Formula 1 2018: General Discussion Thread

recyclebin

Rich Energy are to become title sponsor for Haas next season!!!!

Frank Bullitt

So there we have it, Rich Energy drink will be title sponsor of the Haas team next year. I hope they got a good look at the books.

The deal will result in a "significant livery change" for Haas heading into next season to incorporate the colours of Rich Energy, with the team’s official entry set to be lodged as Rich Energy Haas F1 Team.

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/908471/1/rich-energy-become-haas-f1-title-sponsor-2019

recyclebin

They would need to be getting cash in advance!

Harika

Looking forward this going belly up. Who is betting against that?

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Might look like this if it ever goes ahead?

https://twitter.com/borja_sanz/status/972064735213621249

Inviere

Tobacco advertising banned, but drinks filled with awful artificial sugars, sweeteners and unhealthy stimulants which are all terrible for you? Sure!

skipper_G

I refuse to believe a word of it until I see it actually happen. That Rich energy guy has a proven track record of being full of crap.

Haas done over by a snakeoil salesman I reckon, they are a young team still not been burned yet

elperello

skipper_G wrote: »

I refuse to believe a word of it until I see it actually happen. That Rich energy guy has a proven track record of being full of crap.

Haas done over by a snakeoil salesman I reckon, they are a young team still not been burned yet

Agree about Rich energy but I don't worry too much about Haas. The team might be young but the boss has been around the block a few times.

Gene Haas is a very successful businessman. He owns his own company outright and is worth a couple of hundred million.

I'd say you'd need to be up early in the morning to catch him.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Will Vettel be sacked by Ferrari at the end of 2019?

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/1033230/Sebastian-Vettel-Ferrari-SACK-Lewis-Hamilton-Mercedes-US-Grand-Prix

Cool_CM

Harika wrote: »

Looking forward this going belly up. Who is betting against that?

This has T-Minus written all over it!

Not really F1 related but thought this thread would get the most traffic. :P Does anyone remember who the poster was a few years ago who designed some nice posters of the venues?

Jordan 199

Deleted User wrote: »

Not really F1 related but thought this thread would get the most traffic. :P Does anyone remember who the poster was a few years ago who designed some nice posters of the venues?

I'll find out later. I saw a livery he designed in Forza Horizon 4.

His name is PJ Tierney.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Got an original Jaguar F1 racing rain jacket today, not much of their stuff left anymore.

AMKC

Addyson Gray Glue wrote: »

Got an original Jaguar F1 racing rain jacket today, not much of their stuff left anymore.

I remember seeing the Jaguar F1 car on display at Goffs in Naas during a snooker tournament. I say they could have had merchandise there too but it was out of my price range at the time. OI only noticed the car do. At the time I thought it was awesome. Not sure which one it was. That was in the 90's sometime.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

AMKC wrote: »

I remember seeing the Jaguar F1 car on display at Goffs in Naas during a snooker tournament. I say they could have had merchandise there too but it was out of my price range at the time. OI only noticed the car do. At the time I thought it was awesome. Not sure which one it was. That was in the 90's sometime.

Jaguar Racing F1 only existed from 2000-2004

I've gotten a few bits off eBay in the last few weeks, another one due any day now is a Jordan Peugeot jacket from the 1997 season.

Alot of the F1 range is expensive if you want all the latest stuff, some of the older stuff is still nice today,

Harika

Sky says the energy drink rich energy is on Haas for half the price as it would have been on Williams and then Ted points out that you cannot buy it in Tesco that sells every energy drink. Yeah well spotted

Harika

Addyson Gray Glue wrote: »

Got an original Jaguar F1 racing rain jacket today, not much of their stuff left anymore.

You get those in any market in Thailand or Vietnam sold as same same but different. Was buying a ferrari shirt there with a design they never used.

Jordan 199

Addyson Gray Glue wrote: »

Jaguar Racing F1 only existed from 2000-2004

I've gotten a few bits off eBay in the last few weeks, another one due any day now is a Jordan Peugeot jacket from the 1997 season.

