, who respects the etiquette of the game.

bmcc10

Adamocovic wrote: »

bmcc10 wrote: »

That team will still scream of average. England will be on the plane home this weekend. They've not even been impressive at all in this world cup and there gonna come up against a well organised Sweden team and Southgates tactically naivety will cost them.

Honestly it's comments like this which make me hope they do well.

Maybe I'm just a prick but I think I would enjoy the absolute meltdown from the people who are desperate for them to fail, if they were to actually have an impressive and successful tournament.

What comment?
I'm not desperate for England to fail whatsoever and there would be no meltdown it was a comment on them as a team and just saying what I think. They've beaten Panama and Tunisia and scraped past an average Colombia team without there best player. They have 3/4 quality players who'd maybe make it into some of the better countries still in the competition they've hardly been tested yet and Southgate has hardly been tested as a manager yet. If they where to go on and win it fair play to them I can't see it though

LuckyLloyd

The Talking Bread wrote: »

What???

People are talking about them like they're a South Africa, USA or Japan. Not a long term second tier European power who have been in the vast majority of major tournaments since they started organizing them!!

rob316 wrote: »

10 years ago a semi final? I think Spain and Germany are proof that 2-4 years is even a long time in international football.

Sure, but it's the mentality. If they get to a semi final it's not unknown territory for them, like some seem to suggest.

gmisk

Laois_Man wrote: »

There are only 5 surviving members from the 2014 World Cup in the 2018 squad (Wellbeck, Cahill, Jones, Henderson and Sterling)


The list of those surviving from the 2018 will probably be slightly longer in 2022 I suspect, but I bet you'll find the majority of those won't be in the 2022 squad at all



They had young big hopes in 2014 too (Hart, Barkley, Shaw, Smalling, Wilshire and Sturridge) who were supposed to be making up the nucleus of the 2018 squad and proving big hope for this world cup. Hasn't happened now, probably won't happen next time either. Just instead, some of the likes of Demarai Gray, Tammy Abraham, Joe Gomez, Ademola Lookman, Dominic Calvert-Lewin, and the Sessegnon brothers at Fulham along with some we haven't even heard of yet will form a list of great hopes forming the nucleus of the 2026 squad and the cycle continues.

I think your right, they have won some big tournaments recently as well at underage level (Won u20 and u17 world cup in 2017, u19 euro cup in 2017) - some seriously promising players.

gormdubhgorm

bmcc10 wrote: »

beaten Panama and Tunisia and scraped past an average Colombia team without there best player.

They have had the luck of the draw there is no question about that.
But on paper they should beat Sweden but they won't make it easy and it would not be a shock if Sweden grind them down and win.

If they do win the Sweden game I think Croatia are a much better team then England.
Also if they face Russia, Russia will have the home crowd roaring them on.

I think anything after the Sweden game should be viewed as an over-achievement for them.

Most people at the start of the tournament would have said Quarter Finals is about England's level?

Adamocovic

Laois_Man wrote: »

People are allowed to comment on the standard of the team and predict defeat for them without being desperate for them to fail you know!

Also England have already had a successful tournament based upon their expectations before this tournament began. But the goalposts have moved due to the eliminations of Germany and Spain

Completely agree it's already been a success in terms of what they set out to do, but like you said expectations have changed. I would argue this was a stepping stone for the Euro's, promising young team.

And I have no issues with people highlighting areas of concern for England. I've done so myself in terms of the game against Sweden. Even stated before the Swiss v Sweden game that England would nearly prefer Swiss to win due to their history with the Swedes.

Like people can comment on the standard of football and predictions, we're all entitled to comment on what we feel about the posts here. There is a recurring theme of some posters who I would deem desperate for England to lose, and it would appear that way with a popular thread referring to the thought of them being successful as a "nightmare".

While England have not been perfect, to claim their team screams of average players, and that they are definitely on their way home this weekend, I find to fall into the above category.

chopperbyrne

The only reason I want England to lose is because I have Sweden in the sweepstakes.

It's incredibly hypocritical for people to watch English football for ten months of every year, and then want to see their national team fail.

