Formula 1 2018: General Discussion Thread

H3llR4iser

Deleted User wrote: »

The 10 minutes is for ads and I don't like the hour later, more of the day used up.

Mixed bag for me - as I'm from Italy, growing up all the EU races used to start at what were effectively 14.00 for me (GMT+1 in Italy), so living in Ireland now it'll just mean sort of a throwback to the '80s and 90's; But I do think the move is ill advised when it comes to clashes - In Italy, for example, this will put F1 even more in a clash with Serie A and people will always choose football over anything else down there; Just like in the Uk, France, Spain and Germany.

The "10 past the hour" thing is downright dumb and a pointless advertisement stunt, I agree.

boardsuser1

skipper_G wrote: »

You're such an optimist

Has to be done

I'm a bit too optimistic though :pac:

skipper_G

As for the time change thing, I can see there's some logic in it for broadcasters with no pre-show build up. They can have their regular programming until the hour mark and then get a few comments in before the race start. But anyone already with a build up will more than likely cram another ad break in. I'll see how it pans out in practice, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

H3llR4iser

skipper_G wrote: »

As for the time change thing, I can see there's some logic in it for broadcasters with no pre-show build up. They can have their regular programming until the hour mark and then get a few comments in before the race start. But anyone already with a build up will more than likely cram another ad break in. I'll see how it pans out in practice, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

In all honesty, I don't bother with any "build up" anymore - I used to avidly follow them, but frankly it's all showboating, character promotion and very little information now. I quite literally (used to) tune in at like .57 or .58 for the race.

boardsuser1

H3llR4iser wrote: »

In all honesty, I don't bother with any "build up" anymore - I used to avidly follow them, but frankly it's all showboating, character promotion and very little information now. I quite literally (used to) tune in at like .57 or .58 for the race.

Same as myself, just the parade lap and lights out(and away we go, *shudders*)

skipper_G

H3llR4iser wrote: »

In all honesty, I don't bother with any "build up" anymore - I used to avidly follow them, but frankly it's all showboating, character promotion and very little information now. I quite literally (used to) tune in at like .57 or .58 for the race.

I enjoy the build up myself, it's part of the race weekend

boardsuser1

skipper_G wrote: »

I enjoy the build up myself, it's part of the race weekend

Did you ever watch the build up in the RTE days?

skipper_G

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Did you ever watch the build up in the RTE days?

All I remember about the RTE coverage was Peter Collins' over exuberance. But I have a lousy memory

boardsuser1

skipper_G wrote: »

All I remember about the RTE coverage was Peter Collins' over exuberance. But I have a lousy memory

You remember more than enough then :pac:

Jordan 199

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Did you ever watch the build up in the RTE days?

I liked David Kennedy.

boardsuser1

Jordan 199 wrote: »

I liked David Kennedy.

At least he knew his stuff unlike Collins.

Even Declan Quigley was respectable.

H3llR4iser

skipper_G wrote: »

I enjoy the build up myself, it's part of the race weekend

Eh, if it was done well. I used to enjoy it until the last couple of years...when on the UK coverage, it has become a Hamilton-fan-fest. They mostly give out obvious and "I could figure that out myself" information, like "everyone starting soft tires". D'uh, I would have never imagined.

Mind you, I grew bored of it when I was in Italy also - Ferrari over everything else; You'd swear there were no other competitors, at times

H3llR4iser

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Mixed bag for me - as I'm from Italy, growing up all the EU races used to start at what were effectively 14.00 for me (GMT+1 in Italy), so living in Ireland now it'll just mean sort of a throwback to the '80s and 90's; But I do think the move is ill advised when it comes to clashes - In Italy, for example, this will put F1 even more in a clash with Serie A and people will always choose football over anything else down there; Just like in the Uk, France, Spain and Germany.

The "10 past the hour" thing is downright dumb and a pointless advertisement stunt, I agree.

For me I'm usually hungover on a Sunday so I do little if anything before the 1pm races. This will just mean it'll be 4pm before I can do anything. :P

And yeah, it's gonna clash worse now with the football, even the mid-afternoon kick-offs.

boardsuser1

skipper_G wrote: »

As for the time change thing, I can see there's some logic in it for broadcasters with no pre-show build up. They can have their regular programming until the hour mark and then get a few comments in before the race start. But anyone already with a build up will more than likely cram another ad break in. I'll see how it pans out in practice, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

I’ve been reading it on Sky, all I can say is what dafuq?

http://www.skysports.com/share/11232101

El_Duderino 09

Cork Truck Driver wrote:

F1 will eventually give way to FE i reckon and either merge or F1 will stop completely.