Alot of the F1 range is expensive if you want all the latest stuff, some of the older stuff is still nice today,

Ebay is great for retro F1 merch. I got a 1991 Jordan sponsor tee (bidding for that was intense) and I have a new unworn 1995 tee with Eddie Irvine on the tag. I have other Jordan tees and merch too.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Harika wrote: »

You get those in any market in Thailand or Vietnam sold as same same but different. Was buying a ferrari shirt there with a design they never used.

Ah yeah you'd spot the fakes alright. Had a Ferrari t-shirt myself years ago from Turkey, similar situation.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Jordan 199 wrote: »

Ebay is great for retro F1 merch. I got a 1991 Jordan sponsor tee (bidding for that was intense) and I have a new unworn 1995 tee with Eddie Irvine on the tag. I have other Jordan tees and merch too.

The 1991 Jordan gear seems more valuable. Irvine would be a popular shot as well.

I had a Jordan 199 T-shirt years ago with Damon Hill in the car, no idea what happened to it.

Frank Bullitt

Honda will revert to its previous Formula 1 engine specification for the Mexican Grand Prix, with Pierre Gasly to start at the back for the second race in a row.

Toro Rosso drivers Gasly and Brendon Hartley have had use of an upgraded Honda engine for the previous two F1 races but will use older versions in Mexico City.

This is because Honda needs to calibrate its engine for the high-altitude conditions and feels it has a better understanding of the second-specification of engine than the upgrade it recently introduced.

Honda still have a lot of work to do.

Harika

Gintonious wrote: »

Honda still have a lot of work to do.

Best now with torro rosso as test team where gasly is already promoted and hartley might get an extension when he keeps it quiet. Blaming Honda now would be stupid.

Frank Bullitt

Harika wrote: »

Best now with torro rosso as test team where gasly is already promoted and hartley might get an extension when he keeps it quiet. Blaming Honda now would be stupid.

Red Bull wouldn't like that either.

Harika

Gintonious wrote: »

Red Bull wouldn't like that either.

That's why they do it this year, even if they take engine penalties every race for the rest of the season it doesn't matter as long as red bull sees progress.

Harika

Toro Rosso full of praise for better than expected performance and reliability of Honda. https://www.racefans.net/2018/10/27/toro-rosso-expected-more-reliability-problems-with-honda-tost/

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Harika wrote: »

Toro Rosso full of praise for better than expected performance and reliability of Honda. https://www.racefans.net/2018/10/27/toro-rosso-expected-more-reliability-problems-with-honda-tost/

I’m now fully convinced that the McLaren chassis was more to blame than the Honda engine, yes they had reliability problems but after watching where Red Bull & the works Renault team were yesterday says it all.

Toro Rosso have effectively done a seasons testing for the senior team.

I expect Honda powered podiums next year at the very least.

pjohnson

Current rumours of silly season:

Kubica is going to get the testing role at Ferrari with Giovinazzi still to be classed as their official reserve driver. Thats why Ericsson has stayed as Sauber's reserve in case Ferrari call up Giovinazzi.

Gutíerrez has supposedly now forced himself into the running for the Williams seat as he now really wants to return to the starting grid again after his year testing at Mercedes (which he is now loosing since Vandoorne has joined the Mercedes roster for 2019) he does also bring wealthy sponsors with him. Ocon however still hopes a deal can be made so he can secure this seat and Sirotkin still has his own hopes to retain it.

Hartley may actually stay at Toro Rosso, retaining his seat, partly due to his late season performances but mainly due to a percieved lack of alternatives that would actually be classed as an upgrade for the team.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

I wonder would Ferrari consider giving Kubica a second chance in 2020 if LeClerc outdoes Vettel who in turn is expected to be sacked if he doesn't win the 2019 title.

No doubt there are people inside Ferrari still harbouring a prospect of seeking him in a Ferrari in race trim.

Harika

pjohnson wrote: »

Current rumours of silly season
Hartley may actually stay at Toro Rosso, retaining his seat, partly due to his late season performances but mainly due to a percieved lack of alternatives that would actually be classed as an upgrade for the team.

