Brexit discussion thread III

PopePalpatine

Maybe his mate Aaron Banks can tell him which constituency has the highest percentage of 4chan dwellers.

Enzokk

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

This is not the issue - they were never worried about immigration, and they have no plans (even in a Hard Brexit) to control immigration at the border. They plan to outsource immigration control to landlords, employers and benefits offices. To work, rent or collect any sort of welfare, you'll have to prove you are legal (which is going to drive the little Englanders who voted for Brexit insane, being asked for "papers, please" every week, but anyhoo).

The issue is goods. Under WTO rules, if goods can cross the Irish border unchecked without tariffs, they can cross any UK border from any WTO country without tariffs. Like from China into Felixstowe.

Well let's just say immigration isn't on the forefront right now. We are still only looking at the border as it pertains to customs and immigration will come later for the UK. After they have decided what border they want with the EU regards to customs, they will then get the joy of deciding what border they want in terms of immigration if the customs arrangement doesn't include movement of labour. So if they decide to stay in the single market then immigration will be a sideshow, but leaving the single market means they can set caps on EU immigration and then the argument about what and who to allow will begin.

In other news, Leave.eu has been found guilty of contravening election law by the election commission.

Leave.EU fined £70,000 over breaches of electoral law

Leave.EU has been fined £70,000 and its chief executive has been referred to the Metropolitan police after the Electoral Commission found it had breached multiple counts of electoral law during the referendum to leave the European Union.

The investigation found that Leave.EU, which was co-founded by Arron Banks, unlawfully exceeded its statutory spending limit by at least 10% and delivered incomplete and inaccurate spending and transaction returns.

Mezcita

The comments in this article are just... wow.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/958028/brexit-ireland-irexit-irish-border-eu-nigel-farage

It's difficult to not have even the slightest bit of Schadenfreude about Brexit going very badly for the UK.

LuckyLloyd

Mezcita wrote: »

The comments in this article are just... wow.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/958028/brexit-ireland-irexit-irish-border-eu-nigel-farage

It's difficult to not have even the slightest bit of Schadenfreude about Brexit going very badly for the UK.

If you read the Express and its constant articles about BLOC CRISIS and REMOANER DESTROYED BY THIS SIMPLE BREXIT POINT articles you would think like that too!

EdgeCase

Reading the Express also doesn't give you a good insight into the UK mood either. It barely meets the normal definition of newspaper. It's more like the UKIP newsletter.

ambro25

Meanwhile, with a fabulous sense of timing (our U.K. solicitor just reported the completion of our U.K. house sale earlier this afternoon), a Frankfurt-based British IFA (working for very well known German IFA outfit) just asked me about ‘headhunting’ my British pension pot and assets moments ago.

Clearly, they’re trawling LinkedIn for Brexit refugee professionals, so U.K. pension providers should get worried.

But that’s just an isolated (anecdotal) manifestation of Brexit-inspired opportunism by an EU27 outfit, amongst so many (thousands of-) others I’m sure.

Of more concern to the U.K. financial industry, is this other recent nugget:

The London-based asset management unit of U.S. financial services firm Ameriprise Financial Inc. says it's transferring assets to Luxembourg-listed funds so that it can continue to service EU customers regardless of what the final agreement between the U.K. and the EU looks like. The shift affects 20 funds, or less than three percent of Threadneedle’s 395 billion euros ($469 billion) of assets under management. The money will continue to be managed by the firm's London portfolio managers. But that could change.

wes

The express headline is just complete fiction. Irexit never had support to begin with, so there is no shock in the poll result, and secondly claiming that Farage has any kind of serious campaign over here is pure fiction. He showed up for an irexit event and that was about it (having Farage there probably hurt them more than anything).

How can the express call themselves a news paper, when there headline is just pure fiction is beyond me. I haven't even look at the text of the article as the head line on its own is sheer nonsense.

The text seems to give Farage far too much importance, and some how they seem to think the fringe irexit event was some kind of major thing, when it was at best a side show. The thread about it on here, resulted in the 1 or 2 supporters being unable to provide a decent argument for irexit.

