Reactive Dog Guardians

VonVix

shakencat wrote: »

I've a well socialised, trained, happy Rottweiler who played off lead no problems!

Turns 2 - dislikes every dog when on lead!! People tell me it's a maturity phase ?

I've seen this happen a lot. A lot, a lot. Great, social dogs when young, hit 2 and bam, suddenly opinionated.

I heard an analogy relating to this... it's like people when we are young, friends with everyone and anyone. But as adults, we don't make friends just about with anyone, we prefer people we know, trust and form bonds with. We become more selective about who we closely interact with.

em_cat

Well, Mr C is one of those little dogs, not miniature, both Mr C & I are a little frieghtened of the “ankle biters” as one of the local kids call them that go berserk.

I feel sorry for the “ankle biters” though too.

I’m incredibly embarrassed that Mr C has his ‘episodes’ and more so embarrassed that I get so anxious about it & then feel completely helpless.

I always feel a bit sad for people with large breeds who have to deal with ignorance.

As my Nan use to say, there’s no excuse for ignorance, but sometimes stupidity can’t be cured.

Where I live there are a lot of staffi mix, Akitas, Goldens, Huskie, boxers, labs, GSD, different types of Terrier mixes and a feck load of JRTs and then the ‘instadogs’...

Since we’ve had Mr C I’ve been doing my best. I do have a couple of the lads around who have bigger dogs that are working with us to desentise Mr C & at the same time their pooches are benefiting from some training.

We too have the same issue with the retractable leads. Our Mr C is kept at heel, mostly on the left as I’m a RBKA and don’t want to accidentally step on him.

shakencat

em_cat wrote:

Where I live there are a lot of staffi mix, Akitas, Goldens, Huskie, boxers, labs, GSD, different types of Terrier mixes and a feck load of JRTs and then the ‘instadogs’...

Now now, Ralph is an insta dog :P


here ye are!

https://www.instagram.com/rottie_ralph/

em_cat

shakencat wrote: »

Now now, Ralph is an insta dog :P


here ye are!

https://www.instagram.com/rottie_ralph/

He’s certainly a beaut! I only call certain dogs instadogs, it’s more of a comment on their owners tbh...we also call them hipstadogs... & again it’s a comment on the owners.

But I really wanna see the shaken cat;)

em_cat

jellybear wrote: »

gets peanut butter from an old canigest tube

We tried this with Mr C today. The pb kept ending up on his head or the ground & then walking through it...then I walked into a street pole...

I’d heard of people using a long wooden spoon, but that frightened Mr C.

Well at least he spent the majority of the time confused or trying to lick his paws while walking.

jellybear

Awh peanut butter is so messy!! We only use it cause the nozzle fits through his muzzle so it's the only thing that works for us

em_cat

jellybear wrote: »

Awh peanut butter is so messy!! We only use it cause the nozzle fits through his muzzle so it's the only thing that works for us

I make our pb cause I can’t stand sugary pb so ours is a bit goopy. My hubby absolutely detests the stuff. So I had to give Mr C a bath after, yet he still smells deliciously peanut buttery nom nom nom...

Have to say though today’s weather made for a great reactive dog walk though. We didn’t come across a single one, but returned soaking wet....

em_cat

em_cat wrote: »

Have to say though today’s weather made for a great reactive dog walk though. We didn’t come across a single one, but returned soaking wet....

Ah yes, I'm familiar with this type of walk. "Look it's lashing rain, freezing cold and windy as feck.. quick let's walk the dog while no ones around!"

em_cat

Ok, had a look at BAT 2.0. I’m a researcher so i’ve a habit of speed reading & then make bullet points for comprehension....

The gist is to set up ‘scenarios’ that are very similar to your dogs triggers, but set them so there’s enough of a change so that the dog can slow down and create a new more positive association with said trigger. It involves marking and moving on.

I understand how this works and have witnessed it in process but there seems to be a major flaw, for us at least.

We live in the city centre & neither my husband or I currently drive. We’re lucky that Mr C is quite happy in his hidey hole travel bag, it was the 1st thing we trained him on as I travel and Mr C goes with or to hubby’s office via taxi, bus or LUAS.

Also AFAIK there isn’t some dog training centre that has the space & experienced staff members who are qualified to teach & or train using BAT 2.0. I’m not saying it won’t work or be helpful but I worry because it seems to require a certain willingness that I haven’t seen in canine training centres here.

