Brexit discussion thread III

blackcard

BonnieSituation wrote: »

charlie14 wrote: »

I would have thought being Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade would involve at least a bit of diplomacy.
To go talking about a United Ireland in the middle of discussions on avoiding a hard border certainly wasn`t very diplomatic imo.

Ah come on Charlie. If he didn't say that the Dupers would have found some other issue. It really doesn't matter what a Dublin govt will say.

I don't get why Nationalists are constantly not allowed to "aspire" but Unionism gets to gloat at every turn.

Some of the gash that came out yesterday was ridiculous. Junior going on how the "EU must regret giving the Republic a veto"... Our sovereignty as an independent state and member of the EU gave us that veto. Moron.

The DUP sold the north down the swanny yesterday and the rest of Britain. Completely overplayed their hand and they only get to do that once.

I feel like we are watching the last throes of Ulster Unionism. It's great.

It seems to me that Arlene, Nigel Dodds, Sammy Wilson et al can tell us to butt out, mind our own business, state that we are too aggressive. Yet no one can criticise the DUP as they would throw their toys out of the pram. It really is like dealing with a spoilt child.

MPFGLB

I live in London and i am thorn

I am a committed remainer and always was and what I see from the UK government beggars belief
I do want them it sort it for our economy is going to hell in a handcart

But on the other hand I so want rid of the Tories and the DUP losing big at the election that is coming (serves them right)

I want come uppance for DUP, Right wing Tories and Brexiteers
but I want UK economy to be strong and no hard Brexit

Oooooh hard choice

Oh which way will I go....the hell with it..... come uppance it is

Un1corn

MPFGLB wrote: »

I live in London and i am thorn

I am a committed remainer and always was and what I see from the UK government beggars belief
I do want them it sort it for our economy is going to hell in a handcart

But on the other hand I so want rid of the Tories and the DUP losing big at the election that is coming (serves them right)

I want come uppance for DUP, Right wing Tories and Brexiteers
but I want UK economy to be strong and no hard Brexit

Oooooh hard choice

Oh which way will I go....the hell with it..... come uppance it is

I really feel there is some poetic justice here. This is the British empire coming back to haunt them. If they were not in a confidence and supply agreement with the DUP the British would throw Northern Ireland to the dogs. It's actually a pity. Had May not called the election the Unionist response and position would be more or less untenable.

Enzokk

I can see a path forward where the UK will accept the new buzz word, regulatory alignment, not just for NI but for the whole UK. This would solve the border problem and it will set up trade talks that the UK needs.

But what will this mean in practice? Surely the EU will insist that the UK adopts the wording of the agreement but change that is applies to the whole UK instead of only Northern Ireland. This will then in effect mean that the UK will have similar, but not the same, rules as the EU to ensure that there will not need to be a border. But the UK will have no say in the drafting of the EU rules and will have to change their own rules to ensure that they keep the border at bay.

Now for me this is a good thing for the EU and Ireland. The UK will not diverge from the EU but will have to follow the EU rules. For the UK this will be a step down from their red lines and their ability to sign new trade deals will be severely curtailed by the regulatory alignment. This will be taking back a little control, but only a little. Maybe they will be able to "control" immigration, but I would not be surprised if they spin the current rules on EU immigration controls as a new compromise they have received.

David Davis: Northern Ireland plan would apply to whole UK

“The presumption of the discussion was that everything we talked about applied to the whole United Kingdom,” he said.

“Alignment isn’t harmonisation. It isn’t having exactly the same rules. It is sometimes having mutually recognised rules, mutually recognised inspection – that is what we are aiming at.”

J Mysterio

The (UK) Independent:

Brexit latest: Theresa May's hopes of rescuing EU negotiations hit fresh setback as DUP talks are delayed

No 10 admits it does not know when crucial talks to resolve dispute with Arlene Foster will go ahead

Seems like Arlene is in a right huff and is giving Britain the silent treatment. Stomping about the place and slamming doors.

Un1corn

I reckon, the only solution here is for Theresa May and Arlene Foster to see which of them can throw a boot the furthest over Big Ben. Winner takes all.