The text actually brings up reunification with the UK? Why are they bringing up fringe idea's from nutters in the UK, that has 0 support here? Also, the suggestion we would be better off in the UK, well both Northen Ireland and Scotland are being taken out of the EU against the will. The entire notion that being part of the UK, would give us more representation than the EU is madness. The EU system actually allows smaller countries to punch way above there weight.

How that article can be considered news is beyond me. Its basically fiction that is loosely based on the fact, akin to a Hollywood film based on real life events. Truly appalling quality of reporting and all involved should be ashamed of themselves. The express has no business call itself a newspaper.

EdgeCase

I'm not even sure it was a sideshow. It was a few people in a room at the RDS and achieved zero traction.

I see this all the time in the UK. They don't really understand that Ireland's not the UK and that it's got very different politics and priorities.

They've an assumption too that Brexit is headline news everywhere. Most European media isn't paying much attention to it at all from what I can see.

An Ciarraioch

Dominic Grieve comes across as one of the more reasonable Tories in today's Guardian interview - that said, he is one of the dozen existing rebels, so unlikely to gain much traction within the party.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/11/dominic-grieve-on-boris-johnson-and-brexit-he-should-resign-yes

An Claidheamh

wes wrote: »

The express headline is just complete fiction. Irexit never had support to begin with, so there is no shock in the poll result, and secondly claiming that Farage has any kind of serious campaign over here is pure fiction. He showed up for an irexit event and that was about it (having Farage there probably hurt them more than anything).

How can the express call themselves a news paper, when there headline is just pure fiction is beyond me. I haven't even look at the text of the article as the head line on its own is sheer nonsense.

The text seems to give Farage far too much importance, and some how they seem to think the fringe irexit event was some kind of major thing, when it was at best a side show. The thread about it on here, resulted in the 1 or 2 supporters being unable to provide a decent argument for irexit.

The text actually brings up reunification with the UK? Why are they bringing up fringe idea's from nutters in the UK, that has 0 support here? Also, the suggestion we would be better off in the UK, well both Northen Ireland and Scotland are being taken out of the EU against the will. The entire notion that being part of the UK, would give us more representation than the EU is madness. The EU system actually allows smaller countries to punch way above there weight.

How that article can be considered news is beyond me. Its basically fiction that is loosely based on the fact, akin to a Hollywood film based on real life events. Truly appalling quality of reporting and all involved should be ashamed of themselves. The express has no business call itself a newspaper.

Truth is, it's all pretend.

A British politician "leading Ireland" against tyranny. No hint of irony....

We all knew Brexit was a British nationalist movement.
We know it. They know it.

We all knew, the far fight behind it are heavily anti-Irish, xenophobic, imperialist, etc.

The people behind the anti-EU stuff in Ireland were never questioned about links to these people - spouting words like "Germany/Merkel", claiming loss of freedom, yet quoting the dregs of our former occupiers.
Or that Britain actually owned part of Ireland!

Irish media do the same with unionists/loyalists.
No questions asked about their hypocrisy - echoes from the 70s media censorship.
Can't question the Brits.


Most likely, these uneducated Brits will cry about the IRA one day and the next pretend to be "shocked" we don't want destroy our country/sovereignty to help. Or join the UK?!!!!

We were force fed about our "shared history" yet the fact that was based on domination was ignored out of politeness.
Even Official Ireland can't spin Brexit.

Believe me, Brexit, Daily Express, etc don't believe 'Eyeland' want to join the new British empire, nor do they genuinely believe their country is powerful or that Brexit will make them 'great again'.

They have to pretend these things are true.

It's all pretend. They're too dim to notice irony.

They brought this on themselves.

Time the British media and government fronted up and ended the delusion.
They created these idiots. Not the EU.

Hurrache

An Claidheamh wrote: »

part of Ireland!

Irish media do the same with unionists/loyalists.
No questions asked about their hypocrisy - echoes from the 70s media censorship.
Can't question the Brits.

Not sure if it's you that had said this more than once, bit why do people keep trying to push this when it's untrue?

An Claidheamh

Hurrache wrote: »

Not sure if it's you that had said this more than once, bit why do people keep trying to push this when it's untrue?

I find as part of their anti-SF agenda, they are hypocritical.