Bear in mind I’m coming from a reactive guardian perspective and I have yet to meet a canine Behaviorist who successfully uses this method. If there are some out there I would love to find out who and where they are.

Please, if anyone can expand on this I would certainly appreciate it, the well-being of our precious reactive pets need all the love, care and help we can give them!

DBB

I dunno em_cat. There are some really super trainers and behaviourists around the place... You may not have met them, but that doesn't mean they're no out there!
BAT is not a new concept by any means. Like a lot of training methods and approaches, it was being used in some form or another by many trainers and behaviourists long before Grisha Stewart came along and put a name on it. No disrespect to her, her work is great. But it's nowt new.

Seems to me a few posters here are on the right track with how they're dealing with their dogs' reactivity... But there may be some nuances missing. Maybe they're not, but I haven't seen any posts mentioning using, say, a clicker or verbal marker to mark a tiny moment of acceptable behaviour before moving the dog away from the situation... That's what BAT is... It's not just moving him away, it's moving him away in return for him showing some semblance of acceptable behaviour in a watered-down situation that normally causes reactivity.
And then the dog gets his treat... Once he's moved away, has felt the rush of relief, and is now in a position to accept a treat.
BAT has its detractors of course, because it utilises negative reinforcement to work, and "positive" trainers don't like to use too much negative reinforcenent. But this is overlooked by people, because it works well when utilised properly and with real understanding of why the dog is actually learning what we hope he's learning when we use techniques like BAT!

em_cat

DBB wrote: »

I dunno em_cat. There are some really super trainers and behaviourists around the place... You may not have met them, but that doesn't mean they're no out there!
BAT is not a new concept by any means. Like a lot of training methods and approaches, it was being used in some form or another by many trainers and behaviourists long before Grisha Stewart came along and put a name on it. No disrespect to her, her work is great. But it's nowt new.

I totally get that & was aware that BAT isn’t new as such, in fact I can remember using very similar techniques with some of my previous dogs 15 + years ago. There are several of the BAT techniques that I use as standard when training my dogs, btw I’m not a trainer, just my own.

It’s just 2.0 was mentioned in an earlier post so read Grisha’s ebook. I then went through the after behaviourist home visit training paper work schedules, of which we a few from different trainer/ Behaviourists, and compared their methods with the BAT 1.0, 2.0 and then read the science behind it all.

My point was simply whether or we have the facilities somewhere in the country that is accessible by all modes of traffic, that the BAT 2.0 could be applied in terms of what Mr C needs.

We have to do all of our training either indoors, our communal gardens or city streets.

And as you said, I have no doubt that there are some fabulously qualified experienced people out there, it could be I’ve not found them yet. I also suppose because this is the first time I’ve had a reactive dog it’s pretty new to me. So much that I got a full CBC & Thyroid check just ‘to rule out’ and if needed we will have hormonal and chemical balances checked.

I’m probably just panicking though....

DBB

Ciara d'Arcy of The Dog Den in Raheny does reactive dog classes:
https://thedogden.ie/dog-training/reactive-class/
Ciara is an excellent trainer and behaviour specialist.

Probably too complicated to get to? Also in big demand, but one of the very best there is, Emmaline Duffy-Fallon does reactive dog classes in Sharpshill, Co. Wicklow. http://www.citizencanineireland.com

There are also a number of behaviourists who do one-to-one in the dog's own environment, because it's absolutely recognised that when working with reactive dogs in the real world, you've got to learn to use the real world around you as a training venue. Emmaline does house calls in Dublin.
There's Iza Arrieta of the InterPeter [URL] http://www.theinterpeter.com[/URL], covers Dublin.
There's Suzi Walsh, formerly of Positive Dog Training https://www.dogbehaviour.ie

Just a few there to get you going around Dublin, but there are more if you look, who like the above have specific training, experience and CPD behind them.

deadlybuzzman

For anyone that's having a hard time with a reactive dog I thought I'd share my experience of meeting a reactive dog a few times and how each interaction was so much better than the previous one.
About 2 years ago we met a Rescued 1 eyed American Bulldog, as the dog was a tough looking rescue dog, people would presume it lost its eye in a fight. Actually the dog had been utterly neglected and locked away in isolation and lost it due to an infection.
Anyway this big scary (I'll admit at the time the dog did scare me quite a bit) was very eager to try and get at our dog and not in a friendly way but the family that had her didn't have her long and the training was only starting.
Fast forward 8 months and the two dogs met again at agility training and the bulldog was still a bit twitchy but our dog bowed down and the Bulldog relaxed alot.
Fast forward to last Xmas and our 2 dogs were playmates in the local boarding kennels getting on brilliantly!
Weirdly from behind they looked almost identical!
I just thought I'd share that story for anyone out there that is having a hard time at the moment, stick at it!

em_cat

Thanks all, I’ve left a message for Ciara at the dog den as the LUAS/DART will get us there, also can organise a taxi.