Merger is most likely when the technology is advanced and EVs become more common. Imagine the uproar from the engine noise brigade!

El_Duderino 09

Mr.H wrote:

But just getting rid of them to appease generation snowflake is just another nail in the coffin for society.

Neither of us were around when the decision was taken to have grid girls. Let's assume that they were chosen because the culture at the time wanted grid girls for commercial reasons. Now that culture has changed and it no longer wants grid girls for commercial reasons, it's a nail in the coffin of society? How does that work? Is all change bad or just this change?

F1 is free to choose the show it puts on. It's unfortunate that they won't be hiring grid girls any longer, but it's hardly F1's job to provide them with employment.

boardsuser1

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Imagine the uproar from the engine noise brigade!

You'll be able to hear a pin drop when that happens.

The days of brilliant engine noise is long gone.

Happy days with the sound from the V8's/V10's

Who remember's the sound of the extra thirsty Ferrari V12

El_Duderino 09

Cork Truck Driver wrote:

You'll be able to hear a pin drop when that happens.

Quite the opposite. If they are upset enough, the sound of their grumbling will be as loud as a v10

Mr.H

skipper_G wrote: »

All I remember about the RTE coverage was Peter Collins' over exuberance. But I have a lousy memory

Ah they where the days. I use to love the RTE coverage. The season Shummy had his crash and Irvine took over as the Ferrari number one to challenge Mikas Mclaren................. That fight went to the last race. Even one of the last races Mika crashed out at the second last corner. So much drama in one season.

boardsuser1

Mr.H wrote: »

Ah they where the days. I use to love the RTE coverage. The season Shummy had his crash and Irvine took over as the Ferrari number one to challenge Mikas Mclaren................. That fight went to the last race. Even one of the last races Mika crashed out at the second last corner. So much drama in one season.

1999 was the year.

You on about when Hakkinen spun off due to a lapse of concentration while leading at Monza?

boardsuser1

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Quite the opposite. If they are upset enough, the sound of their grumbling will be as loud as a v10

Initially yes.

But like with the current system i would expect it to quiten down after a while

Mr.H

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Neither of us were around when the decision was taken to have grid girls. Let's assume that they were chosen because the culture at the time wanted grid girls for commercial reasons. Now that culture has changed and it no longer wants grid girls for commercial reasons, it's a nail in the coffin of society? How does that work? Is all change bad or just this change?

F1 is free to choose the show it puts on. It's unfortunate that they won't be hiring grid girls any longer, but it's hardly F1's job to provide them with employment.

The nail in the coffin of society remark is just a comment on how we seem to be changing things that people want to take offense to without actually realising the purpose in the first place.

I do think we need to grow up as a society and make sure that we stop using women. I also think we need to encourage our daughters not to let themselves be used. It might sound horrible but the whole Harvey Weinsteen stuff for example. A lot of his victims are not really victims. A lot of his so called victims where given a choice to do stuff with him or not get then job. I am sorry but ffs have a bit of dignity and just tell him to pi@@ off. Dont do it and then act like you didnt have a choice. Choice! which brings us to grid girls. They have a choice. Become one or not. Are they manipulated? Taken advantage of? Whored out? If you watch loose women you would definitely think so.

Lets be clear first. Yes Grid Girls where hired to provide eye candy. But its not as simplistic as that. They where actually hired to provide glamour. Models. Not high class escorts.

Formula one use to be seen as the classy sport. It was seen as the sport of the wealthy. From playboys and models to fast cars and even friken champagne at the end of the race (which other sports adopted afterwards). Everything around formula one was to enhance its "class".

Grid girls where often models that where "friends" or hangers on, of these rich playboy team owners or drivers. They would then hang around the grid and end up getting snaps taken by paparazzi. This of course was a great way for them to have some fun in the evening with rich people and get some publicity also. They then started to be hired as grid girls to host guests for teams and help high paying guests to have a nice day out with some pretty girls hanging around. One of the huge perks aside form the pay packet was the opportunity to be a grid girl and have some photos taken with the cars. This gave these professional models something for their portfolio as well as international coverage. Its not ridiculous to think they might book a lot of work after that kid of coverage.

So we move to the future. One without "grid girls". We will still have these pretty models doing everything else around the teams. But they wont get any exposure. Instead they will be paid less and get no work by proxy.

Anyone who thinks that these women have been saved from a life that took advantage of them, has not one clue what these girls want. Instead we have people that appear on loose women telling these girls and society that they are taken advantage of and shouldnt do what they want with their bodies.