RtÉ resident FFers, Newstalk, the Indo nuts eg Eoghan Harris will criticise idiot nationalist/republicans while refusing to even print similar stories regarding idiot unionist/loyalists.

I mean, the other day a unionist British lord made a racist comment about the Taoiseach.

If a Shinner had done the same about the British pm, it would be front page Irish news.

Tropheus

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If you read the Express and its constant articles about BLOC CRISIS and REMOANER DESTROYED BY THIS SIMPLE BREXIT POINT articles you would think like that too!

Reading the comments section of the pro Brexit Express articles is also very bad for your mental health. Faith in humanity will diminish at a rapid rate.

jobbridge4life

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Truth is, it's all pretend.

A British politician "leading Ireland" against tyranny. No hint of irony....

We all knew Brexit was a British nationalist movement.
We know it. They know it.

...

Extremely hard to disagree with that post.

FF, FG et al politicans cribbing about Sinn Fein not compromising and getting a government in Stormont. You ask them what specific area they feel compromise is appropriate in and it is a vacuous blank.

How about the other political parties in this Republic stand up for the GFA and demand that the DUP live up to their part of the bargin? An Irish Language Act now.

flatty

Hurrache wrote: »

An Claidheamh wrote: »

part of Ireland!

Irish media do the same with unionists/loyalists.
No questions asked about their hypocrisy - echoes from the 70s media censorship.
Can't question the Brits.

Not sure if it's you that had said this more than once, bit why do people keep trying to push this when it's untrue?

The express were peddling Diana conspiracies for 15 years. That's its level.
Does anyone have any idea what the prevailing mood in Scotland is? It seems to be very quiet, but there must be things going on behind the scenes.

Sand

Regardless, the poll is bad news for Brexiteers hoping Ireland will follow the UK out of the bloc - or indeed reunite with Britain, a controversial idea put forward today by Think Scotland think tank contributor Jonathan Stanley.

The former Ukip election candidate wrote: “Ireland will soon find itself without big friends in Europe. To be fair it deserves nothing less.

You can just feel the warmth of feeling towards Ireland. You could buy Express for this article alone and it would heat your home over the winter.

British nationalists will never "get" Ireland.

sink

This tweet is revealing of TM attitude towards Ireland, she is no better than JRM. They still see Anglo-Irish relations as paternalistic and are firmly stuck in the last century.

https://twitter.com/cellsatwork/status/994667150316130315

Capt'n Midnight

Such a cunning plan - is May dividing and conquering or is this just more stalling for time ?
Theresa May has divided her top team of ministers into two working groups to hammer out their differences on Brexit.

One group - Brexiteers Michael Gove and Liam Fox and Remain-backing Cabinet Office minister David Lidington - will consider a "customs partnership" whereby the UK would collect tariffs on behalf of the EU - but without the need for new border checks.
...
The other group - Remain-backing Business Secretary Greg Clark, Brexit Secretary David Davis and Remain-voting Northern Ireland Secretary Karen Bradley - will look at "maximum facilitation" - a solution based on using technology to minimise the need for customs checks after Brexit.

And of course both groups will see to eye and there will be fair and free beauty contest at the end. And there will be peace, prosperity and joy through the land and much rejoicing.




It's good to know they are so in touch with the people.
Grenfell Tower inquiry panel broadened in apparent U-turn

WomanSkirtFan8

Sand wrote: »

You can just feel the warmth of feeling towards Ireland. You could buy Express for this article alone and it would heat your home over the winter.

British nationalists will never "get" Ireland.

Absolutely. I couldn't agree more with this statement. Brexiteers will just never understand this country in terms of our psychology and the fact that we tend to view the EU completely differently to their way (their post imperialistic, colonial mindset).

An Claidheamh

"The former Ukip election candidate wrote: “Ireland will soon find itself without big friends in Europe. To be fair it deserves nothing less."


Anybody remember last year, some ukipper moaning about Ireland not giving Britain points in the Eurovision?

Every few months some jingoistic clown is saying how we'll "suffer"
+/- some comment about our European friends who aren't our friends....
+/- some desperate plea for Ireland to leave
+/- some comment about Ireland
+/- some comment about the British being victims.