So far the Behaviorist experiences we’ve with Mr C have only been in the home, and some things have improved remarkably, but as mentioned in an earlier post, real world experience is also needed.

TBH, I would have loved to send myself & Mr. C to Emmalaine in Wicklow, it seems like my idea of heaven. My other half kindly pointed out that it wouldn’t have been fair to him though as we hadn’t had a holiday in over 3 yrs & he would’ve starved.....

DBB

em_cat wrote: »

TBH, I would have loved to send myself & Mr. C to Emmalaine in Wicklow, it seems like my idea of heaven. My other half kindly pointed out that it wouldn’t have been fair to him though as we hadn’t had a holiday in over 3 yrs & he would’ve starved.....

To be fair, in case anyone reading this gets the wrong impression, Emmaline isn't any more expensive than any other behaviourist, indeed is cheaper than many.
What I think you may be referring to is her residential in (her) home training, which is for the dog to stay over, not the owner! Board-and-train, when done properly on a one-to-one basis as Emmaline does it, means the dog is living in her home, getting her undivided attention and vast, vast knowledge and experience all day long, for not much more than someone would pay an unqualified trainer to board their dog in a kennel, and get one hour of training a day often using questionable methods.
I just want to clarify here that whilst such a specialised service costs money, her behavioural consultations and training classes are as good value as one can get for one of the top people in Ireland's industry

em_cat

DBB wrote: »

To be fair, in case anyone reading this gets the wrong impression, Emmaline isn't any more expensive than any other behaviourist, indeed is cheaper than many.
What I think you may be referring to is her residential in (her) home training, which is for the dog to stay over, not the owner! Board-and-train, when done properly on a one-to-one basis as Emmaline does it, means the dog is living in her home, getting her undivided attention and vast, vast knowledge and experience all day long, for not much more than someone would pay an unqualified trainer to board their dog in a kennel, and get one hour of training a day often using questionable methods.
I just want to clarify here that whilst such a specialised service costs money, her behavioural consultations and training classes are as good value as one can get for one of the top people in Ireland's industry

Yep, I was talking about Emmaline’s residential stay, I would happily pay triple just for me to get trained;)

I’m not sure how feasible it would be for me to get out to Pamela’s Park. I don’t know anything about the aforementioned dog park, but I also have an inherent distaste for dog parks in general.

One of the main things we struggle with is we had been told he’s not good with kids & is great with dogs, turn that 180 and that’s what we have.

Not only is he brilliant with kids, he likes playing with them & being surrounded by them.

Out doors he tolerates other dogs his size, off lead only and on lead only if they aren’t pulling towards him, which is almost never. He has gotten to know & somewhat trust a couple of other dogs, 3 to date. There is only 1 big dog he likes.

He’s always on lead as we live in the city & he’s way to panicked to have any recall anyway.

As far as leash skills, his foster parents did a fantastic job with those and we reinforce those every day. He took to walking to heel with a loose lead very easily and is consistent. He almost always will stand on command when we stop. He doesn’t pull towards other dogs as long as we are a certain distance away even if they are bouncing all over the place. Because he walks at heel he never goes around corners before me. Which was really difficult to get him to trust me enough to do that. He will do a look at me, but not automatically he still has to be treat trained, which does not help his pancreatic insufficiency, don’t know if it’s genetic or induced by his first owner, but is under control thanks to puréed pumpkin.

But then again, my hubby only really gets go see Mr C when he’s at his best, which is worn out, pooped and full....

Today we had a relatively positive walk that wasn’t all about training so I count that a small victory!!!!