Whats next, ban modeling altogether? Surely that is taking advantage of young women and discarding them when they dry out?

So yes this is another nail in the coffin for a society of people that think for themselves. Instead we appease the mindless masses who want to be offended by a girl in a pretty dress.

Mr.H

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

1999 was the year.

You on about when Hakkinen spun off due to a lapse of concentration while leading at Monza?

It was indeed. Was definitely the greatest season I ever witnessed. I think it was the first season where I knew I loved F1.

I really wanted Eddie to go on and improve the following season. When he moved on from Ferrari he never had a chance to compete really.

Unfortunately the last couple of years my watching has waned. I usually watch the first couple of races live and then because of work I end up not watching the rest of the season but just checking on results.

boardsuser1

Mr.H wrote: »

It was indeed. Was definitely the greatest season I ever witnessed. I think it was the first season where I knew I loved F1.

I really wanted Eddie to go on and improve the following season. When he moved on from Ferrari he never had a chance to compete really.

Unfortunately the last couple of years my watching has waned. I usually watch the first couple of races live and then because of work I end up not watching the rest of the season but just checking on results.

Without doubt the best f1 season since i started watching as well.

First ever race i watched was Hungary 1997, it was a pity the race wasn't 1 lap shorter that day

Nurburgring 1999 was the craziest race as well, The amount of different leaders before Johnny Herbert eventually took victory, the botched pitstop by Ferrari,which ultimately cost Irvine the title,Hakkinen hitting the wall in San Marino,again while leading.

The drive of the year back then had to be Salo in Hockenheim, he gave up a certain victory, the closest he was to ever get to one.

I would be here all night, 1999 definitely rocked, F1 now is crap compared to those days.

Cookie_Monster

F1 rightly being called out on the hypocrisy of banning grid girls but continuing to support Bahrain
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11987740

El_Duderino 09

Mr.H wrote:

The nail in the coffin of society remark is just a comment on how we seem to be changing things that people want to take offense to without actually realising the purpose in the first place.

Ok. If the original reasons still apply the in tour point might well be right. Let's see what's the actual purpose was in the first place...

Mr.H wrote:

Formula one use to be seen as the classy sport. It was seen as the sport of the wealthy. From playboys and models to fast cars and even friken champagne at the end of the race (which other sports adopted afterwards). Everything around formula one was to enhance its "class".

Grid girls where often models that where "friends" or hangers on, of these rich playboy team owners or drivers. They would then hang around the grid and end up getting snaps taken by paparazzi. This of course was a great way for them to have some fun in the evening with rich people and get some publicity also. They then started to be hired as grid girls to host guests for teams and help high paying guests to have a nice day out with some pretty girls hanging around. One of the huge perks aside form the pay packet was the opportunity to be a grid girl and have some photos taken with the cars. This gave these professional models something for their portfolio as well as international coverage. Its not ridiculous to think they might book a lot of work after that kid of coverage.

So we move to the future. One without "grid girls". We will still have these pretty models doing everything else around the teams. But they wont get any exposure. Instead they will be paid less and get no work by proxy.

Let's assume grid girls were originally genuine friends of drivers or team owners or whatever and that lent class and gravitas to the show. Does anyone think the grid girls just happened to be hanging around and were asked to take part? Is anyone fooled by grid girls into believing that f1 is all about beautiful people and glamour?

I have to admit I cringe inside when I see grid girls and the ones who clap the drivers onto the podium in the narrow corridor between the drivers room and the podium. I cringe be at the idea that my peers think that grid girls are classy and they are classy by virtue of following a sport with such classy grid girls.

Grid girls by happenstance might by interesting but grid girls by dictate is like a parody of itself.

Mr.H wrote:

So yes this is another nail in the coffin for a society of people that think for themselves. Instead we appease the mindless masses who want to be offended by a girl in a pretty dress.

It's a nail in the coffin of a society who thinks they're classy because they watch a sport that's class is added to by grid girls. Free thinking society will be unaffected.

In a world with porn hub, I can't see any need for grid girls.