J Mysterio

The subtitle on the main image for the Independent story is absolutely priceless.


"Theresa May and Arlene Foster in happier times"

Bar_Prop

She's really going to be left with walking away from the talks or walking away from the DUP.

I suspect she'll be cancelling her next couple of Easyjets to the mainland.

ThisRegard

J Mysterio wrote: »

The (UK) Independent:

Brexit latest: Theresa May's hopes of rescuing EU negotiations hit fresh setback as DUP talks are delayed

No 10 admits it does not know when crucial talks to resolve dispute with Arlene Foster will go ahead

Seems like Arlene is in a right huff and is giving Britain the silent treatment. Stomping about the place and slamming doors.

It's ridiculous, May is impotent in this whole farce and the EU know it.

Itssoeasy

I've just been relistening to BBC five live breakfast and they had a DUP ex minister on and he was saying that Enda Kenny was much more of a friend and friendly towards the Norths position. Was he though ? He was saying that Leo was using more aggressive language.

It seems to me that the DUP see a new young Taoiseach and think they can push him around and weren't expecting him to push back.

Itssoeasy

Un1corn wrote: »

I reckon, the only solution here is for Theresa May and Arlene Foster to see which of them can throw a boot the furthest over Big Ben. Winner takes all.

Yep. Whoever can loft the boot over the scaffold on Big Ben deserves all the spoils.

MPFGLB

Enzokk wrote: »

I can see a path forward where the UK will accept the new buzz word, regulatory alignment, not just for NI but for the whole UK. This would solve the border problem and it will set up trade talks that the UK needs.

But what will this mean in practice? Surely the EU will insist that the UK adopts the wording of the agreement but change that is applies to the whole UK instead of only Northern Ireland. This will then in effect mean that the UK will have similar, but not the same, rules as the EU to ensure that there will not need to be a border. But the UK will have no say in the drafting of the EU rules and will have to change their own rules to ensure that they keep the border at bay.

Now for me this is a good thing for the EU and Ireland. The UK will not diverge from the EU but will have to follow the EU rules. For the UK this will be a step down from their red lines and their ability to sign new trade deals will be severely curtailed by the regulatory alignment. This will be taking back a little control, but only a little. Maybe they will be able to "control" immigration, but I would not be surprised if they spin the current rules on EU immigration controls as a new compromise they have received.

David Davis: Northern Ireland plan would apply to whole UK

You would think that this will be the way forward but dont be surprised if some right wing Torys throw a spanner in the works when they gets wind of this
Shower of ill informed idiotic lunatics

And as for the DUP...saw them on the news ..look like an ageing gang of one time prison inmates...

The world is laughing it ass off at UK at the momnet

lawred2

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I've just been relistening to BBC five live breakfast and they had a DUP ex minister on and he was saying that Enda Kenny was much more of a friend and friendly towards the Norths position. Was he though ? He was saying that Leo was using more aggressive language.

It seems to me that the DUP see a new young Taoiseach and think they can push him around and weren't expecting him to push back.

Leo and Simon are a new generation of Irish politician. A lot more confident on the national stage.

Our auld lads liked to be the big men at home, talk down to everyone only to act like poodles as soon as they stepped off a plane anywhere..

Itssoeasy

lawred2 wrote: »

Leo and Simon are a new generation of Irish politician. A lot more confident on the national stage.

Our auld lads liked to be the big men at home, talk down to everyone only to act like poodles as soon as they stepped off a plane anywhere..

There might be something to it alright. I have to hold my hand up and say I was worried how varadkar and Coveney would handle this but so far they seem to be holding firm. Let's hope they can stay the course.

Leroy42

TBF, Leo and Simon have all the cards in their favour. The trick was getting the EU to fully endorse that NI was a phase 1 red line issue (if that was done to them then they deserve credit for that).

Otherwise all they have done is the exact that anyone would expect.

I'm not being harsh (or at least not trying to be) but I think we are judging them based on pretty low expectations (maybe a comparison to May).