Adamocovic

bmcc10 wrote: »

What comment?
I'm not desperate for England to fail whatsoever and there would be no meltdown it was a comment on them as a team and just saying what I think. They've beaten Panama and Tunisia and scraped past an average Colombia team without there best player. They have 3/4 quality players who'd maybe make it into some of the better countries still in the competition they've hardly been tested yet and Southgate has hardly been tested as a manager yet. If they where to go on and win it fair play to them I can't see it though

Maybe you aren't in the camp who are desperate to see them fail. But that was just how I interpreted your comment.

Reason for me coming to this was just how sure you seem they will fall out and how negative you seem to be about the entire team, despite them already having a successful WC.

This has been a crazy open WC, and the game versus Sweden will be very tight like always and can go either way but I can't understand how sure you are they will lose. Phrases like hardly been tested yet. Surely a penalty shoot-out against Colombia would count as a big test for them, considering the mentality of the English with penalties. Also regarding their squad. If you feel that squad screams average players can I ask what is your opinion of the Swedish squad?
And the tactical part? Southgate is criticised for a number of things but preparations and tactics are one of his strong suit. We've seen that with the huge turn-around regarding set-pieces. I don't see how you can be so sure he will cost them the game.

Now I agree Sweden are an extremely prepared and organised side who I could easily see winning, and my big concern or question about Southgate is if they go behind would he be able to react to the game.

Either way it will be an incredibly entertaining and tight game this Saturday.

osarusan

chopperbyrne wrote: »

It's incredibly hypocritical for people to watch English football for ten months of every year, and then want to see their national team fail.

And football fans are known for their consistently rational opinions.

Laois_Man

chopperbyrne wrote: »

It's incredibly hypocritical for people to watch English football for ten months of every year, and then want to see their national team fail.

What about an Arsenal supporter spending those 10 months hating Harry Kane and then cheering for him in the Summer. Does that count as incredibly hypocritical also?

Adamocovic

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

They have had the luck of the draw there is no question about that.
But on paper they should beat Sweden but they won't make it easy and it would not be a shock if Sweden grind them down and win.

If they do win the Sweden game I think Croatia are a much better team then England.
Also if they face Russia, Russia will have the home crowd roaring them on.

I think anything after the Sweden game should be viewed as an over-achievement for them.

Most people at the start of the tournament would have said Quarter Finals is about England's level?

I had them making it to the Semi-Finals in my predictor at work.
Although I had Germany v England for the QF

Safe to say it's been a crazy WC and most predictors are suffering!

Adamocovic

Laois_Man wrote: »

What about an Arsenal supporter spending those 10 months hating Harry Kane and then cheering for him in the Summer. Does that count as incredibly hypocritical also?

Not exactly a like of like comparison. Think would be more like:

What about someone supporting Leinster Rugby for 9-10 months of the year and then wanting to see Ireland fail.

Again you're entitled to do so, I know a few and there was many on here during the Euro's who wanted Ireland to fail as they were sick of the media drumming on about the fans.

People can take joy in the failure of English football all they want, and likewise people can take joy in the reactions of those if England doesn't fail.

irishguitarlad

chopperbyrne wrote: »

The only reason I want England to lose is because I have Sweden in the sweepstakes.

It's incredibly hypocritical for people to watch English football for ten months of every year, and then want to see their national team fail.

I'll be honest with you I only watched 2 maybe 3 Premier League games this year. I watch mostly LaLiga and the Saturday and Sunday night Serie A. I used to follow Chelsea but now I couldn't give two ****s about them. Does that qualify me to cheer against them? Or do I need to write some sort of an essay?

eagle eye

irishguitarlad wrote:

I'll be honest with you I only watched 2 maybe 3 Premier League games this year. I watch mostly LaLiga and the Saturday and Sunday night Serie A. I used to follow Chelsea but now I couldn't give two ****s about them. Does that qualify me to cheer against them? Or do I need to write some sort of an essay?

He is not talking about you, he is talking about Premier league fans shouting against players they watch and in many cases support for ten months of the year.
Why did you feel the need to respond?

loyatemu

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't think England will win this World Cup but I do think they are the standout for the next one, if the heat doesn't prevent it.