Harika

Child labour is back

https://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2018/02/05/f1-announces-new-grid-kids-scheme-replace-grid-girls/

So instead of eye candy, local young fans who compete in junior racing categories or karting will be on the grid. Liberty Media = Monsters! :pac:

Richard Hillman

Great, now the wealthy locals can give backhanders to the local motorsport organisation to let little Johnny hold a placard. I'm sure they'll be picked at Random in Bahrain and Abu Dhabi :pac:

Petyr Baelish

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Great, now the wealthy locals can give backhanders to the local motorsport organisation to let little Johnny hold a placard. I'm sure they'll be picked at Random in Bahrain and Abu Dhabi :pac:

Why do you think it would be any different everywhere else?

skipper_G

Harika wrote: »

Child labour is back

https://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2018/02/05/f1-announces-new-grid-kids-scheme-replace-grid-girls/

So instead of eye candy, local young fans who compete in junior racing categories or karting will be on the grid. Liberty Media = Monsters! :pac:

In theory it's a great idea, in practice it may yet end up a case of who you know that can arrange for little jimmy to be "selected at random". Nevertheless the viewer isn't going to know (or care) if it's some rich kid or not. It has no impact on the racing at all, positive for PR so a sensible choice.

Maybe I'm too cynical, but I think it was intentional they didn't just announce it last week, why have two announcements when one would have sufficed. They got the media attention on them with the grid girls announcement, people talking on twitter etc; and followed up by the kids one a week later.

Cool_CM

According to the FIA release, they will be kids who are already involved in motorsport/karting and their direct family members will have access to the paddock on raceday:

https://www.fia.com/news/fia-and-formula-1r-are-pleased-announce-new-partnership-called-grid-kids

Time to start thinking about having kids and forcing them into motorsport! :pac:

flazio

In my opinion it's no different to soccer players holding hands with child mascots as they walk out on the pitch.

meeeeh

Mr.H wrote: »

Whats next, ban modeling altogether? Surely that is taking advantage of young women and discarding them when they dry out?

So yes this is another nail in the coffin for a society of people that think for themselves. Instead we appease the mindless masses who want to be offended by a girl in a pretty dress.

Talk about hysterical overreaction. Clothes modeling is not tacky, grid girls were.

Btw I find offensive to good taste that anyone would think skimpy, cheap looking lycra outfits are adding class to anything (in comparison some fashion is almost art). Also I doubt pictures with the car would be useful for portfolio except if they were going for topless calendars. I accept some are not happy with the decision but let's not bring class into it.

Anyway involvement of kids is good idea imo.

AMKC

Cool_CM wrote: »

According to the FIA release, they will be kids who are already involved in motorsport/karting and their direct family members will have access to the paddock on raceday:

https://www.fia.com/news/fia-and-formula-1r-are-pleased-announce-new-partnership-called-grid-kids

Time to start thinking about having kids and forcing them into motorsport! :pac:

I do not think they are forcing them into motorsport. I think it is a good idea sure it will not be as glamorous as all the perfectly made up beautiful women that were on the grid before but it might get some of these kids interested in motorsport and even give some on opportunity to get into it. Face it if Formula 1 is to survive then the young generations need to be interested in it too.

Cookie_Monster

so ladies being paid to look pretty and do a job, bad. Unpaid* child labour, good.

I can't see it as anything other than a backwards step by mgt, sure they save themselves a few quid in expenses but taking advantage of kids and trying to dress it up as a positive is pretty low, even for F1

* granted an assumption, but the press release makes no mention of it and reads like they won't be paid, just thrown some paddock passes

Harika

Grid girls made no headline whatsover in the last decades, except in the yellow press with some drivers. I am looking at you Ralph!
On the other hand you have last years boy
who was all over the news.
And for the unpaid part, as kid standing on the grid and spending the day with my family in paddock, I am totally fine with that. I might not even need sweets to be talked into that. I guess I will be catered too.
As parent, going to a race for free! is totally fine with me. Maybe even a free Tshirt!

El_Duderino 09

skipper_G wrote:

In theory it's a great idea, in practice it may yet end up a case of who you know that can arrange for little jimmy to be "selected at random". Nevertheless the viewer isn't going to know (or care) if it's some rich kid or not. It has no impact on the racing at all, positive for PR so a sensible choice.

I never saw this level of scrutiny of how grid girls were selected.

Money talks in all walks of life. Next thing the same principle will apply to an important role like drivers. Little Lance's daddy will pay a team to give his son a drive instead of a faster driver with less money. Oh wait...

Seriously guys. The hysteria over grid girls and the sudden interest in how their successors will be selected is beginning to look like a parody of itself.

The sooner the season starts and there's some real news to talk about, the better. I'm actually looking forward to the first pre season test where Sauber does a few fast laps and people start speculating about them competing for the title.

skipper_G

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I never saw this level of scrutiny of how grid girls were selected.

Money talks in all walks of life. Next thing the same principle will apply to an important role like drivers. Little Lance's daddy will pay a team to give his son a drive instead of a faster driver with less money. Oh wait...