Itssoeasy

Leroy42 wrote: »

TBF, Leo and Simon have all the cards in their favour. The trick was getting the EU to fully endorse that NI was a phase 1 red line issue (if that was done to them then they deserve credit for that).

Otherwise all they have done is the exact that anyone would expect.

I'm not being harsh (or at least not trying to be) but I think we are judging them based on pretty low expectations (maybe a comparison to May).

Well the Republic of Ireland is in the EU and will continue to be, so why shouldn't the EU not get behind our unique position in regards to the north ? And we've been the good boys of Europe good or bad over the years.

Leroy42

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Well the Republic of Ireland is in the EU and will continue to be, so why shouldn't the EU not get behind our unique position in regards to the north ? And we've been the good boys of Europe good or bad over the years.

Well thats the point, exactly what have they done besides not made a total bags of things (which I agree that May etc have done so kudos for not doing that)

The Rape of Lucretia

Itssoeasy wrote: »

And we've been the good boys of Europe good or bad over the years.

Mmmmmm. They had to ask us to resit our progress exams twice. We werent exactly teachers pet either.

Itssoeasy

Leroy42 wrote: »

Well thats the point, exactly what have they done besides not made a total bags of things (which I agree that May etc have done so kudos for not doing that)

I agree. The people on the radio who support brexit saying it's up to us to sort the border. My arse it is. The old phrase "you broke it you bought it" comes to mind. The UK voted to leave, so it's up to them to sort out the land border that's been there since the 1920s. The Irish government should stick to their guns.

I'm convinced the majority of the people who voted to leave didn't understand what that actually meant and it seems the British government didn't think it would happen and didn't have a plan.

steddyeddy

J Mysterio wrote: »

The (UK) Independent:

Brexit latest: Theresa May's hopes of rescuing EU negotiations hit fresh setback as DUP talks are delayed

No 10 admits it does not know when crucial talks to resolve dispute with Arlene Foster will go ahead

Seems like Arlene is in a right huff and is giving Britain the silent treatment. Stomping about the place and slamming doors.

I'm glad that the rest of the UK gets to see this. One of my colleagues in England apologised to me for the unionists the plantation left in Ireland. I said they weren't all that crazy.

It raises a question though. What do normal unionists think of the fact that she claims to represent Northern Ireland?

An Ciarraioch

steddyeddy wrote: »

I'm glad that the rest of the UK gets to see this. One of my colleagues in England apologised to me for the unionists the plantation left in Ireland. I said they weren't all that crazy.

It raises a question though. What do normal unionists think of the fact that she claims to represent Northern Ireland?

Not sure what the unionist/nationalist poster divide is on Slugger O'Toole, but Foster seems to be getting slated by allcomers there. Meanwhile, May isn't exactly in a rush, it seems:

https://mobile.twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/938151716213620737

Enzokk

MPFGLB wrote: »

You would think that this will be the way forward but dont be surprised if some right wing Torys throw a spanner in the works when they gets wind of this
Shower of ill informed idiotic lunatics

And as for the DUP...saw them on the news ..look like an ageing gang of one time prison inmates...

The world is laughing it ass off at UK at the momnet

It will be fascinating to watch this play out in the UK. If this is the path that Theresa May chooses she will not get support from some of her party. She will need to sell it to the SNP or Labour to make up for those lost votes. What will she do will be interesting to see.

Either she goes for a compromise or it's a hard Brexit. I know which one JRM and Johnson is aiming for. The DUP position in this will be fascinating as well. They have basically said they have no problem with the wording as long as it applies to the whole of the UK and not only Northern Ireland. Will they still back it if it is regulatory equivalence as it means a soft Brexit? They would then be seen as the party of no, which they are, but perceptions will be important for them.

And then we have the situation in Scotland where Ruth Davidson has nailed her colours to the mast and she basically wants single market access and customs union with the EU for Scotland. I think she has taken the pulse of her constituents and realise that running with the Brexit Tories will not work in the next election. This is not in keeping with the UK governments pronouncements before today of leaving the single market and the customs union. So will she start taking a more vocal role for Scotland?

ThisRegard

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Mmmmmm. They had to ask us to resit our progress exams twice. We werent exactly teachers pet either.