I heard Albon is set for Toro Rosso, as they found a deal with the team.
As F1 assimilated that many young drivers next season there will be good chances for any rookie in the formula 2 grid to win in the rookie season. I look at you Mick
Sette Camara is set for a role at Mclaren

AMKC

Harika wrote: »

I heard Albon is set for Toro Rosso, as they found a deal with the team.
As F1 assimilated that many young drivers next season there will be good chances for any rookie in the formula 2 grid to win in the rookie season. I look at you Mick
Sette Camara is set for a role at Mclaren

I heard Albon is set for Toro Rosso, as they found a deal with the team.

I think the big problem there was that Nissan had him signed for 3 years at there Formula E team and then this happens. So it is Nissan that a deal had to be worked out with.

donspeekinglesh

AMKC wrote: »

I heard Albon is set for Toro Rosso, as they found a deal with the team.

I think the big problem there was that Nissan had him signed for 3 years at there Formula E team and then this happens. So it is Nissan that a deal had to be worked out with.

So for the second year in a row Red Bull are buying a driver they previously dropped out of a contract. Drivers that major car manufacturers considered good enough to give factory contracts to.

The whole Red Bull driver scheme has been a complete failure. The only three drivers to have any success joined the program really late when their talent was already clear.

Faugheen

donspeekinglesh wrote: »

AMKC wrote: »

I heard Albon is set for Toro Rosso, as they found a deal with the team.

I think the big problem there was that Nissan had him signed for 3 years at there Formula E team and then this happens. So it is Nissan that a deal had to be worked out with.

So for the second year in a row Red Bull are buying a driver they previously dropped out of a contract. Drivers that major car manufacturers considered good enough to give factory contracts to.

The whole Red Bull driver scheme has been a complete failure. The only three drivers to have any success joined the program really late when their talent was already clear.

Vettel
Verstappen
Ricciardo
Sainz
Gasly
Vergne
Buemi

A 4-time F1 champion, 2 more race winners, 2 still in F1 next year (one of which is a GP2 champion) and two Formula E champions.

All in the last 10 years.

I genuinely don't know how you can describe that as a failure.

chicorytip

The F1 championship is becoming uninteresting from a competitive point of view. The gap between the big three and the rest is way too big. Liberty needs to entice more manufacturers to enter the sport - the likes of Toyota, Ford, B.M.W., Porsche, Aston Martin, Lamborghini. These would be works teams who would design, build and race their own cars and replace the current customer teams such as Haas, Force India and Sauber who will never be capable of mounting a serious title challenge due to lack of resources.

donspeekinglesh

Vettel, Verstappen, and Riccardo were only signed when it looked like they'd get to F1 with other teams. They're not Red Bull juniors.
Sainz and Gasley are, but they've won nothing (yet).
JEV, Beumi (and Hartley) all did their best after being dropped by Red Bull.

Given the amount of drivers that have been part of the program over the years and to only have two that might have success, is a pretty poor return.

Faugheen

donspeekinglesh wrote: »

Vettel, Verstappen, and Riccardo were only signed when it looked like they'd get to F1 with other teams. They're not Red Bull juniors.
Sainz and Gasley are, but they've won nothing (yet).
JEV, Beumi (and Hartley) all did their best after being dropped by Red Bull.

Given the amount of drivers that have been part of the program over the years and to only have two that might have success, is a pretty poor return.

Vettel and Verstappen were 15 when they joined the Red Bull academy so that post above is quite frankly nonsense.

Meanwhile, if Ricciardo's talent was so obvious then why didn't any of the F1 factory teams snap him up before Red Bull did when he turned 19?

Fact of the matter is Red Bull bought two teams in F1 to expose their drivers to the top tier and they've had a lot of success out of it. The ones who couldn't make it in F1 have gone on to success in FE (Buemi, JEV) and until awful circumstances IndyCar (Wickens).

You can't call it a failure because they might be buying back Alexander Albon, for Christ's sake.

