Reactive Dog Guardians

em_cat

I was wondering if there is/was a dedicated subthread in A&P for guardians of reactive dogs. I was thinking as a 1st time reactive dog mamma, it might be nice to have a place for us. I have seen posts in several sections where people (rightly so) go for a wee rant or just need advice or just to let it all out.

Maybe it's a bad suggestion or it isn't I don't know.

Over to you mods...

Cheers

em_cat

Cherry Blossom

I think you've just started said thread.

em_cat

Cherry Blossom wrote: »

I think you've just started said thread.

Thanks, that made me chuckle. I was wondering what it takes to make it a sticky? Or does it need to be a sticky???

DBB

Sorry, it's unlikely to become a sticky. We're meant to be reducing what we have as it is
As long as people reply to the thread, it'll stay on or near the front page

em_cat

Ahh, fair enough, I‘ll think of something to start it with....eventually.

VonVix

Love this thread idea. This is a great recourse for people who have reactive dogs but are not quite sure where to start or would like a guideline with how to handle reactivity: http://careforreactivedogs.com/

PoppedPopcorn

So happy this post exists

em_cat

+1 for the above link. I’ll be the first to say it, I often feel completely overwhelmed by it all.

ShaShaBear

One reactive doggo here (although nowhere near as reactive as my last doggo!)
Was very well socialised, met all sorts of people and dogs on his walkies from 4 months old when we got him and then at 1 year of age, he just lost it. He can be managed, but our last old boy used to work himself up into vomiting, he was so aggressively reactive to other dogs!

jellybear

As many on here will know our baby Milo is very reactive. Very similar situation to ShaShaBear. He was socialised, did agility classes, was great with people and dogs and then all of a sudden became very timid.
He was attacked quite badly in February by a large off lead and unaccompanied dog and it was very upsetting, for both of us to be honest. Since then he's had at least 4/5 more dogs run at him and attack him. It's absolutely infuriating and heartbreaking.
It's very difficult being the owner of a reactive dog and I have to say we are very lucky in that our neighbours and people in our estate know him now and are so understanding and kind.

em_cat

jellybear wrote: »

As many on here will know our baby Milo is very reactive. Very similar situation to ShaShaBear. He was socialised, did agility classes, was great with people and dogs and then all of a sudden became very timid.
He was attacked quite badly in February by a large off lead and unaccompanied dog and it was very upsetting, for both of us to be honest. Since then he's had at least 4/5 more dogs run at him and attack him. It's absolutely infuriating and heartbreaking.
It's very difficult being the owner of a reactive dog and I have to say we are very lucky in that our neighbours and people in our estate know him now and are so understanding and kind.

Milo is so terribly cute. It’s really hard to imagine sometimes.

I often feel like I totally misread Mr C’s reactivity and seems like his triggers change day to day. Sometimes I write a small description of our walks to see if I can sort of pin point triggers.

Right now I am are trying to figure out if he has dog to dog reactivity due to hyperarousal or is it fear based.

Does anyone put yellow ribbons on their lead when they are out to signal that he/ she needs space? If so do other people totally ingnore it?

Infuriating & Heartbreaking is very apt....

Esel

Never knew about the yellow ribbons thing.

jellybear

Awh I'm glad you like Milo, he's our little divil!

I muzzle him when I walk him which helps hugely, people give him a bit more space. I've seen leads, collars and high vis vest online that have messages on them to say the dog is nervous/reactive. The yellow ribbon is great but I'm not sure how many people know what it means so maybe a more 'obvious' way of letting people know could work

Another guardian to a reactive dog here. I agree that it can be very overwhelming. Some days I just feel like a total failure. I love my Animals so much and I try so hard to give them the best lives. Hiros fear of other dogs creates so much stress for him and I hate that I haven't been able to conquer it.

I suppose for me the biggest issue is the timing of his reactions. In an ideal world I would reward him when the other dog was but a dot in the distance and keep rewarding for as long as he was calm and comfortable and work on extending his comfort zone all the time.

Unfortunately Hiro loses his sh*t before he even sees the dog. If he smells a dog in the distance, hears a bark in the distance or indeed sees any shape appear on the horizon, regardless of how far away and even if it turns out to be a bush or a man or whatever, he freaks out and warns off whatever it is, just in case. So I don't really get the opportunity to reward at all.