Two different exams.

Phonehead

MPFGLB wrote: »

The world is laughing it ass off at UK at the moment

I live in Canada and to be honest Brexit isn't really the big news ticket item but it does get it's few minutes on the hourly news reports. Generally it is being reported as if the British are in a state of complete turmoil and that the EU are dealing with a Government who (A) don't know what they want and (B) don't have the unity internally to deliver an agreement.

Interestingly, yesterdays shambles is very much being sold as a DUP issue, the national broadcaster even went as far as saying that the Unionists are in essence not living up to the Good Friday Agreement

-Ireland, which will remain in the EU, wants an open border with Northern Ireland, the same arrangement it has had since the 1998 Good Friday agreement that ended the decades of political violence in the north known as "the Troubles."

British Prime Minister Theresa May had offered a compromise she believed would make that happen — allowing Northern Ireland to remain in the EU customs union and continue to follow EU regulations.

But the Democratic Unionist Party said later Monday it "will not accept" the deal. -

An Ciarraioch

Enzokk wrote: »

It will be fascinating to watch this play out in the UK. If this is the path that Theresa May chooses she will not get support from some of her party. She will need to sell it to the SNP or Labour to make up for those lost votes. What will she do will be interesting to see.

Either she goes for a compromise or it's a hard Brexit. I know which one JRM and Johnson is aiming for. The DUP position in this will be fascinating as well. They have basically said they have no problem with the wording as long as it applies to the whole of the UK and not only Northern Ireland. Will they still back it if it is regulatory equivalence as it means a soft Brexit? They would then be seen as the party of no, which they are, but perceptions will be important for them.

And then we have the situation in Scotland where Ruth Davidson has nailed her colours to the mast and she basically wants single market access and customs union with the EU for Scotland. I think she has taken the pulse of her constituents and realise that running with the Brexit Tories will not work in the next election. This is not in keeping with the UK governments pronouncements before today of leaving the single market and the customs union. So will she start taking a more vocal role for Scotland?

Perhaps she sees the longer game - after Corbyn's surge, the Scottish Tories have fallen to third place in the polls, so maybe she's eyeing a safe English seat, as she has been tipped as a future PM?

MPFGLB

Labour MP said it all today ...The price of Brexit being peace in Ireland and breakup of the UK is too much

Alos the DUP are slanting it all as a problem by Ireland and EU as are many leadign Tory MPS ....you cant really deal with that kind of crazy..

Bar_Prop

MPFGLB wrote: »

Labour MP said it all today ...The price of Brexit being peace in Ireland and breakup of the UK is too much

I would wonder what percentage of the Eurosceptic wing the Tory party may find it a reasonable trade-off?

blanch152

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

In what way can it be argued that becoming an regulatory dependency of the EU improves the current UK situation ?

Surely he is dissembling, and that was not the intention yesterday morning. They only meant to make NI such a dependency and cleave it away from the part of the UK that he sees matters - GB. NI is a troublesome 'Irish Problem' that is getting in the way of the real UK getting on with its Brexit plans.

And just a hypothetical curio, if anyone knows the answer - does Westminster have the power to jettison NI from the UK ?

Not any more, they agreed in the GFA to respect the wishes of the majority of people in Northern Ireland. Therefore, as long as Northern Ireland continues to want to remain part of the UK, they are bound to keep it.

Mr.Nice Guy

I think this impasse is going to end with the Irish government and EU conceding some new terminology. I don't see any alternative.

You have three main actors involved: Irish govt./EU, the British government, the DUP. One of these has to back down for their to be a deal.

• DUP compromise? I see little chance of that. There's no incentive for them to sign up to an agreement which is seen as weakening NI's constitutional position within the UK - particularly when during the Brexit referendum they insisted this would not happen and was "project fear". Some say the possibility of Corbyn as PM might spook them, but not as much as being seen as having weakened NI's relationship with the UK. That is something they will nevvvvvaaaarrrrr countenance.
  