PopePalpatine

chicorytip wrote: »

The F1 championship is becoming uninteresting from a competitive point of view. The gap between the big three and the rest is way too big. Liberty needs to entice more manufacturers to enter the sport - the likes of Toyota, Ford, B.M.W., Porsche, Aston Martin, Lamborghini. These would be works teams who would design, build and race their own cars and replace the current customer teams such as Haas, Force India and Sauber who will never be capable of mounting a serious title challenge due to lack of resources.

These would be the same companies which will axe their F1 programmes when the next recession hits, or if they fail to get to the front after a few years.

That said, the grid does need some new teams...just as long as they're not brought in on the pretence of a budget cap.

AMKC

chicorytip wrote: »

The F1 championship is becoming uninteresting from a competitive point of view. The gap between the big three and the rest is way too big. Liberty needs to entice more manufacturers to enter the sport - the likes of Toyota, Ford, B.M.W., Porsche, Aston Martin, Lamborghini. These would be works teams who would design, build and race their own cars and replace the current customer teams such as Haas, Force India and Sauber who will never be capable of mounting a serious title challenge due to lack of resources.

Well Porsche and Lamborghini are both owned by VW so that is not going to happen anytime soon as diesel-gate but on end to that and VW's plans to join F1. Which was a pity.
Aston Martin are too small. Ford and BMW said they have no interest in it the way it is.
Toyota have been in F1 before and failed but maybe they could come back.

PopePalpatine wrote: »

These would be the same companies which will axe their F1 programmes when the next recession hits, or if they fail to get to the front after a few years.

That said, the grid does need some new teams...just as long as they're not brought in on the pretence of a budget cap.

Maybe Toyota could come back to F1 again and do better this time.

Harika

AMKC wrote: »

Maybe Toyota could come back to F1 again and do better this time.

They will win lemans for the next decade against themselves.
Porsche had interest if rules change but this interest has disappeared.

El_Duderino 09

The manufacturers wanted certain conditions for them to agree to take part. It has to be future technology focused because they want to use f1 for R&D while getting to advertise to offset the cost.

The smaller teams alto want a budget cap of 150m dollars as all except the top 3 spend less than the proposed budget already.

The competing drives in f1 mean that a couple of teams pulled out recently such as Aston Martin. But the big problem is that the real future is probably not in Internal Combustion Engines. So the interest in Formula E is clear to see from the number of big manufacturers rushing to take part. F1 can’t convince them to join, but FE has them queuing at the door.

Sometimes things just run their course. The ICE was king for a long time and F1 thrived from manufacturers interest in taking part. Now F1 is coasting on its reputation and I font know what needs to happen to change things.

g1983d

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The manufacturers wanted certain conditions for them to agree to take part. It has to be future technology focused because they want to use f1 for R&D while getting to advertise to offset the cost.

The smaller teams alto want a budget cap of 150m dollars as all except the top 3 spend less than the proposed budget already.

The competing drives in f1 mean that a couple of teams pulled out recently such as Aston Martin. But the big problem is that the real future is probably not in Internal Combustion Engines. So the interest in Formula E is clear to see from the number of big manufacturers rushing to take part. F1 can’t convince them to join, but FE has them queuing at the door.

Sometimes things just run their course. The ICE was king for a long time and F1 thrived from manufacturers interest in taking part. Now F1 is coasting on its reputation and I font know what needs to happen to change things.

If F1 as it is dies then I can see it being FE where the manufacturers and drivers after money go and a classic F1 with v12s where the racers go

El_Duderino 09

g1983d wrote: »

If F1 as it is dies then I can see it being FE where the manufacturers and drivers after money go and a classic F1 with v12s where the racers go

Maybe. It wouldn’t last long without development and development costs money. So no money= no future. Man can’t live on V12 engine noise alone.

tigerboon

AMKC wrote: »

Well Porsche and Lamborghini are both owned by VW so that is not going to happen anytime soon as diesel-gate but on end to that and VW's plans to join F1. Which was a pity.
Aston Martin are too small. Ford and BMW said they have no interest in it the way it is.
Toyota have been in F1 before and failed but maybe they could come back.



Maybe Toyota could come back to F1 again and do better this time.

