Advice re - Existing tenant and rent price

Browney7

Miles Hundreds Liquor wrote: »

....unconstitutional rent controls are a total farce.

I must have missed the recent supreme court judgement on this one?

Browney7

Browney7 wrote: »

I must have missed the recent supreme court judgement on this one?

If challenged they will be found to be, but someone needs to challenge them.

Browney7

Miles Hundreds Liquor wrote: »

If challenged they will be found to be, but someone needs to challenge them.

In your qualified legal opinion?

I think that Wiley aul fox Dev knew what he was doing with the "common good" piece.

charleville

What’s to say... if a LL gave a tenant notice on the grounds of renovating the house,

1) LL leaves the house vacant for a month after tenant leaves.
2) They say they have done all necessary works dry lined some walls, replastered, repainted, insulated attic, new kitchen, new tiling, moved a wall etc, new front door etc.
3) They never did any of these works but who’s to say that the LL or anyone else didn’t.
4) Tell the new tenants that above works has been carried out and now this justifies the new rent of €xxx

What I’m getting at here is that I’m trying to understand who is inspecting the properties to make sure the works were carried out, does the rtb need a contractors receipt, if so what if the LL is competent enough (ie.. qualified and not a diy’er) and is doing the work themselves, or a relatives/friend helps out etc ?

I’ve read through the rtb links about this and it’s all so vague, there is some information stating what works should be carried out (again..slightly vague) but there’s no real definition of how to prove the works have actually been done.

I put my last dime on it that there’s more controls and restrictions still to come.

hawkelady

charleville wrote: »

What’s to say... if a LL gave a tenant notice on the grounds of renovating the house,

1) LL leaves the house vacant for a month after tenant leaves.
2) They say they have done all necessary works dry lined some walls, replastered, repainted, insulated attic, new kitchen, new tiling, moved a wall etc, new front door etc.
3) They never did any of these works but who’s to say that the LL or anyone else didn’t.
4) Tell the new tenants that above works has been carried out and now this justifies the new rent of €xxx

What I’m getting at here is that I’m trying to understand who is inspecting the properties to make sure the works were carried out, does the rtb need a contractors receipt, if so what if the LL is competent enough (ie.. qualified and not a diy’er) and is doing the work themselves, or a relatives/friend helps out etc ?

I’ve read through the rtb links about this and it’s all so vague, there is some information stating what works should be carried out (again..slightly vague) but there’s no real definition of how to prove the works have actually been done.

I put my last dime on it that there’s more controls and restrictions still to come.

Best of luck with it, if you tenants knows her rights and rtb you could find yourself in a long drawn out process that'll give you nothing but heartache !!! I agree with you , your house should be your rules but this government thinks they know better. As I said , best of luck

mdebets

charleville wrote: »

What’s to say... if a LL gave a tenant notice on the grounds of renovating the house,

1) LL leaves the house vacant for a month after tenant leaves.
2) They say they have done all necessary works dry lined some walls, replastered, repainted, insulated attic, new kitchen, new tiling, moved a wall etc, new front door etc.
3) They never did any of these works but who’s to say that the LL or anyone else didn’t.
4) Tell the new tenants that above works has been carried out and now this justifies the new rent of €xxx

You are missing a crucial point here. You have to re-offer your house to your old tenant before you can get a new tenant.
So the new tenant knows the new and old price and if you have annoyed him enough beforehand, he will say that he is interested, but needs to see the house first and then will see what has been done (and if he is a little bit smart, he will have taken pictures of the before state). He then could open a case with the RTP against you for illegal eviction if you haven't done the work.

mdebets

Miles Hundreds Liquor wrote: »

It's scandalous how LLs are being forced to stay on well below market rents, often resulting in them struggling to make ends meet where they should be reaping the rewards for their hard work and investment risk.