  
• May back down? It will likely be the end of her as it would entail going over the DUP's heads. They would pull their support and her backbenchers would call for her head. Why would she do something like this which would cement her political career as one of failure? It may be an inevitability that it ends in failure but this course of action would guarantee it.
  
  
• Irish govt./EU compromise? This is the most likely result. The EU has a history of imaginative solutions to seemingly intractable problems. It is also the case that the Irish government has already shown flexibility over the terms "convergence" and "alignment".

I suspect some sort of language: "regulatory equivalence", "regulatory cooperation" will be put forward as a way to break the deadlock. Safeguards will be put in place that these will in no way alter the constitutional position of NI within the UK (not that this was ever a real issue but the DUP will need something to take back to their base).

The end result will be the DUP can sell this as a big improvement on what was to be agreed originally on Monday. "We stopped Leo Varadkar and the Irish government's plan to displace Northern Ireland's role within the UK" and the DUP supporters will lap this up, no matter how nonsensical it really is.

I am sure the onus will be up to our side to find some sort of compromise because you can't expect reasonable solutions, indeed reason itself, from the unreasonable.

4068ac1elhodqr

MPFGLB wrote: »

Labour MP said it all today ...The price of Brexit being peace in Ireland and breakup of the UK is too much...

The breakup of the UK will come faster, cleaner and quicker via the Scots in Alba. Odds have reduced very recently for a 2018 referendum. More likely 2022/3 or thereabouts which still isn't that far away.

...and all (88.3%) of the cash-money reckon they'll leave

Jayop

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I've just been relistening to BBC five live breakfast and they had a DUP ex minister on and he was saying that Enda Kenny was much more of a friend and friendly towards the Norths position. Was he though ? He was saying that Leo was using more aggressive language.

It seems to me that the DUP see a new young Taoiseach and think they can push him around and weren't expecting him to push back.

Could be other reasons why they don't like Leo specifically going by what a lot of them have said in the past about people from certain groups.

Jayop

Just a wee note as well, credit where it's due. I've been one of the biggest FG critics in the past and I've called Leo a Westbrit Partitionist before, however I do think they are handling this as well as could be done. Fair play.

ancapailldorcha

Posts deleted. Please refrain from posting random images and one-liners. Thanks.

Itssoeasy

Jayop wrote: »

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I've just been relistening to BBC five live breakfast and they had a DUP ex minister on and he was saying that Enda Kenny was much more of a friend and friendly towards the Norths position. Was he though ? He was saying that Leo was using more aggressive language.

It seems to me that the DUP see a new young Taoiseach and think they can push him around and weren't expecting him to push back.

Could be other reasons why they don't like Leo specifically going by what a lot of them have said in the past about people from certain groups.

You'd hope that isn't the case.

Mr.Nice Guy

There's a Spotlight special starting on BBC NI right now on Brexit.

Sand

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I think this impasse is going to end with the Irish government and EU conceding some new terminology. I don't see any alternative.

You have three main actors involved: Irish govt./EU, the British government, the DUP. One of these has to back down for their to be a deal.

• DUP compromise? I see little chance of that. There's no incentive for them to sign up to an agreement which is seen as weakening NI's constitutional position within the UK - particularly when during the Brexit referendum they insisted this would not happen and was "project fear". Some say the possibility of Corbyn as PM might spook them, but not as much as being seen as having weakened NI's relationship with the UK. That is something they will nevvvvvaaaarrrrr countenance.
  
  
• May back down? It will likely be the end of her as it would entail going over the DUP's heads. They would pull their support and her backbenchers would call for her head. Why would she do something like this which would cement her political career as one of failure? It may be an inevitability that it ends in failure but this course of action would guarantee it.
  
  
• Irish govt./EU compromise? This is the most likely result. The EU has a history of imaginative solutions to seemingly intractable problems. It is also the case that the Irish government has already shown flexibility over the terms "convergence" and "alignment".

I suspect some sort of language: "regulatory equivalence", "regulatory cooperation" will be put forward as a way to break the deadlock. Safeguards will be put in place that these will in no way alter the constitutional position of NI within the UK (not that this was ever a real issue but the DUP will need something to take back to their base).