They're all talk. They're useless. They'll do nothing.

The clock is ticking and it's the same old empty threats.

In my view I believe it's appropriate to enjoy these fools get their comeuppance.

Peregrinus

sink wrote: »

This tweet is revealing of TM attitude towards Ireland, she is no better than JRM. They still see Anglo-Irish relations as paternalistic and are firmly stuck in the last century . . .

Let's hope the last few months have been a bit of a learning curve for Teresa.

Enzokk

Here is a video of the full JRM interview on The View that is mentioned higher up in the thread.

He doesn't answer the questions posed to him at all and ignores the issues. If he doesn't see it as a problem then it isn't a problem it seems.

ancapailldorcha

I understand why some people derive some amusement from the more feral Brexiteers' view of the Irish question. Personally, my only reaction is continued dismay. Normally when a country has a referendum, plans are laid out for either outcome so that the public can make an informed decision. I think we've been over the whys of the result enough times here so I'll skip that for this post.

However, there's not even been a national consensus reached since the result of nearly 2 years ago on the future of this country? Does the UK want more or less globalisation? A bonfire of regulations? Singapore-on-Thames? A shoring up of workers rights? A global free trading utopia or a nation that employs protectionism? Nobody seems to know. There has been no effort to draw up a unified plan for a post-Brexit Britain or a compromise. Labour's lurch leftward makes things more complicated still as it rules out plans for a grand coalition which could perhaps agree on a foundation plan for Britain's future that both parties could agree on. Alas.

And then you look at the way political capital continues to be squandered. Both remain and leave voters are largely ok with the idea that migrants already living here should be allowed to stay. Theresa May could have hit the ground running by taking this out of play immediately. Eastern Europe's mainly young, often educated to third level migrants in exchange for older Brits staying in Benidorm. A fine exchange from this London-based expat's perspective. The EU is on the back foot while Mrs. May wins acclaim for acting to make the lives of 3 million Europeans much easier. Instead she wasted precious time on an election and trying to employ these people as a bargaining chip in a gambit that anyone who reads anything more intellectual than a tabloid newspaper would see was a moronic idea.

And then there is Ireland. The Irish get jeers, snide remarks and thinly-veiled threats from the ardent Brexiteers when they're not undermining the checks on their own government which are supposed to prevent despotism and protect the people. We're threatened with bankruptcy and told to remember who our friends are but Britain, or rather, the Conservative party has shown itself to be a particularly fickle friend. So much so that it has broken promises and pledges before it has gotten into power rather than afterwards which isn't really how deceit and betrayal are supposed to work. You break pledges after they get you where you want to be, not before.

It seems to me that the Irish government has played a blinder. While the Conservatives continue to fight amongst themselves enabled by the Labour party, the Irish have helped to make the border a high priority without a resolution on which there can be no deal. Ireland has realised that facts trump threats along with the last few hundred years of Anglo-Irish history.

Unfortunately, Theresa May has little option but to continue dancing to the tune of the far right Brexiteers and the DUP MP's. It's hard to see anything improving while they still have attitudes exemplified by this piece by Daniel Hannan who I am now convinced is the Tories' answer to Diane Abbott.

Water John

We all, that is everybody, awaits the deliberations of the 2 Cabinet sub groups, which is really weird. These then have to mesh or one win over the other, for the Cabinet to agree a position. This position TM then goes back to the EU with. Who have already said, no.
Is this, on a specific timeframe? Is there a date for this Cabinet meeting?
As ARD above says, this should have been on the table and decided, before the Ref.

Sam Russell

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Unfortunately, Theresa May has little option but to continue dancing to the tune of the far right Brexiteers and the DUP MP's. It's hard to see anything improving while they still have attitudes exemplified by this piece by Daniel Hannan who I am now convinced is the Tories' answer to Diane Abbott.

I had to look again at the date of that piece by Daniel Hannon. I thought it was a spoof dated the First of April, but no. He, I think he believes what is written in the article.

An Ciarraioch

Pat Leahy had written an Irish Times article today, claiming the Government was planning concessions on the customs partnership, but the Tánaiste firmly rules that out:

https://mobile.twitter.com/simoncoveney/status/995277104030928896

Lemming

Enzokk wrote: »

He doesn't answer the questions posed to him at all and ignores the issues. If he doesn't see it as a problem then it isn't a problem it seems.