I had mild success with walking in an area where dogs were strictly to be kept on lead. After passing countless dogs over countless weeks and all being on short leads and therefore unable to invade his space, he seemed to begin to calm a little. Nothing bad was happening to him and his barking got less extreme and he was making real progress. And of course then several people started showing up with boisterous offlead dogs and in a heartbeat all our work was undone. The frustration and despair I felt.

Sorry this is so long. It's nice to get it off my chest and know I'm not alone. Great idea for a thread em cat.

BTW I read the click to calm book and found it very good. It helped me to see that his nerves extended to other things. One big thing I've been tackling is his fear of eye contact. For example he always sits and waits for his dinner until he's told to take it but he only looks at the bowl. To help with his aversion to eye contact, Ive been waiting for him to look me in the eye and hold the look before allowing him to eat. It's worked really well and hes much quicker to look right at me now in all sorts of other scenarios. I'm hoping little changes like this will help with his over all confidence.

jellybear

Awh BuileBeag I never realised how similar your dogs reactions are to Milo's. I also have issues with even getting a chance to reward him as he reacts so quickly. He also has a big issue with people looking at him so will definitely try out the eye contact with him at home.

jellybear

jellybear wrote: »

Awh BuileBeag I never realised how similar your dogs reactions are to Milo's. I also have issues with even getting a chance to reward him as he reacts so quickly. He also has a big issue with people looking at him so will definitely try out the eye contact with him at home.

It's hard isn't it. Everything says to reward when they first see the other dog before the barking starts and build on that but what if you don't even get that opportunity!?

Hiros funny. He's so affectionate and he just loves sitting on my lap for a cuddle. But if I look at him, he immediately turns his face away. If I ask for a kiss he'll get all shifty but if I turn my face to the side, he'll immediately lick my cheek. He's much improved now though. So I'll pick another little issue to work on and slowly work on his confidence and build up to the reactivity I think.

honeybear

Great thread-tbh, I think I’m the main reason for my dogs shenanigans.

VonVix

Deleted User wrote: »

It's hard isn't it. Everything says to reward when they first see the other dog before the barking starts and build on that but what if you don't even get that opportunity!?

With reactive dogs I have handled, I find the best way to handle that kind of situation is say "lets go!" and jog away from the trigger, if the dog I am handling remains focused on the other dog, I usually add a high pitched "quickquickquick!" and then once s/he isn't reacting towards the trigger, I give lots of praise/reward. I try to be exciting so 'my' dog is more interested in me.

My GSD is reactive of sorts, not fear reactive, but enthusiastic-reactive, he is mad about certain dogs (usually Boxers/Golden Retrievers/Staffies/Brachy dogs, he loves dogs that are wiggly and obviously enthusiastic about greeting him), but when you see a big bouncy GSD most people get the wrong idea.

jellybear

VonVix wrote: »

With reactive dogs I have handled, I find the best way to handle that kind of situation is say "lets go!" and jog away from the trigger, if the dog I am handling remains focused on the other dog, I usually add a high pitched "quickquickquick!" and then once s/he isn't reacting towards the trigger, I give lots of praise/reward.

Thats great to hear because that's what I do too and it does seem to work well.
It's tough with people though because Milo is quite handsome (if I do say so myself!! ) and people are naturally curious about him. Sometimes he's fine and other times he freaks out and becomes very reactive. It's terrible really as I love a good chat but most of the time he's having none of it and starts barking and growling at whoever I'm speaking too even though no one's ever done anything to him. I've tried getting the person I'm speaking to give him treats etc but it doesn't seem to help

em_cat

Esel wrote: »

Never knew about the yellow ribbons thing.

Neither had I until Mr C. I know the Yellow Dog Project has been around for a good bit, and I know we have the Yellow Dog Ireland FB, but the www.yellowdogproject.com is an international movement which has been going for a few years I think.

I don’t really have the confidence, in our area at least, that many people would understand as 90% of people walking dogs let them walk 5 meters in front of them.