The end result will be the DUP can sell this as a big improvement on what was to be agreed originally on Monday. "We stopped Leo Varadkar and the Irish government's plan to displace Northern Ireland's role within the UK" and the DUP supporters will lap this up, no matter how nonsensical it really is.

I am sure the onus will be up to our side to find some sort of compromise because you can't expect reasonable solutions, indeed reason itself, from the unreasonable.

I disagree that there can be a fudge or compromise on the CU/SM and therefore the border. The single market is not merely 27 states aligning regulations and independently inspecting them. It is 27 states under one set of regulations (though implementation can be local) and the ECJ enforcing those regulations. That's the only reason the SM can function as it does.

Now, either NI is under those regulations and the ECJ remit, or it is not. If it is not, then a border must exist and must be enforced. Ambiguity in wording might allow the UK to save some face while backing down, but the UK has to back down if a hard border is to be avoided.

I think there is a very real risk Phase II will be ruled out next week, until March at the earliest. UK businesses will begin to trigger their plans then. That will really put the pressure on May. The DUP will not compromise. The EU cannot compromise. May doesn't have the votes to compromise. I expect she either attempts to secure some form of 'national government' with Labour to deliver a soft Brexit, or presuming that fails resigns and calls an election in January, to try get a functioning majority to do a deal in March: be it Tory or Labour led.

Infini

MPFGLB wrote: »

Labour MP said it all today ...The price of Brexit being peace in Ireland and breakup of the UK is too much

Alos the DUP are slanting it all as a problem by Ireland and EU as are many leadign Tory MPS ....you cant really deal with that kind of crazy..

They're going to be torn apart in England over this afink, the term "They that sow the wind, shall reap the whirlwind" comes to mind. No amount of shrill whinging is gonna outdo the hard reality this time which is "where the facts? Whats your plan for post brexit that is viable and works?". They cant do anything but implode in impotent rage because they KNOW in the back of their heads that they have nothing so they rant and rave with incoherent statements that fall flat.

I said it before that Brexit might be ended before its allowed to proceed. Reason being is that

1) The only thing that will force these gombeens to face reality is when that Hard Reality hits them in the face at what they're about to do will badly damage them and all their promises will come to naught,
2) The Referendum was not won on facts but lies and fantasy and those that pushed for it have been shown up as the emperor with no clothes. Everything promised for leave has been revealed as a lie.
3) The reality of a Hard Brexit actually happening is being matched by the reality of the UK breaking up. Scotland is pushing for independence if this happens and its a certainty that when a second referendum happens the Scots will nope out of this mess fast. As for Northern Ireland the bitter unionists that pushed for brexit will find their economy shrinking, people turning against them when it does and the very real risk of them facing a border poll down the road that could be actually won in favour of reunification as the whole episode will show that London will happy throw em under the bus if it suits them not to mention those people whos livelyhoods were ruined by this will be out for some well deserved revenge. The ol shinners don't have to do a thing because this whole exercise does all the work for them! All Ireland reunification made possible by All England Incompetence!

Ireland doesn't have to do anything but be courteous and patient on this. The one thing that we do need to push on is basic facts. Nothing more or less. If those in charge in the UK are unable to deliver its their fault for any consequences that come of it. They were warned. They were told this could happen. So until then all that has to be done is to wait while pushing nicely for the most basic thing needed: facts.

Enzokk

The spin has started already. Kwasi Kwarteng was trying to sell regulatory equivalence not as harmonization on Newsnight. He is a Brexit supporter as well so you can clearly see the word is spreading to MP's to start the talks about how equivalence is exactly what people wanted.

I think they will have problems selling this to the Leave voters though. This is not because of those voters unrealistic expectations, but because of the words used by those currently trying to sell the fudge to the people. You reap what you sow and the seeds of a hard Brexit has been planted. I think it will be great if a good deal is made between the EU and the UK, but I still see trouble ahead for the UK in getting a deal. This is because of the message they have sold the public since triggering article 50.

holyhead

I would worry for NI. I don't think Foster has quite woken up to the fact that she is First Minister up there and not merely leader of the DUP. I would hate to see a return to border checkpoints but as its going it's hard not to see them returning. On so many levels that would be a disaster for both sides on the island. I sometimes wonder does it bother Foster et al that the border is only on maps in the physical sense. Would Unionists feel more a part of the U.K. with proof of an actual border as signalled by a return to checkpoints/border crossings manned.
I can't decide whether English people didn't think about the potential for border issues with Ireland on voting in favour of Brexit or whether they simply don't care. We are where we are and how it resolves itself is going to be interesting.