This team is four years time will have the following players with their ages then,



Pickford 28
Stones 28
Trippier 31
Maguire 29
Alexander-Arnold 23
Walker 32


Dier 28
Lingard 29
Henderson 32
Loftus-Cheek 26
Alli 26


Kane 28
Sterling 27
Rashford 24


That team to me with the experience they already have and the maturity that will be there in four years seems like a potential World Cup winning team. The likes of Ryan Sessegnon, Johnjoe Kenny, Kyle Walker-Peters, Lewis Cook, Tuanzebe, Winks, Ojo, Nketah, Tom Davies and Tammy Abraham may have broken thought by them. There are a lot that I haven't mentioned there, they have a host of excellent youths to add in there. Could be a very strong squad with experience.



Henderson 32

they'll still have to find a good creative midfielder from somewhere, and that defence will still be pretty average. They won't get the easy draw they're getting this year either. I think they've a real chance of making the final in Russia, but Brazil could tear them apart when they get there.

Liam O

England are a rival football team to Ireland, before all the geopolitical reasons take hold. I like a lot of their players this time round so don't begrudge them anything in this tournament but it's like asking an Everton fan if they want Liverpool to do well in the Champions League because they play in the same league, it's silly.

Regardless of my feelings towards them should it not be possible for me to want certain players to do well and their team ultimately fail? What if a Liverpool fan dislikes Brazil? Should a Belgian fan want England to beat them because their players play in England and not Belgium?

It's baseless nonsense really brought up by people to get a rise because of their inferiority complex to do with LOI.

Adamocovic

Liam O wrote: »

England are a rival football team to Ireland, before all the geopolitical reasons take hold. I like a lot of their players this time round so don't begrudge them anything in this tournament but it's like asking an Everton fan if they want Liverpool to do well in the Champions League because they play in the same league, it's silly.

Regardless of my feelings towards them should it not be possible for me to want certain players to do well and their team ultimately fail? What if a Liverpool fan dislikes Brazil? Should a Belgian fan want England to beat them because their players play in England and not Belgium?

It's baseless nonsense really brought up by people to get a rise because of their inferiority complex to do with LOI.

I don't think those comparisons are like for like at all. We aren't in the WC so we aren't directly competing against them. It's naturally for a lot of fans not to care if they succeed.

I've adopted France for the tournament (much to the delight of the people in work) and would love France and England final. Lots of English tourists here and the craic would be mighty.

blueser

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

...I am still hoping England get to final and lose it, just for the English heartache stuff etc...

Any particular reason why you want the English to suffer heartache?

Ferris_Bueller

blueser wrote: »

Any particular reason why you want the English to suffer heartache?

I am going to take a wild guess and say that he really does not like the English football team?

Corholio

chopperbyrne wrote: »

The only reason I want England to lose is because I have Sweden in the sweepstakes.

It's incredibly hypocritical for people to watch English football for ten months of every year, and then want to see their national team fail.

Is it ok to support a team that doesn't have any England international players in it and want them to lose, or is it just a very vague 'English football' ? People 'support' teams not players, a lot of those teams are only English in location as well, with ownership, management and players from all parts.

It's all neighbourly rivalry really with historic add ons, I don't understand why someone would be surprised or critical. I wouldn't care at all if English fans wanted Ireland to lose. As a football supporter you have to expect someone out there to be a rival and not want your team to win for a myriad of reasons.

Hitchens

blueser wrote: »

Any particular reason why you want the English to suffer heartache?

800 years of oppression?

eagle eye

Hitchens wrote:

800 years of oppression?

And that's a perfectly valid reason. I just hope you are not a hypocrite that follows a Premier league team if you feel so strongly about history.

Hitchens

eagle eye wrote: »

And that's a perfectly valid reason. I just hope you are not a hypocrite that follows a Premier league team if you feel so strongly about history.

blueser

Hitchens wrote: »

800 years of oppression?

So; he wants the present day English to suffer heartache for what happened centuries ago? Hmm.

Ultimate Seduction

chopperbyrne wrote: »

The only reason I want England to lose is because I have Sweden in the sweepstakes.

It's incredibly hypocritical for people to watch English football for ten months of every year, and then want to see their national team fail.

This is one argument I cannot agree with. Watching the English Premier League has nothing to do with liking or dis liking the national team. I support Celtic but couldn't give a flying fcuk about Scotland's national team.

rob316

England may get to the final but won't win it. In fact I'd fancy any of Brazil, France, Uruguay or Belgium to beat them.