Thanks for posting that Enzokk. JRMs eyes & body language were fascinating to watch during that interview; He notably commences blinking and avoiding eye contact when being challenged which suggests he knows he's spewing sh1te and most likely doesn't believe it or is suffering from a fair wedge of cognitive dissonance. Given the absolute conflict of interests that he has sitting on the back benches and pursing his course of action, I'm not sure which way to lean - method to the madness or "Rule Britannia" indoctrination.

Capt'n Midnight

Water John wrote: »

We all, that is everybody, awaits the deliberations of the 2 Cabinet sub groups, which is really weird. These then have to mesh or one win over the other, for the Cabinet to agree a position. This position TM then goes back to the EU with. Who have already said, no.
Is this, on a specific timeframe? Is there a date for this Cabinet meeting?
As ARD above says, this should have been on the table and decided, before the Ref.

And it's all moot because neither side has UK businesses on side. Or the full support of the conservative party or the House of Lords.

And there's the trivial issue that on one hand the EU can't allow the UK to cherry pick without upsetting lots of other countries that have trade deals with the EU and possibly the WTO.

And on the other hand , I'd like someone to explain how an e-border can work in a Provence where half of the petrol stations were selling smuggled or laundered fuel.

flatty

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

And it's all moot because neither side has UK businesses on side. Or the full support of the conservative party or the House of Lords.

And there's the trivial issue that on one hand the EU can't allow the UK to cherry pick without upsetting lots of other countries that have trade deals with the EU and possibly the WTO.

And on the other hand , I'd like someone to explain how an e-border can work in a Provence where half of the petrol stations were selling smuggled or laundered fuel.

Now there's a Freudian slip.

cml387

Liam Fox was on question time yesterday evening.
I didn't hear it all, but one question seemed to stump him.
Had he been able to agree any trade deal that was more favourable than one that already existed within the EU.

An Ciarraioch

On a lighter note, it seems the Remain/Leave divide even extends to attitudes towards Eurovision:

https://mobile.twitter.com/britainelects/status/995369133758873603

ancapailldorcha

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

And on the other hand , I'd like someone to explain how an e-border can work in a Provence where half of the petrol stations were selling smuggled or laundered fuel.

Could you elaborate on this? I had no idea and I'm an Ulsterman.

Inquitus

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Could you elaborate on this? I had no idea and I'm an Ulsterman.

Different excise duties on fuel in different jurisdictions have always meant one can make a quick euro or pound from buying your fuel in the cheaper and selling it in the more expensive. Or by buying non excised dyed fuel and laundering it to sell to the public as excised fuel.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/fuel-laundering-tobacco-smuggling-costing-1bn-annually-1.2114673

Capt'n Midnight

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Could you elaborate on this? I had no idea and I'm an Ulsterman.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/border-smugglers-back-in-fuel-trade-35737735.html

At the height of the fuel laundering about a decade ago, it was estimated the UK exchequer was losing between £250m (€290m) and £350m (€407m) a year and half the filling stations in Northern Ireland were selling their washed product.

I've posted before about 40% by volume with a UK Parliament link. Looks like the 'RA were the biggest fuel distributor at one stage. One of the peace process concessions was to turn a blind eye to some of the activities of 'the lads' on both sides because smuggling or tax dodging wasn't quite as bad as killing people or blowing stuff up.

We don't want to go back to the bad days.
Police have discovered a "viable explosive device" and a firearm following searches in Lurgan.

Capt'n Midnight

Inquitus wrote: »

Different excise duties on fuel in different jurisdictions have always meant one can make a quick euro or pound from buying your fuel in the cheaper and selling it in the more expensive. Or by buying non excised dyed fuel and laundering it to sell to the public as excised fuel.

You used to be able to buy a gallon of red diesel for a pound, filter it though a loaf of bread and sell it for two pounds when the retail price was three pounds.

The newest dyes use isotopes to make it harder to separate them out.