Seriously guys. The hysteria over grid girls and the sudden interest in how their successors will be selected is beginning to look like a parody of itself.

The sooner the season starts and there's some real news to talk about, the better. I'm actually looking forward to the first pre season test where Sauber does a few fast laps and people start speculating about them competing for the title.

Who's hysterical? Certainly not me :rolleyes:

El_Duderino 09

Pages and pages in lots of threads about grid girls. The idea of suddenly beginning to examine the mechanism by which grid children will be chosen, while never bothered to question how grid girls were chosen, is interesting.

Taking a sudden interest in grid girls income while never bothering to worry about any other entertainers or PR personnel’s incomes. Protestations that choosing not to hire grid girls is the “last nail in the coffin of a free thinking society”.

The first 2 examples are interesting and suggest that this issue has stirred up emotions that aren’t being expressed because the arguments are wafer thin. The third example ( the end of free thinking society )is hysterical though.

The whole thing seems to have

HighLine

Personally I think the banning of grid girls is more PC bullsh*t but I also think that no one will care or talk about it after a race or 2.

What is more important to me are the hideous halos. This most certainly will continued to be discussed after Melbourne. Can't wait to see the variations of "aerodynamic fairings" as James Allison talks about below.

https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/status/961300050033995776

Cookie_Monster

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Pages and pages in lots of threads about grid girls.

Maybe thats because F1 has become so dull and this is something actually interesting?
Or maybe it's simply you and your usual problem with this debate in any form.:rolleyes:

Jordan 199

Just one week to go to the first launch of the season.

Cookie_Monster

Hopefully they do it in a classy way :pac:

El_Duderino 09

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Maybe thats because F1 has become so dull and this is something actually interesting?
Or maybe it's simply you and your usual problem with this debate in any form.:rolleyes:

Maybe some people will be outraged about almost anything- even f1 deciding not to hire grid girls.

Grid girls are of the past and now they’re in the past. It’s just normal change as part of trying to grow the fan base.

robyntmorton

Jordan 199 wrote: »

Just one week to go to the first launch of the season.

And then we can get back to talking about the important stuff like “what the f!ck were they thinking with that wing/halo/paint job”

El_Duderino 09

I'm actually looking forward to the annual 'the cars all look awful this year. Pity they don't look like xxxx year cars' completely forgetting that that's what people say every year. Even the classics were new once.

What's happening with the stark fin this year, is it in or out? Last I heard it was out so I'm waiting for the 'wheres the shark fin? Cars look stupid without it'. Following from last year's 'shark fin is ridiculous, cars look stupid with it'.

Adamocovic

I don't really care too much regarding what the Halo looks like but the fact that the drivers are split in their opinions of it makes me wonder.

The ones who seem the biggest advocates for it, also coincidentally seem to be involved in the teams that are key to developing it. I remember Lewis was firmly against it, but then his team came out praising it and funding it and he changed his opinion. I know people can change their mind, and nothing against that, but just makes me wonder have the teams who are board convinced or told their drivers to say so too.

No doubt during the year there will be many drivers using the Halo obstructing their vision as an excuse or complaint during races. So we will have to get used to that!

Harika

All calm down, the Grid Girls won't be fired, but get a different task instead of the 30 minute grid procedure of the weekend. At least at the RedBull ring.
https://www.meinbezirk.at/murtal/sport/die-formula-unas-bleiben-am-ring-d2401276.html German only

meeeeh

Harika wrote: »

All calm down, the Grid Girls won't be fired, but get a different task instead of the 30 minute grid procedure of the weekend. At least at the RedBull ring.
https://www.meinbezirk.at/murtal/sport/die-formula-unas-bleiben-am-ring-d2401276.html German only

In fairness to Austrains they really work hard at making good looking women as unattractive as possible. Dirndls are devils creation.

El_Duderino 09

Adamocovic wrote:

The ones who seem the biggest advocates for it, also coincidentally seem to be involved in the teams that are key to developing it. I remember Lewis was firmly against it, but then his team came out praising it and funding it and he changed his opinion. I know people can change their mind, and nothing against that, but just makes me wonder have the teams who are board convinced or told their drivers to say so too.

That's an interesting perspective. I hadn't thought of it in terms of team Interests. I remember max verstappen talking about Lewis changing his mind. He said Lewis was all in favour of safety in drivers meeting about the halo. Then in public he would give it the big'un about how he didn't care about safety and didn't want the halo which was supported by pussies.*

*Paraphrasing