If a LL is struggling financially today because he can only charge below market rent, he was also struggling in the last years, when he was still allowed to increase the rent, but he didn't. In this case, it's better if he gets out of the market, because being a LL is not for him.

spaceHopper

If you can legally increase 10% do that and let her move her partner in and go HAP she'll probably be very happy with that. But fore warn her that you will be putting it up 4% per year from now in.

beauf

charleville wrote: »

....It’s either get the market value very soon or I’m going to have to sell up and then nobody wins and she’ll still be out......

If you can't afford it. Sell out. Otherwise increase it to the max you're allowed.

If you've done nothing about it for 5yrs its seems unlikely its suddenly become that desperate.

Diemos

spaceHopper wrote: »

But fore warn her that you will be putting it up 4% per year from now in.

But you can only increase rent 2 years?

beauf

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/during-a-tenancy/rent-review-in-a-rent-pressure-zone-rpz/how-is-the-rent-calculated/
https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/calculator/rpz

Diemos

Diemos wrote: »

But you can only increase rent 2 years?

In a rent pressure zone the first increase can only be after 2 years but then you can increase the rent every year after that.

Fian

As you are looking for advice from the point of view of your position as a landlord - here is the most important piece:

The first rent increase under an existing tenancy is capped at 2% per annum. After the first increase it is 4% per annum. This was a consequence of a report stage amendment made as the bill was passing through the Dáil, so there was less time for consideration than might ordinarily be the case.

However you are in a second part 4 tenancy. I am basing this on your "almost the last 5 years now" in the first post - I am assuming that the first part 4 tenancy expired (4 years after it commenced) during the period between the enactment of the RPZ legislation last December and the current date.

Therefore you can increase the rent by 4% per annum. Remember to account for the notice period when applying the formula. Mark your tenancy as a new tenancy under the RPZ calculator and you will get the correct output - it is not an existing tenancy you have a new tenancy which started after the RPZ legislation came into effect.

Assuming your €1000 was set in January 2013 - so coming up on 5 years as you suggest, and new rent to take effect end March the RTB calculator would give you the results below:


Tenancy Type:
New

Date previous rent set:
30/01/2013

Date new rent to take effect:
31/03/2018

Previous rent amount:
€1000

Maximum rent permitted:
€1206.67

* Please note the amount above is the maximum increase permitted; Landlords can apply a lesser amount.

Landlords can apply a lesser amount.

Calculation:
R x (1 + 0.04 x t/m)

€1000 x ( 1 + 0.04 * 62/12) = €1206.67

charleville

So, the house is large enough downstairs as we extended it at ground floor level at the time we bought it, and I have the option of putting in an extra bedroom (legally and in keeping with the requirements), and the house would still be very spacious.

If I put in the extra room and make it from a 3 to a 4x bed house is just doing this good enough to substantially change the layout of the property and therefore becoming exempt from the rpz criteria, eg 4% rule, and then seeking the full market rent from a new tenant (asssumimg the old tenant does not want to move back in).

How does it work can I just automatically seek the market rent of a 4x bed house when the work is complete and I’ve given my tenant the required notice or is there a certain formula I would be required to follow still when seeking the rent amount at that point ?

Realistically I Don’t think I need to sell up so am not thinking along those lines.

charleville

beauf wrote: »

If you can't afford it. Sell out. Otherwise increase it to the max you're allowed.

If you've done nothing about it for 5yrs its seems unlikely its suddenly become that desperate.

Not necessarily... I just had a lot of other things going on at the time and wasn’t keeping up to date with the changing of regulation etc and I was trying to not be greedy to a good tenant unnecessarily, my circumstances changed in recent times and it’s only now I need to do something about it.

hawkelady

charleville wrote: »

So, the house is large enough downstairs as we extended it at ground floor level at the time we bought it, and I have the option of putting in an extra bedroom (legally and in keeping with the requirements), and the house would still be very spacious.

If I put in the extra room and make it from a 3 to a 4x bed house is just doing this good enough to substantially change the layout of the property and therefore becoming exempt from the rpz criteria, eg 4% rule, and then seeking the full market rent from a new tenant (asssumimg the old tenant does not want to move back in).

How does it work can I just automatically seek the market rent of a 4x bed house when the work is complete and I’ve given my tenant the required notice or is there a certain formula I would be required to follow still when seeking the rent amount at that point ?