Itssoeasy

listermint wrote: »

Does anyone know who the Irish woman is on spotlight ni? Never seen her before in the political sphere

What's her name ?

listermint

Itssoeasy wrote: »

What's her name ?

That was my question. No idea she has some scathing comments for the Irish government

FrancieBrady

Ruth Dudley Edwards

murphaph

holyhead wrote: »

I would worry for NI. I don't think Foster has quite woken up to the fact that she is First Minister up there and not merely leader of the DUP. I would hate to see a return to border checkpoints but as its going it's hard not to see them returning. On so many levels that would be a disaster for both sides on the island. I sometimes wonder does it bother Foster et al that the border is only on maps in the physical sense. Would Unionists feel more a part of the U.K. with proof of an actual border as signalled by a return to checkpoints/border crossings manned.
I can't decide whether English people didn't think about the potential for border issues with Ireland on voting in favour of Brexit or whether they simply don't care. We are where we are and how it resolves itself is going to be interesting.

Just on a point of order...Foster is not first minister. There is none currently as there is no assembly.

holyhead

murphaph wrote: »

Justin a point of order...Foster is not first minister. There is none currently as there is no assembly.

Once it gets up and running again though she will be. But at present you are correct.

Berserker

holyhead wrote: »

I would worry for NI. I don't think Foster has quite woken up to the fact that she is First Minister up there and not merely leader of the DUP.

The assembly is non-existent. The First Minister title means bugger all at the moment.

holyhead wrote: »

I would hate to see a return to border checkpoints but as its going it's hard not to see them returning. On so many levels that would be a disaster for both sides on the island. I sometimes wonder does it bother Foster et al that the border is only on maps in the physical sense. Would Unionists feel more a part of the U.K. with proof of an actual border as signalled by a return to checkpoints/border crossings manned.

Firstly, a hard border was always going to be end game with this. The EU don't really give a hoot about the RoI, we've seen this with Nice, Lisbon and the banking crisis, these talks are all about causing the UK as much grief as possible for leaving the EU and if this causes the RoI grief, so be it. Unionists don't want a hard border, they want to be part of the UK and they are. Oh, a hard border should be a financial cost and nothing more to the RoI, hardly a disaster. Finally, the is a border between the UK and the EU. People seem to want to ignore that. If it is not in place, the RoI will become the new Calais.

FrancieBrady

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Quelle surprise ...

Not hard to see why she is Ireland's most prominent partitioning.

devnull

Some interesting stuff on her on Wikipedia, certainly doesn't seem to be a great lover of our country although she writes for the Sunday Independent.

She doesn't like The Wind That Shakes the Barley either.

Itssoeasy

holyhead wrote: »

murphaph wrote: »

Justin a point of order...Foster is not first minister. There is none currently as there is no assembly.

Once it gets up and running again though she will be. But at present you are correct.

"Once it gets up and running" that makes it sound like there is a hope of it being back up soon. I've seen nothing to suggest either side in the north are trying to get it moving. The DUP are more concerned with them being king makers in London.

Infini

holyhead wrote: »

Once it gets up and running again though she will be. But at present you are correct.

Just so to be aware that the whole Brexit thing and the Ash for Cash scheme damaged them badly. The DUP only have ONE seat more than Sinn Fein. A banjoed brexit brought to the North by THEIR incompetency could easily see them dropped down to the 2nd largest party next time meaning they get "demoted" to DEPUTY First minister. The irony would not be lost at all.

listermint

lawred2 wrote: »

She's the most UnIrish Irish person to walk this Earth

Was perplexed by her view points and strong south Irish accent.

I see now having read her own wiki why.