And yes the excise on both sides of the border can make reasonably accurate predictions on how much fuel or cigarettes would be smuggled based on the price differential. And I can remember when garages in Dundalk wouldn't sell less than three pints of Guinness worth of fuel because people were only buying just enough to get across the border.

Econ_

Coveney is being interviewed by Nick Robinson on the BBC tomorrow. Expect the rhetoric of 'no backstop = no transition' to be ramped up tomorrow. I don't think that fact has sunk in for the UK yet.

An Claidheamh

Econ_ wrote: »

Coveney is being interviewed by Nick Robinson on the BBC tomorrow. Expect the rhetoric of 'no backstop = no transition' to be ramped up tomorrow. I don't think that fact has sunk in for the UK yet.

I'd prefer if Irish politicians stopped jumping to get on the British media.
Coveney will spend half the time correcting the interviewer on their facts and then trying to reason with them while they invariably display an obnoxious attitude or indeed a pugnacious one to deflect their own ignorance.

When will Irish TV get to interview the British foreign minister?

They probably still think we're "holding them up".

They probably still think we're supposed to be doing their job.

There's also nothing to gain from these interviews.
I reckon a silence from the Irish government would be better.

Let the clock tick to June.

flatty

I truly struggle with the idea that the current rump of the British govt driving brexit are as wilfully utterly ignorant as this. Normal thinking would suggest that this is all PR, as anyone capable of passing an a level,could grasp the border question in an hour.

fash

flatty wrote: »

I truly struggle with the idea that the current rump of the British govt driving brexit are as wilfully utterly ignorant as this. Normal thinking would suggest that this is all PR, as anyone capable of passing an a level,could grasp the border question in an hour.

We are still getting position papers issued from the house of lords stating the mundane and the misleading "leaving the single market may result in the reintroduction of non-tariff barriers".
It's like watching a particularly slow kid struggle with a home work assignment.

Enzokk

Theresa May has written an piece for the Sunday Times. Basically we are no clearer on realistically what will happen or what the UK wants. What she did say was that she wanted that cake and she was going to have the whole of the UK eat it on Brexit day.

Theresa May promises to ‘deliver the Brexit people voted for’

The PM reiterated her desire to leave the single market but maintain the strongest possible trading partnership with EU whilst being able to make new deals with none-European countries.

Mrs May said she had proposed different options for a new customs arrangement but set out three make-or-break tests for the new settlement to pass.

Firstly there can be no hard border between Northern Ireland and Eire, trade and jobs must be protected included the supply chains which British manufacturers rely on and the UK must be free to negotiate new trade deals with other countries.

So we are still dealing with the PM who wants to make her own trade deals, she wants to control EU immigration and she wants there to be no border between the EU and the UK.

I will say it, she is delusional if she thinks she can deliver that. We are less than 10 months away from Brexit and she is still peddling this absolute tripe. This is an absolute shambles and the EU should call her out on this and cease all negotiations other than what has been agreed already (yes they will pay what they said they will pay for) and prepare for a hard Brexit. Waiting and hoping that this weak PM will somehow be able to make a deal that she is stating she wants will not happen.

Trust me, I’ll take back control — but I’ll need your help

An Claidheamh

Enzokk wrote: »

Theresa May has written an piece for the Sunday Times. Basically we are no clearer on realistically what will happen or what the UK wants. What she did say was that she wanted that cake and she was going to have the whole of the UK eat it on Brexit day.

Theresa May promises to ‘deliver the Brexit people voted for’



So we are still dealing with the PM who wants to make her own trade deals, she wants to control EU immigration and she wants there to be no border between the EU and the UK.

I will say it, she is delusional if she thinks she can deliver that. We are less than 10 months away from Brexit and she is still peddling this absolute tripe. This is an absolute shambles and the EU should call her out on this and cease all negotiations other than what has been agreed already (yes they will pay what they said they will pay for) and prepare for a hard Brexit. Waiting and hoping that this weak PM will somehow be able to make a deal that she is stating she wants will not happen.

Trust me, I’ll take back control — but I’ll need your help

If they're going to say Éire, they could spell it properly.

With the fada .

An Claidheamh

http://www.thejournal.ie/coveney-brexit-backstop-4009996-May2018/


'Brit Basher'?