Realistically I Don’t think I need to sell up so am not thinking along those lines.

Is the proposed bedroom going to be next to the kitchen or living room ??? Sounds odd?? I'd imagine it would cost a fair bit to do that anyway, do you have a few thousand to invest into it ?? I can see you are trying everything to get the max rent you can for the house, which is fair enough , only you were busy or not interested when the laws were changing so I do feel you are goosed if you're trying to make a big gain now. Even more so if your current tenant is size to the rules too.

charleville

hawkelady wrote: »

I do feel you are goosed if you're trying to make a big gain now. Even more so if your current tenant is size to the rules too.

Why am I goosed if you don’t mind me asking ? Is this not what the current regs are stating that I need to do ?

Even though the Current tenant is ok with moving as she understands the situation, but I’m sure she can have no option if I am playing exactly by the rules I would imagine... I’m not doing anything against regs or law here, am I ?

Graham

Did you read the RTB guidelines?

The changes to the dwelling must be of such a kind and extent that they would have a significant effect on the letting value of the dwelling. This would be over and above any change in the letting value that would have occurred due to changes in the rental market if the changes to the property had not been made. This means a landlords needs to able to show that the rent at the last time it was either set or reviewed would have been different had these substantial changes been made. For example, if the property has been extended and an additional bedroom added, what would the rent for a 3 bed have been at the time compared to a two bed property in the same area?

When you say 'putting in an extra bedroom', are you talking about changing the configuration (walls etc) or just changing the label on an existing room?

Kimbot

Graham wrote: »

Did you read the RTB guidelines?



When you say 'putting in an extra bedroom', are you talking about changing the configuration (walls etc) or just changing the label on an existing room?

He says they extended it when they bought so that to me means the room already existed, now its just going to be repurposed to a bedroom.

charleville

Graham wrote: »

Did you read the RTB guidelines?



When you say 'putting in an extra bedroom', are you talking about changing the configuration (walls etc) or just changing the label on an existing room?

Putting in stud walls and changing the configuration of the downstairs layout... there is scope and space to do this as we have a lot of space to use up, in hindsight the downstairs layout is too big as is just for living space (thankfully) this is mainly due to the fact that we extended it when we bought the house.

Graham

jonnycivic wrote: »

He says they extended it when they bought so that to me means the room already existed, now its just going to be repurposed to a bedroom.

If that's the case, I doubt renaming an existing room qualifies as substantial.

Graham

charleville wrote: »

Putting in stud walls and changing the configuration of the downstairs layout... there is scope and space to do this as we have a lot of space to use up, in hindsight the downstairs layout is too big as is just for living space (thankfully) this is mainly due to the fact that we extended it when we bought the house.

I don't see how anyone could argue that such a change doesn't qualify as substantial according to the information in the RTB Guide.*


(In my personal opinion, IANAL, YMMV yada yada yada)

charleville

Graham wrote: »

I don't see how anyone could argue that such a change doesn't qualify as substantial according to the information in the RTB Guide.*


(In my personal opinion, IANAL, YMMV yada yada yada)

Which is how I came to this conclusion/solution...

My question was though, after works is completed how do I seek the market rates at that point... do I just prove the works has been done and ask what the going rate is, or is there still a formula that has to be adhered to ??

Graham

From the very helpful RTB guidelines I keep blathering on about:

When first setting the rent or reviewing the rent, landlords are recommended to retain evidence of comparable dwellings which support the letting value of the property. If seeking this information retrospectively an average rent dataset can be accessed on the RTB website or reference can be made to other property rental reports or valuations.

and in preparation for the next tenancy:

Landlords should show the tenant that as a result of the changes, the rent would have been different to what market rent for the dwelling would have been at the time the rent was last set

Fian

Graham wrote: »

I don't see how anyone could argue that such a change doesn't qualify as substantial according to the information in the RTB Guide.*


(In my personal opinion, IANAL, YMMV yada yada yada)

Entirely agree, this would be sufficient to rest the rent imo.