VW will stay in Formula E under the Audi brand. They will re-enter WEC to be the first to win LeMans with an all electric car. They already reckon their electric car sales will rival Tesla by 2020.

pjohnson

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The manufacturers wanted certain conditions for them to agree to take part. It has to be future technology focused because they want to use f1 for R&D while getting to advertise to offset the cost.

The smaller teams alto want a budget cap of 150m dollars as all except the top 3 spend less than the proposed budget already.

The competing drives in f1 mean that a couple of teams pulled out recently such as Aston Martin. But the big problem is that the real future is probably not in Internal Combustion Engines. So the interest in Formula E is clear to see from the number of big manufacturers rushing to take part. F1 can’t convince them to join, but FE has them queuing at the door.

Sometimes things just run their course. The ICE was king for a long time and F1 thrived from manufacturers interest in taking part. Now F1 is coasting on its reputation and I font know what needs to happen to change things.

Has this not been said almost annually since FE was first mooted that it will surpass F1?

AMKC

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The manufacturers wanted certain conditions for them to agree to take part. It has to be future technology focused because they want to use f1 for R&D while getting to advertise to offset the cost.

The smaller teams alto want a budget cap of 150m dollars as all except the top 3 spend less than the proposed budget already.

The competing drives in f1 mean that a couple of teams pulled out recently such as Aston Martin. But the big problem is that the real future is probably not in Internal Combustion Engines. So the interest in Formula E is clear to see from the number of big manufacturers rushing to take part. F1 can’t convince them to join, but FE has them queuing at the door.

Sometimes things just run their course. The ICE was king for a long time and F1 thrived from manufacturers interest in taking part. Now F1 is coasting on its reputation and I font know what needs to happen to change things.

Aston Martin is not a big manufacturer and it only advertise's on the side of the Red Bulls. It has not cancelled that deal as far as I know.

tigerboon wrote: »

VW will stay in Formula E under the Audi brand. They will re-enter WEC to be the first to win LeMans with an all electric car. They already reckon their electric car sales will rival Tesla by 2020.

Not that far away will be interesting to see if it happens.

El_Duderino 09

AMKC wrote: »

Aston Martin is not a big manufacturer and it only advertise's on the side of the Red Bulls. It has not cancelled that deal as far as I know.

They might not be big but they were in negotiations to become an engine suppler in 2021 and decided not to get involved. Same with Porsche. They were in negotiations for 2021 and decided against it. If they're not big manufacturers, isn't that more to the point that f1 isn't even getting to negotiate with the big manufacturers?

El_Duderino 09

pjohnson wrote: »

Has this not been said almost annually since FE was first mooted that it will surpass F1?

It probably has and it might well do so. But not in the next few years.

Depending on what metrics you use, FE has overtaken formula 1. Not in viewership or prestige. But Fe has no bother attracting major manufacturers while F1 is really struggling in that regard. So in terms of a future investment, it's clear which one the car manufacturers think has the brighter future.

tigerboon

pjohnson wrote: »

Has this not been said almost annually since FE was first mooted that it will surpass F1?

Incoming rules for WEC push towards hydrogen technologies. From 2022 onwards I think. Maybe F1 is stalling a bit to try and get a steer from manufacturers as to which way to go...hydrogen or electric.

rock22

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

They might not be big but they were in negotiations to become an engine suppler in 2021 and decided not to get involved. Same with Porsche. They were in negotiations for 2021 and decided against it. If they're not big manufacturers, isn't that more to the point that f1 isn't even getting to negotiate with the big manufacturers?

What engine could Aston Martin supply to formula 1?

El_Duderino 09

rock22 wrote: »

What engine could Aston Martin supply to formula 1?

I don’t know? They were in negotiations with red bull on the team side and the FIA about the 2021 rules.

They postponed their decision which forced red bull to postpone its engine decision for next year. When Aston Martin decided to against making engines, red bull decided to go with Honda.

This wasn’t secret it was talked about during the early part of this season.

GarIT

rock22 wrote: »

What engine could Aston Martin supply to formula 1?

The engine they were planning to design for F1? I don't understand the question, every engineer supplier specifically designs an engine for F1.