That was Ray Houghton right?

Larbre34

An Claidheamh wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/coveney-brexit-backstop-4009996-May2018/


'Brit Basher'?

That was Ray Houghton right?

In the case of Sammy and his ilk, Coveney should keep slapping

Infini

Larbre34 wrote: »

In the case of Sammy and his ilk, Coveney should keep slapping

Far as I'm concerned the DUP helped create this so they can own this. They're the ones who did unionism the biggest disservice by creating the dividing issue that reactivated the nationalist unification question so if reunification of Ireland happens they're the ones reaponsible. Any BS can and will be called out.

Capt'n Midnight

fash wrote: »

We are still getting position papers issued from the house of lords stating the mundane and the misleading "leaving the single market may result in the reintroduction of non-tariff barriers".
It's like watching a particularly slow kid struggle with a home work assignment.

Actually the Lords are providing hard numbers while the Commons is still faffing about.

The Lords say: "If an agreement cannot be negotiated, Brexit is likely to result in an average tariff on food imports of 22%. While this would not equate to a 22% increase in food prices for consumers, there can be no doubt that prices paid at the checkout would rise. To counteract this the government could cut tariffs on all food imports, EU and non-EU, but this would pose a serious risk of undermining UK food producers who could not compete on price".

https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2018/0513/962885-brexit-britain-food/

Half the UK’s food is imported - 30% comes from the EU, and another 11% comes from non-EU countries under the terms of trade deals negotiated by the EU.

...
That’s 40 separate deals covering 56 individual countries that will have to be renegotiated by the British one by one after they leave the EU, as well as negotiating a trade agreement with the EU, its number one trade partner.

And, those 41 renegotiated deals will impact on every other trade deal the UK has or will have.

50% Homegrown.
41% EU trade deals -so tariffs until negotiations complete or they sacrifice domestic producers on the alter of free trade

That leaves just 9% on the open market.

An Claidheamh

https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/puppy-farms-and-squeaky-fiddles-why-paddybashing-is-back-in-vogue-36894905.html?__twitter_impression=true


An article about the British compulsion to offend.

Surprising, it's from the Indo though!


They're columnists/owners would often be uncle Tom's.

LeinsterDub

An Claidheamh wrote: »

https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/puppy-farms-and-squeaky-fiddles-why-paddybashing-is-back-in-vogue-36894905.html?__twitter_impression=true


An article about the British compulsion to offend.

Surprising, it's from the Indo though!


They're columnists/owners would often be uncle Tom's.

Jesus the indo is such a rag. When did it become so poor

Leroy42

So Gove was on the BBC this morning, and although he didn't acknowledge the Boris line what the NCP was crazy, he said that it had many problems. So he is pretty much ruling that out, that don't say these things lightly, could just have easily stated that both were under serious consideration etc etc.

So now we have at least 2 of the cabinet set against the PM's preferred option. And to date we have not seen anything from TM that would indicate she had the authority or leadership to drag those that disagree with her.

And even if, against all evidence, she somehow manages it, she then has to somehow get the EU to agree to discuss an proposal they have already rejected.

You have the quite bizarre piece today in the Sunday Times from TM, basically pleading for everyone to just believe her. SHe offered nothing concrete, nothing of note. I note that the agreement to pay the divorce bill is now touted as some form of 'win' for the UK, when leading up to it people were going mad that anything would have to be paid, that it was blackmail. Even now, the likes of JRM are still stating that they will withhold the payments unless the EU agree with what they want.

They fail to see the issue with trying to sell an idea whereby a 3rd country would be charge of the collection and administration of tariffs and regulations (under the proposed NCP) whilst at the same time threatening to withhold payments for prior agreements based on not getting what they want.

TL:DR - Didn't mean to write that much but once you start to think of the level of cackhandedness of the whole thing it just keeps rolling.

trellheim

Time is of the essence. Barnier must be going ape trying to figure out what they are up to.

EdgeCase

trellheim wrote: »

Time is of the essence. Barnier must be going ape trying to figure out what they are up to.

At this stage, I'd say he's well used to it!

I'm resigned to their being a crash out at this stage. It's a likely, if highly undesirable, outcome.