Bells21

We have used a clicker previously. We had a horse in the field that kind alongside our house and the horse loved sticking its head in over the lowest part of the wall which our fella did not like one bit. We would have barking and dashing up and down the length of the wall. We got a professional in. We introduced the clicker and then outside while he was on a lead and under threshold we clicked and rewarded when he turned away from the horse, made eye contact with us or have another acceptable behaviour and we gradually reduced the distance and then used a long line to increase our distance away from him while still looking for similar behaviours.
I looked at BAT recently as 1 I didn't know what it was and 2 I was looking for a way to deal with a new behaviour we're dealing with. We have a GSD next door that loves prowling the fence growling and snarling and often stands on hind legs over the wall doing the same. We had put a brushwood screen over the fenced part to block and little visual stimulus that our fella was reacting too. But once he hears or smells the dog next door he begins running up and down the length of the fence and even pulling bits of the brushwood off. It's a hard one when our neighbors aren't bothered doing anything with their dog so at the moment our lad has to stay on lead in our garden if we know that dog is loose in its garden.
Sometimes it feels like a whack a mole game. You get one thing on an even keel or to a point that ensures you and your dog are happy/safe/not stressed and then another thing pops up that needs attention.

Bells21

Bells21 wrote: »

We have used a clicker previously. We had a horse in the field that kind alongside our house and the horse loved sticking its head in over the lowest part of the wall which our fella did not like one bit. We would have barking and dashing up and down the length of the wall. We got a professional in. We introduced the clicker and then outside while he was on a lead and under threshold we clicked and rewarded when he turned away from the horse, made eye contact with us or have another acceptable behaviour and we gradually reduced the distance and then used a long line to increase our distance away from him while still looking for similar behaviours.
I looked at BAT recently as 1 I didn't know what it was and 2 I was looking for a way to deal with a new behaviour we're dealing with. We have a GSD next door that loves prowling the fence growling and snarling and often stands on hind legs over the wall doing the same. We had put a brushwood screen over the fenced part to block and little visual stimulus that our fella was reacting too. But once he hears or smells the dog next door he begins running up and down the length of the fence and even pulling bits of the brushwood off. It's a hard one when our neighbors aren't bothered doing anything with their dog so at the moment our lad has to stay on lead in our garden if we know that dog is loose in its garden.
Sometimes it feels like a whack a mole game. You get one thing on an even keel or to a point that ensures you and your dog are happy/safe/not stressed and then another thing pops up that needs attention.

How long has the gsd been there?

Bells21

Deleted User wrote:

How long has the gsd been there?

A year and a half. His behaviours are constantly reinforced when our dog starts reacting and our dog has been allowed to rehearse these behaviours over and over by accident. It's our fault as often we check to see if the dog next door is loose, as more often than not he is kept in a dog run, and then we let our fella out thinking all's calm and quiet and then we realise oh crap he's out.
Thankfully it's not very often that he's loose in the garden so our fella gets to enjoy our garden but then that also means less time for us to train with our fella if the other dog is locked away.

talking_walnut

Can anyone recommend a good trainer in Galway? I've been following the REACT program and getting positive results, but it might be time to get some professional guidance.

Bells21

Bells21 wrote: »

A year and a half. His behaviours are constantly reinforced when our dog starts reacting and our dog has been allowed to rehearse these behaviours over and over by accident. It's our fault as often we check to see if the dog next door is loose, as more often than not he is kept in a dog run, and then we let our fella out thinking all's calm and quiet and then we realise oh crap he's out.
Thankfully it's not very often that he's loose in the garden so our fella gets to enjoy our garden but then that also means less time for us to train with our fella if the other dog is locked away.

Ah ok, I was thinking if he was new it might calm down. Hiro hated the dog next door to my mam's house when we first got him. He would run up and down the fence line at the side of the house going absolutely mental.

My dad put in a gate about 5ft high to stop him getting to the side of the house and break the habit but even though he's only a little fella he managed to scramble up and over it, such was his determination! This went on everytime we visited (few times a week) for about 4 months and then he just suddenly got bored with it and now he ignores the neighbouring dog altogether. I guess you're not going to be that lucky if it's going on so long.

Bells21

No unfortunately I don't think it will. There's a fence and trees down the back end of that side of the house so it happens less frequently but at the front of the house there a 4ft wall with metal railings which the GSD can stand up and poke nose through. Our house is small bang in the middle of a square plot and the dogs used to have access all the way around so we put up fences/gates at the sides to have a front/back garden so we could keep ours mostly in the back where the behaviours happens less frequently and the GSD can't hang over in full view.
Glad yours got over it though.

em_cat

Whack-a-mole is a very good analogy!