Iused2likebusts

eagle eye wrote: »

He is not talking about you, he is talking about Premier league fans shouting against players they watch and in many cases support for ten months of the year.
Why did you feel the need to respond?

Those premier league players will also be playing for other countries. Who should Irish Chelsea fans cheer for if Belgium play england.

Ultimate Seduction

rob316 wrote: »

England may get to the final but won't win it. In fact I'd fancy any of Brazil, France, Uruguay or Belgium to beat them.

You can't say anything with such certainty after watching this world cup. Brazil havnt been great at all. It could well be s Belgium v Swreden or Russia final.

Uruguay still the most solid and consistent team I've seen. Have them backed at 14/1 too .

loyatemu

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

You can't say anything with such certainty after watching this world cup. Brazil havnt been great at all. It could well be s Belgium v Swreden or Russia final.

Uruguay still the most solid and consistent team I've seen. Have them backed at 14/1 too .

nothing is certain, but Brazil have looked increasingly good and France seemed to be finding their mojo against Argentina. Meanwhile England have only beaten Tunisia and Panama.

marklazarcovic

Anybody bar France and Brazil please,can't stand griezman and watching Neymar's antics would make you want to kick the tv,so for me... Croatia or england please.. england are not annoying me as much.. probably the lack of louts throwing bottles singing rule brittania that's achieved that.

The Talking Bread

This nonsense about Ireland's "rivalry" with England and pleasure taken out of them losing deserves it's own thread. It's a boring subject at this stage. And really has NOTHING to do with football.

HalloweenJack

chopperbyrne wrote: »

It's incredibly hypocritical for people to watch English football for ten months of every year, and then want to see their national team fail.

How is it any different from, say, English Man U fans giving English Liverpool/Arsenal/Chelsea/City players stick for ten months of the season and then supporting them when they come together in the national side?

MarkY91

bmcc10 wrote: »

That team will still scream of average. England will be on the plane home this weekend. They've not even been impressive at all in this world cup and there gonna come up against a well organised Sweden team and Southgates tactically naivety will cost them.

They were supposed to be already home yet they're still here with the easiest possible route in world cup history to a final against possible teams who aren't at all impressive. They have as big a chance as France of Brazil of winning.

irishguitarlad

MarkY91 wrote: »

They were supposed to be already home yet they're still here with the easiest possible route in world cup history to a final against possible teams who aren't at all impressive. They have as big a chance as France of Brazil of winning.

Eh they were in a group with Tunisia and Panamá, then they played a Colombia side without their star man so I don't buy the supposed to be already home stuff. However I agree with you that they have an "easier"route to the final than other teams.

Ultimate Seduction

The Talking Bread wrote: »

This nonsense about Ireland's "rivalry" with England and pleasure taken out of them losing deserves it's own thread. It's a boring subject at this stage. And really has NOTHING to do with football.

All neighbors are rivals in football, club or international regardless of politics

eagle eye

Iused2likebusts wrote:

Those premier league players will also be playing for other countries. Who should Irish Chelsea fans cheer for if Belgium play england.

Whichever one their favourite players play for maybe?

I'd imagine Belgium when you consider that two Chelsea starters are starting for Belgium and two that don't start that often for Chelsea are on the bench most of the time for England.

The Talking Bread

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

All neighbors are rivals in football, club or international regardless of politics

This has nothing to do ith my post. It is just a boring debate that goes around and around.

Person 1: "I hope England lose"
Person 2: "Why"
Person 1: "Because we are rivals and Oliver Cromwell, the Queen and all that craic"
Person 2: "How mature, let me ask you this, do you watch/support PL football"
Person 1: "That is different"
Person 2: "No it isn'[t, It's incredibly hypocritical for people to watch English football for ten months of every year, and then want to see their national team fail.
Person 1: No, it isn't.
Person 2: Yes it is
Person 1: No it isn't.




You get the gist, the conversation goes nowhere!

Person 2: Yes it does..........

blueser

The Talking Bread wrote: »

This has nothing to do ith my post. It is just a boring debate that goes around and around.