VonVix

VonVix wrote: »

With reactive dogs I have handled, I find the best way to handle that kind of situation is say "lets go!" and jog away from the trigger, if the dog I am handling remains focused on the other dog, I usually add a high pitched "quickquickquick!" and then once s/he isn't reacting towards the trigger, I give lots of praise/reward. I try to be exciting so 'my' dog is more interested in me.

Would this not make them think you're running away from the other dog. Like there is something to fear so quick let's get away?

Would you let the person pass you out then from behind and turn back or keep going the opposite way? If theres a dog behind us or we pass a dog out, Hiro keeps spinning his head round and barking away.

VonVix

jellybear wrote: »

Thats great to hear because that's what I do too and it does seem to work well.
It's tough with people though because Milo is quite handsome (if I do say so myself!! ) and people are naturally curious about him. Sometimes he's fine and other times he freaks out and becomes very reactive. It's terrible really as I love a good chat but most of the time he's having none of it and starts barking and growling at whoever I'm speaking too even though no one's ever done anything to him. I've tried getting the person I'm speaking to give him treats etc but it doesn't seem to help

I know what you mean, I find lots of GSD-walking people want to stop and chat to me, but my fella is quite intimidated by dogs with pricked ears like fellow GSDs/Huskies/etc! Many of the ones he has met haven't greeted him too kindly or have come 'at' him too intensely for his liking, he prefers wiggly dogs.
Largely I walks, I make a point of NOT having him greet other dogs, but it's very difficult when you have people with dogs loose off leash. :rolleyes:

I generally discourage people trying to get their dog to take treats directly from someone who makes them uncomfortable. In many ways you are skipping an important step to try and have him relaxed in a situation he doesn't feel relaxed in. You are better off letting your dog take treats from you instead. Get him to do something else, like a sit (which can be awkward for some Lurcher-types, I know) or a down, and toss treats to him on the ground.

jellybear

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Would this not make them think you're running away from the other dog. Like there is something to fear so quick let's get away?

That's a good point actually. It's so hard to know what's best isn't it? I suppose I do that because if I don't and I continue to walk towards the other dog all hell will break loose so I need to get him away and by keeping it fun and high pitched he doesn't sense my fear.

VonVix

Deleted User wrote: »

Would this not make them think you're running away from the other dog. Like there is something to fear so quick let's get away?

Would you let the person pass you out then from behind and turn back or keep going the opposite way? If theres a dog behind us or we pass a dog out, Hiro keeps spinning his head round and barking away.

I generally keep my mood upbeat, I have found it works quite well in keeping a dog wanting to focus on me. I find it more important to gain distance from the trigger rather than have him/her linger in the presence of something scary too long if we're too close. I really don't like letting a dog rehearse behaviours that I'm trying to 'get rid' of, so to speak, so limiting the opportunity for them to react is a point I try to make. Hopefully that makes sense.

jellybear

VonVix wrote: »

I generally discourage people trying to get their dog to take treats directly from someone who makes them uncomfortable. In many ways you are skipping an important step to try and have him relaxed in a situation he doesn't feel relaxed in. You are better off letting your dog take treats from you instead. Get him to do something else, like a sit (which can be awkward for some Lurcher-types, I know) or a down, and toss treats to him on the ground.

Awh sorry I probably worded it wrong... I'll always give him his treat first, he gets peanut butter from an old canigest tube but I'll then offer them a go too (particularly when I can sense he's nervous)...maybe I shouldn't though..so tough to know what's going to work best as I know walking away is probably the best option but sometimes it's not possible and I also want to try to make him more comfortable I think the muzzle is also part of the problem as he probably feels he can't react if he senses or thinks he needs to, but to be honest I wouldn't walk him without it so it's a real catch 22.

Yeah that makes perfect sense. I suppose I should really do at least for now because he is just rehearsing the behaviour at this stage. We have certain places we go, knowing that it will either be dog free or very few dogs around. So he gets loads of stress free excersing and stimulation. But when we do meet the occasional dog he is just repeating the same behaviour over and over so I need to break it up and do something new.

Bells21

Has anyone looked the BAT 2.0 program? I've just started reading it and it has protocols for different issues. Once I get my head around it I hope to be able to use it effectively for one of ours. He can be quite reactive when certain people come into our house, especially the hallway for some reason. I have to keep him on a lead or else in a different room but this causes him more stress because he can't see/sniff.