I’m so sorry for ur little fella & the GSD! With all of our previous pooches, they where all relatively well adjusted and emotionally stable. Now we have Mr C. Pure Jeykell & Hyde.

Unfortunately he just has such little confidence.

It probably sounds as if I don’t care for him, I love him to bits, as in don’t ask me who I love more, hubby or Mr C ;()

Bells21

Something that I've taken from school and used (in sure professionals in the dog world have the same/similar) are ABC charts. It really helps to break down what the dog is reacting to, how they're reacting and how you're reacting or what follows the behaviour. It really gets you thinking. A is for antecedent as in what happened, B is for the behaviour that was displayed and C is for 'consequence' as in what happened as a result of this behaviour. I found that it got me thinking how I was reacting and what I could change to improve the outcome for the dog. It also made me focus in on what exactly the dog was reacting to as in I previously thought that my dog would just react to any dog but I then realised it was when a dog came into his personal space. I then knew he could be quite happy around dogs that gave him space and I also could avoid situations where he was likely to react by moving so that another dog wasn't coming right into his space.

shakencat

Bells21 wrote:

Something that I've taken from school and used (in sure professionals in the dog world have the same/similar) are ABC charts. It really helps to break down what the dog is reacting to, how they're reacting and how you're reacting or what follows the behaviour. It really gets you thinking. A is for antecedent as in what happened, B is for the behaviour that was displayed and C is for 'consequence' as in what happened as a result of this behaviour. I found that it got me thinking how I was reacting and what I could change to improve the outcome for the dog. It also made me focus in on what exactly the dog was reacting to as in I previously thought that my dog would just react to any dog but I then realised it was when a dog came into his personal space. I then knew he could be quite happy around dogs that gave him space and I also could avoid situations where he was likely to react by moving so that another dog wasn't coming right into his space.

Sounds good, my lad however perks up as soon as he sees a dog, could be ages down the road

ElKavo

shakencat wrote: »

I've a well socialised, trained, happy Rottweiler who played off lead no problems!


Turns 2 - dislikes every dog when on lead!! People tell me it's a maturity phase ?


my lord, I hate those stretchy dog leads, and people with little dogs who visibly see Ralph broaden, and get larger, Huffing and puffing! but fail to keep their dog close

Also the people who stop to say
"jeez he's gorgeous "
Me: "yeah, he is, he's just not too happy when dogs sniff his bum... "
Queue them.. telling me ah, my dogs grand he/she won't do anything.
And im trying to move on out of the situation!!

I make Ralph sit and wait until the other walks by, 99% he stays calm and just watches, on edge mind you!!

I just wish he could tell me what's making him anxious!!


Oh
Also, seems to me, their dog is allowed bark-but if Ralph does, he's vicious and they look so shocked! (He only barks when really stressed)

*Sigh*

I wouldn't mind but Ralph is a sweetheart! Presuming thats the same Ralph i'm thinking of

shakencat

ElKavo wrote:

I wouldn't mind but Ralph is a sweetheart! Presuming thats the same Ralph i'm thinking of

Hmmm..

Could be?

Secretive name!

He's fine when introduced - sure we mind dogs!

Once the lead is on, tis a different story!

em_cat

I’m beginning to think cold weather is a trigger for Mr C. How do I cope with that??????

em_cat

shakencat wrote: »

Once the lead is on, tis a different story!

No kidding....I can't understand it. It's like Mr C can smell another dog before it leaves it's house, 50 metres away... But hey, on the plus side, Mr C has made friends with neighbours inside cat which is good.

DBB

I've just been reading a review of a suite of 3 books by behaviourist and trainer Beverley Courtney, called "Why is My Dog So Growly? Essential Skills for your Growly but Brilliant Family Dog".
Book 1 focuses on the "why" of reactivity, understanding how your dog is feeling, and getting some foundation skills up and running.
Book 2 focuses more on those exercises and how they can be used to influence alternative reactions in the reactive dog.
Book 3 brings it all together, and using those skills in the real world.

According to the reviewer, herself a certified trainer and behaviourist, though there's a bit of repetition across the books, they're an easy read, and she feels you can dip in and out a lot once you've read them all through once. She also feels that they'd be a great guide for an owner who's working with a trainer or behaviourist with their reactive dog.

Just looked them up on Amazon there... Not at all expensive either!