Person 1: "I hope England lose"
Person 2: "Why"
Person 1: "Because we are rivals and Oliver Cromwell, the Queen and all that craic"
Person 2: "How mature, let me ask you this, do you watch/support PL football"
Person 1: "That is different"
Person 2: "No it isn'[t, It's incredibly hypocritical for people to watch English football for ten months of every year, and then want to see their national team fail.
Person 1: No, it isn't.
Person 2: Yes it is
Person 1: No it isn't.




You get the gist, the conversation goes nowhere!

Person 2: Yes it does..........

"I'm sorry; is this the five minute argument, or the full half hour?"

Berserker

loyatemu wrote: »

I think they've a real chance of making the final in Russia, but Brazil could tear them apart when they get there.

I'm hoping that Belgium will do them tonight. Sick to death of Brazil's cheating antics.

Adamocovic

Berserker wrote: »

I'm hoping that Belgium will do them tonight. Sick to death of Brazil's cheating antics.

I'm sick of them too, but for the sake of my predictor I'm praying France and Brazil do the job tonight, then France send Brazil packing.

Who knows with this WC though!

Shanotheslayer

England Brazil final ideal for me

Backed Brazil pre tournament.
Backed England E/W

And then got Brazil in a sweep.

Just hope Belgium don't step up. Hard to see a Martinez team winning a crunch game when it matters against a big side

Ultimate Seduction

I threw a sneaky 5r on all the underdogs

Russia

Sweeden

Uruguay

Belgium

The 5r returns almost 2grand. Praying this crazy world cup gets a lil crazier.

Quazzie

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

I threw a sneaky 5r on all the underdogs

Russia

Sweeden

Uruguay

Belgium

The 5r returns almost 2grand. Praying this crazy world cup gets a lil crazier.

How are you getting €2000 on that?

Ultimate Seduction

Quazzie wrote: »

How are you getting €2000 on that?

Almost. Around 1800 I think?

Done in Paddy's power

Billy86

blueser wrote: »

"I'm sorry; is this the five minute argument, or the full half hour?"

Shut your festering gob, you tit! Your type really makes me puke, you vacuous, coffee-nosed, malodorous, pervert!!!

Ferris_Bueller

Good article I thought here on the Swedish team and their manager. As an Ireland fan it is possibly someone we should wish to emulate and would not be impossible if only we had a new manager. Only 2 years ago we were the better team against Sweden in the Euros. One paragraph in particular sounded very familiar:

"After seven years in a job that had seen an increasingly suffocating emphasis on defensive football, Hamren had lost any kind of hold over the team, and there was “a complete breakdown in trust”.

The team often just looked tentative and dysfunctional, with little optimism or enthusiasm about it, and everything had just gone stale."

yourdeadwright

I'm going for semi's of Croatia v England  Brazil v Uruguay
Final Uruguay v England

Sprinter Sacre

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Almost. Around 1800 I think?

Done in Paddy's power

When did you place the bet? Odds currently are @4.5, @3.5, @4.5 and @3.75 on PP. 5er returns 1328. I can't imagine line movement will have been too drastic either but a bit of a sick move to catch for you if prices have steamed in that much. Paddy's odds are woeful in general. Same 5er will return 1684 with Bet365. Marathon seem to be the best with a return of 1740 although they don't accept Irish business.

MarkY91

irishguitarlad wrote: »

Eh they were in a group with Tunisia and Panamá, then they played a Colombia side without their star man so I don't buy the supposed to be already home stuff. However I agree with you that they have an "easier"route to the final than other teams.

Well before the Colombia game, many people were showing they have no hope against Colombia.

BullBlackNova

Really looking forward to today's games.

Think Uruguay will present a much tougher challenge to France than Argentina did. So well organised in defence. It's hard to see Griezmann or Mbappe getting anywhere near the level of space they did in the second round. But the French creative players and strikers are far better than anything Uruguay have faced so far I think. Obviously Portugal have Ronaldo but in terms of numbers, France are on another level.

Brazil and Belgium, too, could be absolutely fascinating. I think Brazil are so balanced in attack and defence that they should win the tournament but Belgium are more than capable of beating anyone on their day.

Tomorrow, too, is so even and so hard to call. Sweden look difficult to break down but poor in terms of creating. Croatia have so many talented players that I'd see them as better than Russia but... Russia...

Last four for me: Uruguay, Brazil, Croatia and Sweden. Final of Brazil and Croatia.