VonVix

jellybear wrote: »

Awh sorry I probably worded it wrong... I'll always give him his treat first, he gets peanut butter from an old canigest tube but I'll then offer them a go too (particularly when I can sense he's nervous)...maybe I shouldn't though..so tough to know what's going to work best as I know walking away is probably the best option but sometimes it's not possible and I also want to try to make him more comfortable I think the muzzle is also part of the problem as he probably feels he can't react if he senses or thinks he needs to, but to be honest I wouldn't walk him without it so it's a real catch 22.

I think it's one of those things, you have to think about how important it is to you personally to have him greet strangers. He, as a dog, doesn't NEED to greet strangers. If you regard it as important, I'd try and see if you could set up some roleplay situations with familiar people (to him), where you stand a chat to a person for a few moments, give him a treat, let them give him a treat, walk on and repeat.

You'd be better off getting him to take a treat when you sense he *isn't* nervous rather than when he is. Sometimes you need to build a positive history where he is rewarded for good behaviour (or simply sitting there doing nothing, which is better than the alternative) in mundane situations with predictable people/dogs before a dog can start to progress to the tougher stuff.

em_cat

This is great, I knew I wasn’t alone in all of this. And massive thanks to everyone who is posting.

Currently Mr C is the:

I see you dog so you have to come to me or I’ll growl/snarle/bark my little head off, but hey if I trip my mamma she’ll let go of me and I’ll come sniff your bum, weather or not you like it!

I’n not really able to jog or run, RBKA, but I sure can walk pretty fast while begging Mr C to leave it, go this way etc. BTW, he’s a rescue who was fostered with other dogs and so indoors toatally ok with other dogs.

Also he is very affectionate and absolutely loves trick training and playing with his toys as long as we are indoors.

And yes I too, sometimes feel like I’m failing him.

shakencat

I've a well socialised, trained, happy Rottweiler who played off lead no problems!


Turns 2 - dislikes every dog when on lead!! People tell me it's a maturity phase ?


my lord, I hate those stretchy dog leads, and people with little dogs who visibly see Ralph broaden, and get larger, Huffing and puffing! but fail to keep their dog close

Also the people who stop to say
"jeez he's gorgeous "
Me: "yeah, he is, he's just not too happy when dogs sniff his bum... "
Queue them.. telling me ah, my dogs grand he/she won't do anything.
And im trying to move on out of the situation!!

I make Ralph sit and wait until the other walks by, 99% he stays calm and just watches, on edge mind you!!

I just wish he could tell me what's making him anxious!!


Oh
Also, seems to me, their dog is allowed bark-but if Ralph does, he's vicious and they look so shocked! (He only barks when really stressed)

*Sigh*

shakencat

shakencat wrote: »

I've a well socialised, trained, happy Rottweiler who played off lead no problems!


Turns 2 - dislikes every dog when on lead!! People tell me it's a maturity phase ?


my lord, I hate those stretchy dog leads, and people with little dogs who visibly see Ralph broaden, and get larger, Huffing and puffing! but fail to keep their dog close

Also the people who stop to say
"jeez he's gorgeous "
Me: "yeah, he is, he's just not too happy when dogs sniff his bum... "
Queue them.. telling me ah, my dogs grand he/she won't do anything.
And im trying to move on out of the situation!!

I make Ralph sit and wait until the other walks by, 99% he stays calm and just watches, on edge mind you!!

I just wish he could tell me what's making him anxious!!


Oh
Also, seems to me, their dog is allowed bark-but if Ralph does, he's vicious and they look so shocked! (He only barks when really stressed)

*Sigh*

Ive gotten that attitude many times. Like your dog is the one with the problem! Yeah I know he has problems, that's why i have him on a short lead in an area where dogs are supposed to be on leads. Your dog is also a problem, because he's not on lead and he's not returning when you call him and he is all up in our personal space!!!! Argh!

Sometimes when Hiro is upset and I'm trying to just move him swiftly past the person and their dog, that person will stop walking and wait for us to walk past them. It's really intimidating and makes the whole moment last so much longer than if we both just walked quickly past each other.